304 réponses à ce sujet

[GMagnum]

any1 else get creep out @ da wikipedia dude always starin @ u on every page som1 donate so his face cn go away im scare omg

[DoNotIngest]

aw man id donate i really wuld but i gave u my last dollar @ da dollar store 2day remeber? we wuz getin da valu paper towles cuz we ran outta bluntz rapz.

[Chuvvy]

Considering Mass Effect has a pretty average combat system, probably.

[Ianamus]

I don't know what I find worse. The fact that Bioware has created these lame marketing devices, or "modes", or that people have actually fallen for them. 

I've seen more than one person say "They've added a RPG mode- so everybody is happy" But all they've actually added is a toggle that removes dialogue. The people who actually like the dialogue and always have get nothing new from these modes, except maybe even worse dialogue since there is not any point in working hard on something that not everybody will use. 

I think a better name for the modes would be: "Mass Effect" mode "Mass Effect with easy difficuty" mode and "Call of Duty fans buy our game!!! it has action!!!" mode.

Maybe people who don't like dialogue just shouldn't buy a dialogue-orientated game in the first place? Maybe there should be a sci fi toggle as well, for people who don't like games set in the future? Or a toggle that let's you fight against the Sith instead of the Reapers, to please Star Wars fans?

There reaches a point where they need to realise that they can't please everyone. And that at the end of day Mass Effect is a third person shooter with good story/characters and dialogue, and that it is the people who like those sort of games who will be buying it. The more they try to broaden the range of the game, the more they loose the people who actually liked the features that are slowly fading away. 

What's next, A toggle that removes squadmates?, or maybe one that removes the story completely, so the game can just be battle after battle with no depth. 


We need to see more dialogue options and important decisions, and more intereesting ones as well, not a toggle that gives you the option of removing them completely. <_<

Modifié par EJ107, 19 novembre 2011 - 02:40 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

slimgrin wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I'm not excited by the context in which it's presented. Bioware has been leaning ever closer to making a simple action game.

If it was an option only after you did the main quest, or a mod, like Flash's for ME2 - which did the same hing, I wouldn't be worried. But again, I'm looking at Bioware's history here.

To me their trajectory is clear: action games make more money than RPG's.

The thing is, with them really going in this direction or not: how will they be able to diferentiate from other developers? The action game genre is more mainstream but at the same time much, much more competitive.

I won't say if they're doing the right thing or not, I don't think it's up to me to judge their design philosophy, only their games. Sales and user feedback should tell them. But I will say that experience from Bethesda sales and Dragon Age 2 should tell them and EA, something.

I have nothing against action or story mode. I'm good with options, options don't actually compromise anything. I think it's actually a good thing that they're offering an easy way to different people find the best option that suit their tastes to better enjoy the game.

Here's the thing. You don't release a mode that gimps the story, you relase a combat/challenge mode that lets players focus on combat. This is what CDPR did with TW2, and it was exactly the right move.

Bioware is continually blurring genre's with the intent of making a pure cinematic/action game. 

It's a mode/option that you can choose to gimp the story or not. Bioware isn't forcing anything in this situation, they aren't changing anything on the main game design with that. It's a decision up to the player.
I don't understand the relationship between this and the example you gave. Actually, their multiplayer coop is something very close to the arena mode. RPG-Action-Story mode is more closed to, let's say "auto level up: on/off". Did it matter that much back there?
Blurring genres won't matter for them in the end if the game is generally well received by consumers and pleases EA by being a multi million seller.
I don't think they care if the game is labeled as an RPG anymore as long as people like it. Hell, not even all games Bioware released were RPGs, and for the record I don't think their next IP is one.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 19 novembre 2011 - 02:53 .

[SkittlesKat96]

The Messenger of Reason wrote...

The point in Mass Effect was always to go down on random planets and cities and just massacre the mercs and aliens and people with those guns and biotics! I always felt like the long, tedious dialogue scenes were ruining the game and cutting away all the action. I don't understand where the hate comes from for it when I browsed through the forums. I just want to grab my trusty shotgun, and shoot aliens in the face aand occasionally spank Miranda's ass.

Lol, nice satire.

EDIT: Assuming this thread is satire...I hope OP isn't for serious...

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 19 novembre 2011 - 03:02 .

[Ianamus]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

It's a mode/option that you can choose to gimp the story or not. Bioware isn't forcing anything in this situation, they aren't changing anything on the main game design with that. It's a decision up to the player.

This Logic is compltely flawed. Money and development time are both limited, and the way it is spent is important. 

"You can't complain about the new character Vega taking the spotlight, using him is optional!"

"You can't complain about multiplayer! It's optional!"

"You can't complain about the mode that removes dialogue! It's optional!"

But all of that time that could have been spent developing existing characters, improving dialogue and choices, and adding stuff to the single-player game. But all of it has been spent developing these features to try to persuade new people to buy the game. 

Instead of spending time making new dialogue options, they've spent that time created the option to remove them!

Look at their statements about the previous games:

"Mass Effect 3 is the best place to jump in!" 

"Don't worry about all those romance options! It's war! who cares!" 

It's like they don't care at all for the people who played and loved Mass Effect 1/ Mass Effect 2. It seems that all they care about are how much of Call of Duty and Modern Warfare's playerbase they can wrangle in.

I dont honestly give a **** how optional these things are. They have all wasted time and resources that could have been spent making the core single-player experience that many people bought these games for. 

Modifié par EJ107, 19 novembre 2011 - 03:10 .

[Ruthac_Arus]

I don't mind the option being there. Good for testing, good for trying out other class capabilities, getting players like the topic creator to buy the game, running through the story at a quick pace (as limited as that's likely to be, if choices are all automated), etc.

That said, I'm *never* touching Action Mode. It's merely an option, and as long as it isn't directly affecting the other modes, I have very little reason to care about it.

[KainrycKarr]

The attitude is what bothers me. The more we see this attitude, the less it becomes an "option" and becomes a staple.

If Bioware/EA begins to get the impression that the majority of their customers/fans want less dialogue, story, and rpg elements, and more action, then they will focus less and less on rpg/character customization type stuff, until eventually it's as linear and rail-roaded as Call of Duty or other games.

It isn't there yet, not even close, but the difference between ME1 and 3, and the inclusion of the "action" mode, while I don't think it will ruin ME3, does NOT bode well for the motivation behind future bioware games.

I'd love to be completely wrong about this, four or five years down the line though. coughcougbiowaredontletmedowncoughcough.

[firefireblow]

Yea I'm so happy that they took fantasy out of my fantasy game, I mean come on how usless is that. I mean what els can I play that only has action in it.

[Swampthing500]

KainrycKarr wrote...

The attitude is what bothers me. The more we see this attitude, the less it becomes an "option" and becomes a staple.

If Bioware/EA begins to get the impression that the majority of their customers/fans want less dialogue, story, and rpg elements, and more action, then they will focus less and less on rpg/character customization type stuff, until eventually it's as linear and rail-roaded as Call of Duty or other games.

It isn't there yet, not even close, but the difference between ME1 and 3, and the inclusion of the "action" mode, while I don't think it will ruin ME3, does NOT bode well for the motivation behind future bioware games.

I'd love to be completely wrong about this, four or five years down the line though. coughcougbiowaredontletmedowncoughcough.

Bioware no longer has a say in the matter. They are slaves, bound employees of the EA imperial council. EA has seen where the money is. Take out interactive dialogue? Bioware shall comply. Remove class choices? Bioware shall comply. Turn the game into a CoD-clone with a single, linear path? Bioware shall comply.

It is Origin all over again. A creative company is acquired, made to conform, gutted and disbanded. Bioware shall soon be dead.

[Neow]

Action mode will be cool when I'm doing multiple playthroughs just to experience the combat with different classes. In ME2 I basically start skipping all the dialogs on my 3rd or 4th playthroughs.

[RiouHotaru]

EJ107 wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

It's a mode/option that you can choose to gimp the story or not. Bioware isn't forcing anything in this situation, they aren't changing anything on the main game design with that. It's a decision up to the player.

This Logic is compltely flawed. Money and development time are both limited, and the way it is spent is important. 

"You can't complain about the new character Vega taking the spotlight, using him is optional!"

"You can't complain about multiplayer! It's optional!"

"You can't complain about the mode that removes dialogue! It's optional!"

But all of that time that could have been spent developing existing characters, improving dialogue and choices, and adding stuff to the single-player game. But all of it has been spent developing these features to try to persuade new people to buy the game. 

Instead of spending time making new dialogue options, they've spent that time created the option to remove them!

Look at their statements about the previous games:

"Mass Effect 3 is the best place to jump in!" 

"Don't worry about all those romance options! It's war! who cares!" 

It's like they don't care at all for the people who played and loved Mass Effect 1/ Mass Effect 2. It seems that all they care about are how much of Call of Duty and Modern Warfare's playerbase they can wrangle in.

I dont honestly give a **** how optional these things are. They have all wasted time and resources that could have been spent making the core single-player experience that many people bought these games for. 

Are we really using the "making the different modes takes resources argument"?  AGAIN?  This has been debunked so many times over that I swear you're just repeating the sentence because it's a buzzword phrase and you think if you use it enough it'll be right.  So I'll lay it out for you:

- MP Mode was developed by another branch of Bioware, NOT the one currently working on ME3.  It's highly likely they're not using the same budget for both.

- Adding new characters doesn't keep them from developing old ones.

- The Mode options, as has been stated by NUMEROUS people in other threads, takes but a few lines of code that any decent programmer could whip up in a few minutes on their coffee break.  It's basically a script trigger that keeps lines of dialog from being played or automates the dialog selection triggers, all of which are present and accounted for.  No resources were diverted away from the main campaign to account for a few lines of code!  Lines of dialog are not REMOVED, they're SUPRESSED.

Did anyone miss Didy's numerous postings of cut dialog lines that can be reactivated simply by applying the right triggers.  Dialog wasn't removed, the triggers to activate it were removed or changed!

As for the whole "ME3 is a great place to jump in!" That's just a marketing line saying that "If you haven't played 1 or 2, playing 3 won't leave you choking on the story's dust because you don't understand half the references to the prior installments."

Stop trying to use that line to claim the game will suck.  It's exactly like the folks who claim the "CoD Audience" line means something bad.  It's only bad when taken OUT OF CONTEXT.

[Iakus]

An rpg without dialogue or story is an utter waste of time to me. So no, action mode will never see the light of day with me.

[RiouHotaru]

OKAY

Guys, answer this question:

How does a mode, which in NO way inhibits or prevents you from playing the game in the style that you prefer, mean that Bioware is finished.

Remember! It's been established that the mode options take almost no resources or time to create, and that dialog is not cut out to make room for these options, so using these arguments no longer works.

So then tell me, how does the option of a game mode diminish your experience?

[Swampthing500]

RiouHotaru wrote...

OKAY

Guys, answer this question:

How does a mode, which in NO way inhibits or prevents you from playing the game in the style that you prefer, mean that Bioware is finished.

Remember! It's been established that the mode options take almost no resources or time to create, and that dialog is not cut out to make room for these options, so using these arguments no longer works.

So then tell me, how does the option of a game mode diminish your experience?

Bioware is no longer independent and geared towards making quality RPGs. It is owned by EA now and will be subject to the whims of their corporate masters.

Once the EA executives find out that their new CoD-Damaged audience mostly plays "action" mode, the scent of money will over-power them and they will compel Bioware to further "stream-line" their future titles by removing choice, simplifying combat and making the story fixed and linear.

EA will also insist on churning out numerous, derivative games every year in order to exploit their IPs as much as possible. Under pressure from longer working hours, shorter development times and top-down mandates, the original creative staff will either be fired or forced to quit. Eventually Bioware will be an empty shell, its remains being consumed so that EA may continue to defecate more games.

Modifié par Swampthing500, 19 novembre 2011 - 05:55 .

[KainrycKarr]

RiouHotaru wrote...

OKAY

Guys, answer this question:

How does a mode, which in NO way inhibits or prevents you from playing the game in the style that you prefer, mean that Bioware is finished.

Remember! It's been established that the mode options take almost no resources or time to create, and that dialog is not cut out to make room for these options, so using these arguments no longer works.

So then tell me, how does the option of a game mode diminish your experience?

I did answer it. It's even on the same page.

Mass Effect 3 might survive and still be a great semi-RPG, but if you read my post, you'll see why ME3 might very well be the last Bioware game I purchase.

[darthnick427]

Yes you are one of the few. I played Mass Effect because it was an RPG as do most of the players. Most enjoy the rich dialog system. But if you are excited for Action mode, more power to ya. It shows bioware is trying to make everyone happy. I personally will stick to the RPG mode myself tho.

[Inspectre]

EJ107 wrote...

There reaches a point where they need to realise that they can't please everyone. And that at the end of day Mass Effect is a third person shooter with good story/characters and dialogue, and that it is the people who like those sort of games who will be buying it. The more they try to broaden the range of the game, the more they loose the people who actually liked the features that are slowly fading away.

If alienating an old fan gets two new ones, it would be stupid not to.
The point about the toggle is to help hold on to old fans as Mass Effect makes a transition, from TPS/RPG to TPS.
Which I'm just guessing will happen, of course.


Also, I've always hated ME/2s gameplay.  If I want to play Gears of War, I'll play Gears of War; no time for cheap knockoffs.

Always loved MEs story/characters/dialogue tho...

Modifié par Dragon XIX, 19 novembre 2011 - 07:23 .

[Slayer299]

@Dragon XIX - No, alienating an old fan for two new is stupid because you're still losing people and this time intentionally, by that logic in essence BW is shooting themselves in the foot.

[Shad Croly]

I'm definitely going to try it out. I'm planning on having 3 Shepards... two are basically the same, save for different classes, but the third will be a start-from-ME3-in-Action-Mode Shepard.

If the word is true, and you will lose the war if you try and do a full Paragon or Renegade run, then I really hope Action Mode gives you the mix of Paragon and Renegade choices you need to get at least the good ending, if not the perfect ending.

[StephanieBengal]

I'll give it a try after a few times of playing RPG mode.