148 réponses à ce sujet

[FaWa]

Monica83 wrote...

Im not doing this... I use skyrim for a example of design coherence.. What i want express is the dragon age 2 elf look don't fit at all with the rest of the design they seems model from a different game ported there..

And most important you can make a ugly race whitout ruin the overall design or setting but in dragon agw 2 the elves are not only ugly but they also are rendered too much cartoonish with plastic skin and animeish eyes and that donkey nose don't help at all.. Theyr body are not thin but exagerate thin at the point they looks like anorexic creature.. They seems taken from a 3 series Anime..Fenris just looks ridicolus with that bare feet and that stupid armor and white hair.. And also merril that is tenderly for sure but also utterly ugly and out of context in design

I am doing this. You can ruin an overall design by making a race ugly. It happened in Morrowind, it happened in Skyrim, it happened in DA2. 

You know whats also ugly? Female Dw-OH WAIT THERE ARE NONE

[Monica83]

I agree with the female dwarf.. but i must point a thing..

In dragon age lores says elven are considered beautyfull the problem was actually they are ugly and looks ridicolus.. In the elder scroll elves are not supposed to be beautyfull so in the end... The elder scroll is more coherent

[FaWa]

I don't care about lore, all I know is I tried to make a dark elf in skyrim and it looked like a pile of manure with a face, and then the same thing happened in DA2

[Zanallen]

Monica83 wrote...

I agree with the female dwarf.. but i must point a thing..

In dragon age lores says elven are considered beautyfull the problem was actually they are ugly and looks ridicolus.. In the elder scroll elves are not supposed to be beautyfull so in the end... The elder scroll is more coherent

In your opinion, the DA2 elves were ugly and look ridiculous. In my opinion, the DAO elves were fairly bland and looked really no different from humans. There were some good looking elves (Shianni, Ariane and maybe Nesiara are the only ones I can think of) and there were plenty of horrible looking elves in DA:O. Same with DA2.

Also, what exactly do the humans of Thedas find attractive about the elves? Remember, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps they are attracted to the strangeness of the elves. Maybe they like the elves because they look visually different from your average human. Remember, Twiggy was considered attractive back in the 60s. Some tribes find beauty in extended necks or teeth filed into points.

[Leramar]

While they did over-do the elves in DA2, I think that giving them the big eyes and making them more lithe was a good idea, these things ((including the noses)) actually kind of made them look like a different race rather than in DA:O when they were basically humans with pointed ears. It gave them more individuallism than in Origins because you could see an elf in DA2 and instantly know its an elf.

[Saerwen]

My interpretation of Canon elves would be almond shaped eyes in striking colors, longer pronounced ears, graceful/lithe body structure. Enough differences physically to set them apart from humans, yet make them attractive to humans.

When I think of Canon I am reffereing to Gaiders book "The Stolen Throne". I am just drawing off of memory buy he describes the dalish elves in particular as haveing large almond shaped eyes in unique colors. Almost a feline type of vibe.

So to answer the question I think that a nice blending of both games elf models would be perfect. Stick w/DA2's body shape, ears, and larger eye(well not that big), and bring back the uniqueness of DA's elves, as the pronounced nose/brow structure on the DA2 elves tends to make them all look very similar.

[DraCZeQQ]

I prefer my elves slim and cute, not ugly as hell ... so no points for DA2 =)

[Monica83]

FaWa wrote...

I don't care about lore, all I know is I tried to make a dark elf in skyrim and it looked like a pile of manure with a face, and then the same thing happened in DA2

sorry but lores must be respected or you have a world whitout coherency

[DraCZeQQ]

Monica83 wrote...

FaWa wrote...

I don't care about lore, all I know is I tried to make a dark elf in skyrim and it looked like a pile of manure with a face, and then the same thing happened in DA2

sorry but lores must be respected or you have a world whitout coherency

Bioware: wait what? Lore must be respected? So no super leaps from roof? No teleporting? No "its ok to be blood mage" as long as its not in cutscene"? 

[Marvin_Arnold]

Monica83 wrote...

What i want express is the dragon age 2 elf look don't fit at all with the rest of the design they seems model from a different game ported there.

Amen, sister!

I've said this before, but since nobody bothers to read through a whole thread (me included) it's always interesting that those examples of "good-looking DA2 elves" pointed out by everybody are actually those that don't have those overblown eyes, missing noses and chin, etc.

In short, those that look most like "short humans with pointy ears".

I also think the similarity between DA:O elves and humans played into the whole "disappearing race" topic that DA:O explored at several points. Of course they still "stood out" with their smaller frame and exotic (not exaggerated, like in DA2) facial features. But they were sufficiently similar to humans that you could understand why they feared they might eventually be "assimilated" into the human race, apart from the fact that half-elves looked 100% human. I can't picture humans and DA2 elves "interbreeding". (I know they do, but I can't see why and how)

As a matter of fact, thinking about it, when I created my Dalish elf character in DA:O, I managed to create a sufficiently different-from-human (and by no means "cute") elf, but I went into a completely different direction than the DA2 elves, IMO: (eyes are supposed to be blue, doesn't show here)




On a different note, yesterday I noticed what irritates me most about the DA2 elves: It's those huge irises. They make the eyes look dead. Or like E.T.'s eyes.

A mod that would make them a bit smaller could help a lot. (There's already a mod which makes the noses a bit more natural, less "broken")

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 24 novembre 2011 - 11:39 .

[RagingCyclone]

And see, I have no issue with the new facial design, as seen here using tmp's port to Origins, (body design I agree is horrible) so here is the new facial design using the old engine:


That being said, I really do not see a huge change from one to the other when using the same engine. Part of the huge departure is that DA2's engine makes all of the races funky...humans included. With the exception of the Qunari I think DA2'e engines mucks all of the faces, not just the new elf design. It's when I tried the new design in the old engine that I began to see what it's potential was and actually like it better...again when seen using the old engine for use in comparing new to old design.

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 24 novembre 2011 - 05:11 .

[johook213]

I actually prefer the DA2 elves. I think with a bit of tweaking they can get it just right. It may not have been perfect but it was a step in the right direction. Please do not go back to DA:O elf design! XD

[Monica83]

well the problem is the face of new elves is developed with a paddle hit

[Marvin_Arnold]

RagingCyclone wrote...

And see, I have no issue with the new facial design, as seen here using tmp's port to Origins, (body design I agree is horrible) so here is the new facial design using the old engine:
[snipped image, see 3 posts above]

It seems that you've taken the DA2 design to the "small humans with pointy ears" extreme, as others have with their examples of "good-looking DA2 elves" while complaining that DA:O elves look exactly like that...

DA:O or not, the eyes still look like dead fish...

That being said, I really do not see a huge change from one to the other when using the same engine. 

Yes, but we're talking about the DA2 design... in DA2.
It doesn't help that "everything looks better in DA:O"; we already know that.

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 25 novembre 2011 - 03:31 .

[RagingCyclone]

Marvin_Arnold---your last part is true regarding DA2...but then you are talking about the DA2 engine and not the design itself. So perhaps your issue is not so much the redesign of the elves but more how the DA2 engine implements that new design?

As for the eyes...I use mods that change the eye textures so I admit the eyes might look dead using the vanilla textures. 

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 25 novembre 2011 - 04:16 .

[Giltspur]

If they'd work on the head shape (George Washington foreheads sometimes, just plain weird at other times) and stop making them all look like hobbits with their male capri pants and bare feet, then I'd like DA2's better.  Maybe not as much as DAO concept art for elves...but more than in-game Elves for DAO.  The exception is Zevran.  He looked a lot better in DAO I thought. In general, I'd like to see them do another pass on elves in DA3 since the DA2 ones weren't entirely successful.

[tmp7704]

Marvin_Arnold wrote...

It seems that you've taken the DA2 design to the "small humans with pointy ears" extreme, as others have with their examples of "good-looking DA2 elves" while complaining that DA:O elves look exactly like that...

That's not any extreme -- it's what the actual, easy to verify difference between base DAO and DA2 elf head models --as well as the base DA2 elf shape-- is like.



Short of maybe the smaller ears the character on the picture you refer to still seems to show the basic features/differences from the regular DAO characters, imo.

Modifié par tmp7704, 25 novembre 2011 - 04:32 .

[Marvin_Arnold]

tmp7704 wrote...

Short of maybe the smaller ears the character on the picture you refer to still seems to show the basic features/differences from the regular DAO characters, imo.

Basic features yes, but with the sliders cranked up to a more "pleasant", i.e. human look. That's what I meant. I'm aware of the difference between the DA2 and the DA:O basic model. That's what this (and many other threads) is actually about.

RagingCyclone wrote...

So perhaps your issue is not so much the redesign of the elves but more how the DA2 engine implements that new design?

As tmp7704 has shown in the comparison, the problem is in the basic head design, no matter what engine. Would be interesting to see DA:O's basic elf model in DA2...

Looking at the "basic" shapes, It seems to me that another problem is the "featurelessness" of the DA2 elven model. The DA:O basic model has some "edges and bumps" that makes it look almost like a person, whereas the DA2 model looks like a balloon, smooth and without "personality".

It boils down to the old "rush job" argument again...

Hey, I can make DA2 elves in DA:O without any mod! (well except the ears, and I had to enlarge the irises in Photoshop as well, and the skin is as smooth as I could get it - DA:O has wrinkles all over the place!)

Well, I can try, at least:

(Yes, now I'm just being mean... poor boy, but he still has more personality than most DA2 elves...)

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 25 novembre 2011 - 05:29 .

[RagingCyclone]

Marvin_Arnold--I can see both sides. Whereas you may not see the argument that DAO elves look like humans with pointy ears...it is still a valid argument:


What I am trying to get at is that the devs have stated the new art design will stay. My initial reaction to the new design was like yours...not favorable at all. It wasn't until I saw it in DAO that I could see it's potential since we have been told it's staying. And because of how it looks in DAO is why I can accept it.

[bEVEsthda]

Just an update - since I probably haven't mentioned this before - but this question of the elves look, will be resolved as soon as my forces reach the capital and takes control. There will be no mercy.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 25 novembre 2011 - 07:15 .

[Teddie Sage]

I'm choosing the "I don't care" option. It's a game. It doesn't matter to me. I'm used to play 2D sprites games, retro gaming and etc. Graphics have little importance to me. All that matters is the lore, the story and the gameplay.

[Clertar]

Modifié par Clertar, 25 novembre 2011 - 07:41 .

[Lynata]

RagingCyclone wrote...
Marvin_Arnold--I can see both sides. Whereas you may not see the argument that DAO elves look like humans with pointy ears...it is still a valid argument:

It is - but dwarves are still just short humans, so the argument falls short due to not being applied equally.

Ultimately - in my opinion at least - there are some clichés you're simply expected to fulfill when you go and include races being called "elves" and "dwarves" into your game. If you don't like them, just don't do it. Create an entirely new race with a different name and avoid the expectations. DA:O elves were unique because of their culture and history (city slum elves), not because of their looks. Their new looks simply make them look less like elves.

In fact, I would even go as far as saying that looks are a more defining trait of the cliché fantasy races than their actual culture, which serves as a secondary sub-trait to set the various interpretations apart from each other whilst keeping the namesake-relation intact. It's just how our brains (as humans) tick, visual impressions do mean that much to us. Just look at the hundreds of different versions of drow/dark elves, all looking nearly the same (except for Warhammer dark elves - them having a white skin is something that keeps confusing me, even though it makes perfect sense) yet sporting vastly different backgrounds. And you have this in real life as well, it's called racial profiling, and keeps being an issue.

Bottom line: I think that in this instance, the devs have designed past their customers.

Modifié par Lynata, 25 novembre 2011 - 08:36 .

[Tom12]

Lynata wrote...

 there are some clichés you're simply expected to fulfill when you go and include races being called "elves" and "dwarves" into your game. If you don't like them, just don't do it. Create an entirely new race with a different name and avoid the expectations. 

this ^  if only bioware would see this and wake up from their "make elves more unique"
just as i said earlier you cant make them ugly because they are supposed to be beautiful
(like it was described in da lore)

Put instead of the elves the dwarfs they are described to be short but bioware wants to let them be "more unique" so they make them bigger then humans and bigger then the qunari, would it make sence? No! Of course not!
but they are "unique" in some matter. so they are not going to change it.

Really they should sometimes listen to themselves 
Even the majority here likes the dao elf design more then the da2 design still bioware is to stubborn because it makes the elves look to "normal" i think that both dao and da2 had bad elves but da2 was just horrible other then merrill all looked like gollum from lotr 

Modifié par Tom12, 25 novembre 2011 - 09:58 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Lynata wrote...

DA:O elves were unique because of their culture and history (city slum elves), not because of their looks. Their new looks simply make them look less like elves.

Thank you! The Dragon Age elves were clearly identifiable as elves, they had a somewhat 'classic elf look', and I thought that was fine. That's how DA elves look, rather similar to humans, but smaller and more delicate. Humans tend to find them attractive, . Still they aren't your typical forest-dwelling, noble, mystical beings. They are a divided people, some withering in the dirty slums of human cities, some living a nomadic live, clinging to what little is left of their culture and fighting for their mere survival. Felt like an interesting and thought out take on elves to me.

I still don't see the improvement in just making them look a lot more alien (except for the 'important' elves) and making them forget about the existence of shoes.