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[111987]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

They are labeled a terrorist organization by the Citadel and Alliance. This doesn't make them terrorists. Terrorists commit acts of violence and sabotage to instill fear, with the hope of altering the behavior of the society they are terrorizing. Real-life terrorists blow up abortion clinics in the hope that people will be too afraid to go to them. Cerberus doesn't do anything remotely like this.

They do that in ME3. A lot.

Can you please stop with the spoilers? Seriously, in almost every thread about ME3 you give little hints about the leaked script. While you don't ouright say anything, your hints are just as bad and annoying.

Please, for the people who don't want to be spoiled, stop posting hints. Thank you.

[Someone With Mass]

111987 wrote...
Can you please stop with the spoilers? Seriously, in almost every thread about ME3 you give little hints about the leaked script. While you don't ouright say anything, your hints are just as bad and annoying.

Please, for the people who don't want to be spoiled, stop posting hints. Thank you.

Will do.

[DiebytheSword]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

They are labeled a terrorist organization by the Citadel and Alliance. This doesn't make them terrorists. Terrorists commit acts of violence and sabotage to instill fear, with the hope of altering the behavior of the society they are terrorizing. Real-life terrorists blow up abortion clinics in the hope that people will be too afraid to go to them. Cerberus doesn't do anything remotely like this.

They do that in ME3. A lot.

While I agree that Cerberus has absolutely no regard for the loss of life in persuit of a goal, that still doesn't make them terrorists.  I see them as akin to Spectre from James Bond's universe, only they don't seek a goal concerning personal power and wealth.  Instead, they seek to put humanity on the top at all costs, making them akin to genocidal despots rather than terrorists.

At the end of the day, they are still Mass Murderers by ME3, and they were just unethical in their persuits to the point of criminal activity in ME1 & 2.

[Ausstig]

But there is poor writing, particularly in regards to Cerberus. It's called Character Derailment,

http://tvtropes.org/...acterDerailment

It's not just Cerberus, almost every other human character, who isn't Anderson or a Mary Sue, gets derailed or shoved into a whole.

[CerberusWarrior]

I will always support Cerberus at least they actually did something about the collectors in ME 2 where was the so called heor Anderson at in 2 oh thats right he was spying Shepard

[CerberusWarrior]

Its bad writing period but its clear many on here do not even want to understand that Bioware hasd made a huge mistake with this messed up story

[Ausstig]

In retrospect have the player work with Cerberus in ME2 was a mistake, did ME1 have a different writer then ME2 or ME3?

Modifié par Ausstig, 23 novembre 2011 - 11:09 .

[Nethershadow]

Arcian wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

They do that in ME3. A lot.

Yes, ME3 is a terribly written piece of garbage. This is old news.

"They're not writing them like I want - therefore, the writing is bad."

classic Saphra.

Ya but i have yet to hear anyone say that they liked the script for ME3. If someone likes it pls speak up because i~m not seeing it.

I like Cerberus and i hope it does´t get thrown to the dogs in 3.

And sidenote, there´s no need to antagonize a poster as this is a forum where pretty much everything you say is your opinion.

[Nethershadow]

Ausstig wrote...

In retrospect have the player work with Cerberus in ME2 was a mistake, did ME1 have a different writer then ME2 or ME3?

Just adding to your questions and thoughts,

Cerberus in 1 comes across alot different than they do in 2, so ya i would have to wonder if the writers changed or what? Don´t get me wrong, i actually like Cerberus alot in 2, but for a game that was designed as a trilogy the story sure doesn´t appear to have been written at the same time, and i mean if you were going to tell a story over 3 games wouldn´t you at the very least have written the entire story before starting? If not then they have shown the writters are very fallible because they are taking it step by step to see what the bosses like and what they think the fans will like meanwhile scuttling the story in process. I believe that is why the story is the way it is now.

As for the ME3 leak, some things are true while others aren´t is what i thought was said, and they didn´t mention which parts are true. So i wonder how they can be spoilers when nothing is specifically confirmed as true from the early fragment script?

[Bleachrude]

Er, not sure it si character derailment...

I mean, Cerebus WAS the one that caused the various "accidents" that created biotics in humans and wasnt it stated that for every 1 kaidan you got something like 10 miscarriages/problem pregnancies?

EDIT: In ME1, was there ANY good points about Cerebus? I don't actually remember reading/playing any good interaction with Cerebus in that game...

In ME2 and the FCW novels, yeah, you get a more nuanced Cerebus but going back to the standard Cerebus of Me1 in the finale doesn't strike me as derailment...

Modifié par Bleachrude, 23 novembre 2011 - 11:25 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Arcian wrote...

That's your opinion.

It's rather hard to dispute that the portrayal of Cerberus has jumped all over the map.

In ME1, Cerberus was a rogue ex-Alliance black ops group with a penchant for research in making super soldiers to fight so Humans wouldn't. They didn't have much mention, and even less explanation in what they did, what they were trying to do, or why. But what we did have was a significant military focus: they had a General and a rank structure, they focused on mass-produced soldier proxies, are their origin was distinctly military. As far as finances and intelligence went, they flew under the radar, in part because they were small. While implications of brutality and murder were present, sadism as a point in and of itself was not: Kohaku was killed by lethal injection, not torture experiments, and Toombs torture was a byproduct, not the point, of the Thresher Maw experiments. Unethical? Yes. Sadistic? No. Their projects, what we knew of them, tended to be based around 'what will we do if the Second Contact War begins?' Cerberus was never related to the Reapers, and their antagonism was only incidental because Shepard could attack them.


In ME2, Cerberus turned into the flashy private coproration with logos, uniforms, but throwing out the military structure. The uniforms got flashier (dat ass), the projects got trashier (two of the three projects we see have over-the-top torture of children/autistics for... no discernable reason), and the military aspect was barely a footnote for the armor/weapon DLC. Now Cerberus is richer than sin, everyone knows eachother by the big emblem, everyone answers to the Illusive Man. Cerberus is still small, however, with authority voice EDI putting at a 150 operatives. In light of the Reapers, Cerberus is throwing resources at Shepard in order to fight them, the only group doing so, and continues to be opposed to the Reapers in the immediately surrounding books, making pragmatic outreach to people who hate it in order to fight the Reapers (Shepard, Anderson, Aria, even Hackett to some extent in Arrival). Cerberus is a group that can recruit both bigots and idealists.

ME3... out with the informal, back in with the 'everyone's military', and now Cerberus is a force of galactic proportions, working for the Reapers. The rest gets into heavy spoiler territory... but it doesn't make it any more consistent with the earlier games and portrayals.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 23 novembre 2011 - 11:45 .

[Dave of Canada]

Bleachrude wrote...

EDIT: In ME1, was there ANY good points about Cerebus? I don't actually remember reading/playing any good interaction with Cerebus in that game...

In ME1, you hear about them... four times? All you hear about them is they're a black ops group and have a super soldier project going on. You don't know anything about them, their goals or the people working for them. How does that paint a picture for you to judge?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 23 novembre 2011 - 11:47 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Dean_the_Young wrote...


In ME2, Cerberus turned into the flashy private coproration with logos, uniforms, but throwing out the military structure. The uniforms got flashier (dat ass), the projects got trashier (two of the three projects we see have over-the-top torture of children/autistics for... no discernable reason), and the military aspect was barely a footnote for the armor/weapon DLC. Now Cerberus is richer than sin, everyone knows eachother by the big emblem, everyone answers to the Illusive Man. Cerberus is still small, however, with authority voice EDI putting at a 150 operatives. In light of the Reapers, Cerberus is throwing resources at Shepard in order to fight them, the only group doing so, and continues to be opposed to the Reapers in the immediately surrounding books, making pragmatic outreach to people who hate it in order to fight the Reapers (Shepard, Anderson, Aria, even Hackett to some extent in Arrival). Cerberus is a group that can recruit both bigots and idealists.

Ah... this number again. I don't mean to nitpick a minor part of your argument, but tell me, would you consider Kelly and Rupert to be "Cerberus Operatives", like Miranda and Jacob are? Would Shepard count as one of these 150? (for the duration of ME2, at least)

[Dean_the_Young]

We never got a 'this is the good thing Cerberus has done today' spiel, but their project goals that we did know of (the Rachni domestication attempt, Supersoldier attempts) were pretty understandable 'next big war' contingencies, which would have had obvious implications against the Reapers as well as the more mundane enemies they were being prepared against.

[Dave of Canada]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Ah... this number again. I don't mean to nitpick a minor part of your argument, but tell me, would you consider Kelly and Rupert to be "Cerberus Operatives", like Miranda and Jacob are? Would Shepard count as one of these 150? (for the duration of ME2, at least)

Considering Jacob was simply security, yes.

And Shepard? Definitely.

[Sgt Stryker]

I can buy that the CO, XO, pilot and head of each division (Security, Medical, Engineering, etc.) on the Normandy would count as one of these Operatives. That would place under a dozen operatives assigned to the Normandy; a believable figure, considering Shepard's mission was TIM's top priority at the time. However, I still do not believe that every single crewman would qualify as an operative. The numbers simply don't add up, otherwise. The presence of a nifty gold logo on your uniform does not necessarily mean you're one of the 150.

[Sgt Stryker]

Of course not! They're not human, are they?