535 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

Not really, you should just take a look at how realpolitik works IRL, it's not worst at all, just bigger.

Er, if by 'bigger' you mean worse. Otherwise, no.

There is no contemporary comparison to the Council-space exclusion racket.

I was just refering to linked government having different laws, like prostitution legal in France, illegal in Monaco. Such example exists with drugs and torture (like the famous Guantanamo Bay which depend on USA since 1902 but after the Justice Department advised that the Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp could be considered outside U.S. legal jurisdiction became a place were torture isn't illegal).

Can you present anything on the level of legalizing slavery? Or is this a case of 'something way smaller happens in real life, so it's no biggie.'

That's just baseless assumption unless Cerberus actually continue to stick its nose outside of its system which would effectively be a motive for war.

No, that's pretty much standard operating procedure for the Council. Jurisdiction isn't a barier when they don't want it to be: see Retribution.

The Council fears the Terminus in mass, but has plenty of exposure and agents within... even if often under plausible deniability.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 24 novembre 2011 - 09:26 .

[Goneaviking]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

Edit Edit: And by equality I mean that regardless of sex, sexual identity, sexual oreintation, race etc. that each group has the potential (and ability) to be intellectually competant and therefore deserves equal rights / representation within politics, media, and society. 

Why exaclty? Since when does capability has anything to do with that? Why should a minority have an equal presentation in politics and media?
By it's very nature politicians and media will pander and focus on the largest groups (to get money and votes). I don't see how one cna change that without laws that will do more harm than good in the end.

By their nature the politicians pander to the wealthiest and most politically useful sections of the community because it generates larger campaign donations which can used to fund their media campaigns which they use to entice the larger and less engaged sections of the community to see them as having values more in line with the baseline of the community than they do.

In practice, the media tends to focus on whatever their employers are willing to pay them to cover. There is an instinct to favour individuals and groups that offer privileged information over those that either cannot or will not recipricate; which creates a reality where the views of a privileged class gets more, and more sympathetic, representation than than the larger bulk of society.

As for why minority groups should have equal presentation, have you ever heard of the "tyranny of the majority"?

[Nethershadow]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
Which actions stand out to you and how do you define "evil" anyway?

"Evil" is not that difficult to define: hurting people which aren't hurting you (or at least trying).
Do not do to other what you would not like to be done on you and your loved ones.

I kind of wonder then what organization in ME that you support then?
Because the alliance has done just as many if not more ~evil~ deeds solely based on its vast size than Cerberus has ever done.

And looking at human history, i would harbour a guess that human societies have been about a 50/50 split between good/evil. I actually view it more like a 40/60. My point being that human nature encompasses both sides of the coin and is not limitted to just one. I find just about all organizations a mix.

[111987]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...

@lotion
Don't change my argument. I said in the case of hitler, assassination would be a necessary evil. Just like killing balak for example. And they murdered a lot of people because their views didn't align with Cerberus. They killed the head of terra firma because the successor would be easier to manipulate. That is evil/immoral.

To you.

"Necessary evil" is defiend by what you consider necessary, what you consider "greater good" and what you consider evil.

Name one thing Cerberus does that other organizations (Council, Specters, other races) don't. The only difference is your approval (or lack thereoff)

Just because other organizations commit evil actions doesn't excuse Cerberus. 

[CerberusWarrior]

111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...

@lotion
Don't change my argument. I said in the case of hitler, assassination would be a necessary evil. Just like killing balak for example. And they murdered a lot of people because their views didn't align with Cerberus. They killed the head of terra firma because the successor would be easier to manipulate. That is evil/immoral.

To you.

"Necessary evil" is defiend by what you consider necessary, what you consider "greater good" and what you consider evil.

Name one thing Cerberus does that other organizations (Council, Specters, other races) don't. The only difference is your approval (or lack thereoff)

Just because other organizations commit evil actions doesn't excuse Cerberus. 

   



Oh no all Bioware did was erase Cerberus's work in ME 2 for ME 3 to please and keep happy all its paragon and alliance fans who whined and moaned during 2 about how they hated working with Cerberus . So its no wonder here on BSN no one dare challenges the other races or the so called almighty alliance on what they do wrong . I and many others know its a one sided majority here on BSN they basically forced us all to work with the alliance in 3 . 

Modifié par CerberusWarrior, 25 novembre 2011 - 12:58 .

[Xilizhra]

Name one thing Cerberus does that other organizations (Council, Specters, other races) don't. The only difference is your approval (or lack thereoff)

Teltin, TRAPDOOR.

Oh no all Bioware did was erase Cerberus's work in ME 2 to please and keep happy all its paragon and alliance fans who whined and moaned during 2 about how they hated working with Cerberus . So its no wonder here on BSN no one dare challenges the other races or the so called almighty alliance on what they do wrong . I and many others know its a one sided majority here on BSN they basically forced us all to work with the alliance in 3 .

Yes, well, Bioware likes money more than they like you. Quite frankly, I can't blame them.

[CerberusWarrior]

Xilizhra wrote...

Name one thing Cerberus does that other organizations (Council, Specters, other races) don't. The only difference is your approval (or lack thereoff)

Teltin, TRAPDOOR.

Oh no all Bioware did was erase Cerberus's work in ME 2 to please and keep happy all its paragon and alliance fans who whined and moaned during 2 about how they hated working with Cerberus . So its no wonder here on BSN no one dare challenges the other races or the so called almighty alliance on what they do wrong . I and many others know its a one sided majority here on BSN they basically forced us all to work with the alliance in 3 .

Yes, well, Bioware likes money more than they like you. Quite frankly, I can't blame them.

    



yeah Bioware likes more money but all companies like money so that does not matter. I guess my comments hit home if you can not come up with any better response 

[Xilizhra]

yeah Bioware likes more money but all companies like money so that does not matter. I guess my comments hit home if you can not come up with any better response

You're clearly no Saphra.

However. First of all, your entire side is challenging the people you feel are wrong, thus disproving your second point. Second, we had nothing to do with forcing you to work with the side who likely raised you, who definitely trained you and who helped propel you into the position of Spectre in the first place: that was Bioware's choice.

[Sgt Stryker]

CerberusWarrior wrote...
Oh no all Bioware did was erase Cerberus's work in ME 2 for ME 3 to please and keep happy all its paragon and alliance fans who whined and moaned during 2 about how they hated working with Cerberus . So its no wonder here on BSN no one dare challenges the other races or the so called almighty alliance on what they do wrong . I and many others know its a one sided majority here on BSN they basically forced us all to work with the alliance in 3 .  

Yep, just like we were forced to become a Spectre in 1, and how we were forced to work with Cerberus in 2.

[Arkitekt]

Next minute these concern trolls will be telling us how bioware was forcing them to play mass effect at all.

Modifié par Arkitekt, 25 novembre 2011 - 02:00 .

[CerberusWarrior]

Oh how I love those that do not like anyone who does not agree with the majority . thats what the renegade option in 3 is there for so I can be a total **** to the alliance . oh and about being called troll thats cute coming form a majority thats so one side even Fox news would be happy about it

[someone else]

Question - speaking of unspeakable acts, do we have any clue as to the what was in Kieji's grey box - apparently something that might tarnish the Alliance's sterling reputation? ...just curious how far beyond reproach our paragons really are.

If anyone knows, someone on this thread will...

"Jack, there's something on everybody.  Man is concieved in sin, and born into corruption. He passes from the stink of the dydie to the stench of the shroud.  There is always something..."  Willie Stark, All the Kings Men, Robt Penn Warren

Modifié par someone else, 25 novembre 2011 - 03:46 .

[111987]

CerberusWarrior wrote...

111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

111987 wrote...

@lotion
Don't change my argument. I said in the case of hitler, assassination would be a necessary evil. Just like killing balak for example. And they murdered a lot of people because their views didn't align with Cerberus. They killed the head of terra firma because the successor would be easier to manipulate. That is evil/immoral.

To you.

"Necessary evil" is defiend by what you consider necessary, what you consider "greater good" and what you consider evil.

Name one thing Cerberus does that other organizations (Council, Specters, other races) don't. The only difference is your approval (or lack thereoff)

Just because other organizations commit evil actions doesn't excuse Cerberus. 

   



Oh no all Bioware did was erase Cerberus's work in ME 2 for ME 3 to please and keep happy all its paragon and alliance fans who whined and moaned during 2 about how they hated working with Cerberus . So its no wonder here on BSN no one dare challenges the other races or the so called almighty alliance on what they do wrong . I and many others know its a one sided majority here on BSN they basically forced us all to work with the alliance in 3 . 

What does anything you just said have to do with my post?

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

I support Cerberus in part...only to the extent of what I have been presented with in the non-DLC versions of ME

[capn233]

Yeah I am a fair weather Cerberus supporter too.

I'm the slightly kinder and gentler Space Jack Bauer...

[ubermensch007]

111987 wrote... TIM, sees the aliens as allies against the Reapers,
but what about beyond that? He definetly isn't advocating peaceful
co-existence with them; he wishes humans to be dominate.I've always
seen TIM, as seeking to use the other races as simply tools against
the Reapers."

@111987: I so know what you mean... The Illusive Man - Mission Summary
Report that makes me the most indignant; is the one that comes after finishing Tali Zorah vas Normandy's Loyalty Mission.

What he says there about how the Migrant Fleet needs to go all out against the Reaper Fleet.Really just made me say,"You son of a ****! If its a bad idea for the quarians to go to war against the geth.Then how in the sam hill, is it a good idea for them to take on the effin Reapers in space combat!?"

The quarians can not afford to take the kind of looses other spacefaring races can.They are about as close to extinction as the Racchin Queen and her offspring are.What with there onky being 17
million or so quarian men women and children alive in the known galaxy.

For TIM, to say something like that, just struck me as pretty damn racist.Contrary to what Gunnery Chief Ashley Williams seems to think
from her sacrificing your dog to save yourself metaphor in ME 1.Where she says, "It's not racism... not really."

It is racism! I define racism as  hostile action towards another person, of another race, without any merit. They don't owe you money.They didn't cheat on your sister.It's hate without reason.It can
manifest as a verbal or physical attack, or by exclusion.And not treating thier life as having the same level of intrinsic value as one of your own kind.

My Canon Shepard, is a "Life Everywhere" Hero: who would prefer for the quarians to stay out of direct conflict with the Reapers, if at all possible.But they can still contribute to the war effort.By providing technical support and Research and Development into ways to improve warship performance.

[Skirata129]

Ieldra2 wrote...

---
That's it for now. There are two more points I could be making: The "Evil is Cool" effect and the undoubted charisma of the Illusive Man and his status as a "Magnificent Bastard". I don't have a lot to say about that. Others may.

excellent points and I agree. also, are you a fellow troper? I've been curious who's been putting the ME references on that site.

[The Spamming Troll]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...
Oh no all Bioware did was erase Cerberus's work in ME 2 for ME 3 to please and keep happy all its paragon and alliance fans who whined and moaned during 2 about how they hated working with Cerberus . So its no wonder here on BSN no one dare challenges the other races or the so called almighty alliance on what they do wrong . I and many others know its a one sided majority here on BSN they basically forced us all to work with the alliance in 3 .  

Yep, just like we were forced to become a Spectre in 1, and how we were forced to work with Cerberus in 2.

yeah, i hope bioware forces more romance scenes with liara!

[Someone With Mass]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...
Oh no all Bioware did was erase Cerberus's work in ME 2 for ME 3 to please and keep happy all its paragon and alliance fans who whined and moaned during 2 about how they hated working with Cerberus . So its no wonder here on BSN no one dare challenges the other races or the so called almighty alliance on what they do wrong . I and many others know its a one sided majority here on BSN they basically forced us all to work with the alliance in 3 .  

Yep, just like we were forced to become a Spectre in 1, and how we were forced to work with Cerberus in 2.

Just like Shepard was forced to join the Alliance in the first place and spend his whole adult life fighting both for himself and others.

By the way, I'm so glad that Shepard will be able to command that huge fleet Cerberus--oh, wait. Right...that's awkward.

[Skirata129]

Having cerberus as an enemy in 3 really makes no sense, given what we know from 1 and 2.

[CerberusWarrior]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...
Oh no all Bioware did was erase Cerberus's work in ME 2 for ME 3 to please and keep happy all its paragon and alliance fans who whined and moaned during 2 about how they hated working with Cerberus . So its no wonder here on BSN no one dare challenges the other races or the so called almighty alliance on what they do wrong . I and many others know its a one sided majority here on BSN they basically forced us all to work with the alliance in 3 .  

Yep, just like we were forced to become a Spectre in 1, and how we were forced to work with Cerberus in 2.

Just like Shepard was forced to join the Alliance in the first place and spend his whole adult life fighting both for himself and others.

By the way, I'm so glad that Shepard will be able to command that huge fleet Cerberus--oh, wait. Right...that's awkward.

    





so what if your Shepard enjoys being a lap dog slave for a a human group that claims to care about humanity but in the end puts the man or woman that saved humanity  on trail for complete bull **** because a bunch batarians died. yeah the alliance does not give 2 cent about us humans in the ME universe . But oh Bioware had to destroy what could have been a awesome character and group because of a bunch of cry babies who did not like ME 2 at all . Yeah that righjt there slaps the whole player choice concept right in the mouth . Now thanks to a few whining cry babies us renegade players got screwed . . The alliance better stay out of my shepard's way of doing what ever it takes to save humanity and Earth since they clearly do not give a dam about Shepard . 

[Someone With Mass]

CerberusWarrior wrote...

so what if your Shepard enjoys being a lap dog slave for a a human group that claims to care about humanity but in the end puts the man or woman that saved humanity  on trail for complete bull **** because a bunch batarians died. yeah the alliance does not give 2 cent about us humans in the ME universe . But oh Bioware had to destroy what could have been a awesome character and group because of a bunch of cry babies who did not like ME 2 at all . Yeah that righjt there slaps the whole player choice concept right in the mouth . Now thanks to a few whining cry babies us renegade players got screwed . . The alliance better stay out of my shepard's way of doing what ever it takes to save humanity and Earth since they clearly do not give a dam about Shepard . 

Ironic, because Cerberus is doing exactly that. Manipulating other people to do the dirty work for them that benefits nobody but themselves.

Also, the Alliance did a lot more than Cerberus during the initial Reaper invasion. They actually tried to defend Earth while Cerberus was too busy getting train raped by Adjutants on Omega.

By the way, TIM isn't awesome just because he sits in chair and throws money at whatever problem needs solving. Any idiot can do that. He's not deep either. Oh, he lost something in a war. Join the club, Mr. Speschul Man.

Oh, he saw a vision of the Reapers. So did Shepard. And Shepard actually stopped the Reaper invasion not only once, but twice, while TIM was too busy playing hide and seek with some autistic kid, because his pride forbids him to admit defeat and to focus his attention on things that actually matters for once in his worthless life.

I have yet to see Cerberus do anything to help...refugees from the human colonies, for example and actually gain the people's support. Nope. They're too stupid for that, so they're sabotaging Shepard's operations instead.

The people that are actually brave enough to risk their own asses to get things done when it comes to stopping the Reapers instead of hiding like pansies, they are the ones who are respectable.

TIM is nothing but filth, which should be washed away in the gutter.

[DiebytheSword]

ubermensch007 wrote...

111987 wrote... TIM, sees the aliens as allies against the Reapers,
but what about beyond that? He definetly isn't advocating peaceful
co-existence with them; he wishes humans to be dominate.I've always
seen TIM, as seeking to use the other races as simply tools against
the Reapers."

It is racism! I define racism as  hostile action towards another person, of another race, without any merit. They don't owe you money.They didn't cheat on your sister.It's hate without reason.It can
manifest as a verbal or physical attack, or by exclusion.And not treating thier life as having the same level of intrinsic value as one of your own kind.

I heartily disagree.  As a target of racist remarks (being hispanic born to immigrants), that hate has poorly thought out subjective "facts", terrible logic, and even worse baseless fears, but it has a reason.  There is merit in that they are ignorant and fearful, and that is how they feel.

Now, the ways it manifests, you are quite correct on, and the intrinsic value of life is also a decent point. 

However, it is much simpler to say that racism is ignorant, ill-educated, pre determined bias based on the fact that you can not identify with a person of this other race.  I have been a victim, and I have at times allowed it to get the better of me against others.

What TIM says is not racist, it is ruthless.  Very different reasoning behind his conclusions and yours.