131 réponses à ce sujet

[Fenris_13]

Chewin3 wrote...

SAGEHONOR wrote...
Only Talimancers and people who love Garrus/Wrex hates Ash and Kaidan

Talking by experience, are we?

Look at his sign up date. He's an obvious troll.

[Chewin]

That was my point.


EDIT: Though that doesn't make him a troll.

Modifié par Chewin3, 16 novembre 2011 - 04:39 .

[Fenris_13]

SAGEHONOR wrote...
What exactly did I say that counts as trolling?

Not trolling per see, but judging by your sign up date and what you're posting, I don't know what else to descibe you.

[Chala]

You know why there is hate against them?
Simple: Both are humans, both are"normal" and don't make crazy stuff (IE: Fight on a bar in Omega and being the only one who made it out alive)...
Same with Jacob, he is just a normal soldier and that's why some guys don't accept him.

[CptData]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

You know why there is hate against them?
Simple: Both are humans, both are"normal" and don't make crazy stuff (IE: Fight on a bar in Omega and being the only one who made it out alive)...
Same with Jacob, he is just a normal soldier and that's why some guys don't accept him.

That's a "perfect" reason to hate those characters:

"They're normal. They don't do crazy stuff.

I really wonder how those haters can even have a social life. They're surrounded by "normals"!!!

Edit:
Makes me sick. I just wanna enjoy the characters - all of them. Without any prejudice induced by some haters.

Modifié par CptData, 16 novembre 2011 - 04:54 .

[Xilizhra]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

You know why there is hate against them?
Simple: Both are humans, both are"normal" and don't make crazy stuff (IE: Fight on a bar in Omega and being the only one who made it out alive)...
Same with Jacob, he is just a normal soldier and that's why some guys don't accept him.

Okay, this is imbecilic. I'm starting to get royally sick of some VS fans who assume that they're bloody perfect characters and that only shallow people who can't appreciate stability dislike them. Yes, there are obnoxious fans on the other side as well, but you directly attack other fandoms way, way too often.

[crimzontearz]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

if by "justice" you mean "call her on being such a ***** on horizon and see her own up to it"? yeah sure... but then I will just have to leave her now catsuit clad butt on the Normandy.

Also the op's eamples are flawed. Tali is closeminded about the geth but the geth drove her people into being nomads with no land of their own. Also the heretic geth are tryin to wipe out all organic life in the galaxy.....just saying

Wrex is not exactly renegade, he is pragmatic with certain values and so is garrus (now jack is obviously renegade)

The Quarians attacked the geth first... Wrex and Garrus are indeed renegades.
"Being such a ***** on Horizon.. Yep you are exactly the kind of person im talking about.

oh so you are one of those people

fine, let me elaborate for your sake

1: I do not hate Ashley, I rather liked the character even tho I Romanced Liara. I have no issue with her religious undertones nor I care much about her being a little on the xenophobic side especially since she softens up toward the end of ME1....

BUT

As much as you want to paint it under different lights on horizon she had a choice: To trust shepard or not to trust shepard. Given all the information she had at the time relative to all she went through with Shepard in the past and that Shepard is now working with Cerberus AND Shepard's explanation (and mind you I arrive there always with Mordin and Garrus) she chooses not to trust him and to, metaphorically, put her fingers in her ears going "lalalalalalala can't hear you lalalalalalalala". Want to call it bad writing? fine, I'll concede but that does not change that still I want to call her on it

2: I liked her character so much that I REALLY dislike the fact she is being changed and made to wear a catsuit as opposed to uniform + armor after her dialogues in ME1. She is a spectre now, sure, and we have been told she has armor in the game but until I see it I am skeptical........VERY skeptical


finally 3: you may say Wrex is Renegade for instance but if you talk to him on Tuchanka he explains to Shepard that he has the chance to wipe out smaller clans but he does not adopting a diplomatic way, trying to unite them and his chief scout tells you he specifically ordered NEVER to sacrifice civilians even it costs them a battle, does that sound renegade to you?

Modifié par crimzontearz, 16 novembre 2011 - 04:56 .

[Chala]

Xilizhra wrote...

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

You know why there is hate against them?
Simple: Both are humans, both are"normal" and don't make crazy stuff (IE: Fight on a bar in Omega and being the only one who made it out alive)...
Same with Jacob, he is just a normal soldier and that's why some guys don't accept him.

Okay, this is imbecilic. I'm starting to get royally sick of some VS fans who assume that they're bloody perfect characters and that only shallow people who can't appreciate stability dislike them. Yes, there are obnoxious fans on the other side as well, but you directly attack other fandoms way, way too often.

What?!
No!
I didn't mean to attack anyone, but I noticed that the most "loved" characters are aliens or guys that do stuff that are  kinda impossible.
If you compare them with both VS they seem normal and doesn't look too "atractive" to some fans and that's understable.

It's like when you try to get a car: Some will appreciate more the "sport" kind, but others prefer confort over speed.

Sorry if I didn't express too well and sound like a hater but I speak spanish and it's hard to me to explain myself well.

Modifié par El_Chala_Legalizado, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:10 .

[Xilizhra]

My thoughts on why this is, exactly. So far as I can tell, it has nothing to do with being human per se.

[CptData]

Xilizhra wrote...

My thoughts on why this is, exactly. So far as I can tell, it has nothing to do with being human per se.

Yeah, I even wrote some answers. Your post made some MAJOR sense and was pleasing to read.

My rant here just showed some of the stuff I had to read about Ashley and Kaidan. I just wonder why some people hate those two characters (or one of them) so much ...

Xilizhra wrote...

As a closing statement... personally, I don't like the idea of James
Vega much, but only because I don't want new squadmates. I genuinely
hope that he manages to avoid the issues of popularity that the other
Alliance squadmates have, if only to show that Bioware didn't make the
same mistakes with the male human squadmate three times in a row.

I'll give him a chance. First I was a bit reserved and thought I simply don't wanna give someone else up for Vega but since most of the ME2 cast won't come back as "permanents" I feel Vega should tell his story too. Besides that a fellow Ashleymancer made him more interesting for me by couple of fanfics & dialogue.

So there we are. Basically, I hate none of the characters, the only "meh" is Jack, and only because I'm not in the psycho stuff. I wonder how she'll be in ME3, maybe then I can like her more.

Modifié par CptData, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:18 .

[Xilizhra]

Kaidan doesn't have much to hook you unless you really like his character, and Ashley was given the unfortunate combination of mild xenophobia and religiosity, which are easy for people to conflate and think that both are worse than they really are. I don't think it's much more than that.

[shepskisaac]

Xilizhra wrote...

My thoughts on why this is, exactly. So far as I can tell, it has nothing to do with being human per se.

Some interesting points but urhm unpopular? Lacks wide fanbase? Kaidan's got the larget fanbase behind Tali

[CptData]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaidan doesn't have much to hook you unless you really like his character, and Ashley was given the unfortunate combination of mild xenophobia and religiosity, which are easy for people to conflate and think that both are worse than they really are. I don't think it's much more than that.

Kaidan is difficult to like at first sight. It took three full playthroughs to get in touch with him, but since then I consider him as one of Shepard's closest friends. Now I can't leave him on Virmire without a bad feeling, and I'm an Ash-Fan.

Ashley comes with a healthy scepticism towards Aliens. I always use some line Shepard could say in the game or did in some similar way already:

Trust is like respect. You don't get it for free, you have to earn it.

And that's how Ashley works. She doesn't trust aliens because they look awesome. She has a valid reason for not trusting them. And if I'm getting her character right, she also doesn't trust ANYONE at first sight. But sure, you can mistake it as "xenophobic" if you want, the line is thin. She's definitely not a "full blown racist".
Same for her religious stuff: I'm an atheist. I never felt offended by the stuff she's talking about God. Maybe because I'm out of that age or because my fiancee is christian too ... I have no idea.

But yeah - Ashley was never designed to be liked by everyone. She's someone you need to know better to get her character - if you don't bring the patience to get in touch with her, you most likely won't like her.


Sorry for all the "Ashley" stuff here.

By the way, before ME3 I'll try a playthrough with Liara as LI. I never did one but I feel she deserves one. Same for Kaidan - he always gets virimired because I can't sacrifice Ashley

Modifié par CptData, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:24 .

[Chala]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaidan doesn't have much to hook you unless you really like his character, and Ashley was given the unfortunate combination of mild xenophobia and religiosity, which are easy for people to conflate and think that both are worse than they really are. I don't think it's much more than that.

Xenophia is too extreme
She just hates them. Is she was really a xenophobic she should try to remove them from the ship since the beggining. But the only time that she kills an alien (Wrex) was in a situation that was going out of hand.

Don't agree or like something doesn't makes you automaticaly an xeno/******/archno-fobic

[CptData]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaidan doesn't have much to hook you unless you really like his character, and Ashley was given the unfortunate combination of mild xenophobia and religiosity, which are easy for people to conflate and think that both are worse than they really are. I don't think it's much more than that.

Xenophia is too extreme
She just hates them. Is she was really a xenophobic she should try to remove them from the ship since the beggining. But the only time that she kills an alien (Wrex) was in a situation that was going out of hand.

Don't agree or like something doesn't makes you automaticaly an xeno/******/archno-fobic

Can't follow you here. I consider "racism" as worse than a phobia. At least less "homophobics" tend to kill homosexuals while racists are quite violent people usually.

[Iakus]

Well most of what I'd say is in previous posts so I'll just add

Bioware:

Don't give into the hate.

[Xilizhra]

And that's how Ashley works. She doesn't trust aliens because they look awesome. She has a valid reason for not trusting them. And if I'm getting her character right, she also doesn't trust ANYONE at first sight. But sure, you can mistake it as "xenophobic" if you want, the line is thin. She's definitely not a "full blown racist".

"I'm no fan of aliens," "I can't tell the aliens from the animals," that "bug-eyed monsters" line, "Saren can kiss his turian ass goodbye..." if they didn't want Ashley to appear at all speciesist, they did a really terrible job.

Same for her religious stuff: I'm an atheist. I never felt offended by the stuff she's talking about God. Maybe because I'm out of that age or because my fiancee is christian too ... I have no idea.

Because it was combined with the xenophobia.

[Slayer299]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...
Xenophia is too extreme
She just hates them. Is she was really a xenophobic she should try to remove them from the ship since the beggining. But the only time that she kills an alien (Wrex) was in a situation that was going out of hand.

Don't agree or like something doesn't makes you automaticaly an xeno/******/archno-fobic

And hating them is not extreme? I have not seen in-game any examples of Ashley hating aliens, (if you can, please do), she doesn't trust any of them as far as she can throw them yes.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Watch out the spoilers.

And, I hope they do MASS EFFECT 2 CHARACTERS justice...

[Someone With Mass]

Still going with utility over popularity when it comes to writing the characters.

Even if some feedback doesn't hurt.

[CptData]

Xilizhra wrote...

"I'm no fan of aliens," "I can't tell the aliens from the animals," that "bug-eyed monsters" line, "Saren can kiss his turian ass goodbye..." if they didn't want Ashley to appear at all speciesist, they did a really terrible job.

"I'm no fan of aliens" ===> "I'm no fan of religions" - family issues.
That's no reason for actively hating religions. I just don't want to become religious and feel offended by ppl trying to convert me. Besides that I believe in "live and let live" - and if ppl become happy with God, I don't see any reason to stop them.
Just an example. "I'm no fan" is overrated and could mean everything from "not actively supporting this" to "I dislike this". In my case it's close to the first statement and it also applies for Ashley.


"I can't tell the aliens from the animals" is the only line that even bugs me as an Ashley-fan. It seems OOC and is uttered as banter. I can't defend Ashley here without constructing stuff I can't prove.
Lets say if Ash would say the stuff about the Keepers (which look like huge insects) or the Rachni (same here) no one would feel offended by that statement. However, Ashley says it while surrounded by Turians, Asari, Volus or Salarians so ... this point is yours.

"Saren can kiss his turian ass goodbye..." ==> "Saddam can kiss his iraqi ass goodbye"
Wouldn't mind that at all. Ashley is a soldier and soldiers tend to say such stuff. No racism detected.

Because it was combined with the xenophobia.

Another "lemme put it this way moment" - Ashley sounds like the normally educated girl from the east coast with slight southern influence.
And that's an European writing. My ex girlfriend is from USA. She sounded exactly the same.

It's just that: Ashley never used her belief to offend or deny any aliens - at least not in my game.


-----

Am I the only thinking (in a bright moment) all the fighting over fictional characters is a bit pointless? It's fun, as long as it stays civilized, but it makes me sad when "haters gonna hate".

Modifié par CptData, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:53 .