261 réponses à ce sujet

[Nope Dot Avi]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Ok...a few things

1) Diablo 3 didn't come out this year.
2) Devil Surivor and Persona 2 are re-releases. I'm not 100% sure, but I'd imagine that makes them instantly not eligible.
3) Ni no Kuni hasn't been released in the west yet, and as such, most likely isn't eligible.
4) I've honestly never heard of Deus Ex 3 being refered to as an actual RPG. Most of what I've heard is that Deus Ex 3 is a shooter with "RPG elements" (ie the ability to upgrade). I only played the demo, so I have no real clue of which is the truth...suffice to say I'm a little skeptical of people calling it an RPG. I don't generally consider something an RPG unless you have a certain level of control over where you are/what you're doing...and it seemed like a fairly standard shooter to me.

Okay, Diablo III Beta (or substitute the MMORPG of your choice).

DX3 RPG elements are basically Mass Effect RPG elements with a better dialogue system, deeper character build options, and more interaction with non-hostile things. So if you consider Mass Effect to be an RPG, you'd probably consider Deus Ex to be an RPG. If not, probably not.

Oh, and if we're only counting American JRPG releases, Radiant Historia.

Also, Bastion.

[xkg]

Sylvianus wrote...

xkg wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
Otherwise, The witcher 2 isn't a multiplatform rpg, unlike DA2. We can't evaluate it on the same level. ( sales, we don't know if this game would sell well on console as much as on the pc. )

Maybe more like "isn't a console game" rather than "multiplatform"

Lets see:

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword  -  Wii only game
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception  -  PS3 only game

Yet they both are nominated for GOTY award.
http://www.spike.com...ame-of-the-year

And about sales ... The Legend of Zelda isn't even out yet so this argument is very weak.

Okay let's be MORE clear for fools like you.

Zelda , yes it isn't a multiplatform, but it will be sold by  millions. It is already expected to be one of the biggest games on wii, and one of the largest sales.

So that's why Zelda and Uncharted for ps3 are taken into account.

The witcher 2 ? Not more than 500 000.

The pc only isn't enough to evaluate compared to the others games. Data are as much important as subjective opinions.

It would be the same for Skyrim not even released , and yet, already nominated. Because of sales expected.

Do you understand now ?

Wow. So you're saying this whole GOTY is just a simple sales contest and the actual game quality doesn't matter?

Besides, you just proved my point that TW2 isn't there because it is only a PC games and multiplatform has nothing to do with it and you're calling me a fool.  That does beg the question who the true fool is here

haha, typical internet n00b.

Modifié par xkg, 18 novembre 2011 - 08:47 .

[Tommyspa]

Dragon Age 2 deserves that spot. Just because the internet is full of butthurt doesn't mean it was a bad game. It also has a stake in Best song with I'm not calling you a liar's re-imagining, well deserved as well.

[hoorayforicecream]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

 Some think the DA2 political story was good...you don't.  It's subjective.

No it's not.
The only standard we have that we can base our assement on is real life and DA2's political plot is ridiculous in that regard. Those who believe otherwise are simply wrong. 

They can believe it was interesting, that is subjective. But they are innacurate if they say DA2's political plot was realistic.

I don't believe anyone mentioned realism anywhere until you just brought it up. Her position was that some found the story "good" and/or "interesting". Equating either of those terms to "realistic" is foolish at best, and a strawman tactic at worst.

Key word was "political". They can think the story was good, that was not the point. I am talking about a specific domain within that story.

What constitutes a "good political plot" is how much it conforms to the only objective standard we have, which is real life politics.

You can find a political plot very interesting, but if from an objective academic perspective, it's bad (as in unrealistic, over the top, very poorly concieved...etc), then it's bad. No amount of interest will change that, and those interested don't have to care. 

I understand that you think what makes a political plot good is realism. I also understand that this is yet another subjective opinion of yours that you're trying to pass off as objective. All of the criteria you've given (unrealistic, over the top, poorly conceived) are also all subjective in nature. So really, I've just got to ask you to stop trying to hold others to your special brand of "objective" standards, because they really are anything but.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Well great. Everything except 'things' are subjective, Even science is based on subjects which apply on objects (after the realization of facts cause by experiment and observation of objects). Without subjective, thinking like a human is impossible.

Thinking is the Reality. I think, therefore I am.

DAO may look boring but it is superior in every way to DA2. And read those critic comments for this true subjective opinion.

As one of the users said, I like to see DA2 will fail miserably.

[DeathDragon185]

Deus Ex: HR will win for sure

DA2 should be nominated for most ORIGINAL RPG. 

Modifié par DeathDragon185, 18 novembre 2011 - 11:29 .

[Cyberarmy]

Skyrim, Dragon Age 2, Deus Ex HR and Dark Souls..
While its hard to choose which ill vote for, i know which one i would never ever vote.

Real bad part is DA2 s “I'm Not Calling You a Liar” by Florence + the Machine song had a chance to win an award,
if there wasnt any Portal 2 songs...


Edit: Uhoh never had taken this nomination seriously it seems.
No Witcher 2 or Battlefield 3 for best graphics????????? Wow.....
And Batman AC, RAGE?! and  LA Noir for the best graphics....
i mean Batman is a perfect game for me and going to keep it near me always but it has  outdated graphics espc if you compare it with Uncharted 3....

Modifié par Cyberarmy, 18 novembre 2011 - 12:22 .

[Sylvianus]

xkg wrote...
Wow. So you're saying this whole GOTY is just a simple sales contest and the actual game quality doesn't matter?

Besides, you just proved my point that TW2 isn't there because it is only a PC games and multiplatform has nothing to do with it and you're calling me a fool.  That does beg the question who the true fool is here

haha, typical internet n00b.

You simplify everything. A reasonable person would understand that it means that it is really taken into account. And that this information is not negligible at all.

Nominated among the best rpg games, is a big deal. Don't be so naive. If the game does not sell well even if it is considered good, it won't be nominated for some reviews ( they are all different ). A review is based on its own opinions and rules to nominate any game that can be considered among the best in a category. And SO, for some reviews, the sales can be important.

So in short, for you to understand, it does not necessarily mean that there is a conspiracy against the pc, it means that for some reviews, if sales do not follow or if they aren't enough high compared to others rpg, it won't be selected. For example this can be also considered as an indicator of popularity. Not the only indicator, of course! (I specify because you love so much simplicity ) You can think it's wrong or right, but that's not the matter.

What I said is clear. DA2 ps3, xbox, pc = 2.6 million in sales. Its popularity is certified, tried on all three platforms. Maybe less than DA0 but it is successful, whether we like it or not.

The Witcher 2 compared to Dragon Age ? A Success only on Pc. It's cool. But it isn't triable on the same level in terms of sales and popularity, since not even considered in other plateform, and sales less important. Why it would be among the best rpgs when only a minority played this game compared to other games, and when the sales in general aren't that much impressive ? It's impressive on the pc level, but not in general for a review who have a vision multi-platform. ( I give you the logic of some reviewers, not mine )

  It doesn't mean necessairly that they " hate pc gamers   and that's why they didn't put the witcher 2. "

The other games only on console on this list don't have to be multi-plateform, since their sales are already considered or expected very high. Console = many consumers, ( Skyrim, Zelda, Uncharted, millions and millions ) it's enough to be judjed popular or not, not the same for pc.

It does not contradict what I said, simply, of course, many complex factors play, that's what you don't seem to understand, never only one reason explains everything for such things. . I am convinced that a rpg game only on pc, even successful, won't be selected by some reviews, if the other games are multi-platform, and others with high sales in millions. These considerations suck or not for you, but it could explain something else that your " theory "

Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 novembre 2011 - 03:05 .

[Pedrak]

As many flaws as DA2 had (and it certainly had plenty) , it still had better writing than Skyrim.

Skyrim is a fun game that does some things very well (and much better than DA2).

But still, people treating it like it is Fallout meets Gothic 2 meets Torment is a bit excessive. Bethesda's tin ear for dialogues, bland NPCs and "go to that dungeon and kill/retrieve monsters/stuff" quests are still there.

Modifié par Pedrak, 18 novembre 2011 - 01:57 .

[RenegadeXV]

Pedrak wrote...

As many flaws as DA2 had (and it certainly had plenty) , it still had better writing than Skyrim.

That's my one major criticism of Skyrim. I don't give a damn about a single character in that game.

[DownyTif]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

How did DAII get nominated?

Because, despite all of everyone's b*tching, it's a very good game. It's nothing like DA:O, but it's still a very good game, and you'd be ignorant or simple to say otherwise. Look at what's out there today, and look at DAII. It's better than most, and that's a fact.

So I'm ignorant or simple? Because DA2 is at best average for me. I could call you names also... but meh. Of course it's better than some other games on the market, but very far from "very good game". It doesn't deserve the RPG of the Year nomination, especially not over Witcher 2. If the force of DA2 is the political plot, well the one in TW2 is really more elaborate. And if you haven't played it, don't even bother comment.

[DownyTif]

@Sylvianus
I think you are probably right. It's the only valid reason I think. TW2 is coming to 360 so I guess this will enlight many people here.

[DownyTif]

COGNiTiON 1 wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

As many flaws as DA2 had (and it certainly had plenty) , it still had better writing than Skyrim.

That's my one major criticism of Skyrim. I don't give a damn about a single character in that game.

What's good about this fact is: diversity. DA2, TW2, Skyrim. Unfortunatly, all 3 are in competition for awards, but if you remove that from the equation, the winners are us, gamers. With DA2, you get a certain style of gameplay and story. With TW2, it's a different. With Skyrim, same. All 3 have flaws, and all 3 have forces and I got to play all 3 games. If all the games were the same, or if Bethesda, CDPR or Bioware had a monopoly, the RPG genre would be boring.

I sure hope that all 3 companies continue to produce games, for the sake of RPG gamers

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

The point is it was not a great year for RPGs

[naughty99]

Pedrak wrote...

Bethesda's tin ear for dialogues, bland NPCs and "go to that dungeon and kill/retrieve monsters/stuff" quests are still there.

As opposed to the "find some random item in a chest and then much later receive gold from a random stranger with an exclamation mark" quests?

[Pedrak]

naughty99 wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

Bethesda's tin ear for dialogues, bland NPCs and "go to that dungeon and kill/retrieve monsters/stuff" quests are still there.

As opposed to the "find some random item in a chest and then much later receive gold from a random stranger with an exclamation mark" quests?

Yeah, that was a weak feature. And before Skyrim worshippers gather around for the lynching, I am not some kind of "DA2 rocks, Skyrim sucks" fanboy. I actually believe Bio could learn some precious lessons from the game. 

However, DA2 also had some fairly original quests, some C&C, some reasonably well-developed characters with good voice acting, and decent dialogues.

Skyrim, as far as I have played (20 hours or so), has just vanilla characters with little personality (oh boys, gotta love companions like Lydia or Brelyna Maryon - very deep characterization here), very traditional quests (even one that promised to be creative, joining the bard academy in Solitude, turned out to be laughably bland), and the C&C outside the civil war quest (haven't tried it yet, but it seems you can join one of the two sides) seems to be limited to accepting a quest or refusing it.

Then there are gems like the guy that brings food to the Greybeards for free and then pays you 750 gold to do it at his place. Or the exchanges between the guy with the ill wife who cheerily compliments you "Good work!" for doing some banal stuff for him. Or the first quest to prove you worthy to a fighter guild, which is to bring a sword to the fighter's blacksmith two rooms away. Legendary stuff, really.

For me all these things deserve as much scorn as DA2's re-used areas or empty Kirkwall or Templars who don't notice blood mages casting spells next to them.

In short, neither game is Torment, MOTB or Bloodlines.

Modifié par Pedrak, 18 novembre 2011 - 03:49 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
I understand that you think what makes a political plot good is realism. I also understand that this is yet another subjective opinion of yours that you're trying to pass off as objective. All of the criteria you've given (unrealistic, over the top, poorly conceived) are also all subjective in nature. So really, I've just got to ask you to stop trying to hold others to your special brand of "objective" standards, because they really are anything but.

Not really, because the only objective standard we have is real life. So the only way to objectively judge a political plot is how it compares to real life.

If people think that an idiotic political plot was interesting, then good for them. But it's simply not a good political plot, because what makes a political plot good is precisely how political it is (as in, complex, not bipolar and simple....etc). In other words, realistic because the standard for those who actually know what they are talking about when it comes to this specific domain is going to be real life politics. I was never fond of subjectivity justifying all kinds of innacuracies as is the norm around here. 

But I am tired of this argument. If we had that 5 months ago, I would have explained in detail why people who think such are utterly wrong. But now, I reallly don't give a damn and it's off-topic.

[Ecto-Plasmic Effect]

Because it's a RPG. That was a pretty dumb question. Will it win? I doubt it.

Modifié par Ecto-Plasmic Effect, 18 novembre 2011 - 03:51 .

[London]

I know that the intent of the OP was to be mean-spirited because OP was hoping DA2 would have been more like DA1, or whatever reason people have melodramatically attacked DA2 all year, but for me, DA2 is my RPG of the year.

I bought DA2, Witcher 2, and Skyrim, so they all got my money. DA2 is the game that kept me interested the most, and is the only RPG I've replayed from start to finish more than once in several years.

If I were to rank the games on the issues I found important, it would look something like this:

Characters & Story: DA2, Witcher 2, Skyrim
Romance Options: DA2, Witcher 2, Skyrim
Graphics: Witcher 2, Skyrim, DA2
Musical Score: DA2/Witcher 2, Skyrim
World: Skyrim, DA2/Witcher2
Combat Mechanics: DA2, Witcher 2, Skyrim
Crafting: DA2, Witcher 2, Skyrim (Hate it and avoid it)

All of this is subjective; I'm someone that enjoys story-driven RPGs and DA2's actual writing I found leaps and bounds over its competition this year. (Witcher2 was okay, but I guess if you weren't really into the series all of the name dropping that happens out of nowhere is kind of meaningless, and it's hard to position the moral choices you are being asked to make if you don't know enough about the world around you to know what you are really agreeing to). Skyrim's story & dialogue, after 12 hours or so of playing and also you-tubing areas I haven't been to yet, has been very, very....dull.

[csfteeeer]

Pedrak wrote...

As many flaws as DA2 had (and it certainly had plenty) , it still had better writing than Skyrim.

Skyrim is a fun game that does some things very well (and much better than DA2).

But still, people treating it like it is Fallout meets Gothic 2 meets Torment is a bit excessive. Bethesda's tin ear for dialogues, bland NPCs and "go to that dungeon and kill/retrieve monsters/stuff" quests are still there.

While i definitely agree that Skyrim doesn't have as Good writing as Planescape (though, i don't really think ANYTHING, has as good writing as PS:T),but...

I Don't agree about Bland NPCs, it's just that they lack character development, but for the most part NPCs have a backstory that is easy to like, but beyond that there isn't much more character development, there rellies the Problem.

as for Dialogue, while it isn't on PS:T's level(again, i don't think ANYTHING is), it is certainly an almost unmeasurable improvement over Oblivion, and much better than a lot of other games out there,oh, and it doesn't try to be funny in EVERY SINGLE ****ING CONVERSATION.

i'll give you the quests, which they really overuse to stretch everything, way too much.

but i still think the game has an Awesome setting, and the story is even better, what isn't very good is the STORYTELLING, as it can veil something to the point of making it look like it's the best thing ever, like BW games.

see, and this comes from someone who loves most BW games, what BW is good at, is the Storytelling, they engage with and make the player feel emotionally attached, or perhaps care, or just be interested, because of their storytelling, but the stories Themselves end up being rather, just ok, or meh.

Bethesda, however, is the other way around.
With the exeption of Oblivion, most of their stories are deep and interesting, but their storytelling is lacking.

[Pedrak]

csfteeeer wrote...
but i still think the game has an Awesome setting, and the story is even better, what isn't very good is the STORYTELLING, as it can veil something to the point of making it look like it's the best thing ever, like BW games.

see, and this comes from someone who loves most BW games, what BW is good at, is the Storytelling, they engage with and make the player feel emotionally attached, or perhaps care, or just be interested, because of their storytelling,

I actually agree with this. BW's narration is simply more engaging and compelling, whereas Beth's is more detached and generic.

BW, in a way, is like Stephen King: many of his plots aren't necessarily great, but his prose is so vivid and interesting that it captivates the reader.

Modifié par Pedrak, 18 novembre 2011 - 04:29 .

[MerinTB]

Sylvianus wrote...
What I said is clear. DA2 ps3, xbox, pc = 2.6 million in sales. Its popularity is certified, tried on all three platforms. Maybe less than DA0 but it is successful, whether we like it or not.

The Witcher 2 compared to Dragon Age ? A Success only on Pc. It's cool. But it isn't triable on the same level in terms of sales and popularity, since not even considered in other plateform, and sales less important. Why it would be among the best rpgs when only a minority played this game compared to other games, and when the sales in general aren't that much impressive ? It's impressive on the pc level, but not in general for a review who have a vision multi-platform. ( I give you the logic of some reviewers, not mine )

Minority played?  Sales?  Is that key to being on the Best RPG chart?

Hmmm... (and don't argue about vgchartz - you find another ONE source to compare ALL the games in question)

Dark Souls - (X360 + PS3) @ 1 million
DX:HR - (X360 + PS3 + PC) @ 1.7 million
DA2 - (X360 + PS3 + PC) @ 1.6 million
Skyrim - (X360 + PS3 + PC) @ 2.4 million
TW2 - (PC) @ @ .65 million

There's a big gap between TW@ and 3 of the 4 games on that list, sure.  2 to 4 times the sales.
But there's not THAT big a difference between Dark Souls and TW2.

But, okay, it's not about platform but about sales.  So the highest selling RPGs are listed, not biased by being on consoles.

...

Pokemon Black/White sole over 4 million.  In just the Americas.  Over 12 million world wide.

Sales and popularity and not played by a minority....
if .65 million is a "minority" compared to 1.6 million (40% of sales), then what the HELL is 2.4 million compared to 12 million (20% of sales) let alone 1 million to 12 million (8% of sales)?

[Sylvianus]

lol, What ? 65 millions of what ?

We are talking about players who buy this kind of game, so it is linked to sales and popularity, yes...

And Dark soul is multiplatorm, even if it isn't on pc. Ps3 + xbox = multiplatform even if it's not on PC. Only the witcher 2 isn't yet.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 novembre 2011 - 05:07 .

[xkg]

^
.65 million = 0.65 million = 650 000 = 650 thousands

Modifié par xkg, 18 novembre 2011 - 05:46 .