188 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

The Sapien wrote...
I know, it's just a game.

Actually, we are built by other species. We're a lot like Reapers. You just forget because the ones who built you are too small to see. What are you made of? Trillions of tiny organisms within communities of tisssues and networks, like nano bots but we call cells and bacteria, all within a portable atmosphere of water able to leave the ocean. "You" were created late in the story of evolution, as an IA, to oversee the entire operation of your "ship". So in a sense, we already are human reapers.

Ugh I do not want a religious debate. Humans were not created on purpose. Reapers were.

Let me just say this Humans are not a lot like the Reapers. Shepard kind of is the closest thing to a Human Reaper because he WAS built on purpose to fulfill a certain function, and to perform that function he was built a certain way, but the average human? No. But we're not gonna agree so I'll agree to disagree before we go in the circle jerk.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2011 - 12:22 .

[someone else]

BlueAlchemy wrote...

someone else wrote...

Seems to me some clarification of term is in order, as some (not all the posters are mixing apples and bananas.)  A "McGuffin" is a plot device that functions to move the protagonists and the action along in a story - it may nor may not be related to plot resolution - hitchcock coined the term to make that point explicitly. "Deus ex Machina" is a device or phenomenon whose sole purpose is to provide miraculous salvation to an otherwise hopeless cause - the archetype being divine intervention itself - the bible of full of these - and the Second Coming would indeed resolve the reaper threat quite handily....

Sweet Moses... are you saying... JESUS CHRIST is the mysterious Colllector's Edition squadmate for ME3!

...would settle the DEM debate anyway - LOL - would almost be worth it to witness the thermonuclear detonation among the faithful - nah, not being blasphemous, realize this is serious stuff to some - just making a point.

...and agree with the observation that indeed we are already composite beings - have my own ideas on reaper origins but reluctant to hijack thread into heavily over-trafficked territory...
 

[Arkitekt]

That's easy and quick: Reapers are the ultimate rapture of the geeks machine, the nerds call it "the Singularity". Harby's words point to this truth.

ME3 may ruin my theory, but what the hell.

[The Sapien]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Sapien wrote...
I know, it's just a game.

Actually, we are built by other species. We're a lot like Reapers. You just forget because the ones who built you are too small to see. What are you made of? Trillions of tiny organisms within communities of tisssues and networks, like nano bots but we call cells and bacteria, all within a portable atmosphere of water able to leave the ocean. "You" were created late in the story of evolution, as an IA, to oversee the entire operation of your "ship". So in a sense, we already are human reapers.

Ugh I do not want a religious debate. Humans were not created on purpose. Reapers were.

Let me just say this Humans are not a lot like the Reapers. Shepard kind of is the closest thing to a Human Reaper because he WAS built on purpose to fulfill a certain function, and to perform that function he was built a certain way, but the average human? No. But we're not gonna agree so I'll agree to disagree before we go in the circle jerk.

I'm an atheist, so let's keep religion out of this.

Consider this: No one person can think up and design an AI. It takes many humans over many generations for that kind of technology to EVOLVE. Thus, AI's evolve into being no different than us.

I take it you don't have a strong scientific background, thus don't get what I'm saying.

[The Sapien]

Singularity? Reapers? That would be really kewl if they were superbeings compared to us. Shepard seems to think they're smarter, but how much so? I have my doubts being that they don't seem that complex or to even function on a different timescale, as if they aren't so different than us, just really big. But that could be all wrong. I hope so.

Modifié par The Sapien, 18 novembre 2011 - 12:43 .

[Ryzaki]

The Sapien wrote...

I'm an atheist, so let's keep religion out of this.

Consider this: No one person can think up and design an AI. It takes many humans over many generations for that kind of technology to EVOLVE. Thus, AI's evolve into being no different than us.

I take it you don't have a strong scientific background, thus don't get what I'm saying.

And no I don't have a strong scientific background which is exactly why I'm backing out of it. Going by the logic you're using nearly every species on earth is a reaper.

Plenty of things required more than one person to think and design. AI isn't special in that regard.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2011 - 12:43 .

[BlueAlchemy]

I honestly didn't really think your post was going in a religious direction? Interesting that some would have taken it that way though? Quick to jump the gun? Perhaps. In any case, I do believe your theory to have some meat. The similarities are quite thought provoking and I can definitely see an AI becoming as complex as a human being. With time of course. So well played sir. 

In regard to my Jesus Christ as a squadmate comment... I've just been miraculously inspired to play through ME 1 and 2 with a Jesus Shepard. If only I could get the long hair... 

Modifié par BlueAlchemy, 18 novembre 2011 - 12:58 .

[BlueAlchemy]

Double post!

Modifié par BlueAlchemy, 18 novembre 2011 - 12:56 .

[GMagnum]

dunkin donuts

[The Sapien]

Ryzaki wrote...

And no I don't have a strong scientific background which is exactly why I'm backing out of it. Going by the logic you're using nearly every species on earth is a reaper.

Plenty of things required more than one person to think and design. AI isn't special in that regard.

Okay, I'll stop. I'll even just answer your implied questions with a yes, agreed to the first, and another, yes, agreed to the second.

[someone else]

Being composed of discrete living units (cells) and organelles - mitochondria, etc does not equate to being a "reaper" - no argument at all on that point. Whether awareness is evolved or is instilled into being as some version of "soul" is the great divide and not at all a discussion appropriate for the present thread - or forum - or 2012 presidental debates.

[The Sapien]

BlueAlchemy wrote...

I honestly didn't really think your post was going in a religious direction? Interesting that some would have taken it that way though? Quick to jump the gun? Perhaps. In any case, I do believe your theory to have some meat. The similarities are quite thought provoking and I can definitely see an AI becoming as complex as a human being. With time of course. So well played sir. 

In regard to my Jesus Christ as a squadmate comment... I've just been miraculously inspired to play through ME 1 and 2 with a Jesus Shepard. If only I could get the long hair... 

Funny, I was kind of thinking after your Jesus comment that Shep did die and come back... But then the similiarities sort of ended there, oh, wait, unless his father was a Prothean or maybe a Reaper?

[Ryzaki]

You can't make a Jesus looking Shep if you wanted too. Shep's beard options suck =/

@someone else:  @ presidential debates bit

I really just want some long hair for my Shepard.

And a Deus Ex Machina would make him so happy. He would't have to risk his neck fighting crazy robots that want his body.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2011 - 12:57 .

[The Sapien]

someone else wrote...

Being composed of discrete living units (cells) and organelles - mitochondria, etc does not equate to being a "reaper" - no argument at all on that point. Whether awareness is evolved or is instilled into being as some version of "soul" is the great divide and not at all a discussion appropriate for the present thread - or forum - or 2012 presidental debates.

Yeah, you can't be a dualist and agree with me.
Also, I didn't equate humans to reapers. There are important distinctions and "equate" has a very precise meaning in my vocabulary.

[BlueAlchemy]

Okay well if we can't have Jesus we should at least be able to make a Big Lebowski Shepard with corresponding dialogue choices.

"I will not tolerate outbursts on my ship, man! Like, get a hold of yourself!"

[Ryzaki]

...wait do the Reapers still want Shep's body or do they just want him dead at this point? I forget.

[BlueAlchemy]

Well, at first I think they wanted to indoctrinate him. Break his will and all that jazz. Basically so they could have another super soldier like Saren. But since it's all out war time... I think they just want to kill him.

[onelifecrisis]

Ryzaki wrote...

...wait do the Reapers still want Shep's body or do they just want him dead at this point? I forget.

Harby wanted him captured (preferably) or dead ("if I must"). I think we can safely assume that Shepard will continue to force the "if I must" option.

[Ryzaki]

..So Harby's no longer after my Shep's body? I thought they had something special! Harby's gonna let Shep playing hard to get ruin their love.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2011 - 01:21 .

[someone else]

The Sapien wrote...

So in a sense, we already are human reapers.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, you can't be a dualist and agree with me.
Also, I didn't equate humans to reapers. There are important distinctions and "equate" has a very precise meaning in my vocabulary.

Well, maybe not "equate" -

I also think the analogy is limited - the reapers have apparently made the incorporation of other life forms a key to their evolution (not unlike the Asari, come to think of it) whereas humans have made only very limited and early (sub-cellular) incorporations, and except for the odd symbiotic relationship [primarily gut flora] have been shaped primarily by environmental factors and an adaptive genome.   Organic cells and organs are not repurposed McChicken sandwiches the way the Collectors are highly modded Protheans

Modifié par someone else, 18 novembre 2011 - 02:59 .

[someone else]

BlueAlchemy wrote...

In regard to my Jesus Christ as a squadmate comment... I've just been miraculously inspired to play through ME 1 and 2 with a Jesus Shepard. If only I could get the long hair... 

At last!    The Good Shepard...and the varren shall lie down with the thresher maws, and they shall beat their husks into keepers and no one shall learn Quasar any more...amen.

[The Sapien]

someone else wrote...

Well, maybe not "equate" -

I also think the analogy is limited - the reapers have apparently made the incorporation of other life forms a key to their evolution (not unlike the Asari, come to think of it) whereas humans have made only very limited and early (sub-cellular) incorporations, and except for the odd symbiotic relationship [primarily gut flora] have been shaped primarily by environmental factors and an adaptive genome.   Organic cells and organs are not repurposed McChicken sandwiches the way the Collectors are highly modded Protheans

I could play along with that, depending on if you go along with popular science of the day. Most have this odd way of saying most of our cells are distinct from single cell or simple organisms based on a common DNA that they all share, but to that's just a tautology. However, even recent pop science has shown that MOST of our DNA that was once label junk DNA (thought to be leftover from stuff not used anymore) is actually not junk and is viral. Yes, viruses that are like free floating RNA constantingly doing stuff we just didn't notice before because, well, they're too small to be seen with microscopes that use light and are very hard to study, let alone isolate. So, as always, pop science is always rewriting our story...

[someone else]

This quickly going merrily off topic, but this raises an intriguing possibility - as you know, somatic cells can be regressed (under proper conditions) to a an omipotent stem cell state, capable of regenerating an entirely new clone of the donor. In Evolution and Retribution, I believe the prospects for reversing the cybernetic reengineering was discussed and discardd - so BW I am sure will not be going down such a route to either rescue the protheans or remod the reapers.

However, to your point - once a cell has differentiated to the phenotype, it is in that state no longer independently viable. It is similar to any of us - with few exceptions - take the average suburban or urban dwelling modern human, take away trucked in food supplies, ready made clothing, electricity, any manufacturing processes beyond immediate physical labor, etc - and your imagination is I am sure sufficient for the rest.

As to the role of so-called "junk DNA"  I have never bought that from the first time it was proposed. Non coding
sections of the genome perform in various ways from simply separating exon sequences, to regulating gene expression, and coding microRNA - though I suppose there is some "junk" or archaic vestigal material as well.  Details, as well as the emerging role of microRNAs are well beyond my three mile limit.

Modifié par someone else, 18 novembre 2011 - 04:34 .

[The Sapien]

Yeah, that whole "junk DNA" seemed like one of those myths that just caught on for funny reasons. Like the "we only use 10% of our brains" myth.

I've seen recent research where even skin cells can be regressed and then triggered to become other types of tissue. Makes me wonder what work might be done to even use further regressed cells, so basic to be like generic cells, to then grow into nonhuman tissue or new types of tissue for humans. But yeah, once something progresses down a path and becomes "domesticated", it's difficult to shed those advantages and habits and links to the whole. Not impossible, but difficult. Some animals, like certain lizards, can actually do it when they regenerate after losing a limb. I wonder if they're using what we call "viruses" to trigger such events. Combine that with the really cool bacteria found in the cooling water for nuclear power plants, able to quickly repair their own DNA on the fly, and, wow, I just really want to learn those tricks myself.

Back on topic, so no chance of removing the Reaper component of the Reapers and devolving them into the extinct races they assimilated or just dumbing them down to be useful ships?

[someone else]

Karpyshyn didn't seem to want to go the rehab route. Skin cells have been regressed to at least pluripotent and I think omnipotent stem cell stage - as stated they have been successfully been taken back down the differentiation route through embryo stage - frog or chick - one has actually been hatched. Reaper nanides are maybe too difficult to remove - recall the problems Shiala was having with residual Thorian spores...