Aller au contenu

Photo

Thermal Clips: On/Off switch in the menu?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
176 réponses à ce sujet

#101
The Spamming Troll

The Spamming Troll
  • Members
  • 6 252 messages

Omega-202 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Look I really don't mind whether they have a reload button or a cooldown timer, either is fine; I just don't want to have to run around picking up clips.


You're doing something wrong if that's an issue for you.  

Switch weapons, aim better, make better use of powers, pick a better selection of weapons that give larger ammo pools, remember where the large preset ammo stocks are in each mission.

Its really not difficult even on Insanity.  If you're going around and only using the Widow (with the Locust and Carnifex in reserve) I have no sympathy for you.  You're playing wrong.  If you're using the Mattock, Viper, Predator and Scimitar and still running out of ammo then you should be playing on a lower difficulty.  


its all fine and dandy for level 30 soldiers with upgraded amoo pools who have memorized ammo stocks from multiple playthroughs who know every enemies exact pattern. bozorgmehrs vids are great, only becasue he knows exactly what corner every enemy will be around. but what about biowares target audience, the casual weekend renter who plays vanilla ME?  and lets say that same player is at the point in the game where hes a precollector ship caster classes who only posses the predetor and the shirkuen? your expecting them to be satisfied falling back on the predetor while you prolly fall back on the GPS, mattock, or widow? i just dont think the complaint stems from players incapable of being good at shooters, especialy with one as basic as ME2s combat.

anyways, i agree with the OP on the ammo choice option. i mean youd think bioware would alteast try to please its ME1 fans. why am i not being catered to?  ive seen more things geared towards the weekened renter then an ME fan. from vega, to MP. at the very least ME3 should feature the spectre pistol from ME1, prolly without mods tho. its the iconic weapon of ME1 and would BLEED nostalgia indefinately.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 17 novembre 2011 - 11:49 .


#102
Jorina Leto

Jorina Leto
  • Members
  • 748 messages
Of course this is not going to happen. Thermal clips suck, but they are going to stay. And modding the game is now cheating, because it is a multiplayer game.

So accept this and don't buy the game.

Modifié par Jorina Leto, 18 novembre 2011 - 12:27 .


#103
GMagnum

GMagnum
  • Members
  • 1 670 messages
dam any1 else member in me1 u culd upgrade ur weap n make it hella op so u culd shoot it 4 lyke forever n it never overheat

#104
onelifecrisis

onelifecrisis
  • Members
  • 2 829 messages

GMagnum wrote...

dam any1 else member in me1 u culd upgrade ur weap n make it hella op so u culd shoot it 4 lyke forever n it never overheat


Don't go there man, just don't.

#105
GMagnum

GMagnum
  • Members
  • 1 670 messages
wut u mean bro i wus jus sayin tbh
dun matter wut dey do 4 me i like both
dey shuld make it so wen ur thermal clip run out u cn rip da shyt out n jam it n some1 face cuz da clip gon be hot or sum shyt rite? if it aint hot den we shuld jus beat da shyt outta sum1 w/ it

wuld be hella cool tbh

#106
onelifecrisis

onelifecrisis
  • Members
  • 2 829 messages

GMagnum wrote...

dey shuld make it so wen ur thermal clip run out u cn rip da shyt out n jam it n some1 face cuz da clip gon be hot or sum shyt rite? if it aint hot den we shuld jus beat da shyt outta sum1 w/ it

wuld be hella cool tbh


lol

Why is it that when you say it, that actually sounds like a great idea?

#107
BlaCKRodjj

BlaCKRodjj
  • Members
  • 217 messages

Omega-202 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The lack of difficulty in not running out of ammo is precisely what makes picking up ammo after battle such a pointless makework activity which should be scrapped.


But its not just that its not difficult, its a non-issue.  The door leading out of every large encounter room had a stack of double clips to refill your stock.  If you played the encounter well, you used less ammo than what you have to walk past just to get to the next section.  

Even in one of the most ammo starved sections of the game (Mordin's recruitment, balcony Vorcha rockets room) the lack of ammo is purposeful.  It keeps you from camping the opposite balcony and picking the enemies off as they come in through the single door choke point.  The same can be said about other low ammo sections.  It forces you to tactically move across the battlefield where in an overheat scenario you could just set up camp and wait for the enemies to funnel into view.  There are plenty of scearnios where you can do that due to large ammo caches but those are designed that way.  

In ME1, the developers and players realized that the most successful way to clear out the generic warehouse maps was to just open the door, stand in the doorway and just wait for the enemies to stupidly wander into view while shouting "I WILL DESTROY YOU".  That's bad gameplay.  In ME2, the same scenario would have forced you to actually run into the room, seek cover and move about in order to find more ammo.  

If the trade off for this gameplay benefit is having to make a short detour at the end of an encounter to hit up the stack of clips near the door, then so be it.   


THIS.

#108
Ghost-621

Ghost-621
  • Members
  • 1 057 messages

BlaCKRodjj wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The lack of difficulty in not running out of ammo is precisely what makes picking up ammo after battle such a pointless makework activity which should be scrapped.


But its not just that its not difficult, its a non-issue.  The door leading out of every large encounter room had a stack of double clips to refill your stock.  If you played the encounter well, you used less ammo than what you have to walk past just to get to the next section.  

Even in one of the most ammo starved sections of the game (Mordin's recruitment, balcony Vorcha rockets room) the lack of ammo is purposeful.  It keeps you from camping the opposite balcony and picking the enemies off as they come in through the single door choke point.  The same can be said about other low ammo sections.  It forces you to tactically move across the battlefield where in an overheat scenario you could just set up camp and wait for the enemies to funnel into view.  There are plenty of scearnios where you can do that due to large ammo caches but those are designed that way.  

In ME1, the developers and players realized that the most successful way to clear out the generic warehouse maps was to just open the door, stand in the doorway and just wait for the enemies to stupidly wander into view while shouting "I WILL DESTROY YOU".  That's bad gameplay.  In ME2, the same scenario would have forced you to actually run into the room, seek cover and move about in order to find more ammo.  

If the trade off for this gameplay benefit is having to make a short detour at the end of an encounter to hit up the stack of clips near the door, then so be it.   


THIS.


Wow, you know what would have been even better than thermal clips? Intelligent AI.

#109
wizardryforever

wizardryforever
  • Members
  • 2 826 messages

Ghost-621 wrote...

Wow, you know what would have been even better than thermal clips? Intelligent AI.

Well the thing is that requires a significant investment from the devs.  Making AI intelligent enough to be a serious threat to someone with bottomless ammo is a serious undertaking.  Thermal clips help make the AI tougher, and Bioware doesn't have to make them practically immune to bullets for them to be challenging.

And the AI is loads better in ME2 anyway, so I don't know what your point was really.

#110
Gatt9

Gatt9
  • Members
  • 1 748 messages

BlaCKRodjj wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The lack of difficulty in not running out of ammo is precisely what makes picking up ammo after battle such a pointless makework activity which should be scrapped.


But its not just that its not difficult, its a non-issue.  The door leading out of every large encounter room had a stack of double clips to refill your stock.  If you played the encounter well, you used less ammo than what you have to walk past just to get to the next section.  

Even in one of the most ammo starved sections of the game (Mordin's recruitment, balcony Vorcha rockets room) the lack of ammo is purposeful.  It keeps you from camping the opposite balcony and picking the enemies off as they come in through the single door choke point.  The same can be said about other low ammo sections.  It forces you to tactically move across the battlefield where in an overheat scenario you could just set up camp and wait for the enemies to funnel into view.  There are plenty of scearnios where you can do that due to large ammo caches but those are designed that way.  

In ME1, the developers and players realized that the most successful way to clear out the generic warehouse maps was to just open the door, stand in the doorway and just wait for the enemies to stupidly wander into view while shouting "I WILL DESTROY YOU".  That's bad gameplay.  In ME2, the same scenario would have forced you to actually run into the room, seek cover and move about in order to find more ammo.  

If the trade off for this gameplay benefit is having to make a short detour at the end of an encounter to hit up the stack of clips near the door, then so be it.   


THIS.


I'm not sure what game you played,  but the ME2 I played all you had to do was get out the Sniper rifle and wait for the routine pause every 5 seconds,  aim a half-inch above the enemy,  and 5 seconds later headshot.  For 40 hours straight or so,  excepting the occasional husk or animal.

As far as bad gameplay goes,  ME2 is surpassed as a shooter by most games released in 1999.

I often wonder if people who post here have ever played another shooter.

#111
Ghost-621

Ghost-621
  • Members
  • 1 057 messages

wizardryforever wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Wow, you know what would have been even better than thermal clips? Intelligent AI.

Well the thing is that requires a significant investment from the devs.  Making AI intelligent enough to be a serious threat to someone with bottomless ammo is a serious undertaking.  Thermal clips help make the AI tougher, and Bioware doesn't have to make them practically immune to bullets for them to be challenging.

And the AI is loads better in ME2 anyway, so I don't know what your point was really.


I'm saying the AI sucks in BOTH MEs. You missed my point entirely.

#112
didymos1120

didymos1120
  • Members
  • 14 580 messages

Jorina Leto wrote...

And modding the game is now cheating, because it is a multiplayer game.


Or so you assume.  You can't know if we can mod single-player weapon properties without affecting co-op or not.  You also have no clue as to what sort of anti-cheating measures they'll be using. In any case, I highly doubt they're gonna give a crap about modding that doesn't affect co-op gameplay variables.

#113
Sgt Stryker

Sgt Stryker
  • Members
  • 2 590 messages

Ghost-621 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Wow, you know what would have been even better than thermal clips? Intelligent AI.

Well the thing is that requires a significant investment from the devs.  Making AI intelligent enough to be a serious threat to someone with bottomless ammo is a serious undertaking.  Thermal clips help make the AI tougher, and Bioware doesn't have to make them practically immune to bullets for them to be challenging.

And the AI is loads better in ME2 anyway, so I don't know what your point was really.


I'm saying the AI sucks in BOTH MEs. You missed my point entirely.


If Arrival and the Sur'Kesh previews are at all accurate, that may yet change. Assuming they weren't following pre-scripted paths, of course. If they were, then never mind.

#114
didymos1120

didymos1120
  • Members
  • 14 580 messages

Gatt9 wrote...

 For 40 hours straight or so,  excepting the occasional husk or animal.


Or Vanguard.  Or Harbinger.  Or Scion. Or Praetorian. Or Pyros. Or Geth Prime. Or krogan. Or YMIR.  Or LOKI. Or FENRIS.

#115
wizardryforever

wizardryforever
  • Members
  • 2 826 messages

Ghost-621 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Wow, you know what would have been even better than thermal clips? Intelligent AI.

Well the thing is that requires a significant investment from the devs.  Making AI intelligent enough to be a serious threat to someone with bottomless ammo is a serious undertaking.  Thermal clips help make the AI tougher, and Bioware doesn't have to make them practically immune to bullets for them to be challenging.

And the AI is loads better in ME2 anyway, so I don't know what your point was really.


I'm saying the AI sucks in BOTH MEs. You missed my point entirely.

I don't think I did, honestly.  The devs have so many things that they must juggle, they can't devote the resources it would take to implement a radically better AI.  The AI is definitely not the most robust, sure, but it is far from the worst, even in relatively modern games.

Besides, I think I remember seeing something about AI improvements in ME3, somewhere.

#116
wizardryforever

wizardryforever
  • Members
  • 2 826 messages

didymos1120 wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

 For 40 hours straight or so,  excepting the occasional husk or animal.


Or Vanguard.  Or Harbinger.  Or Scion. Or Praetorian. Or Pyros. Or Geth Prime. Or krogan. Or YMIR.  Or LOKI. Or FENRIS.

Don't forget Geth Hunters and Klixen (those might count as animals though).

#117
onelifecrisis

onelifecrisis
  • Members
  • 2 829 messages

Gatt9 wrote...

As far as bad gameplay goes,  ME2 is surpassed as a shooter by most games released in 1999.

I often wonder if people who post here have ever played another shooter.


Hmm. Well you're kinda asking for it, so off the top of my head, in no particular order...

Doom, Doom 3, Quake, Quake 2, Hexen, Hexen 2, Heretic, Duke Nukem 3D, System Shock 2, Unreal, Unreal 2, Half-Life, Half-Life 2, Deus Ex, Deus Ex: HR, SWAT 4, Call of Duty, Call of Duty 4: MW, Tron 2.0, Painkiller, FEAR, FEAR 2, GRAW 2, Crysis, Crysis 2. I left out hybrids like Battlezone, and I'm sure I forgot a whole bunch, but you get the idea.

I think ME2 plays OK, mostly thanks to the powers. I'd rather play ME2's combat than COD4's SP campaign any day.

#118
onelifecrisis

onelifecrisis
  • Members
  • 2 829 messages

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Wow, you know what would have been even better than thermal clips? Intelligent AI.

Well the thing is that requires a significant investment from the devs.  Making AI intelligent enough to be a serious threat to someone with bottomless ammo is a serious undertaking.  Thermal clips help make the AI tougher, and Bioware doesn't have to make them practically immune to bullets for them to be challenging.

And the AI is loads better in ME2 anyway, so I don't know what your point was really.


I'm saying the AI sucks in BOTH MEs. You missed my point entirely.


If Arrival and the Sur'Kesh previews are at all accurate, that may yet change. Assuming they weren't following pre-scripted paths, of course. If they were, then never mind.


We can hope.

#119
crimzontearz

crimzontearz
  • Members
  • 16 789 messages
I honestly would love for someone to pitch to a soldier a weapon that can virtually shoot forever as long as one does not treat it as a hydrant (and even in that case can shoot again after a small cooldown) versus a weapon that stop shooting if someone stops feeding it thermal clips

seriously.......let's see what a soldier who did a couple of tours thinks about it

#120
RolandX9

RolandX9
  • Members
  • 449 messages

wizardryforever wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Wow, you know what would have been even better than thermal clips? Intelligent AI.

Well the thing is that requires a significant investment from the devs.  Making AI intelligent enough to be a serious threat to someone with bottomless ammo is a serious undertaking.  Thermal clips help make the AI tougher, and Bioware doesn't have to make them practically immune to bullets for them to be challenging.

And the AI is loads better in ME2 anyway, so I don't know what your point was really.

So the solution to dumb enemy AI is...dumb decisions by every single major leader in every army/gang/merc unit in the galaxy? Because making your own life harder is such an intelligent tactical decision.

Fortunately, it's beginning to look like the devs are making that significant investment in ME3. Maybe that overheating sound in the CE trailer means that they'll have other ways to stop you from camping and spraying.

#121
onelifecrisis

onelifecrisis
  • Members
  • 2 829 messages

wizardryforever wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Wow, you know what would have been even better than thermal clips? Intelligent AI.

Well the thing is that requires a significant investment from the devs.  Making AI intelligent enough to be a serious threat to someone with bottomless ammo is a serious undertaking.  Thermal clips help make the AI tougher, and Bioware doesn't have to make them practically immune to bullets for them to be challenging.

And the AI is loads better in ME2 anyway, so I don't know what your point was really.


I'm saying the AI sucks in BOTH MEs. You missed my point entirely.

I don't think I did, honestly.  The devs have so many things that they must juggle, they can't devote the resources it would take to implement a radically better AI.  The AI is definitely not the most robust, sure, but it is far from the worst, even in relatively modern games.

Besides, I think I remember seeing something about AI improvements in ME3, somewhere.


Far from the worst? What games have you been playing?

I really think the AI in the ME games is pretty damned awful. In ME2 it's not quite bad enough to be called "broken" but it's still not even in the same league as most other shooters.

And I think your claim that AI would take vast resources is nonsense. The multiple-award-winning AI in F.E.A.R., for example, was the work of just one dude. And ME2 (and presumably 3) are an AI programmer's dream: static flat environments with specific objects flagged as cover. Nothing like the challenge of, say, Crysis, where enemies can dynamically take cover behind a fallen tree on a hillside or a chunk of the building you just blew up.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 18 novembre 2011 - 09:20 .


#122
Ghost-621

Ghost-621
  • Members
  • 1 057 messages

RolandX9 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Wow, you know what would have been even better than thermal clips? Intelligent AI.

Well the thing is that requires a significant investment from the devs.  Making AI intelligent enough to be a serious threat to someone with bottomless ammo is a serious undertaking.  Thermal clips help make the AI tougher, and Bioware doesn't have to make them practically immune to bullets for them to be challenging.

And the AI is loads better in ME2 anyway, so I don't know what your point was really.

So the solution to dumb enemy AI is...dumb decisions by every single major leader in every army/gang/merc unit in the galaxy? Because making your own life harder is such an intelligent tactical decision.

Fortunately, it's beginning to look like the devs are making that significant investment in ME3. Maybe that overheating sound in the CE trailer means that they'll have other ways to stop you from camping and spraying.


You know, any half-intelligent soldier in my opinion would take the rifle that would shoot forever (and keep it that way with proper modification and controlled fire) as opposed to a weapon that simply stops firing if it runs out of temporary heat sinks. Just my opinion.

Also, I wouldn't say the AI in ME2 is loads better. It takes cover, pops up, pew-pew, pops down. Rinse, repeat. That's it. Not much improvment there.

I sat in one spot in combat during ME2. I only moved after a fight to pick up thermal clips.

#123
Bluko

Bluko
  • Members
  • 1 737 messages
I find it highly amusingly the Devs create an Action Mode (even though no one in my recollection has ever asked for such a thing), but creating an Old School Mode with weapons that function like ME1? Nah...

Look my issues with Thermal Clips isn't that I can't play the game with them or any such thing. It's just the simple reality that I do not find the introduction of ammo "fun" in the series. I know the opposite is true for others. But from what I can tell there are significant amount of people who did like the Overheating Mechanic better. No we are probably not the majority. (I'd wager most people are indifferent to Thermal Clips being introduced rather then being for/against it.) But it is quite aggravating to see all our pleas brushed aside, especially in light of how Thermal Clips have failed to create any better sort of weapon balance.

Personally I'd be happy if there was just even one personal weapon that used a legitimate overheat mechanic you know as a sort of throwback thing. Maybe just a pistol, but hey that's something. Anyways while I doubt Bioware will ever do anything to bring back Overheating Mechanics I do have two suggestions for how Thermal Clips could be better implemented:

1) Individual Shots cannot be perserved from an ejected Thermal Clip

To me the fact that you can eject a clip, yet still retain shots from that clip is silly. Also I'd say it defeats the purpose of reloading altogether. I mean what's the purpose of manual reloads if you keep all your "shots" anyways? Convenience? I thought Thermal Clips were suppose to make the game more challenging/interesting for the player. 

If you eject a Thermal Clip manually you should lose any remaining shots. The only excuse I can see being made against is that it makes the game too hard. Which I find pretty laughable considering what a cake walk ME2 is.

2) Ammo is awarded per Kill

Seriously does anyone like picking up ammo? I mean really? Does anyone really like scrounging  to find ammunition on a regular basis? I don't and it's easily the most tiring feature of shooters.

Having "ammo drops" introduces a number of potential problems. First of all it discourages disposing of enemies by non-conventional means. Yes Bioware did implement a feature so that Thermal Clips jump out of enemies before they fall off a ledge. But this still remains a poor concept as enemies that are out of the player zone cannot re-supply players for spent ammuntion.

I.E. Say there's a level with Snipers on towers that the player cannot reach. Any shots the player expends cannot be re-supplied by them dropping ammo. The only solution to such a problem is to introduce a convenient ammo cache for the player. (And this was exactly how Grunt's mission worked. Gee sure is nice Thermal Clips keep popping out of the ground for me to kill Varren!)

Ammo awarded per kill would be a much better system. I mean so long as you can keep killing your enemies efficiently you don't have to worry about an ammo shortage or  having running out in the open like a complete moron simply to pick up another clip. This would also free up Bioware to include as many enemies as they want in a mission. Since as long as you can keep killing enemies your gun stays filled.

This concept could even be expanded to award more Ammo for more skilled kills. Say you get a Headshot, well then you get  an Extra Clip as a reward for your marksmens abilities. This could also allow a player who has run out of ammo to use Biotics or Tech to get ammunition for the weapons again.

Also the Ammo per Kill still penalizes players with poor accuracy. If you can't hit or kill anything then you don't get any ammo. But on the plus side it is also more player friendly as so long as player kills their enemy, even if they struggle too, they get a re-supply for their efforts.

ME1's Auto-Loot feature for enemies was a nice idea, but poorly implemented via the game's items and inventory. Why not bring a good idea back for an actual useful purpose?

Modifié par Bluko, 19 novembre 2011 - 01:35 .


#124
wizardryforever

wizardryforever
  • Members
  • 2 826 messages

onelifecrisis wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Wow, you know what would have been even better than thermal clips? Intelligent AI.

Well the thing is that requires a significant investment from the devs.  Making AI intelligent enough to be a serious threat to someone with bottomless ammo is a serious undertaking.  Thermal clips help make the AI tougher, and Bioware doesn't have to make them practically immune to bullets for them to be challenging.

And the AI is loads better in ME2 anyway, so I don't know what your point was really.


I'm saying the AI sucks in BOTH MEs. You missed my point entirely.

I don't think I did, honestly.  The devs have so many things that they must juggle, they can't devote the resources it would take to implement a radically better AI.  The AI is definitely not the most robust, sure, but it is far from the worst, even in relatively modern games.

Besides, I think I remember seeing something about AI improvements in ME3, somewhere.


Far from the worst? What games have you been playing?

I really think the AI in the ME games is pretty damned awful. In ME2 it's not quite bad enough to be called "broken" but it's still not even in the same league as most other shooters.

And I think your claim that AI would take vast resources is nonsense. The multiple-award-winning AI in F.E.A.R., for example, was the work of just one dude. And ME2 (and presumably 3) are an AI programmer's dream: static flat environments with specific objects flagged as cover. Nothing like the challenge of, say, Crysis, where enemies can dynamically take cover behind a fallen tree on a hillside or a chunk of the building you just blew up.

I believe I said "games," not "shooters," which are just a relatively small subset of games.  I think you'll find that programming AIs is more difficult than you're making it out to be.  You need to make AIs that would react the way a human would, and that's something that is damned hard to emulate.  We'll never see an AI that can match a smart human in a relatively complex game like this.  When that time comes around, people will have gotten even more whiny about games.  Can't wait for that.  :bandit:

They could take the lazy route and just let the computer cheat, like many RTS's.  Or they could put no effort at all into it and we could have the same "chicken with its head cut off" AI of ME1.  Let's keep this in perspective shall we?

#125
DeathDragon185

DeathDragon185
  • Members
  • 717 messages
YES. so people can stop ****ing