105 réponses à ce sujet

[FieryDove]

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Irminric was suffering from withdrawal. Temporary insanity can be  sympton of several different kinds of withdrawals. Permanent insanity is NOT a sympton of withdrawal. Once you get through the rough patch, you will be clear minded again.

Mate stop pulling things from your ass. That tibid of information is never given.

Alistair rattles off a list of withdrawl symptons. Since he was a templar in training I assumed he knew what he was talking about. Permanent insanity didn't make the list.

dafangirl wrote...

Oh I'm not calling Wynne uneducated, simply that the whole current system in place doesn't adequately educate mages.

I doubt the chantry wants the mages educated in any real terms. They want them controlled.

Modifié par FieryDove, 17 novembre 2011 - 11:18 .

[DKJaigen]

FieryDove wrote...

Alistair rattles off a list of withdrawl symptons. Since he was a templar in training I assumed he knew what he was talking about. Permanent insanity didn't make the list.

Timespan of a sickness is usally not in a symptons list. Simply put right now we dont know if its permanent or temporary

[HiroVoid]

The situation in the tower is simply a battle of wills. It's not so much about knowing what the spell is. That's why the Warden can get out of it no matter what their origin is.

Also, I believe I read somewhere a while back that demons can take control forcefully, but since I don't have a source, I can't back that up.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 17 novembre 2011 - 11:34 .

[Herr Uhl]

dafangirl wrote...

@Herr Uhl...well I didn't mean with pointy sticks. But healthy dueling, unlike what's presented in the Library might be beneficial.

How can you expect any real amount of spell testing or spell resistance without adequate thorough education? No wonder every mage on the top floor save Irving drops over. The Templars in Ferelden aren't too strict or too lenient they're simply just as the mages are uneducated and ill prepared.

That is where their mentality comes from though. Because the fittest literally survive.

And it might be a wee bit dangerous to let the new mages play with their powers against eachother as they can't control them. Which is what is taught down there.

Edit: Compare it to sparring with real weapons for amateurs. Accidents are prone to happen.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 17 novembre 2011 - 11:36 .

[Wulfram]

DKJaigen wrote...

I see here you wish to see a mage fail no matter how succesful she is.

I don't know why you think that.  I like Mages.  Some of my best friends are mages. 

It's a simple fact that despite knowing that it's the fade, she still fails to do anything useful with this information until the Warden turns up to rescue her.

[Herr Uhl]

Wulfram wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

I see here you wish to see a mage fail no matter how succesful she is.

I don't know why you think that.  I like Mages.  Some of my best friends are mages. 

It's a simple fact that despite knowing that it's the fade, she still fails to do anything useful with this information until the Warden turns up to rescue her.

She is slightly less successfull than Niall, that had the oh so inadequate Circle training only.

[AlexXIV]

HiroVoid wrote...

The situation in the tower is simply a battle of wills. It's not so much about knowing what the spell is. That's why the Warden can get out of it no matter what their origin is.

Also, I believe I read somewhere a while back that demons can take control forcefully, but since I don't have a source, I can't back that up.

Well and main characters are always special, especially in Bioware games. So it's fact that one of the most powerful magic users in DA:O couldn't break free while the Warden freed them all. Kinda surprises me that nobody even mentions it afterwards. I mean in dialogues like it was after the Fade in DA2. Good thing this is brought up since this is certianly something that was done better in DA2. If you do something ´impossible' then people at least have questions about it.

That said I don't think the Fade sequence is a fair judgement of companion's willpower. It was more of a gameplay decision that actually portraying their inability to remember where they were 5 minutes ago. I mean I wouldn't even know that visiting the Fade results in memory loss.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 18 novembre 2011 - 01:32 .

[AlexXIV]

dafangirl wrote...

Okay, I yield. Let's agree with the OP's point, the templars are to blame for being too strict. Oh, the repression, the angst, where's the nearest demon, let's join an unknown blood mage inner circle group with Uldred and wreak absolute havoc so we can support Loghain and be free from the Chantry.

"That's a great idea, I'm in"...(anonymous Blood Mage) *Niall runs to get the Litany*.

They are at fault, and so is the Chantry. Because they do it wrong. Not saying that I know enough details to pass judgement, but one thing is pretty clear. They 'guard' mages for many centuries and all they managed to create enough hate to throw all of the world into chaos, which I bet wasn't the purpose of it to begin with. So on the large scale they failed terribly.

[WhiteKnyght]

maxernst wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Mages aren't at as much risk as the Templars make you think.

If you play a Circle Mage Origin or a Mage Hawke, how often do you have demons whispering in your ear and haunting your dreams? Even when you use blood magic, nothing happens to you.

All the mages turned abominations I've seen have been willing participants. Not taken against their will like the Templars propaganda says.

And Tevinter is an empire full of blood mages. But it's been standing for thousands of years. The place might be violent and cutthroat, but that's not because of magic. That's just their culture. The same way Orlesians are obsessed with fanciness, Antivans are obsessed with assassins, and Fereldans are big dog lovers.

The vast majority of mages are in Circles in Tevinter, and that was true even in the old Imperium.  The magisters are powerful, and experienced, and, as a result, rarely become abominations.  As for "all the mages" being willing participants, the only ones we actually know that of are Connor and Marethari.  We don't know for sure with Uldred.  We do know that Merrill believes it to be a risk, which is why she brings Hawke along with her--do you think Merrill thinks that because of the Templars?  We see mages become abominations when their lives are threatened, whether it's willing or not, it's difficult to say.  It doesn't matter whether they're willing or not, if they're not, it just means that many mages ARE willing to become abominations. 

Bioware hasn't bothered to create all kinds of additional content for mages that aren't accessible to other characters, but its noteworthy that no mage in the game ever says that meeting up with demons and other spirits in the fade is some freakishly rare thing.  If that were propaganda, don't you think some of the anti-Templar mages you meet would say so?  You also can chug lyrium potions at will without ever experiencing addiction, and use blood magic in public without the Templars lifting a finger.  Do you also conclude that lyrium addiction doesn't exist and Templars don't really mind maleficarum running around?

That's another thing. Mages are over generalized. Through out Origins, Awakening, and DAII you see what, about 100-130 blood mages and abominations? Throughout Thedas there are likely over a million mages divided up through the Circles. So that's not really that big of a number. It's hardly 'many'.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Circles houses more than a hundred, and less than a thousand mages each. There are 14 Circles in Thedas I believe. That gives you around 12.000 mages. Add to those the odd apostates and I wager the number rises toaround 14.000 mages in all of Thedas. Hardly the "millions" you claim.

[Conway044]

Wulfram wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There were blood mages and conspirators both within the Circle, if Orsino had done his job and allowed the search, the whole situation would've been difused long before it culminated in war. But of course that would have cost his own life, and he was too much of a coward to ever lay down his own life for his fellows. Too bad really.

Orsino's job is to stand up for his mages.  Even Meredith acknowledges this at one point IIRC.

And if Meredith had been allowed to search, then she'd have just used any evidence that she found as an excuse to annull the circle - and if she still didn't find any majorly incriminating evidence, she'd have seen that as evidence that things were being hidden and annulled the circle.

Not that it would have made any difference at all, since Anders would still blow up the Chantry.

And of course none of that would in any case stop the tower from being full of innocent mages.

Meredith can not annull the circle. 

The only reason she is able to enact the Rite of Annullment in the game is because Ander's blows up the Grand Cleric along with a good chunk of Kirkwall.  Only a Grand Cleric can issue the Rite, Ander's kills the Grand Cleric because he wants the Rite to be issued and knows that the Grand Cleric will not allow it.  By killing her he open's the door for Meredith to enact the Rite and forces all the Circle mages to choose either to die or resist and in so doing join his crusade.

[Realmzmaster]

A million mages in the Circles? I seriously doubt there is information within the game to back up that number. No information is even given on the population of the world of Thedas. No census information is presented so any numbers are guesses.

[Gervaise]

One of the codexes says that mages vary greatly in ability. Some could probably quite safely be left in the community since they can't do much harm on their own and they probably wouldn't even be that attractive to demons. The problems would seem to be those who have ability coupled with ambition or those of an emotional disposition. The former are potentially the most dangerous since they attract the most dangerous demons and in any case are likely to experiment with more extreme forms of magic. The latter are at greater risk of possession since emotion seems to act like a magnet to demons. The stronger will always dominate the weak as this is true of mages as much as anyone else. This is what occurred in the Ferelden Circle with Uldred. Lack of training and education was not responsible, lack of political and social awareness may well have been, so senior enchanters did not spot the danger until it was too late. Judging by the scene at the end of the Circle quest, the reason so many mages became abominations is that they were tortured into submission, not by templars but by other mages.

Even in Tevinter mages are regulated and placed in Circles for training or with a senior mage as their apprentice. Mages live with their families because they are old established magical families that are comfortable with magic and probably know how to deal with any problems that arise. Currently in the rest of Thedas this is not the case. Some fortunate mages are born into a family with a magical parent (like the Hawke siblings and Morrigan) where they can be guided and prepared against the dangers. Most are not that fortunate and are either feared by their family and rejected or are hidden and denied proper advice and training. The Circle system is flawed and was long overdue for a shake up but the total collapse of the system will benefit no one, least of all the young mages now isolated in a hostile environment.

It never seemed feasible that the entire Circle system broke down simply because of the action of Anders. However, he was well aware of the Resolutionist movement and therefore his action was not taken in isolation but part of a Thedas wide series of events, planned to culminate in Kirkwall so that everyone would take note of the outcome. Even so, we know that not all fraternities in the Circles were in favour of greater freedom, and there was not universal hatred of the Circle System among the mages, so there had to be something more involved in addition to the events we know about. Logic suggests that the upcoming book will throw some light on this.

[maxernst]

Realmzmaster wrote...

A million mages in the Circles? I seriously doubt there is information within the game to back up that number. No information is even given on the population of the world of Thedas. No census information is presented so any numbers are guesses.

Any numbers are guesses but we do know how many Circles there are, so unless 99% of mages are apostates, or the Gallows and the Circle Tower hold tens of thousands of mages, that sounds like a wild overestimate.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The codex entry for one of the mage armor sets (Spiral Eye I think) says there is "Hundreds of mages in the gallows." Which probably means anywhere from 100 to 999.

[WhiteKnyght]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


The Circles houses more than a hundred, and less than a thousand mages each. There are 14 Circles in Thedas I believe. That gives you around 12.000 mages. Add to those the odd apostates and I wager the number rises toaround 14.000 mages in all of Thedas. Hardly the "millions" you claim.

I said "over a million", Not "miillions". Learn how to read.

Also, you're wrong. You haven't included the Tevinter Circles, which aren't normally counted among the 14 Circles controlled by the Orlesian Chantry.

Tevinter is a large country that is rich in magic. And even Fenris admits that not all mages there use blood magic. It's mostly the Magisters, and the non-blood mages are treated poorly there.

Also don't forget to included mages from past generations/ages. The Cirlce of Magi is over a thousand years old after all. So 12,000 mages times an average lifepspan of 60 years throughout 1000 years.

So my guess isn't too wild.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 19 novembre 2011 - 01:54 .

[Realmzmaster]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


The Circles houses more than a hundred, and less than a thousand mages each. There are 14 Circles in Thedas I believe. That gives you around 12.000 mages. Add to those the odd apostates and I wager the number rises toaround 14.000 mages in all of Thedas. Hardly the "millions" you claim.

I said "over a million", Not "miillions". Learn how to read.

Also, you're wrong. You haven't included the Tevinter Circles, which aren't normally counted among the 14 Circles controlled by the Orlesian Chantry.

Tevinter is a large country that is rich in magic. And even Fenris admits that not all mages there use blood magic. It's mostly the Magisters, and the non-blood mages are treated poorly there.

Also don't forget to included mages from past generations/ages. The Cirlce of Magi is over a thousand years old after all. So 12,000 mages times an average lifepspan of 60 years throughout 1000 years.

So my guess isn't too wild.

You do not mention thoughout the life of the Circle in your over a million post. You state over a million in Thedas. Also why would the Tevinter mages and magisters be included in that number? Tevinter has its own Chantry and Divine.
Unless mass numbers of mages are defecting to Tevinter.and do the Tevinter mages want the added
competition? If non-blood mages are treated so badly in Tevinter how would it be any better. You go from one oppressive system to another unless you battle it out for power and survival as the Crows do for a position?

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 19 novembre 2011 - 02:36 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


The Circles houses more than a hundred, and less than a thousand mages each. There are 14 Circles in Thedas I believe. That gives you around 12.000 mages. Add to those the odd apostates and I wager the number rises toaround 14.000 mages in all of Thedas. Hardly the "millions" you claim.

I said "over a million", Not "miillions". Learn how to read.

Also, you're wrong. You haven't included the Tevinter Circles, which aren't normally counted among the 14 Circles controlled by the Orlesian Chantry.

Tevinter is a large country that is rich in magic. And even Fenris admits that not all mages there use blood magic. It's mostly the Magisters, and the non-blood mages are treated poorly there.

Also don't forget to included mages from past generations/ages. The Cirlce of Magi is over a thousand years old after all. So 12,000 mages times an average lifepspan of 60 years throughout 1000 years.

So my guess isn't too wild.

You do not mention thoughout the life of the Circle in your over a million post. You state over a million in Thedas. Also why would the Tevinter mages and magisters be included in that number? Tevinter has its own Chantry and Divine.
Unless mass numbers of mages are defecting to Tevinter.and do the Tevinter mages want the added
competition? If non-blood mages are treated so badly in Tevinter how would it be any better. You go from one oppressive system to another unless you battle it out for power and survival as the Crows do for a position?

But I did say "throughout Thedas". Tevinter is part of Thedas too. They could have a Circle in every city.

Mages from the Circles in other countries can be sent to Tevinter for special training. Take Feynriel for example. Orsino gets permission for him and that's the frickin Gallows we're talking about.  And Wynne was also allowed to go to Minrathous given the right ending in Origins.

Also you can expect every person in Ferelden, Orlais, Antiva, Nevarra, etc to know what Fenris only knows from personal experience. They could flee to Tevinter expecting freedom but end up enslaved. Like Thrask's daughter and Feynriel almost did when they went to Reiner.

And there is also the possibility Fenris isn't completely right. He suffered a mind wipe and is only experiences in Tevinter since then were with Danarius. Who is an S.O.B in his own right. Fenris could be assuming a lot based on what he heard/saw him doing.

[SkittlesKat96]

The Grey Nayr wrote...
Also don't forget to included mages from past generations/ages. The Cirlce of Magi is over a thousand years old after all. So 12,000 mages times an average lifepspan of 60 years throughout 1000 years.

So my guess isn't too wild.

...What?

Where the hell did you say in your previous post about past generations and ages of Mages?

O.o that was definitely notwhat you were including/talking about

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 19 novembre 2011 - 03:12 .

[Realmzmaster]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


The Circles houses more than a hundred, and less than a thousand mages each. There are 14 Circles in Thedas I believe. That gives you around 12.000 mages. Add to those the odd apostates and I wager the number rises toaround 14.000 mages in all of Thedas. Hardly the "millions" you claim.

I said "over a million", Not "miillions". Learn how to read.

Also, you're wrong. You haven't included the Tevinter Circles, which aren't normally counted among the 14 Circles controlled by the Orlesian Chantry.

Tevinter is a large country that is rich in magic. And even Fenris admits that not all mages there use blood magic. It's mostly the Magisters, and the non-blood mages are treated poorly there.

Also don't forget to included mages from past generations/ages. The Cirlce of Magi is over a thousand years old after all. So 12,000 mages times an average lifepspan of 60 years throughout 1000 years.

So my guess isn't too wild.

You do not mention thoughout the life of the Circle in your over a million post. You state over a million in Thedas. Also why would the Tevinter mages and magisters be included in that number? Tevinter has its own Chantry and Divine.
Unless mass numbers of mages are defecting to Tevinter.and do the Tevinter mages want the added
competition? If non-blood mages are treated so badly in Tevinter how would it be any better. You go from one oppressive system to another unless you battle it out for power and survival as the Crows do for a position?

But I did say "throughout Thedas". Tevinter is part of Thedas too. They could have a Circle in every city.

Mages from the Circles in other countries can be sent to Tevinter for special training. Take Feynriel for example. Orsino gets permission for him and that's the frickin Gallows we're talking about.  And Wynne was also allowed to go to Minrathous given the right ending in Origins.

Also you can expect every person in Ferelden, Orlais, Antiva, Nevarra, etc to know what Fenris only knows from personal experience. They could flee to Tevinter expecting freedom but end up enslaved. Like Thrask's daughter and Feynriel almost did when they went to Reiner.

And there is also the possibility Fenris isn't completely right. He suffered a mind wipe and is only experiences in Tevinter since then were with Danarius. Who is an S.O.B in his own right. Fenris could be assuming a lot based on what he heard/saw him doing.

Thoughout Thedas and thoughout time are two different things.  Nothing is known about Tevinter outside of what is given in the games and their codexs. No one has any idea if there is a Circle in every city or only one. The game gives hints to some of the happenings in Tevinter. You mention Feynriel who goes to Tevinter but communicates by letter with Hawke.

Feynriel says Men and women work magic in the streets while their slaves look on. I watched my own master kill a rival
magister in a duel just days ago. Sometimes I look around and think I
understand the templars back in Kirkwall.


So it is not just Fenris but others in the game give tidbits about life in Tevinter.

[WhiteKnyght]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


The Circles houses more than a hundred, and less than a thousand mages each. There are 14 Circles in Thedas I believe. That gives you around 12.000 mages. Add to those the odd apostates and I wager the number rises toaround 14.000 mages in all of Thedas. Hardly the "millions" you claim.

I said "over a million", Not "miillions". Learn how to read.

Also, you're wrong. You haven't included the Tevinter Circles, which aren't normally counted among the 14 Circles controlled by the Orlesian Chantry.

Tevinter is a large country that is rich in magic. And even Fenris admits that not all mages there use blood magic. It's mostly the Magisters, and the non-blood mages are treated poorly there.

Also don't forget to included mages from past generations/ages. The Cirlce of Magi is over a thousand years old after all. So 12,000 mages times an average lifepspan of 60 years throughout 1000 years.

So my guess isn't too wild.

You do not mention thoughout the life of the Circle in your over a million post. You state over a million in Thedas. Also why would the Tevinter mages and magisters be included in that number? Tevinter has its own Chantry and Divine.
Unless mass numbers of mages are defecting to Tevinter.and do the Tevinter mages want the added
competition? If non-blood mages are treated so badly in Tevinter how would it be any better. You go from one oppressive system to another unless you battle it out for power and survival as the Crows do for a position?

But I did say "throughout Thedas". Tevinter is part of Thedas too. They could have a Circle in every city.

Mages from the Circles in other countries can be sent to Tevinter for special training. Take Feynriel for example. Orsino gets permission for him and that's the frickin Gallows we're talking about.  And Wynne was also allowed to go to Minrathous given the right ending in Origins.

Also you can expect every person in Ferelden, Orlais, Antiva, Nevarra, etc to know what Fenris only knows from personal experience. They could flee to Tevinter expecting freedom but end up enslaved. Like Thrask's daughter and Feynriel almost did when they went to Reiner.

And there is also the possibility Fenris isn't completely right. He suffered a mind wipe and is only experiences in Tevinter since then were with Danarius. Who is an S.O.B in his own right. Fenris could be assuming a lot based on what he heard/saw him doing.

Thoughout Thedas and thoughout time are two different things.  Nothing is known about Tevinter outside of what is given in the games and their codexs. No one has any idea if there is a Circle in every city or only one. The game gives hints to some of the happenings in Tevinter. You mention Feynriel who goes to Tevinter but communicates by letter with Hawke.

Feynriel says Men and women work magic in the streets while their slaves look on. I watched my own master kill a rival
magister in a duel just days ago. Sometimes I look around and think I
understand the templars back in Kirkwall.


So it is not just Fenris but others in the game give tidbits about life in Tevinter.

I'm well aware of Feynriel's letter. But Tevinter is a nation with it's own customs. Plus it's not like other nations don't have duels that are to the death, among worse things. Like how Orlesian Chevaliers can do whatever they please to lesser citizens, including rape and murder. And how  Antiva's government is wrapped around an assassin guild.

The Mages are singled out because of supersticion and fear. When arguably worse atrocities are committed every day by people who get a free pass by the Chantry.

Example: Someone could rape and murder a woman in broad daylight, while another person is seen shooting fire out of his nose to heat up his tea. But who would the Templars go after? It would be the mage just because "Magic exists to serve man" and the other guy would get away to commit his crimes again.

Also back on Feynriel. He doesn't seem to be hating Tevinter when he uses what he's been taught to pick up women in their dreams.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 19 novembre 2011 - 04:14 .

[maxernst]

Oh, please. If there were hundreds of thousands of mages in Tevinter, they could crush the Qunari like a bug. Their mages alone would outnumber the armies of all the other countries in Thedas combined.

[TEWR]

Example: Someone could rape and murder a woman in broad daylight, while another person is seen shooting fire out of his nose to heat up his tea. But who would the Templars go after? It would be the mage just because "Magic exists to serve man" and the other guy would get away to commit his crimes again.

It wouldn't fall to the Templars though. It would fall to the city guard or the regular soldiers.

Which isn't to say that Templars shouldn't help keep the citizens safe. They should. That's what Aveline wanted to do in Act 2 I believe. She asked the Templars to send a few of their men over to her and answer to her in order to help protect the city, but they refused.

Also back on Feynriel. He doesn't seem to be hating Tevinter when he uses what he's been taught to pick up women in their dreams.

He's not a blood mage because of that. She's just some crazy broad who fell in love with Feynriel immediately after she saw his spiritual self in the Fade.

If he wanted to mind control her to fall in love with him and be with him, he would've told her where he was. That's something she didn't know.

Also, had she been mind-controlled, it would've been evident considering when Hawke is mind-controlled it obviously sounds forced.

See here for this discussion on Feynriel:

http://social.biowar...02818/5#8716000

[WhiteKnyght]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Example: Someone could rape and murder a woman in broad daylight, while another person is seen shooting fire out of his nose to heat up his tea. But who would the Templars go after? It would be the mage just because "Magic exists to serve man" and the other guy would get away to commit his crimes again.

It wouldn't fall to the Templars though. It would fall to the city guard or the regular soldiers.

Which isn't to say that Templars shouldn't help keep the citizens safe. They should. That's what Aveline wanted to do in Act 2 I believe. She asked the Templars to send a few of their men over to her and answer to her in order to help protect the city, but they refused.

Also back on Feynriel. He doesn't seem to be hating Tevinter when he uses what he's been taught to pick up women in their dreams.

He's not a blood mage because of that. She's just some crazy broad who fell in love with Feynriel immediately after she saw his spiritual self in the Fade.

If he wanted to mind control her to fall in love with him and be with him, he would've told her where he was. That's something she didn't know.

Also, had she been mind-controlled, it would've been evident considering when Hawke is mind-controlled it obviously sounds forced.

See here for this discussion on Feynriel:

http://social.biowar...02818/5#8716000

I didn't say Feynriel was a blood mage. But the Tevinters were teaching him to control his Somniari powers and before that he was so scared of the demons that he was willing to be tranquilized. For all his 'understanding' he owes them.

Also a lot of hate on mages is from assuming the Chantry is even right about blood magic. The chantry and Anders do a lot of double talk when it comes to the subject and there are other claims on it's source.

The Chantry says it comes from demons yet it was the old gods who first taught it to humanity.

And Anders says to use blood magic you must "look a demon in the eye and accept his deal", but when he talks with Merrill he asks her to tell him that she first used blood magic by accidentally cutting herself without realizing the power and not just turn to a demon immediately.

And the Dalish claim the Arlathan elves had the power before anybody. And the Qunari think all magic comes from demons.

[Realmzmaster]

Also back on Feynriel. He doesn't seem to be hating Tevinter when he uses what he's been taught to pick up women in their dreams.

What? Feynriel does not pick up women in their dreams. You are referring to the quest Who needs rescuing? Feynriel saves her from her kidnappers. When she awakes from her dreams all the kidnappers guarding her are dead. Feynriel used his power of entering dreams to protect her by getting the kidnappers to kill each other. The woman sees Feynriel in her dream while he is in the Fade and falls in love with him. She has no idea where he is.