481 réponses à ce sujet

[Vilio1]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Samara and Aria are what the Asari should be like in my opinion. They are the most respected, eldest, longest living, and have more wisdom than any other species.

Yet... Most of them are fawning after Shepard, being hired in clubs as dancers, or being overly flirtacious at every possibility. Not what you would expect from the most aged and revered race in the galaxy.

There are dozens of asari NPCs, and only 2 of them flirt with Shepard (well, 3 if we count Morinth...).

Modifié par Vilio1, 21 novembre 2011 - 04:35 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Mr Arg wrote...

Well, I feel Samara is the one of the best characters in ME2. No surprise judging by my pic. But as much as I love cleavage, I would like to not be distracted by her chest. It feels like there are two contrasting characters in one body: 1) Uber-powerful biotic knight, and 2) sexy Milt (Matron I'd Like to Take-out-on-a-nice-date-perhaps-dinner-and-a-movie.

Jokes aside, I'd like to see a more covered Samara. Leave the cleavage for the Afterlife strippers.

Fixed.

[Doctoglethorpe]

Never liked her cleavage, always wished I could cover it up. Not just because it seemed out of place (which it did) but also cause it just wasn't very pleasant to look at. Too saggy. She is 1000 years old after all. GGGGGGGGGGMILF.

[Han Shot First]

Xeranx wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

All of the potential female LIs have fan servicey elements to them. Some just are bigger examples of fan service than others.

Honestly out of all the female LIs the one that was the least fan service was Jack. Sure, she spends the game running around almost naked, but she's a flat-chested shank with a shaved head, and is covered from head to toe in tattoos. She's also got an abrasive personality. Some people may find that hot of course, but as a general rule she's about as far from most peoples' defintion of sexy as you can get. There are some elements of fan service of course (Shepard's therapy penis), but she has less elements of fan service than any of the other potential female LIs, including Samara.

And this is from someone who never romanced Jack in any game.

Jack is anything but flat-chested. Look at any male in-game and look at Jack. There's no way anyone should be able to make that mistake.

I exaggerated a bit, but she looks to be a about an A cup.

Either way my point still stands, she's not exactly the physical ideal for most men.

[someone else]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

*Tips hat* I will give you that one my good sir!

[sheepishly]  My thanks though much delayed.

[CptData]

Han Shot First wrote...

All of the potential female LIs have fan servicey elements to them. Some just are bigger examples of fan service than others.

Honestly out of all the female LIs the one that was the least fan service was Jack. Sure, she spends the game running around almost naked, but she's a flat-chested shank with a shaved head, and is covered from head to toe in tattoos. She's also got an abrasive personality. Some people may find that hot of course, but as a general rule she's about as far from most peoples' defintion of sexy as you can get. There are some elements of fan service of course (Shepard's therapy penis), but she has less elements of fan service than any of the other potential female LIs, including Samara.

And this is from someone who never romanced Jack in any game.

I wonder how much "fanservice" is in each female LI? If you consider "romanceable" as fanservice, then you're right, but if we ignore that one, what's left of "fanservice" for following female squadmates?

- Liara
I really wanna know why ppl think she's "fanservice". Yes, you can have a "lesbian" love with a f!Shep and Liara, and yes, Liara has a "fangirl" tendendy for Shepard. Besides that, she's not overly sexualized or super beautiful so no fanservice detected here.

- Ashley
Nope, not really. Beautiful, but not extreme. Sexy, but not oversexualized. Compared to generic NPC women of same age Ashley is neither more nor less beautiful. She also comes with no special "fanservice" traits.
Can not detect any fanservice here.

- Miranda
Obviously oversexualized body, but not character which is done in a nice yet incomplete way. Fanservice is more "visible" than for any other female character - she's desigend to be beautiful and perfect. Characterwise she's everything but perfect.

- Tali
No real fanservice when it comes to looks. She's the "teenage" love in a way and Shepard seems to be her first. Besides that, I can't detect any fanservice.

- Jack
If you have a thing for women like her, she's fanservice. I doubt there are many guys out there looking for her kind of women so ... nope. I'll keep it that way.

- Samara / Morinth
No full romance option. Fanservice - if you consider big boobs as fanservice, then yes. Even more obvious fanservice if Samara were a full romanceable option.

- Kelly
Poor Kelly. She likes everyone and seems to do it with everyone (even if it's only in her mind). She's the nice little ginger everyone wants. Besides that, she lacks the potential of a full romance option which could be interesting: how can Shepard win her heart so she's fully his or hers? Kelly is the one I can see for being a S/S option in ME3 once she's back. Fanservice? Can sense a bit.

So, and now kick me in the balls for that stuff *prepares armored pants*

[Killjoy Cutter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Oh, Cheeze, if I knew where you lived I'd buy you a beer for that one.

Dunno, man.  If we both get drunk at the same time, we might accidentally grind out the Unified Quantum Theory.

I don't think the world is ready for that.

Oh, did you have to say 'grind'?

I hate grinding.

Besides, we'd probably get through String Theory first.

String Cheese Theory?

[Dean_the_Young]

Oh, that was bad.

[Dean_the_Young]

CptData wrote...

- Liara
I really wanna know why ppl think she's "fanservice". Yes, you can have a "lesbian" love with a f!Shep and Liara, and yes, Liara has a "fangirl" tendendy for Shepard. Besides that, she's not overly sexualized or super beautiful so no fanservice detected here.


- Tali
No real fanservice when it comes to looks. She's the "teenage" love in a way and Shepard seems to be her first. Besides that, I can't detect any fanservice.

Liara (in ME1) and Tali are the socially-awkward-princess geek girl archetypes. Their fanservice is less from the visible exterior but their behavior and character dynamic.  They're roles catered to appeal to the protective urges of people with overly-low selfesteem: to make them feel strong and powerful by protecting this 'strong' women who are just socially dysfunctional enough to be awed by and crushing on the player.

It's non-visual form of fanservice.

- Jack
If you have a thing for women like her, she's fanservice. I doubt there are many guys out there looking for her kind of women so ... nope. I'll keep it that way.

She wears a bra belt. In space.

Though the tatoos really do help, she mixes the visual fanservice with the 'hurt/angry victim to be healed' appeal. In broad terms, she'd be a tsundere archetype, which is a really popular one.

[
- Samara / Morinth
No full romance option. Fanservice - if you consider big boobs as fanservice, then yes. Even more obvious fanservice if Samara were a full romanceable option.

A boob show is the most base form of fanservice.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Are all characters supposed to be blandly unlikeable, and all stories avoid all manner of inter-character friendship or romance, in order to avoid the "fanservice" tag?

[CptData]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Liara (in ME1) and Tali are the socially-awkward-princess geek girl archetypes. Their fanservice is less from the visible exterior but their behavior and character dynamic.  They're roles catered to appeal to the protective urges of people with overly-low selfesteem: to make them feel strong and powerful by protecting this 'strong' women who are just socially dysfunctional enough to be awed by and crushing on the player.

It's non-visual form of fanservice.

That would explain a tiny portion of the fandom but not all of them. No need to feel offended here, guys. I said a "tiny" portion.

Must say, I (29) think Tali's romance arc has something interesting. Funny fact - it kinda reflects my own relationship with my fiancee who's 19. So Tali is a late teen / early tween and Shepard is the elder partner. Works, if you like it - it's sweet, but also quite risky.
Without going too much into private stuff - ten years of age difference are a big deal in my case. Lemme say I'm 39 and she's 29 thinks were much easier than they are now.

Liara's romance arc is different, but yes, also lives from light "nerdy girl" fanservice.

Funny, why doesn't work it on me? I'm a nerd. Kinda. Still, my heart goes for Ashley, who's a type of woman most nerds won't touch because "she won't even notice me" .

She wears a bra belt. In space.

Though the tatoos really do help, she mixes the visual fanservice with the 'hurt/angry victim to be healed' appeal. In broad terms, she'd be a tsundere archetype, which is a really popular one.

Okay, but in that case this kind of fanservice has not but the lightest effect on me.  Whatever.

A boob show is the most base form of fanservice.

If you go for that - yes.

Modifié par CptData, 21 novembre 2011 - 04:22 .

[FoxShadowblade]

CptData wrote...
So Tali is a late teen / early tween and Shepard is the elder partner. Works, if you like it - it's sweet, but also quite risky.

I feel the need to point out that Tali was born in 2161, and the events of Mass Effect 2, ala her romance sub-plot, take place in 2185. She's 24. While she is quite younger than Shepard, she's hardly a late teen. And as "tween" refers to a time of maturity before teenage years, she's not that either. I see the point you are making, and it's a good point... but I just feel it wasn't quite valid.

On that note Shepard is 31, so it is similar to your own relationship.

On topic: If Jack is fanservice, BioWare failed in my case. Jack is the only character besides Jacob I've intentionally tried to get killed. XD

Modifié par FoxShadowblade, 21 novembre 2011 - 04:50 .

[RoseLegion]

@slimgrin, honestly unless you can provide links to cannon sources I honestly don't see where there's any basis for the argument. Since the whole universe of Mass Effect is fiction contemporary Amero-European social norms simply are not part of the context. Science Fiction is almost by definition something which will be framed outside of the temporal and social context of the author/audience. The genre aspects completely aside there are human cultures right now that consistently dress in ways that show more skin than anything in ME, and there are other human cultures now that would consider lewd what is normal even among conservative aspects of UK/US/Western type culture.

If on the other hand I've missed the point of the argument and it's less "story method isn't cohesive" and more "story elements cater to certain types of interaction/entertainment" well then maybe but for the most part entertainment is specifically crafted with the intent to appeal to a given audience or enjoyment type. I can't claim to have heard the term "fanservice" before so maybe there is some nuance I'm missing hidden within it but from what I can glean so far it seems to be a description of making something within an entertainment product a specific way for the purpose of pleasing fans in a given way (if there's some codified definition of "fanservice" and I'm getting it wrong do explain it to me, as I say it's not a term I've run across). Honestly within an entertainment medium the term "fanservice" (as I understand it) seems to hold almost no meaning.
accessible UI = fanservice
sleek/new graphics = fanservice
weapon choice = fanservice
engaging combat = fanservice
romance options of any kind = fanservice

Is it somehow "less" fanservice to have Krogen kicking around the ME universe than Asari? I think they're easily as interesting as a race, would they "not" be fanservice because their appeal is 'catered' to a different aspect of entertainment? Their culture is easily as focused sexuality as the Asari, perhaps more so (the genophage gives them reason, but then again purebloods like Morinth give the Asari reason) so does it all come done to appearance? Honestly I couldn't have told you one way or another if Samara ever showed skin like that before reading this thread (and I've recruited her in all of my playthroughs thus far), it just never mattered to me enough to make a memorable impact. I find the story interesting and the gameplay solid enough (if a bit watered down in some aspects compared to ME1, tho there were improvements as well so /shrug ).

Actually here's a challenge for any and all comers, educate me on the definition of fanservice by (wait for it) providing five examples of romance involving the PC of a video game that are *not* fanservice. Or failing that, fill out the rest of the list of five with theoretical examples of romances that wouldn't be fanservice (and let's keep them within the ME universe so we're still on topic).
Maybe I've totally missed the point here, but honestly from where I sit the term fanservice seems to be as meaningful as an empty cup is thirst quenching

2c,
Legion

[someone else]

RoseLegion wrote...

Or failing that, fill out the rest of the list of five with theoretical examples of romances that wouldn't be fanservice (and let's keep them within the ME universe so we're still on topic).

Legion

please refer to thread on romance with space hamster.

PS - well stated.

Modifié par someone else, 21 novembre 2011 - 04:59 .

[FoxShadowblade]

RoseLegion wrote...

@slimgrin, honestly unless you can provide links to cannon sources I honestly don't see where there's any basis for the argument. Since the whole universe of Mass Effect is fiction contemporary Amero-European social norms simply are not part of the context. Science Fiction is almost by definition something which will be framed outside of the temporal and social context of the author/audience. The genre aspects completely aside there are human cultures right now that consistently dress in ways that show more skin than anything in ME, and there are other human cultures now that would consider lewd what is normal even among conservative aspects of UK/US/Western type culture.

If on the other hand I've missed the point of the argument and it's less "story method isn't cohesive" and more "story elements cater to certain types of interaction/entertainment" well then maybe but for the most part entertainment is specifically crafted with the intent to appeal to a given audience or enjoyment type. I can't claim to have heard the term "fanservice" before so maybe there is some nuance I'm missing hidden within it but from what I can glean so far it seems to be a description of making something within an entertainment product a specific way for the purpose of pleasing fans in a given way (if there's some codified definition of "fanservice" and I'm getting it wrong do explain it to me, as I say it's not a term I've run across). Honestly within an entertainment medium the term "fanservice" (as I understand it) seems to hold almost no meaning.
accessible UI = fanservice
sleek/new graphics = fanservice
weapon choice = fanservice
engaging combat = fanservice
romance options of any kind = fanservice

Is it somehow "less" fanservice to have Krogen kicking around the ME universe than Asari? I think they're easily as interesting as a race, would they "not" be fanservice because their appeal is 'catered' to a different aspect of entertainment? Their culture is easily as focused sexuality as the Asari, perhaps more so (the genophage gives them reason, but then again purebloods like Morinth give the Asari reason) so does it all come done to appearance? Honestly I couldn't have told you one way or another if Samara ever showed skin like that before reading this thread (and I've recruited her in all of my playthroughs thus far), it just never mattered to me enough to make a memorable impact. I find the story interesting and the gameplay solid enough (if a bit watered down in some aspects compared to ME1, tho there were improvements as well so /shrug ).

Actually here's a challenge for any and all comers, educate me on the definition of fanservice by (wait for it) providing five examples of romance involving the PC of a video game that are *not* fanservice. Or failing that, fill out the rest of the list of five with theoretical examples of romances that wouldn't be fanservice (and let's keep them within the ME universe so we're still on topic).
Maybe I've totally missed the point here, but honestly from where I sit the term fanservice seems to be as meaningful as an empty cup is thirst quenching

2c,
Legion

Pretty much this. People throw the term fansevice out, when it's fanservice that makes the game interesting.

And people use it in a negative way...

I am forced to draw the conclusion people want a boring game.

[RoseLegion]

someone else wrote...

RoseLegion wrote...

Or failing that, fill out the rest of the list of five with theoretical examples of romances that wouldn't be fanservice (and let's keep them within the ME universe so we're still on topic).

Legion

please refer to thread on romance with space hamster.

PS - well stated.

I'll check that out, thanks for the heads up

also, challenge is still open for any/all comers (one nifty thread doesn't get all of you 'off the hook' lol )

EDIT: Ok so I've learned something, rodent beastiality  is not equal to fanservice, are there any other instances or are only rodents exempt? :innocent:

FoxShadowblade wrote...

I am forced to draw the conclusion people want a boring game.

But then wouldn't the tedium also become fanservice?

Modifié par RoseLegion, 21 novembre 2011 - 05:23 .

[FoxShadowblade]

RoseLegion wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...

I am forced to draw the conclusion people want a boring game.

But then wouldn't the tedium also become fanservice?

 Mind = blown.

[Mr Arg]

RoseLegion wrote...

 But then wouldn't the tedium also become fanservice?

What isn't fan service?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Once again, a term that had a specific meaning originally, has been turned into a meaningless buzzword. (See also, "Mary Sue".)

Fanservice specifically refers to content deliberately inserted, unrelated or irrelevent to the actual story, and designed to sexually titilate. It DOES NOT mean "things in the game/story because someone will find them interesting".

[someone else]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Fanservice specifically refers to content deliberately inserted, unrelated or irrelevent to the actual story, and designed to sexually titilate. It DOES NOT mean "things in the game/story because someone will find them interesting".

Not necessarily - term comes from the amine & manga world - or so says wiki

Fan service (ファンサービス fan sābisu?), fanservice, or service cut (サービスカット sābisu katto?),[1][2] is a term originating from anime and manga fandom for material in a series which is intentionally added to please the audience.[3] It is about "servicing" the fan[4] - giving the fans "exactly what they want".[5] Fan service usually refers to "gratuitous titillation",[6] but can also refer to intertextual references to other series.[3]

[Killjoy Cutter]

That's the first time I've seen a definition that wasn't just about gratuitous titilation.

[CptData]

FoxShadowblade wrote...

CptData wrote...
So Tali is a late teen / early tween and Shepard is the elder partner. Works, if you like it - it's sweet, but also quite risky.

I feel the need to point out that Tali was born in 2161, and the events of Mass Effect 2, ala her romance sub-plot, take place in 2185. She's 24. While she is quite younger than Shepard, she's hardly a late teen. And as "tween" refers to a time of maturity before teenage years, she's not that either. I see the point you are making, and it's a good point... but I just feel it wasn't quite valid.

On that note Shepard is 31, so it is similar to your own relationship.

On topic: If Jack is fanservice, BioWare failed in my case. Jack is the only character besides Jacob I've intentionally tried to get killed. XD

Tali -acts- like a teenager / early twenties. We have no idea how old a quarian can become or at what age they're considered as a) adults and ready for full fledged relationships. So could be Tali is in her early twenties / late teenage years for Quarian standards.
Thought "tween" is "early twenties"? If that's not the case, then it's my fault - lost in translation

Shepard is 29 in ME, so perfectly my age. He's a lot more handsome and younger looking than me

My fav relationship is with Ashley, fits best in my "headcanon", also when it comes to age, but can see why others pick Liara or Miranda for example.

[RoseLegion]

Interesting, thanks for the definition(s), which if I am reading them correctly (in either case) require a gratuitous insertion of content in violation of story continuity/cohesiveness.  In which case I return to my original thesis of "premiss of thread has not a leg to stand on unless cannon sources can be provided which show a violation of internal story logic."  Or stated another way, while fanservice may include titillation it does not logically follow that all (potentially, after all different strokes for different folks) titillating elements are fanservice.  This becomes doubly true when said elements are specifically part of a romance within the scope of the story.

Also, I have to reverse my statement about the hamster romance.  It's the only example of ME fanservice I'm aware of, since it's both titillating and a refrence to another series

[FoxShadowblade]

CptData wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...

CptData wrote...
So Tali is a late teen / early tween and Shepard is the elder partner. Works, if you like it - it's sweet, but also quite risky.

I feel the need to point out that Tali was born in 2161, and the events of Mass Effect 2, ala her romance sub-plot, take place in 2185. She's 24. While she is quite younger than Shepard, she's hardly a late teen. And as "tween" refers to a time of maturity before teenage years, she's not that either. I see the point you are making, and it's a good point... but I just feel it wasn't quite valid.

On that note Shepard is 31, so it is similar to your own relationship.

On topic: If Jack is fanservice, BioWare failed in my case. Jack is the only character besides Jacob I've intentionally tried to get killed. XD

Tali -acts- like a teenager / early twenties. We have no idea how old a quarian can become or at what age they're considered as a) adults and ready for full fledged relationships. So could be Tali is in her early twenties / late teenage years for Quarian standards.
Thought "tween" is "early twenties"? If that's not the case, then it's my fault - lost in translation

Shepard is 29 in ME, so perfectly my age. He's a lot more handsome and younger looking than me

My fav relationship is with Ashley, fits best in my "headcanon", also when it comes to age, but can see why others pick Liara or Miranda for example.

Actually we do know when they are considered adults, their Pilgrimage is a right of adulthood.  But yes, she does act as if she is a late teenager/young adult.

That is not the case, and not to worry. 

Can't say I share your enthusiasm for Ashley, but I see your point.

[someone else]

RoseLegion wrote...

Also, I have to reverse my statement about the hamster romance.  It's the only example of ME fanservice I'm aware of, since it's both titillating and a refrence to another series

Have to agree (demonstrating shameful lack of knowledge of Baldur's Gate)  -

As to the fan service, I don't think the material has to violate the story - the point is it is gratuitous and inserted for the sole purpose of satisfying fan desires - of whatever sort - Its not fan service for Shep and LI to clench, the ME skin show is, imho.