This thread is started in regards to some of the backlash that Bioware has recieved when it came to a character they liked. More specifically, the VS. I didn't read any spoilers.. But I did have Lots spoiled for me. I am aware of some of the main plot points and character situations.
In ME2 we had Liara, VS, and Wrex unable to make their way to the normandy. For obvious reasons.. However..
Wrex is understandable.. But we still get a heart warming reception on Tuchanka and we are able to have a nice conversation with him about his plans for the Krogan. Liara, we get a DLC and even the chance to romance her again.. With the VS, we get a railroaded 2 minute cameo.... And I like how we can convince an indoctrinated spectre ( Saren ) to kill himself. We can gain someones loyalty ( Tali ) By lying and yelling at her admiralty board.. We can talk a squadmmate ( Garrus ) into not killing someone. But we cant convince the VS that we had good intentions working with Cerberus...
Then there is the strong hypocrisy among the fans when it comes to these characters... for example...
Ashley Williams: " I have a concern about the aliens "
The majority: RACIST!!! XENOPHOBE!!!! RACIST B****
Tali is very close minded about the Geth but noone ever ridicules her for that.
Ash gives a few hints throughout the game that shows she believes in god.
The majority: RELIGIOUS ZEALOT!! HYPOCRITE!!
I dont think we can even call her relgious. She states she believes in god. But I dont recall her reading the bible or praying or saying anything really extreme... I feel the religious part about her is a bit exaggerated
In ME2 we get a religious assassin who tries to tell you he's not responsible for the people he killed. He prays for himself after killing his targets.. Even though he says he feels nothing and isnt responisble for the people he kills. " A hired gun " is what he considers himself.
The majority: KAIDAN IS BORING!!! KAIDAN IS A WHINER!!
How is he a whiner? Can somebody show me at least one scene where he seemed to be whiner?? He's boring because he comes across as subtle with hidden strength and not all in your face renegade like
Wrex/Grunt/Garrus/Jack
Sometimes I wonder if these people even bothereed talking to Ash/Kaidan just to get their perspective rather than just dismissing them as these things.
I was told about what happens with them in ME3.. And it seems like we are once again gonna get put into "Forced Friendship" with characters like Tali, Garrus, Thane, etc.. While the VS is made to look... you know.. Bad
I am aware that things can change. I just hope these characters are done some justice after being railroaded in ME2
I hope Bioware does Ash/Kaidan justice in Mass Effect 3.
Débuté par
Guest_SAGEHONOR_*
, nov. 16 2011 03:17
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#2
Guest_D3MON-SOVER3IGN_*
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 03:29
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SAGEHONOR wrote...
This thread is started in regards to some of the backlash that Bioware has recieved when it came to a character they liked. More specifically, the VS. I didn't read any spoilers.. But I did have Lots spoiled for me. I am aware of some of the main plot points and character situations.
In ME2 we had Liara, VS, and Wrex unable to make their way to the normandy. For obvious reasons.. However..
Wrex is understandable.. But we still get a heart warming reception on Tuchanka and we are able to have a nice conversation with him about his plans for the Krogan. Liara, we get a DLC and even the chance to romance her again.. With the VS, we get a railroaded 2 minute cameo.... And I like how we can convince an indoctrinated spectre ( Saren ) to kill himself. We can gain someones loyalty ( Tali ) By lying and yelling at her admiralty board.. We can talk a squadmmate ( Garrus ) into not killing someone. But we cant convince the VS that we had good intentions working with Cerberus...
Then there is the strong hypocrisy among the fans when it comes to these characters... for example...
Ashley Williams: " I have a concern about the aliens "
The majority: RACIST!!! XENOPHOBE!!!! RACIST B****
Tali is very close minded about the Geth but noone ever ridicules her for that.
Ash gives a few hints throughout the game that shows she believes in god.
The majority: RELIGIOUS ZEALOT!! HYPOCRITE!!
I dont think we can even call her relgious. She states she believes in god. But I dont recall her reading the bible or praying or saying anything really extreme... I feel the religious part about her is a bit exaggerated
In ME2 we get a religious assassin who tries to tell you he's not responsible for the people he killed. He prays for himself after killing his targets.. Even though he says he feels nothing and isnt responisble for the people he kills. " A hired gun " is what he considers himself.
The majority: KAIDAN IS BORING!!! KAIDAN IS A WHINER!!
How is he a whiner? Can somebody show me at least one scene where he seemed to be whiner?? He's boring because he comes across as subtle with hidden strength and not all in your face renegade like
Wrex/Grunt/Garrus/Jack
Sometimes I wonder if these people even bothereed talking to Ash/Kaidan just to get their perspective rather than just dismissing them as these things.
I was told about what happens with them in ME3.. And it seems like we are once again gonna get put into "Forced Friendship" with characters like Tali, Garrus, Thane, etc.. While the VS is made to look... you know.. Bad
I am aware that things can change. I just hope these characters are done some justice after being railroaded in ME2
I kinda feel the same way. ( This is why Tali is dead in most of my playthroughs lol ) haha but seriously, I read it and didn't like the stuff I read regarding the VS either. But I will reserve judgement until I play it. Ignore the hypocrisy.
#3
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 03:35
Someone With Mass
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Isn't this better reserved for the character board?
By the way, if you think Tali is close-minded when it comes to synthetics, you're not going to like a certain new character in ME3. Because he hates them for pretty much the same reasons Tali did.
By the way, if you think Tali is close-minded when it comes to synthetics, you're not going to like a certain new character in ME3. Because he hates them for pretty much the same reasons Tali did.
Modifié par Someone With Mass, 16 novembre 2011 - 03:36 .
#4
Guest_D3MON-SOVER3IGN_*
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 03:39
Guest_D3MON-SOVER3IGN_*
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Someone With Mass wrote...
Isn't this better reserved for the character board?
By the way, if you think Tali is close-minded when it comes to synthetics, you're not going to like a certain new character in ME3. Because he hates them for pretty much the same reasons Tali did.
Thats not good. Well, Im siding with the Geth if I cant promote peace.
#5
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 03:43
Dariustwinblade
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But the Reapers aren't synthetics they are bio synthetics.
#6
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 03:48
Drinking Shepard
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SAGEHONOR wrote...
And it seems like we are once again gonna get put into "Forced Friendship" with characters like Tali, Garrus, Thane, etc.. While the VS is made to look... you know.. Bad
And lots of forced deaths for a considerably small group of permanent squadmembers, don't forget that too!
#7
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 03:52
Someone With Mass
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Dariustwinblade wrote...
But the Reapers aren't synthetics they are bio synthetics.
They still hurt him in a way nothing else in the galaxy can and that was good enough for him.
#8
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:03
LGTX
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I don't think characters' pros and cons and their fanbases should determine their presense and role in any game in general. Story should. The storywriters should. If they decided to give Ashley two lines in ME2, then kill her off in the first three seconds of ME3, or any other character for that matter, that won't by any logic mean not doing given character 'justice'...
#9
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:04
crimzontearz
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if by "justice" you mean "call her on being such a ***** on horizon and see her own up to it"? yeah sure... but then I will just have to leave her now catsuit clad butt on the Normandy.
Also the op's eamples are flawed. Tali is closeminded about the geth but the geth drove her people into being nomads with no land of their own. Also the heretic geth are tryin to wipe out all organic life in the galaxy.....just saying
Wrex is not exactly renegade, he is pragmatic with certain values and so is garrus (now jack is obviously renegade)
Also the op's eamples are flawed. Tali is closeminded about the geth but the geth drove her people into being nomads with no land of their own. Also the heretic geth are tryin to wipe out all organic life in the galaxy.....just saying
Wrex is not exactly renegade, he is pragmatic with certain values and so is garrus (now jack is obviously renegade)
#10
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:10
Lady Niltiak
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I read the Spoilers. The VS isn't the only one who's looking bad. Liara of course, is still Bioware's favorite.
I'll believe the spoilers when I see them in game.
I'll believe the spoilers when I see them in game.
#11
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:10
Comsky159
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LGTX wrote...
I don't think characters' pros and cons and their fanbases should determine their presense and role in any game in general. Story should. The storywriters should. If they decided to give Ashley two lines in ME2, then kill her off in the first three seconds of ME3, or any other character for that matter, that won't by any logic mean not doing given character 'justice'...
This, this, this. Narrativity requires that some characters be more significant than others and we can't really get all wrapped up in this idea of "equality" in character appearance.
#12
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:12
Someone With Mass
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Comsky159 wrote...
LGTX wrote...
I don't think characters' pros and cons and their fanbases should determine their presense and role in any game in general. Story should. The storywriters should. If they decided to give Ashley two lines in ME2, then kill her off in the first three seconds of ME3, or any other character for that matter, that won't by any logic mean not doing given character 'justice'...
This, this, this. Narrativity requires that some characters be more significant than others and we can't really get all wrapped up in this idea of "equality" in character appearance.
And that's exactly what happens in ME3. Sure, some characters are given certain tools to become a little more important, but I don't think they're overdoing it. Much.
#13
Guest_SAGEHONOR_*
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:13
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crimzontearz wrote...
if by "justice" you mean "call her on being such a ***** on horizon and see her own up to it"? yeah sure... but then I will just have to leave her now catsuit clad butt on the Normandy.
Also the op's eamples are flawed. Tali is closeminded about the geth but the geth drove her people into being nomads with no land of their own. Also the heretic geth are tryin to wipe out all organic life in the galaxy.....just saying
Wrex is not exactly renegade, he is pragmatic with certain values and so is garrus (now jack is obviously renegade)
The Quarians attacked the geth first... Wrex and Garrus are indeed renegades.
"Being such a ***** on Horizon.. Yep you are exactly the kind of person im talking about.
#14
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:15
Ryzaki
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Anyone who ever though the characters were ever gonna be equally important was deluding themselves.
That said the forced friendships with Garrus, Tali and Liara irritates me.
That said the forced friendships with Garrus, Tali and Liara irritates me.
#15
Guest_D3MON-SOVER3IGN_*
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:17
Guest_D3MON-SOVER3IGN_*
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Ryzaki wrote...
Anyone who ever though the characters were ever gonna be equally important was deluding themselves.
That said the forced friendships with Garrus, Tali and Liara irritates me.
True, but Liara, VS, Garrus, Tali will be part of your core squad. I understand the lack of appearance in some of the ME2 squadmmates. But I also understand some of the favoritism.
#16
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:17
Wuartz
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Please, stop. You're making me curious, and I don't want to spoil...Someone With Mass wrote...
Isn't this better reserved for the character board?
By the way, if you think Tali is close-minded when it comes to synthetics, you're not going to like a certain new character in ME3. Because he hates them for pretty much the same reasons Tali did.
#17
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:24
CptData
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The OP gets a point, but also some stuff is wrong or can be read the wrong way.
Just my imagination how large parts of the fandom react when thinking of Ashley or Kaidan:
Kaidan:
- he's whining
- he's constantly lecturing me
- he's Carth !!!!111eleven
- he's boring
- he's looking too mediocre
- he's having a catfight with Liara
- he's [put some nonsense of shallow people here]
===> I killed him on Virmire because I hate him.
===> I killed him on Virmire because I hate Ashley even more and want make her sobbing over Kaidan's death.
Ashley:
- she's a racist
- she's xenophobic
- she's questioning Shepard's authority
- she's ninjamancing Shepard
- she's b*tchy half the time I talk to her
- she's a religious zealot
- she's ugly
- she's insulting Liara
- she's insulting Garrus
- she shots Wrex
- she loves poems
- she's [put some nonsense of shallow people here]
===> I killed her on Virmire because I can't stand her
===> I killed her not on Virmire because I want her to suffer Kaidan's death
You think that's just stuff I made up in my own small world? Hmm. Nope. I'm not around BSN for longer than something like two months, although I'm playing ME since it got released for PC. So I'm sure I missed a lot of debates regarding the VS. All of the stuff I quoted came up within the last two months.
Seriously, why all the hate?
Seriously, do those two characters deserve all those negative emotions?
*sigh* Always the same sh*t ... I hope BW is not changing Kaidan's or Ashley's character because of some crybabies but keep them like they are for those who love those characters.
Just my imagination how large parts of the fandom react when thinking of Ashley or Kaidan:
Kaidan:
- he's whining
- he's constantly lecturing me
- he's Carth !!!!111eleven
- he's boring
- he's looking too mediocre
- he's having a catfight with Liara
- he's [put some nonsense of shallow people here]
===> I killed him on Virmire because I hate him.
===> I killed him on Virmire because I hate Ashley even more and want make her sobbing over Kaidan's death.
Ashley:
- she's a racist
- she's xenophobic
- she's questioning Shepard's authority
- she's ninjamancing Shepard
- she's b*tchy half the time I talk to her
- she's a religious zealot
- she's ugly
- she's insulting Liara
- she's insulting Garrus
- she shots Wrex
- she loves poems
- she's [put some nonsense of shallow people here]
===> I killed her on Virmire because I can't stand her
===> I killed her not on Virmire because I want her to suffer Kaidan's death
You think that's just stuff I made up in my own small world? Hmm. Nope. I'm not around BSN for longer than something like two months, although I'm playing ME since it got released for PC. So I'm sure I missed a lot of debates regarding the VS. All of the stuff I quoted came up within the last two months.
Seriously, why all the hate?
Seriously, do those two characters deserve all those negative emotions?
*sigh* Always the same sh*t ... I hope BW is not changing Kaidan's or Ashley's character because of some crybabies but keep them like they are for those who love those characters.
Modifié par CptData, 16 novembre 2011 - 04:26 .
#18
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:24
BatmanPWNS
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It's their story and their characters. Don't like it? Then suck it up or just don't bother buying it.
#19
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:25
matt-bassist
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Drinking Shepard wrote...
SAGEHONOR wrote...
And it seems like we are once again gonna get put into "Forced Friendship" with characters like Tali, Garrus, Thane, etc.. While the VS is made to look... you know.. Bad
And lots of forced deaths for a considerably small group of permanent squadmembers, don't forget that too!
Not true. Only one is a forced death, and that is because it's a Virmire situation. The rest of them clearly state that if you did X or Y in either ME1, ME2 or ME3, the characters don't *have* to die. Think Wrex in ME1... That being said, the one death where you can let Liara fall down the Prothean shaft and die a horrible death might just be something I wouldn't mind doing ... heh heh
#20
Guest_D3MON-SOVER3IGN_*
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:26
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BatmanPWNS wrote...
It's their story and their characters. Don't like it? Then suck it up or just don't bother buying it.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
#21
Guest_D3MON-SOVER3IGN_*
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:27
Guest_D3MON-SOVER3IGN_*
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CptData wrote...
The OP gets a point, but also some stuff is wrong or can be read the wrong way.
Just my imagination how large parts of the fandom react when thinking of Ashley or Kaidan:
Kaidan:
- he's whining
- he's constantly lecturing me
- he's Carth !!!!111eleven
- he's boring
- he's looking too mediocre
- he's having a catfight with Liara
- he's [put some nonsense of shallow people here]
===> I killed him on Virmire because I hate him.
===> I killed him on Virmire because I hate Ashley even more and want make her sobbing over Kaidan's death.
Ashley:
- she's a racist
- she's xenophobic
- she's questioning Shepard's authority
- she's ninjamancing Shepard
- she's b*tchy half the time I talk to her
- she's a religious zealot
- she's ugly
- she's insulting Liara
- she's insulting Garrus
- she shots Wrex
- she loves poems
- she's [put some nonsense of shallow people here]
===> I killed her on Virmire because I can't stand her
===> I killed her not on Virmire because I want her to suffer Kaidan's death
You think that's just stuff I made up in my own small world? Hmm. Nope. I'm not around BSN for longer than something like two months, although I'm playing ME since it got released for PC. So I'm sure I missed a lot of debates regarding the VS. All of the stuff I quoted came up within the last two months.
Seriously, why all the hate?
Seriously, do those two characters deserve all those negative emotions?
*sigh* Always the same sh*t ... I hope BW is not changing Kaidan's or Ashley's character because of some crybabies but keep them like they are for those who love those characters.
This made me laugh because I heard all of those reasons before. I thought youtube was bad
#22
Guest_SAGEHONOR_*
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:28
Guest_SAGEHONOR_*
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BatmanPWNS wrote...
It's their story and their characters. Don't like it? Then suck it up or just don't bother buying it.
Who said they didn't like it? I just said i hope they do them justice.. Idiot.
#23
Guest_SAGEHONOR_*
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:29
Guest_SAGEHONOR_*
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D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...
CptData wrote...
The OP gets a point, but also some stuff is wrong or can be read the wrong way.
Just my imagination how large parts of the fandom react when thinking of Ashley or Kaidan:
Kaidan:
- he's whining
- he's constantly lecturing me
- he's Carth !!!!111eleven
- he's boring
- he's looking too mediocre
- he's having a catfight with Liara
- he's [put some nonsense of shallow people here]
===> I killed him on Virmire because I hate him.
===> I killed him on Virmire because I hate Ashley even more and want make her sobbing over Kaidan's death.
Ashley:
- she's a racist
- she's xenophobic
- she's questioning Shepard's authority
- she's ninjamancing Shepard
- she's b*tchy half the time I talk to her
- she's a religious zealot
- she's ugly
- she's insulting Liara
- she's insulting Garrus
- she shots Wrex
- she loves poems
- she's [put some nonsense of shallow people here]
===> I killed her on Virmire because I can't stand her
===> I killed her not on Virmire because I want her to suffer Kaidan's death
You think that's just stuff I made up in my own small world? Hmm. Nope. I'm not around BSN for longer than something like two months, although I'm playing ME since it got released for PC. So I'm sure I missed a lot of debates regarding the VS. All of the stuff I quoted came up within the last two months.
Seriously, why all the hate?
Seriously, do those two characters deserve all those negative emotions?
*sigh* Always the same sh*t ... I hope BW is not changing Kaidan's or Ashley's character because of some crybabies but keep them like they are for those who love those characters.
This made me laugh because I heard all of those reasons before. I thought youtube was bad
Only Talimancers and people who love Garrus/Wrex hates Ash and Kaidan
#24
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:33
Chewin
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SAGEHONOR wrote...
Only Talimancers and people who love Garrus/Wrex hates Ash and Kaidan
Talking by experience, are we?
#25
Posté 16 novembre 2011 - 04:35
CptData
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SAGEHONOR wrote...
D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...
CptData wrote...
*snip*
You think that's just stuff I made up in my own small world? Hmm. Nope. I'm not around BSN for longer than something like two months, although I'm playing ME since it got released for PC. So I'm sure I missed a lot of debates regarding the VS. All of the stuff I quoted came up within the last two months.
Seriously, why all the hate?
Seriously, do those two characters deserve all those negative emotions?
*sigh* Always the same sh*t ... I hope BW is not changing Kaidan's or Ashley's character because of some crybabies but keep them like they are for those who love those characters.
This made me laugh because I heard all of those reasons before. I thought youtube was bad
Only Talimancers and people who love Garrus/Wrex hates Ash and Kaidan
Hmm ... lemme point it this way: I like Wrex and Garrus and almost had a Shepard romancing Tali. It wasn't too difficult to avoid Wrex' death ...
Okay, but I'm a full Ashleymancer so I don't count. Myth busted or so ...
