43 réponses à ce sujet

[Goph]

Valygar has always been my favorite NPC, but I've only actually played fighters, so I'd like to try a Ranger for my next run.  I'm mostly asking about the build now (I'm still finishing up my current game), but any tips on how to actually play the character are also welcome.

Since this is my first Ranger experience, I'm going to play a basic human ranger, not a kit.  This is not something I need advice on.

I'm not sure about abilities, especially wisdom.  I know the minimum wisdom is 14, but is there any advantage to building it up past that?

For proficiencies, I'm thinking I'll go ahead and give the third dot to two-handed weapon style, two to axes since you get good axes early, two to scimitar since I'll be using Belm anyway, and then the last one to war hammer with plans to use crom faeyr at the end.

Thanks in advance for any advice . . .

[AnonymousHero]

Usually there's very little point in putting proficiencies into an off-hand weapon type. You'll only hit once per round (twice with Imp. Haste) with that weapon anyway. Better to put the pips into weapons which are useful to switch between on the main hand. (Though I suppose ranger probably has more than enough proficiency points to go round?)

[Grond0]

Rangers don't get bonus spells, so there's no real benefit to high wisdom unless you want this for RP reasons.

[Alesia_BH]

Just a few comments on build for now...

When I did my solo Stalker, Ashoka, in the No Reload Challenge, I gave her proficiency in Staves. I tend to do that with all my characters, but I especially liked doing it with her due to the Elemental Staffs- they went along with the nature theme.

Of her three weapon style setups (Two-Handed, Sword and Board, and Dual Wielding) she arguably got the most mileage out of the first two, but they each had their specific tactical roles to play. An unkitted party Ranger (as opposed to a solo Stalker) would likely find dual-wielding more helpful in the early-mid game then it was for Ashoka.

As for dual-wielding, the setups she used most were Kachiko's +Belm, Fury + Belm and Ages + Defender. The Ages + Defender setup was the more helpful in tough fights whereas the Kachiko's + Belm, Fury + Belm ones tended to be for fun and style. You miss out on an extra attack or two with the Ages + Defender arrangement but the attacks you "steal" from enemies with the Slow effect and the damage resistances can more than make up for it.

I'd more than be happy to discuss tactics later on. I find that more interesting than build talk.

Enjoy!

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 19 novembre 2011 - 11:02 .

[morbidest2]

Something else to think about is whether at some point you want to convert to Ranger/Cleric which is one of the best muscle/magic combos for a PC. If you decide to go this way, then more wisdom makes sense.

[Goph]

Thanks for all replies. Since I can't advance proficiencies past 2 pips, it seemed like there were plenty to go around, but maybe Flail would be a better use. It's good to know that more points in wisdom is not helpful for a straight ranger, since that is most likely what I will play. If I did want to dual to Cleric later, would I want/need to go ahead and max wisdom out? Is there a 'best' level to flip over to cleric?

[morbidest2]

Since an R/C is basically just a cleric with improved fighting skills, you want to do it fairly early - like lev. 9 - so that you don't spend most of SoA as a puny, low level cleric that the rest of the party has to cover for. Wis=16 would probably work fine. One thing to keep in mind for R/C is that your best choice for ranged weapon skill is sling or throwing hammer.

[Goph]

I don't usually bother with ranged weapons for my PC. I normally keep Azuredge around just in case, but I never really use it . . .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

morbidest2 wrote...
Since an R/C is basically just a cleric with improved fighting skills,

It's a melee powerhouse.
Dualclassing at level 9 is fine - but don't underestimate what the combination of warrior fighting prowess and clerical self-buffing can do.

Wis=16 would probably work fine.

Except you can't dualclass to cleric with Wisdom 16.
17 being the minimum (and 18 being the maximum) you don't have all that much of a choice. Going with 18 will give you 1 extra level 4 spell per day.

Of course, the game has numerous points at which to improve your wisdom. Starting in BG1, it's possible to go from 18 to 21 before reaching BG2 (+ 1 point at the end of SoA and another point in Watcher's Keep*) for a permanent 23.
(advantage of wis23 over wis18: 1 level 1 spell, 1 level 2 spell, 1 level 3 spell, 3 level 4 spells, 4 level 5 spells)

If you really plan on turning into a cleric with improved combat abilities, improving your wisdom at every opportunity is a good idea.

One thing to keep in mind for R/C is that your best choice for ranged weapon skill is sling or throwing hammer.

If it's a sling, it's got to be the Sling of Seeking of course.

* In theory the Deck of Many Things might be used for another point of wisdom, but firstly you need to reload quite a few times for the right result and secondly (to my knowledge) warrior multi- or dualclasses get a strength improvement (rather than wisdom).

[PicklePepperPiper]

Also, bear in mind you can't use axes in a R/C build.
-PPP

[Goph]

True. Still not sure if I'm going that route. I'm actually carrying my current game into ToB atm, just because I've never done it before and I want to see what it's like. I've heard it gets pretty stale pretty fast, so I imagine I'll start this ranger fairly soon . . .

[morbidest2]

Since you said that your PC will be a human, front line fighter who doesn't worry much about ranged weapons, perhaps another issue to consider is how to maximize dexterity so that your inferior armor (until you kill a few dragons) doesn't keep handicapping you. First cut charisma to the bone, then think about joining Minsc's intellectual company. That way Boo will have two people he can always beat in Tic-Tac-Toe tournaments.   

Modifié par morbidest2, 20 novembre 2011 - 12:19 .

[ussnorway]

I always dual early (level 2 normally) with R/C builds but I play him as an offensive caster and not as the divine equivalent of a melee F/M... it's just a play style thing.

Modifié par ussnorway, 20 novembre 2011 - 01:33 .

[Goph]

I'll definitely max Str, Dex and Con at character creation, so the only difference from my usual fighter build would be a higher Wis and lower Int. I'll still want Int at 6 at least though, for the mind flayers. But for the AC issue, a Ranger shouldn't be much worse than my current Kensai, should he?

The trouble with dualing to cleric seems to be that I'll need to dual pretty much as soon as I start the game, so I'll get very little playtime as a pure ranger.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

A normal ranger can wear full plate mail, so I don't know what morbidest2 meant with "inferior armor". (possibly thinking of the stalker kit?)

[Ecoris]

Why not make it a multiclass R/C?

[morbidest2]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

A normal ranger can wear full plate mail, so I don't know what morbidest2 meant with "inferior armor". (possibly thinking of the stalker kit?)

Oops!  I blundered for 2 reasons. First I figure that if you want to be a pure ranger and have no interest in bows or other ranged weapons, then Stealth must be important to you and stealth and metal armor don't mix well. Secondly, I usually use NPC level 1 to have Minsc as a Beserker - so that he can use the battle bonus without trying to wipe out his own party afterwards -  and to me Minsc rather than Aragorn is the prototype RANGER!
Sorry   

[morbidest2]

Ecoris wrote...

Why not make it a multiclass R/C?

Doesn't this push you towards going small party or Solo?
For the hades of it I once did a multi R/C in a party of six at Core difficulty, and doing every practically every sidequest in SoA/ToB I wound up with only a level 21 Cleric/ level 18 Ranger with only 2 lev. 7 clerical spells and 10 HLA fighting bonuses before going off to meet Amelyssen. Not bad, but not outstanding either.
Personally I would rather have a whole pocketful of elementals and devas OR mucho GWW and Hardiness, rather than a little of each.  

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Shouldn't the RC get 3 more HLAs in total than the pure ranger though (20 with 8M XP as opposed to 17)?
I haven't checked thoroughly (planning on going to sleep in a few minutes, rather tired), but I think you shouldn't have any disadvantages in terms of HLAs at any stage of the game by going multi (in fact, didn't the multi get their first HLA long before reaching 3M XP on account of a bug?)

Of course, since the OP wants to go ranger, not ranger/cleric (dual OR multi), the discussion is rather pointless.

[morbidest2]

I agree the discussion is academic, but sometimes I find useful little nuggets of info. in this type of discussion even after having played the game for years. Both runs were at Core with parties of 6 and the Mods were few: things like the Nalia romance and Longer Road. Nothing like Ascension or Tactics. Only SoA , WK and ToB, not BG1 in either Run

The human Ranger was at Lev. 29 just before the very last battle with Amel, had 6.49M XPs, and had 13 UNUSED HLAs. Nalia had a Wish left and I tried resting the group, but in 4 trys I couldn't get the Djinn to Rest the group to see if the HLA total was actually bigger than 13.

The half-elf multi Ranger/Cleric was R18/C21 with aTOTAL of 6.14M XP's after the 5th Ring, was rested and had 10 HLAs + 2 lev. 7 clerical spells (each of which I would consider is worth more than an HLA). During the 6 battles at the throne of Bhaal I would think that the R/C would have gained at least a few hundred thousand more XPs

The conclusions I remember coming away with was that I would have preferred to be a fighter or swashbuckler rather than a ranger (dragon as a racial enemy not withstanding) and that while the R/C was easy to play, Anomen had to do most of the undead work and eventually  had many more devas and elementals on call.

I agree that the R/C would be the better choice in a party of four and in a solo run the R/C is the only way to go.

Modifié par morbidest2, 22 novembre 2011 - 12:12 .

[Ecoris]

@ H_T
There is a bug, yes; a R/C gets HLAs from the cleric half from level 13, and from the ranger half from level 15. The two levels should be reversed. I can't remember whether you get to choose from both pools all the time, but the total number of HLAs will be correct eventually.

Edit: And I agree that a class as XP intensive as this one does not come to its full right in a five or six person party.

Modifié par Ecoris, 22 novembre 2011 - 11:11 .

[Goph]

I don't at all mind the digression, because I know this information will be helpful to me in the future, but I'm still playing through ToB and I'm starting to think maybe I'd like to try this next game without Valygar. He's still my favorite NPC, other than maybe Imoen, but his armor limitations seem to be getting him killed a lot, and really, why would I need two rangers?

OTOH, he's dealing out a lot more damage than Keldorn manages, and maybe I'm not ready for the loss of all that offense.

So my question is, assuming I'm sticking to the idea of the straight ranger, with no dualing or multiclassing, how much would it ramp up my difficulty to try a game with just Keldorn, Aerie and Nalia/Imoen . . ?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

That's a pretty powerful team, if played correctly.

If Valygar dies too much for your liking, make use of his casting abilities and combine the Hardiness HLA with his Armor of Faith spell.

[morbidest2]

Goph wrote...

So my question is, assuming I'm sticking to the idea of the straight ranger, with no dualing or multiclassing, how much would it ramp up my difficulty to try a game with just Keldorn, Aerie and Nalia/Imoen . . ?

would you consider using Anomen instead of Aerie? Through SoA you will be light on healing and undead with Aerie, though by ToB she's pretty strong. You still will have an all   group once Annoyingman finishes his subquest successfully and gets his knighthood.

[Goph]

I think my tendency for tank-style battle plans is also contributing to Valygar's frequent demises. I really need to get over that. I was getting Keldorn killed a lot last game, but that was more early on, and this time Valygar didn't start dying until late in ToB, which I hadn't played through before this run.

I know Aerie's probably the weakest cleric, I like her character, and that's more how I pick my NPCs. I'll probably ditch her eventually in favor of some sort of dualed cleric PC, or perhaps use the level 1 NPCs thing to make her a straight cleric at some point, but probably not this next run.

Thanks again for all advice, as always . . .