535 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Someone With Mass wrote...
They gave the human two Spectres (the Council selecting its own agents? NO WAI)

Please, it was a political move.
Giving us a Spectre appeased humanity and Shepard could be used against Saren so that they don't have to risk their own soldier. And if Shepard failed humanity, the already very influential upstarts, would be humilliated which would be good for the Council.
 

and they pretty genereously gave us a seat on the Council after one battle.

Because the Citadel fleet was devastated while ours was on orbit.
We were gaining a foothold on the Council one way or another. Better to give us a seat than risk the Fifth fleet taking control of the Citadel.

Oh, and when you're warned about something, but you do it anyway, you have only yourself to blame.

Warned? The Council wanted us to colonize the Traverse. It increased their own power. But when we ran into trouble, they refused to help.

Modifié par MisterJB, 30 novembre 2011 - 12:34 .

[DiebytheSword]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Totally different scenario; imagine trying to invade an alien homeword with a fleet of our own, then expect the aliens to adhere to the Geneva Convention when they take some of us prisoner.

Oh no, they were getting ready to wipe us off the face of the galaxy.

Completely agree on both points.  Turians were ready for genocide after the Krogan, and there is no reasonable expectation for interstellar law to be followed in a first contact scenario, nor should the aliens follow earth laws.

First contact has always been messy, taking hundreds of years to iron itself out here on earth whenever it happened.

[111987]

MisterJB wrote...

Because the Citadel fleet was devastated while ours was on orbit.
We were gaining a foothold on the Council one way or another. Better to give us a seat than risk the Fifth fleet taking control of the Citadel.

At least until the Turians 39 dreadnaughts, the Asari's 20, and the Salarian's 15 showed up, right?

[Someone With Mass]

Since when is giving someone a Spectre rank not a political move? It's sort of what they do. They act without consequences.

[Someone With Mass]

111987 wrote...

At least until the Turians 39 dreadnaughts, the Asari's 20, and the Salarian's 15 showed up, right?

Not to mention that they can rebuild their fleets.

[MisterJB]

111987 wrote...
At least until the Turians 39 dreadnaughts, the Asari's 20, and the Salarian's 15 showed up, right?

It's been two years. Where are they?

Our fleet is a sleeping giant. Only 3% of our population join the military. An alien attempt at human genocide would make that number skyrocket.
Also, we are the major force in the Traverse and the Verge, our fleet keeps order there. We are major trading partners with at least half a dozen of races, the Big 3 included.
It's not that simple to destroy Humanity. 

Modifié par MisterJB, 30 novembre 2011 - 12:43 .

[111987]

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

Secure from who? The other Council races?

Yes. Anyone who would challenge us.

As humanity consolidizes its power the other races may not like it, but they won't be in a position to do much about it. They'll fall back on peace and make treaties with us. It is easier to submit than to fight. The only real threat would be the turians and they'll have their own civil war to deal with as well as a wrecked economy.

The other "lesser" races will have no reason to aid any of them because they will have lost nothing but possibly gained a more attentive benefactor in humanity.

That works to an extent. The situation you describe reminds me of (yes i know it is cliche, but still appliacable) **** Germany in the 1930's. At first the other nations were content to simply fall back on peace and sign treaties, but eventually when they got pushed too far, they declared war on Germany.

And if a war breaks out, there would simply be no way humanity would emerge victorious.

[111987]

MisterJB wrote...

111987 wrote...
At least until the Turians 39 dreadnaughts, the Asari's 20, and the Salarian's 15 showed up, right?

It's been two years. Where are they?

Our fleet is a sleeping giant. Only 3% of our population join the military. An alien attempt at human genocide would make that number skyrocket.
Also, we are the major force in the Traverse and the Verge, our fleet keeps order there. We are major trading partners with at least half a dozen of races, the Big 3 included.
It's not that simple to destroy Humanity. 

I wasn't saying that humanity would be easily destroyed. My point was that humanity trying to accomplish anything by force would end very badly for them. They simply aren't powerful enough to challenge the galaxy.

[Someone With Mass]

MisterJB wrote...
It's been two years. Where are they?

Our fleet is a sleeping giant. Only 3% of our population join the military. An alien attempt at human genocide would make that number skyrocket.
Also, we are the major force in the Traverse and the Verge, our fleet keeps order there. We are major trading partner with at least half a dozen of races, the Big 3 included.
It's not that simple to destroy Humanity. 

It is for the Reapers.

*spoiler*The turians are also doing better than the humans on that front. They're actually holding the Reaper fleets back and have forced the Reapers to call for reinforcements, even if it's a losing battle for the turians, while the Reapers smashed through all the defenses leading to Earth and forced the Third and Fifth fleets to evacuate while the entire Second fleet sacrificed itself to cover them before Arcturus station fell, cutting off the access to the only relay that leads to Sol.*spoiler*

So much for that sleeping giant.

[Sgt Stryker]

Nitpick: Except for that one time we had to exterminate the Collectors.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

And if a war breaks out, there would simply be no way humanity would emerge victorious.

Probably true, but nobody else would emerge victorious either. Nobody will commit to such a destructive war, especially one that THEY have to start.

Remember: humanity has not attacked or invaded anybody.

Except the batarians and the Collectors, that is.

[MisterJB]

SMS: Are you honestly comparing a war with the Turians to a war with the Reapers?*not reading the spoilers*
As a reminder, we forced the turians out of Shanxi.

[MisterJB]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

And if a war breaks out, there would simply be no way humanity would emerge victorious.

Probably true, but nobody else would emerge victorious either. Nobody will commit to such a destructive war, especially one that THEY have to start.

Remember: humanity has not attacked or invaded anybody.

Except the batarians and the Collectors, that is.

What the hell is wrong...They attacked us!

[Kaiser Shepard]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

And if a war breaks out, there would simply be no way humanity would emerge victorious.

Probably true, but nobody else would emerge victorious either. Nobody will commit to such a destructive war, especially one that THEY have to start.

Remember: humanity has not attacked or invaded anybody.

Except the batarians and the Collectors, that is.

Irrelevant: We did not attack or invade anyone that didn't do the same to us first.

[111987]

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

And if a war breaks out, there would simply be no way humanity would emerge victorious.

Probably true, but nobody else would emerge victorious either. Nobody will commit to such a destructive war, especially one that THEY have to start.

Remember: humanity has not attacked or invaded anybody.

Yes, that is true. But Cerberus is definitley the type of organization to push humanity down that road. Humanity doesn't have to necesarrily attack the other races to have a war begin. If the consolidation of power begins to affect the other races too adversely, which is definitely a possibility, humanity will be in trouble.

And the Krogan Rebellions and Rachni Wars show that while the Council races will seek peaceful alternatives first, if they are forced to fight to the death, they will.

[111987]

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

Yes, that is true. But Cerberus is definitley the type of organization to push humanity down that road.

Umm... since when? There was a Pope who wanted to push humanity down that road and Cerberus had him killed.

By 'road', I meant increasing humanity's power too far. This can be seen from the examples i provided earlier about the Asari captives, the taking over of the Geth, and the enslavement of the Rachni. Those are all actions that would infuriate the other races.

[Kaiser Shepard]

111987 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

And if a war breaks out, there would simply be no way humanity would emerge victorious.

Probably true, but nobody else would emerge victorious either. Nobody will commit to such a destructive war, especially one that THEY have to start.

Remember: humanity has not attacked or invaded anybody.

Yes, that is true. But Cerberus is definitley the type of organization to push humanity down that road. Humanity doesn't have to necesarrily attack the other races to have a war begin. If the consolidation of power begins to affect the other races too adversely, which is definitely a possibility, humanity will be in trouble.

And the Krogan Rebellions and Rachni Wars show that while the Council races will seek peaceful alternatives first, if they are forced to fight to the death, they will.

Eh, what? All those show are their willingness to sacrifice others for their own cause, and how quickly they are to stab those others in the back.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 30 novembre 2011 - 01:08 .

[DiebytheSword]

Humanity expanded into Turian territory, and were attacked for it. Garden worlds are at a premium. Additionally the Batarian Hegemony has never officially declared war on, or attacked Humanity. Batarian pirates did however attack more than once. The actions of a few are not the entire species or even its government. Ceberus is not humanity by that same token, and its actions cannot be used against the Systems Alliance.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The Collectors and batarians attacked us first. We retaliated. There's a difference.

The batarians attacked because they think the humans stole their planets.

[MisterJB]

Someone With Mass wrote...
The batarians attacked because they think the humans stole their planets.

Humans never founded a colony on a world that was already being settled and the Verge was never officially Batarian territory.