304 réponses à ce sujet

[tetrisblock4x1]

CannonLars wrote...

Bobrzy wrote...

Playing Mass Effect action mode is like playing Need for Speed solely for car tuning. Sure, it's fun, but you miss the most important part.

BioWare doesn't care. They used resources on that feature anyways because they want players who don't care much about the series or what great content they are missing to start buying into it. Those of us who do care are not their priority now because they think we are guaranteed sales that they are entitled to now.

Whatever you say champ. Unqualified opinions and wild conspiracy theories are just another day at BSN. I know little enough myself, but I'm hard pressed to think a of a less credible source of information on game development processes.

[N7Raider]

CannonLars wrote...

Bobrzy wrote...

Playing Mass Effect action mode is like playing Need for Speed solely for car tuning. Sure, it's fun, but you miss the most important part.

BioWare doesn't care. They used resources on that feature anyways because they want players who don't care much about the series or what great content they are missing to start buying into it. Those of us who do care are not their priority now because they think we are guaranteed sales that they are entitled to now.

Bioware doesn't care about us anymore whah whah whah, somebody go get a bottle for the little crying baby.  Are you genuinley that dim to believe that they waisted resources on making dialogue options automatic?  I mean I'm no game developer and I highly doubt you are either, but seriously dude use your brain next time.  

[CannonO]

N7Raider wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Bobrzy wrote...

Playing Mass Effect action mode is like playing Need for Speed solely for car tuning. Sure, it's fun, but you miss the most important part.

BioWare doesn't care. They used resources on that feature anyways because they want players who don't care much about the series or what great content they are missing to start buying into it. Those of us who do care are not their priority now because they think we are guaranteed sales that they are entitled to now.

Bioware doesn't care about us anymore whah whah whah, somebody go get a bottle for the little crying baby.  Are you genuinley that dim to believe that they waisted resources on making dialogue options automatic?  I mean I'm no game developer and I highly doubt you are either, but seriously dude use your brain next time.  

So it is a lazy feature they didn't put effort into?

My comments are overboard because I want response and am voicing amplified concern.

I know deep down they are still making a sequel that they want us to like, but that doesn't mean they aren't changing it and its features so that it appeals to the larger mainstream shooter market. If this were the marketing on some non-scifi new IP, no doubt people would just plain call it a shooter in the general public because that is what the marketing and interviews appeal with now.

[didymos1120]

Dude, it just automatically chooses dialogue. How is that at all a problem?

[N7Raider]

CannonLars wrote...

N7Raider wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Bobrzy wrote...

Playing Mass Effect action mode is like playing Need for Speed solely for car tuning. Sure, it's fun, but you miss the most important part.

BioWare doesn't care. They used resources on that feature anyways because they want players who don't care much about the series or what great content they are missing to start buying into it. Those of us who do care are not their priority now because they think we are guaranteed sales that they are entitled to now.

Bioware doesn't care about us anymore whah whah whah, somebody go get a bottle for the little crying baby.  Are you genuinley that dim to believe that they waisted resources on making dialogue options automatic?  I mean I'm no game developer and I highly doubt you are either, but seriously dude use your brain next time.  

So it is a lazy feature they didn't put effort into?

My comments are overboard because I want response and am voicing amplified concern.

I know deep down they are still making a sequel that they want us to like, but that doesn't mean they aren't changing it and its features so that it appeals to the larger mainstream shooter market. If this were the marketing on some non-scifi new IP, no doubt people would just plain call it a shooter in the general public because that is what the marketing and interviews appeal with now.

Yes it is a lazy feature, in fact it's not even a feature it's more of an OPTION, they did nothing but spike the difficulty so that it would be harder by default, and made dialogue options automated.  Are they trying to appeal to a new audience w/ this sure, but I can not even begin to describe how asinine these arguments are that they "waisted resources" and "abandoned their fanbase" just because they implemented a new OPTION.  They made the game, they did nothing w/ action mode but make dialogue options automated and put it on hardcore or insanity by default.  

[CannonO]

N7Raider wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

N7Raider wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Bobrzy wrote...

Playing Mass Effect action mode is like playing Need for Speed solely for car tuning. Sure, it's fun, but you miss the most important part.

BioWare doesn't care. They used resources on that feature anyways because they want players who don't care much about the series or what great content they are missing to start buying into it. Those of us who do care are not their priority now because they think we are guaranteed sales that they are entitled to now.

Bioware doesn't care about us anymore whah whah whah, somebody go get a bottle for the little crying baby.  Are you genuinley that dim to believe that they waisted resources on making dialogue options automatic?  I mean I'm no game developer and I highly doubt you are either, but seriously dude use your brain next time.  

So it is a lazy feature they didn't put effort into?

My comments are overboard because I want response and am voicing amplified concern.

I know deep down they are still making a sequel that they want us to like, but that doesn't mean they aren't changing it and its features so that it appeals to the larger mainstream shooter market. If this were the marketing on some non-scifi new IP, no doubt people would just plain call it a shooter in the general public because that is what the marketing and interviews appeal with now.

Yes it is a lazy feature, in fact it's not even a feature it's more of an OPTION, they did nothing but spike the difficulty so that it would be harder by default, and made dialogue options automated.  Are they trying to appeal to a new audience w/ this sure, but I can not even begin to describe how asinine these arguments are that they "waisted resources" and "abandoned their fanbase" just because they implemented a new OPTION.  They made the game, they did nothing w/ action mode but make dialogue options automated and put it on hardcore or insanity by default.  

I find the idea of them taking such approaches to get shooter fans plenty discomforting. and I wouldn't go into saying they abandoned their fan base as most of our favorite features are present according to the gathered information so far. I just would say they have neglected us and the potential we found in the original game in exchange of pursuing features that allow a bypass of content that was previously a true part of the experience for their customers, not something they allowed to be split and sold so that people just in it for a short shooting fix could get that piece of this experience. I, personally, don't understand why you would segment such an experience if you had any integrity regarding the original vision and followers.

So did they not even plan out which dialogue options that the story will follow? Are you saying it is a random selection and no one spent any time programming this? I believe this would have required multiple planners to come up with and then execute. This didn't take nothing to implement.

[tetrisblock4x1]

They abandoned their fan base when they made Jade Empire, Mass Effect and DAII.

[N7Raider]

CannonLars wrote...

N7Raider wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

N7Raider wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Bobrzy wrote...

Playing Mass Effect action mode is like playing Need for Speed solely for car tuning. Sure, it's fun, but you miss the most important part.

BioWare doesn't care. They used resources on that feature anyways because they want players who don't care much about the series or what great content they are missing to start buying into it. Those of us who do care are not their priority now because they think we are guaranteed sales that they are entitled to now.

Bioware doesn't care about us anymore whah whah whah, somebody go get a bottle for the little crying baby.  Are you genuinley that dim to believe that they waisted resources on making dialogue options automatic?  I mean I'm no game developer and I highly doubt you are either, but seriously dude use your brain next time.  

So it is a lazy feature they didn't put effort into?

My comments are overboard because I want response and am voicing amplified concern.

I know deep down they are still making a sequel that they want us to like, but that doesn't mean they aren't changing it and its features so that it appeals to the larger mainstream shooter market. If this were the marketing on some non-scifi new IP, no doubt people would just plain call it a shooter in the general public because that is what the marketing and interviews appeal with now.

Yes it is a lazy feature, in fact it's not even a feature it's more of an OPTION, they did nothing but spike the difficulty so that it would be harder by default, and made dialogue options automated.  Are they trying to appeal to a new audience w/ this sure, but I can not even begin to describe how asinine these arguments are that they "waisted resources" and "abandoned their fanbase" just because they implemented a new OPTION.  They made the game, they did nothing w/ action mode but make dialogue options automated and put it on hardcore or insanity by default.  

I find the idea of them taking such approaches to get shooter fans plenty discomforting. and I wouldn't go into saying they abandoned their fan base as most of our favorite features are present according to the gathered information so far. I just would say they have neglected us and the potential we found in the original game in exchange of pursuing features that allow a bypass of content that was previously a true part of the experience for their customers, not something they allowed to be split and sold so that people just in it for a short shooting fix could get that piece of this experience. I, personally, don't understand why you would segment such an experience if you had any integrity regarding the original vision and followers.

So did they not even plan out which dialogue options that the story will follow? Are you saying it is a random selection and no one spent any time programming this? I believe this would have required multiple planners to come up with and then execute. This didn't take nothing to implement.

What part about this don't you understand?  They did nothing with action mode but automate dialouge options and spike difficulty nothing more.  But wait!  According to you simply choosing which dialogue options action mode followed must have consumed massive amounts of time and resources!  Yes I'm sure programming "follow paragon path" and "follow renegade path" must have taken massive amounts of time and effort.
As for them trying to get shooter fans *gasp* how dare they, who do they think they are trying to get new customers?!?  If there trying to get shooter fans means improving combat and adding an action mode OPTION, fine go for it, but frankly you contradicted yourself when you said "most of our favorite features are present" most of our favorite features aren't going to appeal to shooter fans.  

[ItsFreakinJesus]

didymos1120 wrote...

Dude, it just automatically chooses dialogue. How is that at all a problem?

It doesn't.  People just like to complain when things don't conform to their tastes specifically.


I know I'm going to play action mode eventually.  Maybe for my 40th playthrough, but I know I'm going to touch it.

[CannonO]

N7Raider wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

N7Raider wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

N7Raider wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Bobrzy wrote...

Playing Mass Effect action mode is like playing Need for Speed solely for car tuning. Sure, it's fun, but you miss the most important part.

/snip

Bioware doesn't care about us anymore whah whah whah, somebody go get a bottle for the little crying baby.  Are you genuinley that dim to believe that they waisted resources on making dialogue options automatic?  I mean I'm no game developer and I highly doubt you are either, but seriously dude use your brain next time.  

/snip

Yes it is a lazy feature, in fact it's not even a feature it's more of an OPTION, they did nothing but spike the difficulty so that it would be harder by default, and made dialogue options automated.  Are they trying to appeal to a new audience w/ this sure, but I can not even begin to describe how asinine these arguments are that they "waisted resources" and "abandoned their fanbase" just because they implemented a new OPTION.  They made the game, they did nothing w/ action mode but make dialogue options automated and put it on hardcore or insanity by default.  

/snip

What part about this don't you understand?  They did nothing with action mode but automate dialouge options and spike difficulty nothing more.  But wait!  According to you simply choosing which dialogue options action mode followed must have consumed massive amounts of time and resources!  Yes I'm sure programming "follow paragon path" and "follow renegade path" must have taken massive amounts of time and effort.
As for them trying to get shooter fans *gasp* how dare they, who do they think they are trying to get new customers?!?  If there trying to get shooter fans means improving combat and adding an action mode OPTION, fine go for it, but frankly you contradicted yourself when you said "most of our favorite features are present" most of our favorite features aren't going to appeal to shooter fans.  

I didn't say massive amounts of time. But I am sure somebody had to brainstorm and then meet with others about this stuff, then pass it on and plan it out with a programmer, then work out how and which options to follow, then test it. I expect at minimum there was a couple of people dedicated to working on this and testing it out for a while.

Excuse the quote bomb. I am done with quotes.

Modifié par CannonLars, 20 janvier 2012 - 01:32 .

[N7Raider]

Again do you honestly believe they waisted massive resources on this? All they would've been required would be
choice x-paragon
choice y-renegade
choice z-neutral
and then they would simply have to automate them for action mode, they didn't make anything new for it, nobody would've had to have been dedicated to it, they would've only wanted to choose which choices were paragon/renegade/neutral as a team, there's no way anyone was dedicated to only work on this.

[CannonO]

N7Raider wrote...

Again do you honestly believe they waisted massive resources on this? All they would've been required would be
choice x-paragon
choice y-renegade
choice z-neutral
and then they would simply have to automate them for action mode, they didn't make anything new for it, nobody would've had to have been dedicated to it, they would've only wanted to choose which choices were paragon/renegade/neutral as a team, there's no way anyone was dedicated to only work on this.

You don't just spend ten minutes deciding "Hey, this should be in the game... There. I put it in." It isn't that simple to add or remove features in a multimillion dollar franchise. Somebody had to agree when coming up with the idea, somebody had to work with a programmer on considering the routes, somebody had to program it, and tester had to go through it. Right?

[N7Raider]

CannonLars wrote...

N7Raider wrote...

Again do you honestly believe they waisted massive resources on this? All they would've been required would be
choice x-paragon
choice y-renegade
choice z-neutral
and then they would simply have to automate them for action mode, they didn't make anything new for it, nobody would've had to have been dedicated to it, they would've only wanted to choose which choices were paragon/renegade/neutral as a team, there's no way anyone was dedicated to only work on this.

You don't just spend ten minutes deciding "Hey, this should be in the game... There. I put it in." It isn't that simple to add or remove features in a multimillion dollar franchise. Somebody had to agree when coming up with the idea, somebody had to work with a programmer on considering the routes, somebody had to program it, and tester had to go through it. Right?

I'm talking to a brick wall apparently...they didn't add anything, they didn't remove anything, in action mode they only made the choices for you.  You are literally making it seem like they had a dedicated team soley working on the choices for action mode, they would've collaberated as a team to decide which choices were par/ren/neu but you're making it seem like this is a feature the equivalent of co-op.  The only thing they would've had to test would be that the choices were still automated, they wouldn't be testing a completely seperate game.  
And this may have slipped your mind but there are these other OPTIONS called rpg mode and story mode which are exactly like action mode only w/ the choices.

[FFinfinity1]

Well I've played ME2 a good 10 plus times and I've got to tell you that after a while, picking the same dialogue choices gets tedious because I've tried just about ALL of them. When I want to go and run through Mass Effect's action I'll switch on that mode and play it

[CannonO]

This is going nowhere. Neither of us know who is responsible for coming up with the idea, who planned how it would work, who programmed it, who tested it, and how long each person took to get approval and accomplish this. I don't think it was the best use of time nor do I think it has anything to do with actual interested players in their completion of the trilogy.

[tetrisblock4x1]

God forbid that they have options in a ROLE playing game... the horror! Hell, I'd be happy if they took it to the next level and allowed you to go around the game murdering everyone you meet whether they're plot critical or not. Was amusingo after I bored myself from Fallout series by playing so many times. Hell, we have games that have built their fortune on violent mayhem. They're called GTA and Siaints Row, you might have heard of them. And all it takes is to make all the NPCs killable and have them react to it as they normally would to anyone attacking them.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 20 janvier 2012 - 02:06 .

[CannonO]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

God forbid that they have options in a ROLE playing game... the horror! Hell, I'd be happy if they took it to the next level and allowed you to go around the game murdering everyone you meet whether they're plot critical or not. Was amusingo after I bored myself from Fallout series by playing so many times. Hell, we have games that have built their fortune on violent mayhem. They're called GTA and Siaints Row, you might have heard of them.

Action mode makes it so you don't choose. It is a predetermined role that allows you to skip the story exploration, not a progression option.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Yeah, I kind of acknowledged that it wasn't a progression option since I was speaking in a hypothetical context.

The operative word was "if".

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 20 janvier 2012 - 02:09 .

[Merchant2006]

The Messenger of Reason wrote...

The point in Mass Effect was always to go down on random planets and cities and just massacre the mercs and aliens and people with those guns and biotics! I always felt like the long, tedious dialogue scenes were ruining the game and cutting away all the action. I don't understand where the hate comes from for it when I browsed through the forums. I just want to grab my trusty shotgun, and shoot aliens in the face aand occasionally spank Miranda's ass.

Miranddddaaaass butchekkkkkkkkkkkkkk

HNNNNNNNNNNNNNG

...tbh

Modifié par Merchant2006, 20 janvier 2012 - 02:13 .

[Trickybam]

The Messenger of Reason wrote...

The point in Mass Effect was always to go down on random planets and cities and just massacre the mercs and aliens and people with those guns and biotics! I always felt like the long, tedious dialogue scenes were ruining the game and cutting away all the action. I don't understand where the hate comes from for it when I browsed through the forums. I just want to grab my trusty shotgun, and shoot aliens in the face aand occasionally spank Miranda's ass.

YES !

[Fozee]

Oi guys, swap out your thermal clips.

[Gatt9]

didymos1120 wrote...

Dude, it just automatically chooses dialogue. How is that at all a problem?

Dude,  you don't seriously think it's ok to make an RPG where you have a whole mode dedicated to not playing an RPG do you?

How is it not a problem that so much attention is being paid to people who hate RPG's,  that we now design our RPG's for them?

Do you think maybe the NFL should play every game twice?  One with contact and one with flag football,  because you know,  there's alot of people out there who abhor violence.

Never mind the fact that you now have to design the game around a group of people who no longer make decisions.

I put this "Feature" on the same level of stupid that FPS Syndicate is on.  "Jumped the shark" doesn't even cover the level of ridiculousness attained by creating an RPG with a mode where all of the RPG is removed.

But,  On the brightside,  this will be a game remembered in annals of gaming history for certain.  I doubt anyone will ever forget when Bioware released an RPG with a mode that removes all the RPG elements.

Modifié par Gatt9, 20 janvier 2012 - 05:00 .

[didymos1120]

Uh-huh.

[Gatt9]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Darth Asriel wrote...

The day when innonlonger care about dialogue, story, choice, character interactions, and all the things ME was supposed to be about, that's the day I trade in all 3 games. Will never touch that abomination of gameplay

And to the brain dead chimps saying ME was always a shooter, please return to picking fleas off of each other. ME was billed as a RPG TRILOGY from the beginning. Microsoft let them devil the game as they saw fit. EA has bastardized this thing to Hell and back. I hope it was all worth it BW, cause your fans are paying the price with this one.

Just like the real RPG genre has been bastardized to hell and back. Thanks to ignorant cretins like you. ****. Do me a favor and know your history. RPGs, as I knew them bake when they turned it into a genre are dead Mass Effect isn't an RPG, nor is Skyrim, Demon Souls, or Deus Ex. They are action, adventure and third person shooter, they have little in common with what RPGs were when they were invented and so I shall refer to them as their real genre.

Mass Effect = Third Person Shooter with RPG features
Deus Ex = FPS with RPG features
Team Fortress 2 = Multiplayer FPS with RPG features
Skyrim = Adventure with RPG features
Diablo 2  = with RPG features
RPG = turn based gameplay from top down perspective with dice rolls for everything and skill checks for anything you could imagine. Basically any of the olf Fallouts, Temple of Elemental Evil, Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Ultima, Icewind Dale... just to name a few.

While I agree with alot you say,  your definition of an RPG I have a minor issue with.  Specifically,  it need not be turn-based,  so long as the rest of the criteria you list are met.  Or to put it more succinctly,  success and failure are dependent upon the character,  not the player.

As such,  ME was mostly an RPG,  as a great deal of success or failure was Character dependent,  even in shooting to an extent.  ME2 OTOH,  is not,  it's a Third Person Shooter. 

Diablo/Diablo 2 are also largely RPG's,  as success or failure are character dependent.  Sure,  they were monty hauls,  but you can get the exact same thing out of the D&D rulebooks too.

ME3 will not be an RPG.

My litmus test is:  Can I translate this back to Pen and Paper,  which I agree with most of your conclusions.  ME2 and ME3,  they cannot be translated back,  as they all depend on the Player's skill and the character is non-existant.

I'd also largely disagree with your assessment of "RPG features",  as unit progression has long existed in games even prior to the advent of RPG's.  Checkers for example,  achieve an objective and your pieces "Level".  Wargames have also long featured experience modeling.  I'd say just drop the "With RPG features" and just call them their base genre...

Mass Effect 2 = Third Person Shooter
Deus Ex = FPS
Team Fortress 2 = Multiplayer FPS
Skyrim = Adventure