20 réponses à ce sujet

[I Tsunayoshi I]

 Just as the Topic says. I'm planning a new mage, specializing in the Elementalist, Primal, and Force trees while picking up Spirit Healer for just a little extra mana and no real investment in spells.

Curious for the big time items I should be looking for and if I would actually benefit from picking up any staffs that are not from a DLC pack.

[Relix28]

Are you asking for the build tips as well, or just staves?

There are only three unique staves for sale that are worth metioning.

Act1 - dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Staff_of_the_Primal_Order - The best cold staff for act 1, useful until you get Cold Blooded.

Act2 - dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Cold-Blooded - The best cold staff for act 2, still useful in act 3, but high-lvl generic ones might be better.

Act3 - dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/The_Final_Thought - The best nature staff in the game, has great synergy with Spirit Bolt (+33% spirit damage). massive stamina boost is perfect for a non-bloodmage build. Personally, I always slap the Primeval rune onto it (instead of Torch of Falon Din), since there are a lot more nature weak enemies compared to fire weak ones in act 3. And I do tend to switch between staves to hit elemental weaknesses quite a lot. If you are to lazy to switch between staves, the Torch might be a better choice for the PLR.

I think that about covers the staves. If you have any other questions, go ahead.

Modifié par Relix28, 20 novembre 2011 - 07:04 .

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Might as well sit on Malcolm's staff from the dlc pack for most of the game since it has its own amazing benefits up until Final Thought becomes available.

Any items to look out for since the usual assortment of Blood Mage goods are not needed?

[Relix28]

If you are not playing on nightmare (elemental immunities) and are not going to switch between staves, Malcolm's Honor is probably your best weapon of choice until the Primeval rune.

As far as armor goes, the helmets from item pack 1 are the best in the game. Item pack 2 has the best gloves, chestpieces and boots.
dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Robes_of_Unblemished_Cleanliness - This chestpiece might be a better choice, if you don't intend to use spirit based weapons/spells much and focus more on other elements.


Accessories depend on what kind of build you are going for.
For pure mage/elemntal damage there are a couple of accessories worth mentioning.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Dura's_Blue_Flame

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Ring_of_the_Ferryman

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Smite

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Belt_of_the_Primevals


But, if you are going for a crit based mage build (wich is much more superior in terms of DPS), you should check out mr_afk's crit-mage guide. social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/305/index/7075118

Modifié par Relix28, 20 novembre 2011 - 07:34 .

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Only access to Spirit I see myself having will be the normal attack from my staff since I am going to be using the staff from Item Pack 1 through Act 3 at the very least.

I did not even know about Malvernis or Smite so that should be interesting to go after and I will have to go and start up on DA Legends to get Dura's Blue Flame as a gimmie since I have never touched that.

I assume that most of those will last for a while and will not wear out in a hurry.

I am planning to be sticking mostly to elemental/primal trees with Force being the only spec I am going to invest into. Spirit Healer will be strictly for its bonus.

[GoodFella146]

Sora Kitano wrote...

 Just as the Topic says. I'm planning a new mage, specializing in the Elementalist, Primal, and Force trees while picking up Spirit Healer for just a little extra mana and no real investment in spells.

Curious for the big time items I should be looking for and if I would actually benefit from picking up any staffs that are not from a DLC pack.

What you have in mind is almost what I use.  It's the most powerful mage in my opinion, as I beat the game and all the DLC on Nightmare using no health/mana/stamina potions at all the entire game (or through the DLC).

I max out the entire Elementalist Tree (except Fireball upgrade); take Rock Armor, Chain Lightning (& upgrade), and Tempest (& upgrade) from the Primal Tree; take Dispel Magic (which in my opinion is the single most underrated spell in the game) from the Spirit Tree; take Heal (& upgrade), Haste (& upgrade), and Heroic Aura (no upgrade) from the Creation Tree; Fist of the Maker, Telekinetic Blast, Gravitic Ring (& upgrade), and Pull of the Abyss from the Force Mage Tree; then max out the entire Spirit Healer Tree except for either of the Revival upgrades and Radiance.

The idea behind everything is to not die.  Everyone on the forum seems to focus on damage per strike but that's really useless when your party member is dead.  I guess if you use health potions then you can just spam that, but I find that to be really lame (& unnecessary).

Instead my party stays alive and gets way more shots in.  All of my character's damage per strike is really low so I instead have my characters set-up to preform as many cross class combos as possible.  You still want to focus fire on one enemy at a time to eliminate threats and all, so in combat a lot of the actual playing will play the same.

What you have to keep in mind is that health and mana are restored in terms of percents.  So if your heal spell gives you +80% health and your constitution is only 100, then a Heal spell isn't nearly as useful if say your health is 300.  All of my companions have their constitutions really high with exactly 100% attack on a normal enemy.  So like for example, I use Fenris who has 75% attack with no abilities turned on.  I then activate Control for +10% and Heroic Aura for +15%.  Using this idea and +attack items (especially DLC - get a job and buy it, it's so worth it!  if you have a job then remember you can't take your money with you when you die!), you can get your constitution really high.  My level 26 Fenris has 622 health points, good luck taking that down baddies!  LOL 

If you're worried about getting enough damage in, believe me it's not an issue.  Trash mobs won't be strong enough to kill you so all you have to worry about are the elite characters and too many trash mobs at once.  Elite characters you take down with cross class combo after cross class combo and Haste.

Anyway, to more directly answer your question, the 'big' items to look for are: The Belt of Promise, Jewel of the Ether, The Fallen Star, Champion Armor Set (for all the mana), and The Final Thought (again for all the mana).  I use all of the companion items for both DLC packs as those are better than anything you'll find in the game.  Also, I like to use a warriror with and upgraded Rally ability (takes care of mana issues).  Ring of the Ferryman is nice but isn't necessary.  If you really insist on no DLC then look for rings and belts that say +X health AND +X attack.  There should be a lot around and having one seems to spawn others (so don't sell them right away!).

Hopefully the above helps and have fun!

Modifié par GoodFella146, 20 novembre 2011 - 09:11 .

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I have DLC available and have pretty much bought everything that has come out to date.

Should be fun to see how this run turns out with some DAL stuff available too.

[Relix28]

GoodFella146 wrote...

Sora Kitano wrote...

 Just as the Topic says. I'm planning a new mage, specializing in the Elementalist, Primal, and Force trees while picking up Spirit Healer for just a little extra mana and no real investment in spells.

Curious for the big time items I should be looking for and if I would actually benefit from picking up any staffs that are not from a DLC pack.

What you have in mind is almost what I use.  It's the most powerful mage in my opinion, as I beat the game and all the DLC on Nightmare using no health/mana/stamina potions at all the entire game (or through the DLC).

I max out the entire Elementalist Tree (except Fireball upgrade); take Rock Armor, Chain Lightning (& upgrade), and Tempest (& upgrade) from the Primal Tree; take Dispel Magic (which in my opinion is the single most underrated spell in the game) from the Spirit Tree; take Heal (& upgrade), Haste (& upgrade), and Heroic Aura (no upgrade) from the Creation Tree; Fist of the Maker, Telekinetic Blast, Gravitic Ring (& upgrade), and Pull of the Abyss from the Force Mage Tree; then max out the entire Spirit Healer Tree except for either of the Revival upgrades and Radiance.

The idea behind everything is to not die.  Everyone on the forum seems to focus on damage per strike but that's really useless when your party member is dead.  I guess if you use health potions then you can just spam that, but I find that to be really lame (& unnecessary).

Instead my party stays alive and gets way more shots in.  All of my character's damage per strike is really low so I instead have my characters set-up to preform as many cross class combos as possible.  You still want to focus fire on one enemy at a time to eliminate threats and all, so in combat a lot of the actual playing will play the same.

What you have to keep in mind is that health and mana are restored in terms of percents.  So if your heal spell gives you +80% health and your constitution is only 100, then a Heal spell isn't nearly as useful if say your health is 300.  All of my companions have their constitutions really high with exactly 100% attack on a normal enemy.  So like for example, I use Fenris who has 75% attack with no abilities turned on.  I then activate Control for +10% and Heroic Aura for +15%.  Using this idea and +attack items (especially DLC - get a job and buy it, it's so worth it!  if you have a job then remember you can't take your money with you when you die!), you can get your constitution really high.  My level 26 Fenris has 622 health points, good luck taking that down baddies!  LOL 

If you're worried about getting enough damage in, believe me it's not an issue.  Trash mobs won't be strong enough to kill you so all you have to worry about are the elite characters and too many trash mobs at once.  Elite characters you take down with cross class combo after cross class combo and Haste.

Anyway, to more directly answer your question, the 'big' items to look for are: The Belt of Promise, Jewel of the Ether, The Fallen Star, Champion Armor Set (for all the mana), and The Final Thought (again for all the mana).  I use all of the companion items for both DLC packs as those are better than anything you'll find in the game.  Also, I like to use a warriror with and upgraded Rally ability (takes care of mana issues).  Ring of the Ferryman is nice but isn't necessary.  If you really insist on no DLC then look for rings and belts that say +X health AND +X attack.  There should be a lot around and having one seems to spawn others (so don't sell them right away!).

Hopefully the above helps and have fun!

^^ The amount of fail in the above post is staggering. /facepalm

I don't have the will nor the time to point out all the fail and try to explain it all again. If someone else is up to it, go ahead. I'm sort of tired of it.

I'm out.

Modifié par Relix28, 20 novembre 2011 - 09:51 .

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I have my Talent choices already worked out. Not really intending to follow the one given since this isnt my first time playing a mage. Just the first time I am trying to gear up with top end stuff

[mr_afk]

Relix28 wrote...

^^ The amount of fail in the above post is staggering. /facepalm

I don't have the will nor the time to point out all the fail and try to explain it all again. If someone else is up to it, go ahead. I'm sort of tired of it.

I'm out.

I've got this 
probably should take a break from skyrim anyway.

GoodFella146 wrote...

What you have in mind is almost what I use.  It's the most powerful mage in my opinion, as I beat the game and all the DLC on Nightmare using no health/mana/stamina potions at all the entire game (or through the DLC). 

First of all, that's a very odd definition of 'most powerful'.
I don't really see the power in not having to use any potions and relying on revives and heals instead.

I max out the entire Elementalist Tree (except Fireball upgrade); take Rock Armor, Chain Lightning (& upgrade), and Tempest (& upgrade) from the Primal Tree; take Dispel Magic (which in my opinion is the single most underrated spell in the game) from the Spirit Tree; take Heal (& upgrade), Haste (& upgrade), and Heroic Aura (no upgrade) from the Creation Tree; Fist of the Maker, Telekinetic Blast, Gravitic Ring (& upgrade), and Pull of the Abyss from the Force Mage Tree; then max out the entire Spirit Healer Tree except for either of the Revival upgrades and Radiance.

Your spell choices aren't actually all that bad. I mean, dispel magic is underrated because you shouldn't need it because in most cases you can just kill off enemies before they do anything requiring a dispel (so it's only really useful for a solo mage and only in certain fights).

If you're going for a spirit healer/buffer build (which you are), I would think that you've pretty much got that sorted. The main problem is in the thought process about the need for a spirit healer.
Also, I have reason to suspect that you have some ridiculous amount of constitution/points other than magic. Which is my main qualm to be honest.
Some constitution can be useful for the risk-adverse less glassy players. But having a whole party with high constitution just sounds like a recipe to long drawn out fights (with people dying).

The idea behind everything is to not die.  Everyone on the forum seems to focus on damage per strike but that's really useless when your party member is dead.  I guess if you use health potions then you can just spam that, but I find that to be really lame (& unnecessary).

The major point you seem to be missing is that a higher damage (which works to increases both damage per strike and spells and talents) means  that the majority of enemies can be killed before they can deal any damage.

If you look at any of the vids out there, (unless you're looking at solo/muck around setups) you'll hardly ever see anyone using health potions. There is usually a back up heal from Anders, but even that isn't really used much.

Unlike a lower dps party, one pull of the abyss + grav ring + firestorm will wipe out most the enemies and their attacks on dual haste will kill thing in a second or less.
A lower dps party would be forced to rely on other tactics to finish fights, basically dragging on the fight and giving the enemies more opportunities to inflict damage on your party, and thus giving rise to the need for healing.

Instead my party stays alive and gets way more shots in.  All of my character's damage per strike is really low so I instead have my characters set-up to preform as many cross class combos as possible.  You still want to focus fire on one enemy at a time to eliminate threats and all, so in combat a lot of the actual playing will play the same.

Well, I suppose it's up to you - but a CCC won't be available all the time and won't be as damaging as it could be.

What you have to keep in mind is that health and mana are restored in terms of percents.  So if your heal spell gives you +80% health and your constitution is only 100, then a Heal spell isn't nearly as useful if say your health is 300.  All of my companions have their constitutions really high with exactly 100% attack on a normal enemy.  So like for example, I use Fenris who has 75% attack with no abilities turned on.  I then activate Control for +10% and Heroic Aura for +15%.  Using this idea and +attack items (especially DLC - get a job and buy it, it's so worth it!  if you have a job then remember you can't take your money with you when you die!), you can get your constitution really high.  My level 26 Fenris has 622 health points, good luck taking that down baddies!  LOL  

aand.. He probably deals crap all damage?

If you're worried about getting enough damage in, believe me it's not an issue.  Trash mobs won't be strong enough to kill you so all you have to worry about are the elite characters and too many trash mobs at once.  Elite characters you take down with cross class combo after cross class combo and Haste.

And this is the big point!
The key to why a healer build is unnecessary!
All you need to do is kill off elite characters yes?

Anything else can't really harm your party - so all that is really required is a bit of crowd control and focus fire/CCCs/spike damage.
Having a higher dps setup means that you can kill off the elites before they can even do any damage - so you don't ever have to worry about anything.
In your lower dps setup enemy elites will be like juggernauts and will be able wreck havoc for longer (and thus causing you to need to 'heal' if not use potions.

Anyway, to more directly answer your question, the 'big' items to look for are: The Belt of Promise, Jewel of the Ether, The Fallen Star, Champion Armor Set (for all the mana), and The Final Thought (again for all the mana).  I use all of the companion items for both DLC packs as those are better than anything you'll find in the game.  Also, I like to use a warriror with and upgraded Rally ability (takes care of mana issues).  Ring of the Ferryman is nice but isn't necessary.  If you really insist on no DLC then look for rings and belts that say +X health AND +X attack.  There should be a lot around and having one seems to spawn others (so don't sell them right away!).

Hopefully the above helps and have fun!

Belt of Promise is a good belt for durability.
Pumping willpower/items giving willpower are not. As they also do not give any damage bonuses they are the definition of useless. Just use death syphon or something if you're not using blood magic.

The fallen star is over-priced, but in terms of durability it is alright. If you're looking for more damage resistance you could try a cross-class helm of a thousand battles. I'm sure diverting a few points from willpower to strength won't hurt your character's dps too much. <_<

The Champion Armour sorta sucks. But hey, you're not going for damage. Because otherwise the dlc item pack gear is the best.



Uhh,.. just to finish, I don't think your play-style is necessarily 'terrible', and the spirit healer mentality has been floating around these forums (mostly pre-patch).
But the general consensus (and for good reason) is that having a higher damage output will allow your party to receive less damage and thus survive just as well without as much healing/constitution.
Especially post-patch where fights are so much easier, all you need to do to survive (and not even drink any potions) is to deal enough damage to the right enemies.

This means that any setup with hawke (and from the sounds of it, everyone else) dealing low damage is unnecessary and that the job of a spirit healer should be largely unnecessary.


That said, the goal of a game is to have fun. So even if we differ on opinions of what constitutes 'most powerful', if it works for you that's all that really matters


/i've spieled for longer than intended and need to get back to skyrim. lates 

Modifié par mr_afk, 21 novembre 2011 - 05:37 .

[Relix28]

Thnx for clearing it up for him. I like helping people out and all, but sometimes I facepalm myself too hard and then loose all will to continue.

Well, it's back to skyrim for me too.

[GoodFella146]

Finally have a day off and can properly reply!

mr_afk wrote...

First of all, that's a very odd definition of 'most powerful'.
I don't really see the power in not having to use any potions and relying on revives and heals instead.

I didn't mean most powerful from a damage per ability standpoint, that's obviously not what is the case.  I meant most powerful in that I never even came close to losing a single battle.  I've played the otherway with Blood Magic and extremely glassy characters and they all die too easy.  I could beat it with health potions but that isn't fun to me at all.  You don't die to trash mobs or anything weak but to Arcane Horrors, bosses, and sometimes multiple assassins.  I guarantee you rely on health potions.

Your spell choices aren't actually all that bad. I mean, dispel magic is underrated because you shouldn't
need it because in most cases you can just kill off enemies before they do anything requiring a dispel (so it's only really useful for a solo mage and only in certain fights).

How do you drop the Sky Horror that fast when he instantly bombs your whole party with Death Cloud?  It's not just that Arcane Horror, either, there are a few really powerful enemies capable of wiping your party throughout the game.

If you're going for a spirit healer/buffer build (which you are), I would think that you've pretty much got that sorted. The main problem is in the thought process about the need for a spirit healer.
Also, I have reason to suspect that you have some ridiculous amount of constitution/points other than magic.  Which is my main qualm to be honest.
Some constitution can be useful for the risk-adverse less glassy players. But having a whole party with high constitution just sounds like a recipe to long drawn out fights (with people dying).

I know this is the hardest point to get across.

My glassy Varric or Hawke would be dead off something like one backstab (and therefore he now does 0 DPS) which hurt my party way too much, however, it's the big boss fights that is the huge difference.  I can't drop the Sky Horror, the High Dragon, Corypeus, etc. in 3 minutes.  What exactly is the difference between dealing 200 DPS vs 400 DPS when you have to do an insane amount of damage to the thing?  Their big attacks will kill me before I can kill them.  I could drop the Rock Wraith quickly but not every boss.

I have enough healing with high constitutions (remember healing works based on percents in Dragon Age 2, totally different that Origins) that bosses and their mobs can't kill me fast enough to compete with my healing.  Even if they did, I have access to Revival.  This is my main goal (and where the need for Spirit Healer comes in).

Do you understand this point?  If the ratio of my healing versus how much damage the enemy can do is greater than 1, then the battle has been won.

The major point you seem to be missing is that a higher damage (which works to increases both damage per strike and spells and talents) means that the majority of enemies can be killed before they can deal any damage.

If you look at any of the vids out there, (unless you're looking at solo/muck around setups) you'll hardly ever see anyone using health potions. There is usually a back up heal from Anders, but even that isn't really used much.

Unlike a lower dps party, one pull of the abyss + grav ring + firestorm will wipe out most the enemies and their
attacks on dual haste will kill thing in a second or less.
A lower dps party would be forced to rely on other tactics to finish fights, basically dragging on the fight and giving the enemies more opportunities to inflict damage on your party, and thus giving rise to the need for healing.

I understand what you're saying, but the difference is that I can't kill off the big boys fast enough before their monster attacks destroy me.  If I lost a party member to one of the enemy's big abilities then my party really starts to suck.

Well, I suppose it's up to you - but a CCC won't be available all the time and won't be as damaging as it could be.

aand.. He probably deals crap all damage?

Yeah, Fenris does the least amount of auto-attack damage.  My party tries to make up for that with cross class combos.  I use multiple Chain Lightnings and Crushing Prison on staggers.  His main job is to stagger, taunt enemies away from everyone else, and get them into groups.

My main party is Fenris, Merril, and Varric simply because they have the most rune slots available for Runes of Fortune (I know Merrill is a tie but she's my love interest, so she goes).  I don't need Elemental protection runes because my characters don't really die.  This is ideal for new encounters, too.

The biggest cross class stuff I use is Sunder/Cleave+Chain Lightning, Cone of Cold+Bursting Arrow, and Fatiguing Fog+Stonefist and upgraded Spirit Bolt.  Also, when in groups (which is basically always) I use multiple Tempest Spells, Wounds of the Past, and a carefully placed Firestorm all at once.  After all that stuff is going I use Haste.  Stuff dies quickly enough though not as fast of other people's builds. 

I know that the cross class combo stuff isn't available all the time and yes, that my party isn't as damaging as it could be overall, but I only need to get to the point where my healing versus how much damage the enemy can do is greater than 1.  What I just described will get me to the point without much difficulty.  Getting there either requires me to drop all the trash mobs, all the archers, all the assassins, or whatever.  I identify the greatest threat(s) and eliminate it (just like everyone else).

And this is the big point!
The key to why a healer build is unnecessary!
All you need to do is kill off elite characters yes?

Anything else can't really harm your party - so all that is really required is a bit of crowd control and focus fire/CCCs/spike damage.
Having a higher dps setup means that you can kill off the elites before they can even do any damage - so you don't ever have to worry about anything.
In your lower dps setup enemy elites will be like juggernauts and will be able wreck havoc for longer (and thus causing you to need to 'heal' if not use potions.

I still deal with elites just fine.  It's the really big enemies that I can't kill quickly enough no matter how high the game lets me put my DPS.  Stuff like the Sky Horror or Malvernis will never die in 3 minutes and certainly not before their bomb attacks just rape my entire party.

Belt of Promise is a good belt for durability.
Pumping willpower/items giving willpower are not. As they also do not give any damage bonuses they are the definition of useless. Just use death syphon or something if you're not using blood magic.

I don't need damage bonuses if the ratio of my healing versus how much damage the enemy can do will be greater than 1.  It's an eventuality factor that I strive for.

I do not pump Willpower on any of my characters.  The one exception is like 1 or 2 points on Fenris only (that's a build specific thing where I need 120 Stamina to make 25% of my stamina be 30 stamina - for Bolster in my tactics).  With the way my encounters play out, mana is more useful than extra DPS on my Hawke.  My party is more about tactics than auto-attacking.

I wouldn't mind having Death Syphon or Blood Magic but I just can't fit it in.  They are both really good spells but I need other stuff a lot more.

The fallen star is over-priced, but in terms of durability it is alright. If you're looking for more damage resistance you could try a cross-class helm of a thousand battles. I'm sure diverting a few points from willpower to strength won't hurt your character's dps too much. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

The Champion Armour sorta sucks. But hey, you're not going for damage. Because otherwise the dlc item pack gear is the best.

I agree that if you are going for damage, then you do not want the Champion Armor set.  The Robes of Unblemished Cleanliness would be best then for damage.  That's the same reasoning for why I use The Final Thought staff over say Freedom's Promise.

I put absolutely nothing into Willpower and the Helm of a Thousand Battles requires 32 strength.  My current Hawke has 11 strength so that wouldn't help me.

Uhh,.. just to finish, I don't think your play-style is necessarily 'terrible', and the spirit healer mentality has been floating around these forums (mostly pre-patch).
But the general consensus (and for good reason) is that having a higher damage output will allow your party to receive less damage and thus survive just as well without as much healing/constitution.
Especially post-patch where fights are so much easier, all you need to do to survive (and not even drink any potions) is to deal enough damage to the right enemies.

This means that any setup with hawke (and from the sounds of it, everyone else) dealing low damage is unnecessary and that the job of a spirit healer should be largely unnecessary.

Are there any videos of people beating the really hard stuff like the Sky Horror or Malvernis without potions, grenades, and/or elemental protection runes? Curiously, I can't even find a video of Arelex fighting those.  If you need the potions and runes to beat them and I don't, I'd consider that to be more powerful.

You basically conclude Spirit Healer is unnecessary, which it is if you play more like Arelex.  The way you're playing does make it that way, which I guess that's what you're concluding, only here I'm showing now how it is useful - very useful if you're playing differently. 

Anyway, what's cool about what I'm doing is that my party is set-up so well that I don't even need the help of potions, grenades, and elemental protection runes.  I use the Spirit Healer specialization to the max where as it's useless to you.

I do think people underestimate how much damage that your characters actually can throw out there, but even still, why does it matter what your DPS is when you can't drop the big characters fast enough before they kill you anyway?  There are some insane abilities you have to be able to survive and you can't drop bosses fast enough to dodge those.  Granted, 99% of the game it doesn't come up, but when it does it's really noticeable.

If you want to actually try what I'm doing rather than just plain dis it then I'll give you my complete party build with attributes, talents, and tactics.  We all know you won't do that so let's skip to the next paragraph.

The above will never win any of your speed run competitions but it allowed me to beat the game with ease.  I've tried it playing with Arelex style builds and it just doesn't have the survivability that I like.  Plus I really hate using poitions.  I'm sure he's better at playing that way (which helps) but I literally had no chance against stuff like the Sky Horror unless I already knew what I was facing and added the appropriate protection rune (even then it's STILL hard).

Planning your characters against what you already know is pretty lame to me.  I guess you could keep a Spirit Rune always in your armor to stop Arcane Horrors but what about the next DLC?  You don't know WTF is in there.  If there's some creature that 1-shots any member of your party with fire damage, then what?  Go back to the estate and put in the appropriate protection rune after you died in the first attempt?  That's really lame and to my party builds, unnecessary.  The example I described above is similar to what happened to me playing against the Sky Horror the first time using more glassy builds.  I had fire protection runes from Legacy and got bombed by the Sky Horror.

So let's review:
-playing for damage (needing foreknowledge, elemental protection runes, grenades, and/or using health potions) then use glassy Arelex builds
-playing for survivability (and thus having the nice bonus of needing no or significantly less foreknowledge, zero health potions, zero grenades, and zero elementral protection runes) then use something that will actually survive

Direct me towards the videos that dust something like the Sky Horror and Malevernis so fast that you need absolutely no elemental protection runes, grenades, and/or using health potions.  I'd be very impressed.  Since that doesn't happen, and I hated relying on things that my enemies don't get, I decided to build and play an entirely different way.

If you're going to give me the "well, if protection runes and potions are in the game then why not use them?"  arguement then save it.  If you want to play that way that's fine.  The general consensus isn't always right anyway.  What I do is very reliable and easily able to handle surprises; certainly a lot better than glassy builds even WITH their health potions.  Hopefully you now see what I mean, you seem more reasonable than Relix28 but hopefully even Relix28 will now get it too.  He does have a nice "holier than thou" act though.

I've played both ways, and this way works a hell of a lot better.  I wish I could make some videos, but I play on PS3 with a horrible tv and no digital camera.  I'm a grad student and thus am quite poor so I'm not getting a camera (I wouldn't even use it except to make this video haha).  I'm getting a new tv soon but won't have a camera.  If you want to send me one, I'll make some videos! 

Happy slaying!

Modifié par GoodFella146, 24 novembre 2011 - 01:15 .

[I Tsunayoshi I]

No offense Goodfella, but I think your build sucks really, since you are saying not to get upgrades in spells that damn well should be upgraded to start with.

Nothing good comes from being a jack of all trades. I'd rather have my specialized character be able to do what it is supposed to then try to do everything my party can all at once.

[GoodFella146]

Sora Kitano wrote...

No offense Goodfella, but I think your build sucks really, since you are saying not to get upgrades in spells that damn well should be upgraded to start with.

Nothing good comes from being a jack of all trades. I'd rather have my specialized character be able to do what it is supposed to then try to do everything my party can all at once.

Like what spells?

I have upgraded Winter's Grasp, Cone of Cold, Firestorm, Chain Lightning, Tempest, Heal, Haste, Gravitic Ring, half of Healing Aura (I only add the Faith upgrade), and Group Heal.  I also have Elemental Mastery as well.

The only things not upgraded are Fireball, Dispel Magic, Heroic Aura, Fist of the Maker, Telekinetic Burst, Pull of the Abyss, and Revival.

Modifié par GoodFella146, 24 novembre 2011 - 01:39 .

[frustratemyself]

Still sounds like a slow and painful way to do it Goodfella. Crowd control is more helpful to me than ridiculous amounts of con and dealing bugger all damage.

Also if your game is up to date with patches Sunder would be broken so I don't imagine you'd be getting a lot of staggers out of Fenris and no way to set them up reliably on elite targets.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

The build I use for my mages is to invest heavily into Elemental and Primal Trees, including ALL upgrades sans Petrify and their mastery passives for getting back mana as fast as I can use it.

Invest in Force Mage primarily for Telekinetic Burst, Fist of the Maker, and the +50 Fort Passive.

From there its mainly just spending just because with the lack of use of any other spells due to the offensive playstyle I have as I value mobs being dead over trying to control them for someone else.

Oddly enough, I did not want build advice in the first place and was just interested in endgame level accessories to look for.

Right now my plans are to get Urzara's Tooth, Ring of No Wishes, Ring of the Ferryman, and Belt of Woven Elf Hair for the time being in that regard since they seem to give the best bonuses for the gear from Act 3.

Modifié par Sora Kitano, 24 novembre 2011 - 02:29 .

[GoodFella146]

frustratemyself wrote...

Still sounds like a slow and painful way to do it Goodfella. Crowd control is more helpful to me than ridiculous amounts of con and dealing bugger all damage.

Also if your game is up to date with patches Sunder would be broken so I don't imagine you'd be getting a lot of staggers out of Fenris and no way to set them up reliably on elite targets.

From what I understand, Sunder works with the exception of the +10% critical chance.  It's not painful, normal encounters don't last 5 hours if that's what you're afraid of.

[GoodFella146]

Sora Kitano wrote...

The build I use for my mages is to
invest heavily into Elemental and Primal Trees, including ALL upgrades
sans Petrify and their mastery passives for getting back mana as fast as
I can use it.

Invest in Force Mage primarily for Telekinetic Burst, Fist of the Maker, and the +50 Fort Passive.

From
there its mainly just spending just because with the lack of use of any
other spells due to the offensive playstyle I have as I value mobs
being dead over trying to control them for someone else.

Oddly enough, I did not want build advice in the first place and was just interested in endgame level accessories to look for.

Right
now my plans are to get Urzara's Tooth, Ring of No Wishes, Ring of the
Ferryman, and Belt of Woven Elf Hair for the time being in that regard
since they seem to give the best bonuses for the gear from Act 3.

I hope you're not talking about the +10 stamina regeneration that each mastery gives you because that value is actually really small.  If you play with a warrior try an upgraded Rally.  I'm a little surprised you took Unshakeable because I thought everyone stopped using that after they patched the auto-attack stun lock thing.  If you are playing more offensive then did you change your mind about Spirit Healer?  If so, sorry if I hijacked your thread about accessories.

Modifié par GoodFella146, 24 novembre 2011 - 02:52 .

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Still only using the Spirit Healer spec for its +25 mana. Havent put a point in there and not using Blood Magic for RP reasons

Also the mastery passives have the perk of increasing dmg for their respective elements by 25% or making the spells in their line better all around. Also between the two I have, +20 mana regen is just a side benefit that comes from all the dmg bonuses.

[mr_afk]

look, i'm not trying to dictate how other people play. if you wish to place self-imposed restrictions on potions/runes then we're not stopping you - all we are saying is that the more 'optimised' method of play is to just load up on the damage.
Arelex does not have a glassy style of play. If you look at the setups for his companions, most of them have a fair amount of con into the mix; In terms of speed runs he probably switches setups, but generally speaking they seem to be aimed more at ease of play (for the general player).
His setups are probably close the optimum level of survivability and dps for most people. More glassy setups require absolutely no damage to get through to your party - for ranged members like Varric this isn't such an issue, but protecting the whole party can take quite a bit of practice.

it's doubtful you'll find vids (of mine or anyone else) without potions/runes because they are a fundamental part of the gameplay and strategy. under the assumption that we're min-maxing for a certain fight, fore-knowledge of which elemental resistance to use doesn't seem too big a deal.

here's the only vids i bothered to record of sky horror and malvernis;
- Tallis used one potion.



So as you sorta can tell from the sky horror vid, you never need to heal up your party due to the aoe of death if you just prevent it from ever using it - namely by dealing lots of damage to it.
This same principle applies to assassins etc, so for most fights where damage is avoidable (certain fights are just a pain), you don't actually receive anywhere near as much damage as you would in a lower dps setup.
I can honestly tell you that for all mob fights and most the 'tougher' fights potions are never relied on (not that it's much of an issue). This is partially due to the fights been over so fast - how can you rely on potions when the cooldown for it ensures you can only potentially use one?



Anyway, the best example to look at is the ARW.
A non-glassy dps setup will take several minutes (i'm guessing half an hour or more) and would require micromanaging healing and kiting the whole time.
A dps setup will take several seconds (around 20-40) and your party receives hardly any damage.
If you enjoy the micromanging/healing/fights dragging on then maybe the first option is for you- but most people (myself included) prefer the faster end of things.
DA2's mechanics favours it in most cases so although other methods are possible, they aren't necessarily ideal.


Anyway, i've got a slight head-ache and I need to get back to skyrim, so have fun doing whatever.

[GoodFella146]

mr_afk wrote...

look, i'm not trying to dictate how other people play. if you wish to place self-imposed restrictions on potions/runes then we're not stopping you - all we are saying is that the more 'optimised' method of play is to just load up on the damage.
Arelex does not have a glassy style of play. If you look at the setups for his companions, most of them have a fair amount of con into the mix; In terms of speed runs he probably switches setups, but generally speaking they seem to be aimed more at ease of play (for the general player).
His setups are probably close the optimum level of survivability and dps for most people. More glassy setups require absolutely no damage to get through to your party - for ranged members like Varric this isn't such an issue, but protecting the whole party can take quite a bit of practice.

it's doubtful you'll find vids (of mine or anyone else) without potions/runes because they are a fundamental part of the gameplay and strategy. under the assumption that we're min-maxing for a certain fight, fore-knowledge of which elemental resistance to use doesn't seem too big a deal.

here's the only vids i bothered to record of sky horror and malvernis;
- Tallis used one potion.



So as you sorta can tell from the sky horror vid, you never need to heal up your party due to the aoe of death if you just prevent it from ever using it - namely by dealing lots of damage to it.
This same principle applies to assassins etc, so for most fights where damage is avoidable (certain fights are just a pain), you don't actually receive anywhere near as much damage as you would in a lower dps setup.
I can honestly tell you that for all mob fights and most the 'tougher' fights potions are never relied on (not that it's much of an issue). This is partially due to the fights been over so fast - how can you rely on potions when the cooldown for it ensures you can only potentially use one?



Anyway, the best example to look at is the ARW.
A non-glassy dps setup will take several minutes (i'm guessing half an hour or more) and would require micromanaging healing and kiting the whole time.
A dps setup will take several seconds (around 20-40) and your party receives hardly any damage.
If you enjoy the micromanging/healing/fights dragging on then maybe the first option is for you- but most people (myself included) prefer the faster end of things.
DA2's mechanics favours it in most cases so although other methods are possible, they aren't necessarily ideal.


Anyway, i've got a slight head-ache and I need to get back to skyrim, so have fun doing whatever.

Nice videos!  A mage Hawke can't do anywhere near that kind of damage though so I feel more like now we're talking about apples and oranges. Anyway, the Spirit Healer class is still pretty good I think and you don't have to always have a double Haste party; you can take whoever you want, even the less ideal characters.  I certainly found the survivability to be a lot higher than any other mage.