9 réponses à ce sujet

[uberdowzen]

I'm in the middle of playing Baldur's Gate 2 and am absolutely loving it. Once I've finished I want to play through from the beginning using the BG trilogy mod and I wanted some advice for my next character. I really like the idea of a battlemage (and I've read a few things online saying that a fighter/mage hybrid is pretty fun) and was wondering if anyone had any advice on how to accomplish this? I get the feeling dual-classing is quite easy to screw up and I want to avoid any pit falls.

[PicklePepperPiper]

Both a multi-class Fighter/Mage and dual class Fighter->Mage are viable options, but dual-classing is (in my opinion) by far the better option. You'll get access to the fighter kits, and beserker->mage or kensai->mage have very good reputations. I've played both and loved them to bits.

It's not too difficult to screw-up dualling. General levels that are advisable are 7, 9, or 13, depending on how long you want to wait before getting your fighter levels back, and how much oomph you want from the fighter side. If you just want a mage with higher HP and lower THACO, go for 7, but if you want more attacks per round and the maximum possible natural HP, go for 13.

I suppose the only place you could mess up is with proficiencies - when you're on your mage levels, don't invest in any weapons that you've done for your fighter character, you'll lose the proficiency point.

Also make sure that you put at least 17 for INT to dual to mage. You can always just do 16 and raise it with a certain item. But it shouldn't be too difficult to get 18 in STR, DEX, CON and INT, dumping any leftover points in WIS.
-PPP

EDIT: Potential spoiler.

Modifié par PicklePepperPiper, 19 novembre 2011 - 11:30 .

[The Cow King]

Kensai 9/ Mage 30:
- base thac0 9
- +3 dmg
- 8 attacks per round maximum
- 3x kai/day

Kensai 13/ Mage 28
- base thac0 4
- +4 dmg
- 9 attacks per round maximum
- 4x kai/day

Berserker 9/ Mage 30
- base thac0 12
- 9 attacks per round maximum
- 3x rage/day

Berserker 13/ Mage 28
- base thac0 8
- 10 attacks per round maximum
- 4x rage/day

Fighter 24 / Mage 20
- base thac0 zero (one if you take into account losing grandmastery, however, elves get +1 thac0 with 1h swords)
- no grandmastery (-2 dmg)
- 10 attacks per round maximum
- Fighter HLAs (Critical Strike with 10 APR, or GWW with 2h weapons/shapechange)
- much slower mage development (and access to 9th level spells)
- loses 2x L9 spells/day
- crappy simulacrum (doesn't get Improved Alacrity for example)

Berserker (especially the L9 variant) will run into thac0 problems eventually, and will have to use Tenser to compensate. Can get immunity against annoying things with rage, however, many of said immunities can also be acquired with Spell Immunity. The low number of berserks/day aren't really enough to compete vs. kensai when it comes to melee ability. Time Stop nullifies all thac0 problems (automatic hits) as long as the monster is affected by Time Stop.

Fighter/Mage is the way to go if you want to use 2h weapons (only way to get Greater Whirlwind).

Fighter/Mage doesn't get Improved Alacrity on their Simulacrum. That 1x Improved Alacrity with Robe of Vecna makes a world of difference when it comes to the usefulness of your clone (insta cast every protection spell in the book). However, this really doesn't mean anything unless playing solo/duo... trio at most.

Fighter/Mage can use both Critical Strike/GWW on the same round with Improved Alacrity. Or just GWW when transformed with Shapechange.

Personally, I'd go for dual-wielding Kensai 13/Mage 28, or Fighter/Mage if you want to use 2H weapons.

When it comes to dual-classing, the Fighter L13 variants are ALWAYS better than the L9 ones, but you have more downtime between classes.

If I had to rate them from worst->best...

Kensai 9 / Mage 30 = doesn't really make much sense.

Berserker 9 / Mage 30 = thac0 problems, however, can avoid those with Tenser. Good for party play, since you reactive early, and can compensate low thac0 with Berserk/Tenser in the fights you need them, while still getting high number of attacks per round. Berserking will also make some fights considerably more easy.

Berserker 13 / Kensai 13 / Fighter 24 / Mage X = hard to say, mostly down to personal preference.

It's worth noting however, that berserker 9-13 can get very close to Kensai 9-13 melee performance with items + berserk. However, kensai doesn't need to buff with berserk, and can use kai, which is particularly devastating with Black Blade of Disaster...

24 (BBoD) +10 (STR) +4 (kensai bonus) +4 (proficiency) = 42 damage per hit... and it doesn't matter if your opponent is immune to critical hits (unlike when you're using the Critical Strike HLA).

That being said, all Fighter/Mage variants are very powerful (even the L7 ones), and certainly beat a pure Mage or a Specialist (excluding Wild Mage & Sorcerer) no matter what way you look at it.

Modifié par The Cow King, 20 novembre 2011 - 05:42 .

[ussnorway]

@uberdowzen Are you going to play solo or group?
Have you got your hearth set on playing a special race... human, elf or halflings?

[Son of Imoen]

The Cow King has a good technical rundown of how you'll end up in the end of the game (accidental pun). Another thing to take in consideration, as you want to play the whole trilogy, is when you want your character to be a battlemage. It's related to the answer to ussnorway's question. If you go the F9 dual-class road with a party of 6, you will be just a highly intelligent fighter, berserker or kensai for approximately the whole BG1-part of the trilogy (until you reach 250.000 xp). For the next 250.000 xp (which won't take nearly as long as the first part), you'll be just a mage with high-hp. Only at F(or Berserker or Kensai)9>M10 will you be the battlemage you want to be. Dualing at level 13 will take you a great way into the SOA campaign before you can dual-class and taking longer still to be the battle-mage you want to be. (13 fighter-levels + 14 mage levels = 2.750.000 xp).

That's why ussnorway's question is important: solo-ing without a group to share the xp with, you'll gain levels much quicker. It takes good knowledge of the game though, especially for the part right after you dual: you'll be a low-level mage on your own, in an advanced stage of the story. Experienced player will know how to survive that part, but even I don't.

The advantage of a fighter/mage multiclass is to enjoy the life of a 'Spellblade' (my personal nickname for that 'build') all the way.

Another option: a fighter dualing at level 3: I recently started with a character I call my battlemage, who is a mage, who just happens to have better starting hp and is able to wield a sword, fire longbows and use fighter-only potions like potions of heroism, by dualing at level 3 already (as a plain fighter, the advantages of having a kit are quite minimal azt that stage). It's especially fun for the BG1-part of the game, as he shines as a battle-mage quiet quickly. By the time you get further into SOA however, he will hardly be different from a normal mage, as Thac0 is way below that of a F/M or F9>M.

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 20 novembre 2011 - 10:46 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

@ SoI: If you go berserker, even 3 levels are worth it.

@Cow King: THAC0 past a certain point is relatively moot. Your berserker(9)->Mage with strength 22, a weapon +5 and proficiency would likely not run into much trouble hitting their opponents. Besides those bonuses, there are the helm of Balduran, Gauntlets, buffs...
I also do not like Tenser and I do not reccomend it. If you run into trouble (which is bound to happen if you don't know the game by heart yet), the ability to cast a protective spell (or an offensive spell, if the situation calls for that) is really useful.
With Fixpack installed (and it should be installed) the multiple Project Image cheat is impossible AFAIK.

@ OP: I don't really know what kind of image you have of your battle-mage, but have you considered a Blade? They do not have as much straight power as FM combinations, but they are fun to play, and they do have a lot of potential.

[The Cow King]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
@Cow
King: THAC0 past a certain point is relatively moot. Your
berserker(9)->Mage with strength 22, a weapon +5 and proficiency
would likely not run into much trouble hitting their opponents. Besides
those bonuses, there are the helm of Balduran, Gauntlets, buffs...

Against average trash, thac0 is certainly not a problem. But in the hard fights, where monster AC dips below -10, a B9/M30 will start to miss ~50% of his attacks even with berserk activated.

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
With Fixpack installed (and it should be installed) the multiple Project Image cheat is impossible AFAIK.

Dear lord, you're right (just tested). I'm really... really starting to hate G3 Fixpack. They don't even bother to document this "minor" change, as I went through the entire change log before starting my current playthrough, specifically searching to see if it's been altered.

Modifié par The Cow King, 20 novembre 2011 - 05:31 .

[Son of Imoen]

@H_T: I meant 'minimal advantage' in case of the berserker kit to mean 'just one Enrage per day'. But it's more than nothing, so indeed, even 3 levels are worth it. The way I went with a berserker>cleric however, which you might also take with a quickly dualing battlemage, is dual at the 2nd Enrage at level 5. Being H_T, you know that of course, but maybe uberdowzen doesn't.

Making a berserker-mage is getting against the grain of good roleplaying though, is my opinion, though I saw a defense of it, that the rage of the berserker is a studied, acquired ability, not the explosion of emotion of a barbarian enrage.

*edit: sorry for bad grammar 'though... though'. I'm a bit tired right now.

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 20 novembre 2011 - 06:07 .

[uberdowzen]

Cool, thanks for all the help!

I don't really have an image of what the character's going to be as such, I just wanted something slightly more interesting to play as than my generic fighter (who's awesome but not overly interesting to play). So basically any race or class combo is good.

[Alesia_BH]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
@Cow King: THAC0 past a certain point is relatively moot. Your  berserker(9)->Mage with strength 22, a weapon +5 and proficiency would likely not run into much trouble hitting their opponents. Besides those bonuses, there are the helm of Balduran, Gauntlets, buffs...

The Cow King wrote...Against average trash, thac0 is certainly not a problem. But in the hard fights, where monster AC dips below -10, a B9/M30 will start to miss ~50% of his attacks even with berserk activated.

HT has a good point about Tenser's of course: using it will effect access to your book as well as your Triggers and Sequencers. And the argument wasn't that you should sacrifice half your attacks to a poor THACO. Rather, it was that there are other THACO reduction avenues which don't entail shutting your casting down. It isn't difficult to get even a capped BG1 character down into the negative THACO range.

Of course, when you are Tensered, you can still tap the Abjuration school via Scrolls, Contingiencies and Pre-Buffs. I have no doubt that both approaches can work fine if done intelligently. I'm also farily certain that there are enough contextual factors that would influence efficacy in game that a general "which is better discussion" would ultimately have very little real world relevance.

I'd merely encourage players to experiement with both the Tensered and non-Tensered approaches and then choose between them as the situation demands.

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 21 novembre 2011 - 09:47 .