125 réponses à ce sujet

[BBK4114]

Addai67 wrote...

Cyberarmy wrote...
I agree.
Skyrims UI can be hard to use for some PC players(lol just update and learn to use keyboard...)

Patronize much?  I do use the keyboard, but even this is awkward.  E to select a dialogue choice sometimes yields nothing.  So I try the mouse, and either way it's a 50-50 chance whether this will produce the dialogue choice I actually wanted.  R is "take all" for looting, but also "store," so if I'm not careful I take the entire storage cupboard in my house into my inventory when I'm trying to move one piece into it.

DA2 was better than this, though I agree that I would have liked to have the description of skills pop up when you hover over them.

LOL! Done this more than a few times myself. Creation Kit is due out soon. Someone will fix it.  

Gee - a company that encourages modding. Go figure. 

[Atakuma]

BBK4114 wrote...

LOL! Done this more than a few times myself. Creation Kit is due out soon. Someone will fix it.  

Gee - a company that encourages modding. Go figure. 

Bethesda only encourages modding so they can steal ideas and make lazy ports.

[Realmzmaster]

BBK4114 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Cyberarmy wrote...
I agree.
Skyrims UI can be hard to use for some PC players(lol just update and learn to use keyboard...)

Patronize much?  I do use the keyboard, but even this is awkward.  E to select a dialogue choice sometimes yields nothing.  So I try the mouse, and either way it's a 50-50 chance whether this will produce the dialogue choice I actually wanted.  R is "take all" for looting, but also "store," so if I'm not careful I take the entire storage cupboard in my house into my inventory when I'm trying to move one piece into it.

DA2 was better than this, though I agree that I would have liked to have the description of skills pop up when you hover over them.

LOL! Done this more than a few times myself. Creation Kit is due out soon. Someone will fix it.  

Gee - a company that encourages modding. Go figure. 

Why should I have to relie on modders to fix something that the developers should have done in their initial design? Why am I surprised, Bethesda did the same thing with Oblivion and modders saved that game from oblivion.

[Maria Caliban]

DocRemo wrote...

After experiencing the miserable (and unplayable) control systems ported to the PC versions of Witcher 2 and Skyrim, I have a renewed appreciation for the user interface created by the devs of Dragon Age.   Thank you for the things I often overlook and take for granted, and for the many hours of enjoyable gameplay I've had with Dragon Age.

Skyrim's interface is clunky and unoptimized, but certainly playable.

But DA's is better than both of them. I agree.

[craigdolphin]

I though the OP was trolling initially. But after reading his post I gather he's talking about the functionality of the UI/Control system as opposed to the aesthetic of the UI. In which case, I agree with him WRT Skyrim, but not sure whether it's fair to claim TW2 was better or worse. They're about equally functional IMO.

But the choice of aesthetic for the DA2 UI was really quite uninspiring, and felt very out-of-place given the nature of the game.

[nightscrawl]

craigdolphin wrote...

But the choice of aesthetic for the DA2 UI was really quite uninspiring, and felt very out-of-place given the nature of the game.

I found the modern style UI for DA2 an odd choice, especially given the UI they had in DAO. Overall, DAO had a more gritty feel which added to the whole game. The action bar especially is my favorite part of DAO's UI.

I also felt that DAO's UI just had a bit more polish. One example is there are no cooldown animations (in DA2) when an ability is available, making it hard to see on darker icons like some of the Reaver abilities. DAO had a nice sparkle effect that was easy to notice. Minor things like that contribute to the overall feel of a complete UI.

As far as skill icons go, I do think that DA2 got one thing right: different shapes for different uses. Activated abilities are diamonds, sustained are hexagons, passive abilities are circles. I'm not crazy about the chosen shapes given the more modern style, but the concept is great.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 22 novembre 2011 - 08:23 .

[Maria Caliban]

I'm not an expert when it comes to UI, but for me DA 2 icons > DA:O icons. The combination of shapes for different functionality and brighter colors with solid contrast was nice, even if some people considered it cartoony.

[esper]

nightscrawl wrote...

craigdolphin wrote...

But the choice of aesthetic for the DA2 UI was really quite uninspiring, and felt very out-of-place given the nature of the game.

I found the modern style UI for DA2 an odd choice, especially given the UI they had in DAO. Overall, DAO had a more gritty feel which added to the whole game. The action bar especially is my favorite part of DAO's UI.

I also felt that DAO's UI just had a bit more polish. One example is there are no cooldown animations (in DA2) when an ability is available, making it hard to see on darker icons like some of the Reaver abilities. DAO had a nice sparkle effect that was easy to notice. Minor things like that contribute to the overall feel of a complete UI.

As far as skill icons go, I do think that DA2 got one thing right: different shapes for different uses. Activated abilities are diamonds, sustained are hexagons, passive abilities are circles. I'm not crazy about the chosen shapes given the more modern style, but the concept is great.

Wait what? I am pretty sure there is a cooldowm animation. At least there is on ps3. It is quite easy to see if it is available or not and cirka how long before it is avaible again.

[Ramus Quaritch]

Funny, because Skyrim puts Dragon Age 2 to shame as an RPG.

[Pedrak]

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

Funny, because Skyrim puts Dragon Age 2 to shame as an RPG.

From several points of view (ex. exploration, game world, character creation) definitely - there's no comparison.

Although dialogues, companions and quests in DA2, while a step down from DAO, are still better than Bethesda's.

Modifié par Pedrak, 23 novembre 2011 - 03:38 .

[Dubya75]

Pedrak wrote...

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

Funny, because Skyrim puts Dragon Age 2 to shame as an RPG.

From several points of view (ex. exploration, game world, character creation) definitely - there's no comparison.

Although dialogues, companions and quests in DA2, while a step down from DAO, are still better than Bethesda's.

Indeed. Dargon Age II can't stand next to Skyrim in terms of being an RPG, but Bioware does some things better than anyone else.
Just wish they would get back to the roots of what it means to make an RPG.

[Dragoonlordz]

DocRemo wrote...

After experiencing the miserable (and unplayable) control systems ported to the PC versions of Witcher 2 and Skyrim, I have a renewed appreciation for the user interface created by the devs of Dragon Age.   Thank you for the things I often overlook and take for granted, and for the many hours of enjoyable gameplay I've had with Dragon Age.

You have a preference? Welcome to the real world ~so does everyone else have such a thing, I prefer Skyrims to DA2 by a million miles and even prefer it to TW2 but even so TW2 for me is far better than DA2 version UI and DAO UI to me was on par with Skyrims but far better than DA2 and TW2.. But thats all it is = a preference.

You may keep playing DA2 for all I care it's not a problem for me but just remember that Skyrim sold more than DA2 in mere two days compared lifetime so far of DA2. The Witcher 2 sold more than three times the amount (on it's format PC) and I would not be surprised if when the 360 version is out it does the same there.

Their new game series will be their take on Alpha Protocol which is to say modern day spy/shooter maybe based in middle east type as well as major other locations based in like cities and such or alternative desert planet with the standard bioware plop on their dialogue system to anything added on top I think and if so J. Epler will be happy bunny since he liked that title of AP (if I am correct in my assumption of what it is even). I also wouldn't be surprised if it is in first person view for that series if I were you they may make the mistake of thinking first person view is reason why Skyrim selling so well and may try to copy that while at same time pull in CoD numbers.

I lost interest in TOR the moment learned they copy + pasted WoWs loot system and the space element is nothing more than on rails dodge asteriods moving left and right while spamming fire button. So ME3 is the only thing they doing that looks good to me at all right now and can't see that changing much in next few years. What got me interested at all in it was as normal their dialogue system in an MMO enviroment seeing what could do and branching choices and dialogue but for the upsides of it, there are too many downsides to the game imho.

Bioware have only two things going for them right now which is the dialogue system they tack onto everything they make and the party member/companion element. Thats all imho. The writing is ok but no better than a lot of other games writing. That might seem like being mean but thats imho the reality of what they are pushing out these days product wise. Will have to wait years before see what they do with DA3 but not getting hopes up. To me they are the new Squeenix in that they had some amazing titles and gone down hill since and if buy it ends up just being because was nothing out at time that felt like buying so comes in at wait for price drops type products. I get the impression they just don't know what to do at the moment what they want or direction want to go so fiddle/throw around bits and pieces till something sticks.

Anyways I went off a bit sidetracked but yet it's a preference what UI you like thats is all. Unplayable as anything more than preference is fallacy.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 23 novembre 2011 - 05:15 .

[LobselVith8]

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

Funny, because Skyrim puts Dragon Age 2 to shame as an RPG.

I think that has a lot of flaws with Dragon Age II - the passive protagonist of Hawke, the inability for the storyline to acknowledge apostate Hawke as an illegal mage seriously (which created such an enormous seperation between the gameplay and the storyline that it seemed like the two happened in different universes), the protagonist standing idly by while people got killed or when clearly dangerous people walked away, and there was no effort made to explain the reason behind the fetch quests, there was no 'rise to power,' and the protagonist was forced to accept companions even if it went against their style and character (i.e. apostates for a pro-templar Hawke).

The conflict between mages and templars that was ridiculous. Origins managed to convey the good and bad that mages were capable of, with Connor nearly destroying Redcliffe because he wasn't properly trained to understand his power or even understand that the "bad lady" was actually a demon, and Jowan being capable of redemption for his mistakes as Master Levyn aiding refugees, while there were good templars being shown throughout the narrative - Ser Bryant, the Lothering templars, Ser Otto, and even Knight-Commander Greagoir. In contrast, the sequel goes out of its way to make both sides seem as monstrous and ridiculous as possible.

Given how the caricature depiction of mages as being virtually nothing more than insane and stupid people who made asinine decisions that made no sense, and the templars were depicted as virtually being full of rapists and sadists who tortured and murdered with impunity, and the conflict that was central to this storyline felt as though this was a rendition of Rocky and Bullwinkle in Thedas instead of a serious look at the dichotomy between two irreconcilable factions that had opposing ideologies. I would have preferred if mages and templars were handled seriously, with the leaders of both sides being reasonable people who simply had a different perspective, rather than everyone devolving into a complete moron as though this was a bad sketch comedy.

Skyrim wasn't perfect, and there's room for improvement. The companions could have been fleshed out more, and the faction quests should have been longer. The lag time is an issue for people who have played the game for a while, which was also an issue for Fallout: New Vegas. However, the flaws with Dragon Age II have to do mainly with the story, and the protagonist who (as Carver addresses in Legacy) "punched his way" to being Champion instead of using his wits and cunning to achieve any serious 'rise to power' in the city-state of Kirkwall. Based on the two story DLCs that have been released since Dragon Age II was released, which both story DLCs ending with Hawke making things much worse and doing absolutely nothing about the antagonist who walks away right in front of him, I can't say that I find much enjoyment from Dragon Age II.

[Realmzmaster]

Last time I check this thread was about the relative merits of each games PC UI not about how one game is better than the other in different aspects.

The OP was stating that the interface made it unplayable for him to get to the good aspects of those games. Nowhere did he state that TW2 or Skyrim were bad RPGs. He cannot ascertain that one way of the other because he cannot come to grips with the control system.

Others did not have that problem. Explain to him why he is wrong. I told others have found playing with a 360 controller helped. It does not matter how many copies of TW2 or Skyrim sold if he cannot play the games he bought. Everyone is so quick to come to the defense of different games without acknowledging that maybe that person has a valid point.

If you think that he is wrong about the PC UI for Skyrim and TW2 point out why. It seems that the first action people take is to point out how superior the other games are in different area as compared to DA2 which has nothing to do with the post. Let's try to stay on topic. Otherwise it just becomes another gripe session about DA2 and the thread will be locked.

[xCirdanx]

Can´t speak about Skyrim, though i have heard some negative things about the UI, bugs, etc, but i had no problem at all with the interface of TW2 and DA2. I still consider the TW2 superior in every aspect compared to DA2.

[Marionetten]

Skyrim's interface is indeed horrible but at least it will be fixed at some point.

Dragon Age II will never be fixed.

[FaWa]

Would it ever be possible for PCs to have different UIs then consoles. 
DA2's UI is relatively good, but Skyrim...I can't even deal with it right now. 

We'll have to wait for mods to come out i guess. 

[Morty Smith]

I like to provide an opinion of equal value on the matter.

No.

Modifié par Kroitz, 24 novembre 2011 - 12:33 .

[Realmzmaster]

Games for PCs should have a UI that fits . The same is true for consoles. The point is that many games are being created with consoles in mind because that is where the numbers are, which is good business.
The game is then ported to the PC and the developers do very little to nothing to fit the control system and UI to the platform.

The reason may be budget. It maybe that the PC port is an afterthought and developer feels they can scrimp on changing the UI for PC gamers since they are in the minority. It maybe that the game will be ported to the consoles from the PC. The PC game will then have the UI and control system modified within the PC game so that the port will be easier.

The UI and the control system should be designed first and the rest of the game built around it. It may be that the team was told to wrap it up after 5 years of development, get it ready to ship and not worry about adapting the UI to the PC if it was functional enough for gamers to use.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 24 novembre 2011 - 12:56 .

[devSin]

FaWa wrote...

Would it ever be possible for PCs to have different UIs then consoles.

It's possible. DA2 already has differences between PCs and console (the schizophrenic talents screen is done slightly differently in the console versions, for instance).

But it takes time and effort. In the old days, when the teams and companies and sales and population were smaller, you could more readily choose to spend that time and effort on the details.

These days, those details provide almost no return, so the time and effort will invariably be spent elsewhere.

Modifié par devSin, 24 novembre 2011 - 01:01 .

[deatharmonic]

I thought these forums didn't do comparison threads? or is that only when talking about games which are better than DA2?

[Realmzmaster]

deatharmonic wrote...

I thought these forums didn't do comparison threads? or is that only when talking about games which are better than DA2?

We are debating the relative merits of UI design and how PC gamers are being ignored when it comes to designing the UI for that platform. The OP was pointing out that he could not get into Skyrim nor TW2 because of the design of the UI. He was not comparing the content nor over all quality of the games because he cannot come to grips with their UI.

The discussion has gone on to note that many developers are creating their UI with consoles in mind and then doing a quick port to the PC without optimizing the UI for the PC platform.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 25 novembre 2011 - 04:49 .

[Morty Smith]

VS-threads, allowed as of now.