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Samara, fan service, and the Asari


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#151
D.Kain

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mauro2222 wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

The closest thing to a religion would be her Code, and she's pretty damn zealous in following it, sure.


She is committed to it, but she doesn't dismiss any other moral values or what is actually right and wrong, she does what the code says because she is a Justicar, she made an oath and she respects it. That's what she says "Do I really need to know he is a devoted father?" She knows that this could distract her, because she knows that killing isn't good.


Yes she follows her code without using her own head, that's the defenition of a zealot. 

Guy: Do we really need to know how many people are in that subway station? ( prepares explosives on his waist )

#152
Dean_the_Young

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Sgt Stryker wrote...

Maybe not "religious zealot", but "warrior monk" and "abstinent" describes Samara perfectly.

Non-religious zealot, or fanatic, also applies.

#153
mauro2222

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D.Kain wrote...

Yes she follows her code without using her own head, that's the defenition of a zealot. 

Guy: Do we really need to know how many people are in that subway station? ( prepares explosives on his waist )


They know, but they don't care... Samara does not wish to know because it may affect her. She is committed to this cause, she is not following it blindly. I won't be able to make you understand this. Another example would be the Bushido code.

#154
Labrev

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mauro2222 wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Like I said in the Jack-redesign thread, that you rail on her skimpy outfit and shallow character is ironic considering your Samara love.

Jack is clearly less sexualized than Samara (Jack's apprearance in general is not meant to appeal, but detract). And as a character, Samara's great "wisdom" entails some very foolish lines of thinking.

And being as I am over 20 and a fan of this game, I don't buy that BW is catering to teens on this game either.


Nobody here was pissing on Jack. There was only one comment and it was in defence of Miranda. Jack is a great character and her outfit goes well with her, in combat it's different.

Samara's great "wisdom" as you put it, it's a wisdom that has grown withing the justicar code, don't expect to understand it or accept it.


This OP was, and he/she has a way for eluding the comment twice now.

And no, it's Samara's personal wisdom. That she believes ignorance to be safer than curiosity is retarded no matter how you spin it. Jack's street-smarts are more in touch with reality than the 600 y.o. warrior.

#155
D.Kain

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mauro2222 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Yes she follows her code without using her own head, that's the defenition of a zealot. 

Guy: Do we really need to know how many people are in that subway station? ( prepares explosives on his waist )


They know, but they don't care... Samara does not wish to know because it may affect her. She is committed to this cause, she is not following it blindly. I won't be able to make you understand this. Another example would be the Bushido code.


Sorry I take peoples actions not their words or what they think. Actions speak louder, and her actions say what she is. She may noit like it but she does it, and that's what really matters, because she has the power to not follow her code, and she CHOOSES to follow it. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 20 novembre 2011 - 03:13 .


#156
mauro2222

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Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

And no, it's Samara's personal wisdom. That she believes ignorance to be safer than curiosity is retarded no matter how you spin it. Jack's street-smarts are more in touch with reality than the 600 y.o. warrior.


Wisdom has many faces, and elder is wise no matter he does or has done, only for the simple fact that he/she has lived a life.

#157
D.Kain

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mauro2222 wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

And no, it's Samara's personal wisdom. That she believes ignorance to be safer than curiosity is retarded no matter how you spin it. Jack's street-smarts are more in touch with reality than the 600 y.o. warrior.


Wisdom has many faces, and elder is wise no matter he does or has done, only for the simple fact that he/she has lived a life.


Not true. An old farmer that lived all life without education, working in the field, is not more wise than a young man that studied a lot and read a lot of books. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 20 novembre 2011 - 03:14 .


#158
mauro2222

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D.Kain wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

And no, it's Samara's personal wisdom. That she believes ignorance to be safer than curiosity is retarded no matter how you spin it. Jack's street-smarts are more in touch with reality than the 600 y.o. warrior.


Wisdom has many faces, and elder is wise no matter he does or has done, only for the simple fact that he/she has lived a life.


Not true. An old farmer that lived all life without education, working in the field, is not more wise than a young man that studied a lot and read a lot of books. 


That is knowledge, wisdom comes from practice.

#159
Xilizhra

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mauro2222 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

And no, it's Samara's personal wisdom. That she believes ignorance to be safer than curiosity is retarded no matter how you spin it. Jack's street-smarts are more in touch with reality than the 600 y.o. warrior.


Wisdom has many faces, and elder is wise no matter he does or has done, only for the simple fact that he/she has lived a life.


Not true. An old farmer that lived all life without education, working in the field, is not more wise than a young man that studied a lot and read a lot of books. 


That is knowledge, wisdom comes from practice.

I don't know... that sounds more like experience. "Wisdom" is too vague a word to try to define anything really important.

#160
Killjoy Cutter

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Being old doesn't make someone wise.

#161
mauro2222

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Xilizhra wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

And no, it's Samara's personal wisdom. That she believes ignorance to be safer than curiosity is retarded no matter how you spin it. Jack's street-smarts are more in touch with reality than the 600 y.o. warrior.


Wisdom has many faces, and elder is wise no matter he does or has done, only for the simple fact that he/she has lived a life.


Not true. An old farmer that lived all life without education, working in the field, is not more wise than a young man that studied a lot and read a lot of books. 


That is knowledge, wisdom comes from practice.

I don't know... that sounds more like experience. "Wisdom" is too vague a word to try to define anything really important.


It's exactly that, as more experience you have, your wisdom on such practice grows too.

Modifié par mauro2222, 20 novembre 2011 - 03:25 .


#162
slimgrin

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Being old doesn't make someone wise.


Unless they're like 500 yrs old.

#163
Dean_the_Young

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slimgrin wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Being old doesn't make someone wise.


Unless they're like 500 yrs old.

If at 500 years old they act like 50 year old men, I think you're countering your own point.

#164
Goneaviking

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

DeathDragon185 wrote...

Asari are different than Humans okay, why are we arguing??
Legion: "To apply another species ethics to another is racist"(im am paraphrasing here i can't really remember)


"No two species are identical. All must be judged on their own merits. Treating every species like one's own is racist. Even benign anthropomorphism." 

That's a great line by Legion.


It is a great line, and I think it makes sense in real world scenarios.

However the asari were developed to titillate players by virtue of being blue alien supermodels. With that in mind it is both reasonable and commendable to judge them with the knowledge that they are fiction created to a purpose.

Personally I dislike it. It's moral relativism as it's basest even though the Geth advocate a pan-species ideology of development.

It's one of those lines that sounds nice, but is meaningless in practice. It invalidates all standards of measurements of a group other than the ones of its own creation... but such self-evaluation is hardly objective nor does it have any standard compared to others.


A failure to understand the frame of reference of the person, or group, that you're dealing with will make interacting productively more difficult, and depending on the nature of the interactions could be disastrous.

I have occasionally been obliged to immerse myself in foreign communities both for work and personal reasons; it was a striking realisation for me to make that they really didn't see the world they way I did. They interpreted gestures, symbolism and events in a completely different way than I did; as a result they reacted in ways that seemed to me completely unpredictable.

When we spoke about seemingly simple and universal concepts it amazed me that they often not only understood it in a remarkably different way than I was accustomed to, but prioritised it in a very different manner than I did.

They were not stupid people, nor uncivilised and trying to foist my own principles and standards on them would not only have been counterproductive, it absolutely would have been racist.

Morality and ethics are interpreted subjectively everywhere. It may be relativism, but keeping that in mind also makes it easier to navigate socially and diplomatically.

#165
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Nerevar-as wrote...

Considering Arrival and justicar code, I´m half expecting if she appears in ME3 it´ll be to try and kill Shepard regerless of the rest of ME3.

Not really. She knows what it means to do what is necessary to accomplish a goal.

#166
Dean_the_Young

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Viking, there's a great deal of difference between understanding the frame of reference for other cultures, and insisting that the only valid frame of reference for other cultures is their own.

The first, which you advocate, is very appropriate and true. The second, which Legion advocates, is not.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 20 novembre 2011 - 03:32 .


#167
mauro2222

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Being old doesn't make someone wise.


They have wisdom about life itself. You don't need to be old in order to be wise, that's true.

#168
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D.Kain wrote...

Yes she follows her code without using her own head, that's the defenition of a zealot. 

Guy: Do we really need to know how many people are in that subway station? ( prepares explosives on his waist )

I shouldn't be suprised that you'd get the definition of "zealot" wrong on top of describing Samara inaccurately.

Modifié par jreezy, 20 novembre 2011 - 03:34 .


#169
Killjoy Cutter

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mauro2222 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Being old doesn't make someone wise.


They have wisdom about life itself. You don't need to be old in order to be wise, that's true.


They have more experience.  Many people fail to process their experience into wisdom. 

#170
slimgrin

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Samara is not a zealot. Some folks need to look up the definition of that word.

#171
Destroy Raiden_

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While she does have a mysterious past she too is fan service OP that's why her original outfit on concept dropped the neckline in reality makes it hard to take her seriously when shes basically screaming shoot me. I like that Liara knows how to cover up for battle.

#172
Killjoy Cutter

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http://dictionary.re...m/browse/zealot

http://www.merriam-w...ctionary/zealot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealotry

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 20 novembre 2011 - 03:45 .


#173
GodWood

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1.A person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.

Sounds exactly like Samara to me.

#174
mauro2222

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Being old doesn't make someone wise.


They have wisdom about life itself. You don't need to be old in order to be wise, that's true.


They have more experience.  Many people fail to process their experience into wisdom. 


True, I should have added that.

#175
D.Kain

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jreezy wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Yes she follows her code without using her own head, that's the defenition of a zealot. 

Guy: Do we really need to know how many people are in that subway station? ( prepares explosives on his waist )

I shouldn't be suprised that you'd get the definition of "zealot" wrong on top of describing Samara inaccurately.


You are the most nitpicking person ever. You know what I meant. She serves her code with passion and that is greater than her other morals, and thus she doesn't use her other knowledge to solve situations on purpose.