148 réponses à ce sujet

[Eilaras]

 I think the important elves from DA2 looks great (Fenris, Merrill, Orsino, Athenril, Marethari) The others are ugly as hell. If Bioware can do the same amount of effort with all the elves in Dragon age 3, i prefer this look. Maybe a mix between the two. Not as human as in Origins, not as ugly as in DA2.

[Tom12]

greed89 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

DA2's elves look like the bastard offspring of a Warden who had too much to drink and spent the night with a goat. Here's a real elf.

So just a Dude with Pointy ears?

nothanks

OMG! i sometimes cant believe how dumb some people can be. How can you say *just a dude with
pointy ears !?*You certainly dont know what an elf is. elves are described to
be more beautiful then humans, immortal,sense for magic, intelligent, immune to
diseases, etc.. so elves were imagined to be better humans and i wouldnt call a giraffe or a goat
beautiful or a better human in that matter. it doesnt even make sense to call a
goat like being an elf, they dont deserve it!... we have the qunari which already look a bit different... wouldnt like a fugly alien elf *which we already have* which just looks so ugly just because their goal was to make them more *unique* if thats all that matters to them they should just make their clothing more unique.Both dao and da2 had horrible elves i am not picking sides (but da2 elves was a really big step backwards imo) they still have to work on it. they should just let the elves look beautiful like they should be.They should look at the elves from tw2 they had real elves!
ps: iorweth is such a hottie  i had to defend him 

Modifié par Tom12, 21 novembre 2011 - 05:53 .

[esper]

Tom12 wrote...

greed89 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

DA2's elves look like the bastard offspring of a Warden who had too much to drink and spent the night with a goat. Here's a real elf.

So just a Dude with Pointy ears?

nothanks

OMG! i sometimes
cant believe how dumb some people can be. How can you say *just a dude with
pointy ears !?*You certainly dont know what an elf is. elves are described to
be more beautiful then humans, immortal,sense for magic, intelligent, immune to
diseases, etc.. so elves were imagined to be better humans and i wouldnt call a giraffe or a goat
beautiful or a better human in that matter. it doesnt even make sense to call a
goat like being an elf, they dont deserve it!... we have the qunari which already look a bit different... wouldnt like a fugly alien elf *which we already have* which just looks so ugly just because their goal was to make them more *unique* if
thats all that matters to them they should just make their clothing more unique.Both dao and da2 had horrible elves i am not picking sides they still have to work on it. they should just let the elves look beautiful like they should be.They should look at the elves from tw2 they had real elves!ps: iorweth is such a hottie  i had to defend him 

No the elf you describe is a tolkien elf which he created by taking some folklore and the adjusting it to fit his story. The immune to diseases is from a roleplaying system (don't remember which) which again has nothing to do with the folklore.

I might as well claim that elves are evil, alluring creatures that lure (preferably young) people into their hills where the trap them in dance and song untill they forget who they are (or other terrible fates). Also the women elves dissaper when turning their back on humans because they have a hollow back.

Bioware esthablish what a true elf is in their universe and it is perfectly allowed, just as the authour of twillingt is allowed to say that vampires shine like the sun. I personally don't like shining vampiries, but that's the law in her universe. I like the da3 elves as they don't just look like small people with pointy ears as for the next fantasy universe bioware creates, I would like them to stop putting dwarves underground... and make them drunk all the time. I am so relieved for getting rid of Oghren.  

[Augustei]

out of all the types of elves I have witnessed in fantasy settings over the ages... Dragon Age II's have to be the worst looking ones I've seen lol =P

[Monica83]

Those elves paint them in green and they are just goblins

[Aaleel]

Another thing I hated about what BIoware did in DA2, was that they tried to make the races look unique, but when it came to main characters, they made them look more like human. Merrill and Fenris look different from the other elves, and the only reason you know Varric is a dwarf is because he's short.

It amazes me that people complain about elves in DA:O being just shorter humans, but give a pass on this. Never hear about it.

[mya11]

The look of elves in dragon age 2 is very horrible :sick:

The proportions of body is horrible !!  I don't like too the cartoonesque and when you see the
relooking of Alistair or Zevran oh my god it's no possible.

It's my opinion, and I hope for dragon age 3 we don't have again this look horrible please

[Monica83]

Some people just use pr talking over and over again to defend theyr games.. words like "just humans with pointy ears" or " now they look distinct" are word used by the team...

Fenris on my opinion dosn't look good at all it reminds me an anime character and since i think have also a clownish look... Merril looks a little better but not beautyfull at all when i seen the scene of her in the bed with hawke i was something like shocked.. Her body is just horrible and this giraffe neck with her anorexic shape just bleach

[Tom12]

esper wrote...

No the elf you describe is a tolkien elf which he created by taking some folklore and the adjusting it to fit his story. The immune to diseases is from a roleplaying system (don't remember which) which again has nothing to do with the folklore.

I might as well claim that elves are evil, alluring creatures that lure (preferably young) people into their hills where the trap them in dance and song untill they forget who they are (or other terrible fates). Also the women elves dissaper when turning their back on humans because they have a hollow back.

Bioware esthablish what a true elf is in their universe and it is perfectly allowed, just as the authour of twillingt is allowed to say that vampires shine like the sun. I personally don't like shining vampiries, but that's the law in her universe. I like the da3 elves as they don't just look like small people with pointy ears as for the next fantasy universe bioware creates, I would like them to stop putting dwarves underground... and make them drunk all the time. I am so relieved for getting rid of Oghren.  

i didnt meant the tolkien elves, i meant the original elves from the germanic folklore they were the first elves and were ment to be better humans. thats why many fantasy games,movies etc... still claim them to be beautiful and being magical beings and so on. Bioware has the freedom to make whatever they want, i know that but i think its just odd to call something that ugly an elf it just doesnt fit.The only thing that they have kept is that they have their pointy ears . Its the same as if they would make a race which is bigger then a qunari and call it a dwarf it just doesnt fit. I really liked the elves from dao and how their place in the da universe was so much different then in other games.They were already different back then and they also didnt looked pretty back then but it didnt bothered me until the da2 elves they just look so ugly that it hurts. its just like choose between beautiful and ugly, you would of course go for the first one wouldnt you? who wants something ugly instead of something pretty  thats why i dont understand why the elves from da2 have to look that bad. most of them walk like they have diarrhea! it just bothers me so much

Modifié par Tom12, 21 novembre 2011 - 06:36 .

[casadechrisso]

esper wrote...

No the elf you describe is a tolkien elf which he created by taking some folklore and the adjusting it to fit his story. The immune to diseases is from a roleplaying system (don't remember which) which again has nothing to do with the folklore.

I might as well claim that elves are evil, alluring creatures that lure (preferably young) people into their hills where the trap them in dance and song untill they forget who they are (or other terrible fates). Also the women elves dissaper when turning their back on humans because they have a hollow back.

Bioware esthablish what a true elf is in their universe and it is perfectly allowed, just as the authour of twillingt is allowed to say that vampires shine like the sun. I personally don't like shining vampiries, but that's the law in her universe. I like the da3 elves as they don't just look like small people with pointy ears as for the next fantasy universe bioware creates, I would like them to stop putting dwarves underground... and make them drunk all the time. I am so relieved for getting rid of Oghren.  

Thank you so much for typing that up for me, saved me a lot of time. We could also mention that in the only country that still officially has them as citizens, elves live under stones and pebbles. 
Personally, I was already delighted to see Bioware breaking the Tolkien rules with the city elves, just like I'm always happy to see something that is not directly copied from LOTR.

As for the looks, I do like the general idea of DA2 elves, and the few NPCs that were actually made with care look just fine (mainly some at the Dalish camp). But just like with all NPCs, no matter if elf or human or whatever,  Bioware decided to make a lot of them look just plain ugly.

Edit after reading some posts above again: Fenris is of course a special case, worst character ever and as said above, just  an anime character for the kids used to JPRGs. I hate him with a passion.

Modifié par casadechrisso, 21 novembre 2011 - 06:39 .

[Persephone]

Monica83 wrote...

Those elves paint them in green and they are just goblins

You've never seen a goblin in ANY setting before, haven't you?

*Headdesk at the hyperbole*

[casadechrisso]

Tom12 wrote...

i didnt meant the tolkien elves, i meant the original elves from the germanic folklore they were the first elves and were ment to be better humans.

Actually, in our folklore elves are mostly portrayed as evil or at least shady creatures, closer to succubi and incubi than to beautiful better humans. In folk stories they usually steal children and replace them with changelings and generally trick humans. The beautiful elf from the movies is mainly a Tolkien invention.

[Tom12]

casadechrisso wrote...

Tom12 wrote...

i didnt meant the tolkien elves, i meant the original elves from the germanic folklore they were the first elves and were ment to be better humans.

Actually, in our folklore elves are mostly portrayed as evil or at least shady creatures, closer to succubi and incubi than to beautiful better humans. In folk stories they usually steal children and replace them with changelings and generally trick humans. The beautiful elf from the movies is mainly a Tolkien invention.

hmm as far as i know that the idea of those elves (those small evil ones:P lol ) came after the germans idea about elves... here is an article that i read on wiki  
the link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves 

[esper]

Tom12 wrote...

esper wrote...

No the elf you describe is a tolkien elf which he created by taking some folklore and the adjusting it to fit his story. The immune to diseases is from a roleplaying system (don't remember which) which again has nothing to do with the folklore.

I might as well claim that elves are evil, alluring creatures that lure (preferably young) people into their hills where the trap them in dance and song untill they forget who they are (or other terrible fates). Also the women elves dissaper when turning their back on humans because they have a hollow back.

Bioware esthablish what a true elf is in their universe and it is perfectly allowed, just as the authour of twillingt is allowed to say that vampires shine like the sun. I personally don't like shining vampiries, but that's the law in her universe. I like the da3 elves as they don't just look like small people with pointy ears as for the next fantasy universe bioware creates, I would like them to stop putting dwarves underground... and make them drunk all the time. I am so relieved for getting rid of Oghren.  

i didnt meant the tolkien elves, i meant the original elves from the germanic folklore they were the first elves and were ment to be the better humans. thats why many fantasy games,movies etc... still claim them to be beautiful and being magical beings and so on. Bioware has the freedom to make whatever they want, i know that but i think its just odd to call something that ugly an elf it just doesnt fit.The only thing that they have kept is that they have their pointy ears . Its the same as if they would make a race which is bigger then a qunari and call it a dwarf it just doesnt fit. I really liked the elves from dao and how their place in the da universe was so much different then in other games.They were already different back then and they also didnt looked pretty back then but it didnt bothered me until the da2 elves they just look so ugly that it hurts. its just like choose between beautiful and ugly, you would of course go for the first one wouldnt you? who wants something ugly instead of something pretty  thats why i dont understand why the elves from da2 have to look that bad. most of them walk like they have diarrhea it bothers me so much

No they weren't. at least not in scandinavian mythologi which I doubt is so different from german) Beutifull, perhaps... because in most fairy tales were they were involved in they are luring people in, so one most assume tha they are not ugly. But they were never described as perfect people, they are something mysterious and playfull at best, but sinister mostly. Tolkien took the beutifull thing and the association with nature and the supernaturell and somehow made them to superior beings.
The pointy ear thing is an english thing... I don't know where they got it from, but a lot of english fairy tales creatures are pictured with them.
Also the elves had never had the mysterious and superiority thing going for them in da. The dalish tries, but they aren't suceeding in it very well. I can respect you not liking their looks, I do and I definitely feels it is and improvement when it is done right. I like Tomwise for example. He doesn't look pretty, but he doesn't look ugly either, just not like a human which I am sorry to say, the da:o elves did.

[Sylvianus]

* sigh *

Beautiful. Besides, the character fits perfectly into its environment. It makes me want to know the universe.

Otherwise, I don't really care if he is a tolkien elf or not. Words don't matter when I am playing a game on my console. The most important is the lore and the background behind.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 21 novembre 2011 - 06:50 .

[esper]

Tom12 wrote...

casadechrisso wrote...

Tom12 wrote...

i didnt meant the tolkien elves, i meant the original elves from the germanic folklore they were the first elves and were ment to be better humans.

Actually, in our folklore elves are mostly portrayed as evil or at least shady creatures, closer to succubi and incubi than to beautiful better humans. In folk stories they usually steal children and replace them with changelings and generally trick humans. The beautiful elf from the movies is mainly a Tolkien invention.

hmm as far as i know that the idea of those elves (those small evil ones:P lol ) came after the germans idea about elves... here is an article that i read on wiki  
the link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves 

Actually they have to be human sized since they are dancing with people and in some they even 'marry' people. I remember reading I think it was one of Grimms about a servant girl who has to rescue the prince from the elves (with whom he goes dancing every night.). The premise was that the King and Queen were worried that the prince was so tired every night, so the servant girl finds out that he every night ride into the forest so she jumps on his horse (which he does noticed because he is enchanted) and follows him for three nights. To break the spell she had to say some verse and take some nuts from a bush and do something with them. 
 
In a lot of the old songs (don't know the english word for that genre) it doesn't end happily and can't be broken. Also the evil elves existed in german folklore. Goethes' Erlkönig is definitly based on that myth.

As a child always pictured them as sort of airy-like because they often 'disappered when the morning came' and so forth, so they didn't seem so corpoeal to me, but I don't think that there is a describtion about how they actually looked.

The small evil things are english faries, I think. Or a specific and different kind of creature that I don't have a english word for.

[TheRealJayDee]

esper wrote...
Bioware esthablish what a true elf is in their universe and it is perfectly allowed

Of course that's fine, but for me they established their "true elves" in DA:O, the game that was our introduction to Thedas and the Dragon Age, and theses elves are nowhere to be found in DA2. Making slight alterations might be okay, but completely changing a race from one game to the next is just weak in my book. It would be different if there were any kind of technical limitations that prevented them from presenting things like they wanted (which may be partly true for the Kossith), but changing stuff just because is not good.

I've had a little exchange with one of the devs about the "identity" of Dragon Age and such sometime ago, and while he was right in stating that ultimately they can do whatever they want in terms of artistic vision I just think drastically changing 3 of 5 major races in a newly established fantasy universe from the first game to the second is a strange and questionable thing to do.

[Monica83]

The overall problems is:
The new look of the elves don't fit at all with other things in the game..Its like take a model from another game with another design for example world of warcraft and put in a less cartoonish product like the witcher 2..
When i seen the elves in da2 is like if they have nothing to share with the overall envirovment and this mix of style broke the atmosphere for sure..
Dragon age 2 try to look distinct in a very disperate manner but the overall result is a mix of things whitout any sort of charisma..
In Skyrim the elves look ugly but for sure they fits well in the style of the game whitout break the overall style..
This is what i hate of dragon age 2 a mix of style whitout depth or charisma

[Tom12]

esper wrote...

No they weren't. at least not in scandinavian mythologi which I doubt is so different from german) Beutifull, perhaps... because in most fairy tales were they were involved in they are luring people in, so one most assume tha they are not ugly. But they were never described as perfect people, they are something mysterious and playfull at best, but sinister mostly. Tolkien took the beutifull thing and the association with nature and the supernaturell and somehow made them to superior beings.
The pointy ear thing is an english thing... I don't know where they got it from, but a lot of english fairy tales creatures are pictured with them.
Also the elves had never had the mysterious and superiority thing going for them in da. The dalish tries, but they aren't suceeding in it very well. I can respect you not liking their looks, I do and I definitely feels it is and improvement when it is done right. I like Tomwise for example. He doesn't look pretty, but he doesn't look ugly either, just not like a human which I am sorry to say, the da:o elves did.

It seems to me that they couldnt import their ideas of how they should look like in the game from their concept art. If the elves would look like that in the game i would be soo happy. i also dont think that they look so humanish on the concept art and still look good and have a unique look.
here: 
www.dragonageinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/dalish_elf.jpg
another one
images.wikia.com/dragonage/images/4/40/Concept-Rogue.png
And my favourite
img685.imageshack.us/img685/3822/bg2mn.jpg
yes i know the last one isnt from da but it looks so good 

Modifié par Tom12, 21 novembre 2011 - 07:03 .

[esper]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

esper wrote...
Bioware esthablish what a true elf is in their universe and it is perfectly allowed

Of course that's fine, but for me they established their "true elves" in DA:O, the game that was our introduction to Thedas and the Dragon Age, and theses elves are nowhere to be found in DA2. Making slight alterations might be okay, but completely changing a race from one game to the next is just weak in my book. It would be different if there were any kind of technical limitations that prevented them from presenting things like they wanted (which may be partly true for the Kossith), but changing stuff just because is not good.

I've had a little exchange with one of the devs about the "identity" of Dragon Age and such sometime ago, and while he was right in stating that ultimately they can do whatever they want in terms of artistic vision I just think drastically changing 3 of 5 major races in a newly established fantasy universe from the first game to the second is a strange and questionable thing to do.

I agree that it was a quesentionable decesion, but if they change it back it would be just as questionable if not more because then there would be zero consistity. I think that they should stick with what they got now, or it becomes really comfusing.
I think off it as the first game establishing the lore and the society off the world and the next game making the final artistic decision about how that world looks.
In short changing it back would be just as wrong.

[esper]

Tom12 wrote...

esper wrote...

No they weren't. at least not in scandinavian mythologi which I doubt is so different from german) Beutifull, perhaps... because in most fairy tales were they were involved in they are luring people in, so one most assume tha they are not ugly. But they were never described as perfect people, they are something mysterious and playfull at best, but sinister mostly. Tolkien took the beutifull thing and the association with nature and the supernaturell and somehow made them to superior beings.
The pointy ear thing is an english thing... I don't know where they got it from, but a lot of english fairy tales creatures are pictured with them.
Also the elves had never had the mysterious and superiority thing going for them in da. The dalish tries, but they aren't suceeding in it very well. I can respect you not liking their looks, I do and I definitely feels it is and improvement when it is done right. I like Tomwise for example. He doesn't look pretty, but he doesn't look ugly either, just not like a human which I am sorry to say, the da:o elves did.

It seems to me that they couldnt import their ideas of how they should look like in the game from their concept art. If the elves would look like that in the game i would be soo happy. i also dont think that they look so humanish on the concept art and still look good and have a unique look.
here: 
www.dragonageinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/dalish_elf.jpg
another one
images.wikia.com/dragonage/images/4/40/Concept-Rogue.png
And my favourite
img685.imageshack.us/img685/3822/bg2mn.jpg
yes i know the last one isnt from da but it looks so good 

The two first looks human, espically the first where I can't see the ears so well.
The last is a Tolkien-like superior elf.  She does look good, but...

[Tom12]

 You really like the da2`s elves dont you ? 

Modifié par Tom12, 21 novembre 2011 - 07:16 .

[RagingCyclone]

@Esper and others---on another thread about the elves I stated that the DA2 design was not that bad, but I preferred a blending of the two games styles. tmp has released a mod bringing the DA2 style of elves into DAO of which I use the facial structure but not the body. Would this kind blend make more sense?

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 21 novembre 2011 - 07:16 .

[TheRealJayDee]

esper wrote...

I agree that it was a quesentionable decesion, but if they change it back it would be just as questionable if not more because then there would be zero consistity. I think that they should stick with what they got now, or it becomes really comfusing.
I think off it as the first game establishing the lore and the society off the world and the next game making the final artistic decision about how that world looks.
In short changing it back would be just as wrong.

That's a problem they'll have with a lot of things. They changed so much from DA:O to DA2 that I still really don't know how they want to handle DA3. For myself I can say that DA:O was one my favourite games of the last years and DA2 was among the biggest dissapointments ever. And that's not mostly because of the parts that were clearly rushed, but because of the deliberate changes in asthetics and style. I love Dragon Age, but if DA3 doesn't look and feel significantly more like DA:O rather than DA2 I'm not sure I will return to Thedas.

[esper]

@Tom12. Yeah. Why not?
@RaginCyclone. I wouldn't mind a compromise. I escpially like the girl, you seems to have gotten the nose thing right. All thought if they compromise I want the height of da:o back as well, That is actually what bothers me most in the changing. But any compromise should be gradual as I don't think that more drastic changes to the look is good for da-franchnise.