481 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

And yet the ME1 "skin scene" is less jarring, and seemed to fit into the story more seemlessly, than some of the ME2 scenes...

[FoxShadowblade]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

And yet the ME1 "skin scene" is less jarring, and seemed to fit into the story more seemlessly, than some of the ME2 scenes...

What, Jacob shirtless didn't do it for you? 

[someone else]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

And yet the ME1 "skin scene" is less jarring, and seemed to fit into the story more seemlessly, than some of the ME2 scenes...

...which suggests that the implicit premise of the OP - tha fan service is somehow inherently a prostitution of literary integrity - (granted mentioning manga and literary integrity in the same breath may challenge intellectual integrity) - is simply wrong.

[Sgt Stryker]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Once again, a term that had a specific meaning originally, has been turned into a meaningless buzzword.  (See also, "Mary Sue".)

Fanservice specifically refers to content deliberately inserted, unrelated or irrelevent to the actual story, and designed to sexually titilate. It DOES NOT mean "things in the game/story because someone will find them interesting".

See also retcon, plothole, and apparently Deus Ex Machina.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Mr Arg wrote...

RoseLegion wrote...

 But then wouldn't the tedium also become fanservice?

What isn't fan service?

The only nonfan service thing I can come up with would be the game makers making something in the world cannon like Shep already starts off with a girlfriend and stays with her the whole game like Liara and no extra
options were ever given fans who hate it would hate it and those who like it would like it and no one would be able to call it fan service because BW said this is the way it is for shep.

But some of the other post are true fan service is subjective it is in the eye of the beholder those who like something don't think its fan service and others who hate it say it is in a negative since to try to make those who enjoy the item feel guilty about liking something the game maker placed in there for them (because they were whom they were trying to reach out to anyway not the ones who hate it).

The comment of everything is fan service is also true realistic graphics is fan service for those who love eye candy, great sound effects fan service for those drawn to realistic sounds, hot chicks/dudes you guessed it fan service I suppose those tossing fan service around like its food at a table fight would love to have a game where there are no interesting people, players have no choice in small parts in the game, we go way back to Atari pitfall graphics, and have no sound that way unless  you are upset and consider bad pixels fan service one can not be offended by anything in a game. If a game makes you that upset perhaps you shouldn't play it.

People also forget this is not their game, they may pay to play it but they do not control the world beyond who shep punches or not, BW has the right to place fanservice where it deems fanservice should be hopefully they use discretion as to how they apply it some fanservice is better then others and some will ruin or add to the world but it is in the end their call to make not fans.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 21 novembre 2011 - 07:17 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

someone else wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

And yet the ME1 "skin scene" is less jarring, and seemed to fit into the story more seemlessly, than some of the ME2 scenes...

...which suggests that the implicit premise of the OP - tha fan service is somehow inherently a prostitution of literary integrity - (granted mentioning manga and literary integrity in the same breath may challenge intellectual integrity) - is simply wrong.

Actually, I'd say that the thing actually runs in the opposite direction -- the prostitution of literary integrity is (part of) what makes something fanservice. 

[RoseLegion]

someone else wrote...

RoseLegion wrote...

Also, I have to reverse my statement about the hamster romance.  It's the only example of ME fanservice I'm aware of, since it's both titillating and a refrence to another series

Have to agree (demonstrating shameful lack of knowledge of Baldur's Gate)  -

As to the fan service, I don't think the material has to violate the story - the point is it is gratuitous and inserted for the sole purpose of satisfying fan desires - of whatever sort - Its not fan service for Shep and LI to clench, the ME skin show is, imho.

I can kinda see what you mean (I think) about it not having to violate the story per se, but doesn't that just become a question of shades of grey at that point?  Is there an actual classification or is it more "does it seem out of context with ones sense of the world".  As a logic puzzle consider this, could a romance novel ever contain fanserivce (considering the norms of the genre) or is it perhaps pure fanservice?
Asari outfits make sense to me for a couple of reasons;

• "he's an enlightened 51st century man" ~ The Doctor point here is that their cultural/social norms aren't from our era, species or solar system.  Or put another way "titillating" is subjective.
• Asari are (as an average species wide) trying to attract members of other species.  As to Miranda, well she was genetically engineered from birth by a man.

Of course it could (perhaps quite legitimately) be argued that they are created from the ground up in such a way as to legitimize inclusion of their appearances.  But that to me gets us back into shades of grey once more because not only is what question of 'what's titillating' subjective but more to the point is it part of what as a story element adds to the plot and context.  It tracks for me that the kind of guy Mirandas dad is described as being would do something like that and her whole character is predicated on her history/interaction with him.  Could she look different and have the same back story? Sure some other appearances could pass just as well from a story stand point but I don't think any 'look' for her that isn't meant to be 'broadly/mainstream/pop culture' titillating will track as well because of the type of person who (in story) was dictating her appearance.
The Asari are even more so because the unique sexual aspect of their culture (specifically how an inter-species requirement has effected their culture and presence within the universe of ME) is conceptually interesting.  From my perspective at least the ME story wouldn't be improved by the removal of the Asari, hence they fall outside of being gratuitous or having the sole purpose of satisfying fan desires (at least from my perspective).

I guess I'm just saying it seems hard to define what gratuitous is outside of a story violation when the martial in question as an entertainment product is explicitly created to satisfy fan desires.

Of course my sense of this is obviously influence by my perspective which is in essence my own experience of the games and as I mentioned previously 'the skin show' was something I found generally unremarkable/unmemorable. So perhaps it is fanservice and just didn't stand out enough in my mind for me to notice (couldn't really say one way or another here). What I can say with certainty is that I found the new appearances of returning characters in DA2 far more noteworthy (and disruptive) than any of the appearances in Mass Effect 2 (returning or otherwise). Then again my first thought upon encountering Jack was "I wonder if this was meant to be a flagrant Pitch Black reference" (which might make it fanservice tho I didn't know it then) while my girlfriends first thought was "she isn't wearing a shirt" (also arguably making it fanservice but also wholly outside my experience of the character)... ok now I'm starting to talk in circles and the wall of text grows grim so I will sign off

Cheers,
Legion

[someone else]

I think the OP kinda blew the fanservice thing out of proportion - in the anime world,  its hardly more than quick flip of the skirt - not a major piece of the story, which the Asari unquestionably are. Samara is unnecessary to the main plot, but that's true for the majority of the NPCs - there're all foils for Shep and plot line development one way or another...Her costume is well... - for chrissake there a buckle by her throat - she should just close it and be done.

And just as obviously, the story would suffer from a barebones telling - would anyone really want to cut Gianna Parasini? (I can hardly bear to betray her, much less kill her off, no matter how renegade I try to play) So shades of grey - the skin show didn't titillate you - but as a woman you weren't the target fan base - the back story of Miranda and her psychological insecurities courtesy of Papa may have drawn you in more - but vital to the plot? It would suffice if he were just a cold, controlling bastard to set up her LM.

So maybe I'm about done with this too.

Modifié par someone else, 21 novembre 2011 - 07:37 .

[hawat333]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

And yet the ME1 "skin scene" is less jarring, and seemed to fit into the story more seemlessly, than some of the ME2 scenes...

[CptData]

FoxShadowblade wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

And yet the ME1 "skin scene" is less jarring, and seemed to fit into the story more seemlessly, than some of the ME2 scenes...

What, Jacob shirtless didn't do it for you? 

LoL

Na, in my case I enjoy naked Ashley. That scene was beautiful and -not- pornographic. Support

[Rune-Chan]

I was going to come back with a witty response about her breasts but somebody just posted an image in the second reply, so I honestly do not need to.

I like the fact that they didn't make Samara a LI, or rather, that they didn't make every recruitable character a LI, but I don't see Liara as fanservice, although the writers do kind of force her upon the player to an extent, especially considering how it is impossible to not be friends with her.

[Xeranx]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Liara (in ME1) and Tali are the socially-awkward-princess geek girl archetypes. Their fanservice is less from the visible exterior but their behavior and character dynamic.  They're roles catered to appeal to the protective urges of people with overly-low selfesteem: to make them feel strong and powerful by protecting this 'strong' women who are just socially dysfunctional enough to be awed by and crushing on the player.

It's non-visual form of fanservice.

The funny thing here is that I never really found a use for Liara, and she served as a "let me get it out of my system" deal when I first did the game.  Afterward, I feel like I'm going out of my way to romance her if I even think about it. 

In Tali's case, I never saw her as weak and in need of protection.  She may fit the princess geek girl stereotype, but she didn't come across that way to me in the least.  Well, in the first game.  ME2 was a different story and it makes me wonder what goes through the writer's heads when they start thinking about romance paths.  I still think Ashley's was the best one because, while it still had that awkward quality to it, the majority of it was on the level of what you'd expect from an adult.  More so than say Liara or Tali in ME2...that last one makes me wince.

[Justicar]

Ok, reading the past few pages, apparently, Liara being a S/S lover is fan service?How homophobic and politically incorrect of you.
.
Fanservice is subjective. I don't think a homosexual man would appreciate Samara the way a heterosexual man would. Then again, maybe some men are repulsed by Samara, who knows.
.
Jacob could be considered fanservice, but what about the homosexual females that play this game? Or maybe some straight females find Jacob boring/ugly, that's another discussion entirely.
.
What I'm trying to say is, fanservice is what you want it to be, or what you think it is. It's all subjective. Let's have an argument over which fruit tastes better, we won't get more interesting or "correct" answers.

Modifié par Justicar, 21 novembre 2011 - 11:04 .

[CptBomBom00]

Ok I got to ask guys how the hell can I change my avatar pic, from those standard ones to for Example like jreezy's?

[CptBomBom00]

Thanks man.

[Dean_the_Young]

CptData wrote...

Must say, I (29) think Tali's romance arc has something interesting. Funny fact - it kinda reflects my own relationship with my fiancee who's 19. So Tali is a late teen / early tween and Shepard is the elder partner. Works, if you like it - it's sweet, but also quite risky.

Without going too much into private stuff - ten years of age difference are a big deal in my case. Lemme say I'm 39 and she's 29 thinks were much easier than they are now.

Personally, I think I would have like the relationship a bit more had anyone treated the problems inherent in it as something other than something to be handwaved between the two. A large part of relationships is not just the emotions between the two in question, but also outsider response.

If Mordin were less humerous but more disapproving of the relationship (needless risk: toying with her life: nothing gained despite safer alternatives), that would serve as a foil to the 'I want this' eagerness of Tali's. Likewise if someone cornered Shepard and forced a talk about if Shepard has considered the implications of the age difference, and Tali's own immaturity. The difference between whether it was a good idea, or just a fun one.

Relationships do have troubles, and outsider challenge could serve as a good basis for either confirming Shepard's own failings (yeah, right), or at least offering a 'thoughtful' look at it.

Other examples of a concerned warning might include:

For Jack, if Kelly warned Shepard that Jack needs a friend more than a lover, and that if Shepard goes through with it Jack might not respond well (might go crazy) from any later betrayal. Points for the Virmire/Liara romance.

For Miranda, if someone (Tali?) raised the prospect that Miranda's just faking it to draw Shepard in with Cerberus. Miranda's studied Shep's psychology to know how to appeal, and is established as willing to go to any length.

For Thane, someone (Samara?) bringing up the point that Shepard will have to deal with living past him... and that if Shepard is grieving as the Reapers arrive, everyone could be off worse.

For Garrus, someone (Kelly?) pointing out that Garrus may still be on the 'rebound' from his failures on Omega, and that mixing friendship with sex is a great way to ruin both.

For Jacob, play up the possible Cerberus mole angle. 'To good to be true' often is, and a moral man in Cerberus may well be an oxymoron.

Funny, why doesn't work it on me? I'm a nerd. Kinda. Still, my heart goes for Ashley, who's a type of woman most nerds won't touch because "she won't even notice me" .

Obviously (not sarcastic towards you, but just self-evident in general) not all appeals work for all people. The Miranda sex appeal actually turns me off, for example. I don't like blatant sex-appeal fanservice, or geek-appeal, because it's insulting in terms of what it implies the creators think of me.

A boob show is the most base form of fanservice.

If you go for that - yes.

What's baser?

[Dean_the_Young]

Xeranx wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Liara (in ME1) and Tali are the socially-awkward-princess geek girl archetypes. Their fanservice is less from the visible exterior but their behavior and character dynamic.  They're roles catered to appeal to the protective urges of people with overly-low selfesteem: to make them feel strong and powerful by protecting this 'strong' women who are just socially dysfunctional enough to be awed by and crushing on the player.

It's non-visual form of fanservice.

The funny thing here is that I never really found a use for Liara, and she served as a "let me get it out of my system" deal when I first did the game.  Afterward, I feel like I'm going out of my way to romance her if I even think about it.

Heh.

Personally, I think the funniest, and best, Renegade dialogue in the game comes from bluntly turning her down when she shows her interest. It's even better when she denies that she's obsessed.

In Tali's case, I never saw her as weak and in need of protection.  She may fit the princess geek girl stereotype, but she didn't come across that way to me in the least.  Well, in the first game.  ME2 was a different story and it makes me wonder what goes through the writer's heads when they start thinking about romance paths.

I was speaking of ME2, of course. In ME1, Tali was an Action-Girl: our first introduction is her fighting off and throwing her grenades at her assailants, and while she might have needed help in general she was determined to go down fighting for herself.

 I still think Ashley's was the best one because, while it still had that awkward quality to it, the majority of it was on the level of what you'd expect from an adult.  More so than say Liara or Tali in ME2...that last one makes me wince.

Well, a part of that is certainly that both Liara and Tali are both cast as 'young' characters, barely into adulthood. Liara is still considered a child by the standard of her species, and we meet Tali during her rite of adulthood. Shepard is also the 'first adult love' for either of them.

In comparison, Ash is a career soldier with years of experience and a number of past relationships behind her. She's confident in both her sexuality and professionalism.

[someone else]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What's baser?

Phil Lesh

[capn233]

I support space boobs.

No, I am not an alien bra.

[Rosewind]

capn233 wrote...

I support space boobs.

No, I am not an alien bra.

Lol I like that

Was messing around with a screenie of Samara with photoshop this is what i came up with hope all you Samara fans like it!

Modifié par Rosewind, 27 décembre 2011 - 08:37 .

[mybudgee]

Damn if I had DA:O on PC that would be my avatar pic!

[D.Kain]

Rosewind Y U resurrect Samara? She should stay dead.