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[Jedi Master of Orion]

What has paranoia got to do with anything? She could still be a paranoid Knight Commander and an earnest Andrastian at the same time. She calls out to the Maker constantly in the final battle with Hawke and his comrades and allies.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 26 novembre 2011 - 10:43 .

[AlexXIV]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

What has paranoia got to do with anything? She could still be a paranoid Knight Commander and an earnest Andrastian at the same time. She calls out to the Maker constantly in the final battle with Hawke and his comrades and allies.

She calls out to the Maker while wielding her ancient lyrium sword. That's as if I'd paint a cross on a nuclear bomb and throw drop it on some 'heretics' shouting 'Jehova!!!'. Paranoia is a sort of fear. If you are a true believer you need not fear anything, not even death. Also as I said belief should guard you from madness. If it throws you into madness it is something different that may only look like belief.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 27 novembre 2011 - 12:37 .

[Heimdall]

AlexXIV wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

What has paranoia got to do with anything? She could still be a paranoid Knight Commander and an earnest Andrastian at the same time. She calls out to the Maker constantly in the final battle with Hawke and his comrades and allies.

She calls out to the Maker while wielding her ancient lyrium sword. That's as if I'd paint a cross on a nuclear bomb and throw drop it on some 'heretics' shouting 'Jehova!!!'. Paranoia is a sort of fear. If you are a true believer you need not fear anything, not even death. Also as I said belief should guard you from madness. If it throws you into madness it is something different that may only look like belief.

I think the word might be fanaticism.

[GavrielKay]

This is only barely on topic... but there are the rumors that Andraste was a mage, and mages can be spoken to by demons/spirits from the Fade. What if the "Maker" that Andraste spoke to was a demon of Pride or something? Very powerful and able to feed on her belief that she was special and could free the Tevinter slaves. She could have believed utterly that she was dealing with a god, and would have been very convincing to those around her. She might even have been some sort of abomination like Anders and Wynne. Perhaps the "maker" was killed when Andraste was burned?

[esper]

To add my two cent in, because I just can't let a chance to critizise the chantry go by. What I don't understand and never will understand is why the Chantry wants the Maker back. According to them, he has a record of abonding his children and dealing out punishment out of proportion with the crime (the blight). Even if the chant is song from all four corner of the world (or Thedas) there are still going to be people who has the potential to ****** the Maker off, because quite frankly, he is easy to anger and what is he goingn to do next time? Just abondon his children again? Or another blight like punishment? Why would anyone want that deity's attention back? Personally I hope that the Maker doesn't exits, but I will say once more that I don't want the answer to the question, simply because religion should stay religion. It makes the setting more interesting. There is no need that just because it is a fantasy setting that the god of the world has to exits. Religion should be a matter of belief.

As for Andrastate I could easily see her as a mage and perhaps even a blood mage/spirit healer. I could honestly see a confused (or just andrastian) Faith spirit wreck havocs with people belief as much as I could see a demon do it. On the other hand I think that demons would love to play a god, but again if Andraste's maker is a demon it would be as good as a deconfirmation of the Chantry's beleif which I am not interested in.

[whykikyouwhy]

Wanting the Maker to return could be due to a few things - wanting to feel all of the positive things from a deity, and wanting to see/access the Golden City. By showing the Maker that they are penitent and faithful, the Thedan people may be hoping to find favor again - and perhaps if the Maker turns his gaze back to the living world, things will be better (though how that is measured probably differs from chantry to chantry and person to person).

If the Golden City was supposed to be the equivalent of heaven, then the Maker's return might mean that people would again be able to access the ethereal paradise.

The Chantry may not see the Maker's abandonment as anything moody or petulent. They may actually see that as directly caused by the sin of hubris. Correct the sin, make things right, get all the rich, golden cake-y goodness again.

Just a guess though.

[esper]

Butr they seem to think that they can enter paradise (ie. the Maker's side) when they die anyway.

Now, Leliana's personal belief, I can understand, but the official chantry version: No, that Maker has all the sign of being a malevolent deity to me. Also since the Chantry sees spirits as virtues and the first born. The Maker abonded them first, so obviously it is not pure virtous behaviour he wants. Also there is the whole Andraste thing. The Maker clearly has some human charateristic.

Modifié par esper, 27 novembre 2011 - 07:11 .

[Gervaise]

Actually esper is right about there being contradictions in the Maker's attitude as displayed in the Chant of Light. His First Children, the spirits spent their time doing nothing but sing songs of praise to the Maker. He didn't like this because they weren't doing anything constructive, so he created the material world and gave the beings within it a burning desire to act and create. It would appear that with neither group did he actually tell them what was required in advance, so the spirits upset him by not doing anything other than worship him and the material beings upset him for being so constructive and inventive that they no longer needed or thought about him. So you could think, you're damned if you do worship him and you're damned if you don't.

[Mr.House]

The one thing that stands out to me is that Cory says Gods, not God. Which means Cory and his other mages did not go to teh city to usurp the maker since they where not told too. They where told by Dumat that going to the city they would get the power of the Gods, which contradicts the whole thing the Chantry says. This also does not mean they where the first Darkspawn at all. Dwarfs have records that talk about the first attack from the Darkspawn, which also contradicts the Chantry.

Overall the Chantry took a true event and twisted it to there own needs.

[whykikyouwhy]

Mr.House wrote...

The one thing that stands out to me is that Cory says Gods, not God. Which means Cory and his other mages did not go to teh city to usurp the maker since they where not told too. They where told by Dumat that going to the city they would get the power of the Gods, which contradicts the whole thing the Chantry says. This also does not mean they where the first Darkspawn at all. Dwarfs have records that talk about the first attack from the Darkspawn, which also contradicts the Chantry.

Overall the Chantry took a true event and twisted it to there own needs.

But you could easily look at the pluralization as evidence (of a fashion) that there were/are a multitude of divine beings, and that the Maker is (could be) one of them. The Chantry views him as the superior being, and thus seeks to direct all worship toward him.

So too, what the Rotten Twinkie City was/is is still open to interpretation. Maybe Corypheus & company were told that the golden version was the seat of the gods, or the prison (if the story that the Maker imprisoned them is true). Free the gods, get the power - that sort of thing.

I think that there is definitely some skewing of real events, but to what degree is the hazy part.

[Mr.House]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

The one thing that stands out to me is that Cory says Gods, not God. Which means Cory and his other mages did not go to teh city to usurp the maker since they where not told too. They where told by Dumat that going to the city they would get the power of the Gods, which contradicts the whole thing the Chantry says. This also does not mean they where the first Darkspawn at all. Dwarfs have records that talk about the first attack from the Darkspawn, which also contradicts the Chantry.

Overall the Chantry took a true event and twisted it to there own needs.

But you could easily look at the pluralization as evidence (of a fashion) that there were/are a multitude of divine beings, and that the Maker is (could be) one of them. The Chantry views him as the superior being, and thus seeks to direct all worship toward him.

So too, what the Rotten Twinkie City was/is is still open to interpretation. Maybe Corypheus & company were told that the golden version was the seat of the gods, or the prison (if the story that the Maker imprisoned them is true). Free the gods, get the power - that sort of thing.

I think that there is definitely some skewing of real events, but to what degree is the hazy part.

The Chantry beleives in one God and his wife, the Chantry teaches that the old magisters attacked the Golden city to steal his power. We know this is not true anymore since we now have proof from someone who was there, and it still does not mean that was the creation of the Darkspawn. For all we know thwe Qunari made the Darkspawn and they found their way to Thedas.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Corypheus worshiped the Old Gods. Why would he be talking about the Maker when talking about "the power of the gods?"

No matter their power, their triumphs,
The mage-lords of Tevinter were men
And doomed to die.
Then a voice whispered within their hearts,
Shall you surrender your power
To time like the beasts of the fields?
You are the Lords of the earth!
Go forth to claim the empty throne
Of Heaven and be gods.

Nothing in Corypheus's speech directly contradicts the Chant and neither does dwarven history.

[TEWR]

GavrielKay wrote...

This is only barely on topic... but there are the rumors that Andraste was a mage, and mages can be spoken to by demons/spirits from the Fade. What if the "Maker" that Andraste spoke to was a demon of Pride or something? Very powerful and able to feed on her belief that she was special and could free the Tevinter slaves. She could have believed utterly that she was dealing with a god, and would have been very convincing to those around her. She might even have been some sort of abomination like Anders and Wynne. Perhaps the "maker" was killed when Andraste was burned?

an interesting thought, but I think it would take an extremely powerful demon to be able to trick a mage.

IMO, Andraste was a blood mage since she gave Shartan a blade that was imbued with blood magic properties, along with the little book we have saying she might have been a mage.

There's an enjoyable amount of irony in the idea that the person who brought down the Imperium -- known throughout the world for their use of blood magic -- was in fact a blood mage.'

And the idea that the Chantry wanted this sort of information to never be known -- since the book we know of was burned and I have no doubt that the Chantry would burn information that threatened their power -- seems to strengthen my belief that they warped everything about Andraste so they could persecute mages.

Food for thought: has anyone found it odd that in Haven the Revered Father happens to be a mage and the citizens of Haven harken back to the time of Andraste?

[TEWR]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

But you could easily look at the pluralization as evidence (of a fashion) that there were/are a multitude of divine beings, and that the Maker is (could be) one of them. The Chantry views him as the superior being, and thus seeks to direct all worship toward him.

Actually the Chantry views the Maker as the only god. They see all others as false "gods".

Though I remember a DG quote saying that the Old Gods certainly are gods.

[Mr.House]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Corypheus worshiped the Old Gods. Why would he be talking about the Maker when talking about "the power of the gods?"

No matter their power, their triumphs,
The mage-lords of Tevinter were men
And doomed to die.
Then a voice whispered within their hearts,
Shall you surrender your power
To time like the beasts of the fields?
You are the Lords of the earth!
Go forth to claim the empty throne
Of Heaven and be gods.

Nothing in Corypheus's speech directly contradicts the Chant and neither does dwarven history.

The Chantry says the Magisters went into the golden city to steal the Makers power, the Makers. Not the gods, which is what Cory said, which Dumat told him and his other followers. It does contradict what the Chantry tells us, so do the dwarfes since the dwarfes say the first darkspawn looked like us but diffrent and came from under, not above. Magisters don't live underground last time I checked.

[Lynata]

AlexXIV wrote...
If you are a true believer you need not fear anything, not even death.

A true believer can always fear - fear that he or she is not doing the right thing, or not enough. Which is exactly what Meredith did. In fact, fear is a very common theme in organized religion. What do you think the concept of "hell" was for?

In case you missed it, she wasn't afraid of death, she was afraid she might've been wrong about everything - as part of her believed that the Maker would not allow her to be defeated otherwise, or worse, even have lent his strength to Hawke.

"Why is this taking so long? Can ones so evil truly be so powerful? Maker, guide your servant. Please, tell me what I must do! What if... I'm not doing the right thing? What if this is all madness?... No! I must remain vigilant!"

Modifié par Lynata, 28 novembre 2011 - 12:43 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Mr.House wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Corypheus worshiped the Old Gods. Why would he be talking about the Maker when talking about "the power of the gods?"

No matter their power, their triumphs,
The mage-lords of Tevinter were men
And doomed to die.
Then a voice whispered within their hearts,
Shall you surrender your power
To time like the beasts of the fields?
You are the Lords of the earth!
Go forth to claim the empty throne
Of Heaven and be gods.

Nothing in Corypheus's speech directly contradicts the Chant and neither does dwarven history.

The Chantry says the Magisters went into the golden city to steal the Makers power, the Makers. Not the gods, which is what Cory said, which Dumat told him and his other followers. It does contradict what the Chantry tells us, so do the dwarfes since the dwarfes say the first darkspawn looked like us but diffrent and came from under, not above. Magisters don't live underground last time I checked.

The Chantry believes what the Chant of Light says. And that canticle (Threnodies, it's in the Codex) is what the Chant says on the subject. It doesn't contradict what Corypheus said. In fact, it pretty much confirms it.

"You offered the power of the gods themselves."

That sounds like:

"Go forth to claim the empty throne
Of Heavan and be gods."

The Chantry doesn't say the first darkspawn just went right back to Tevinter to hang out. Why couldn't they have gone underground? The Dwarven accounts really don't say anything about where they came from. And the Chant says the Magisters fled underground to search for the Old Gods. The Memories in Orzammar also say the darkspawn were searching for the Old Gods.

"The Memories hold no explanations for the coming of the darkspawn, only questions." - History of Orzammar: Chapter One. It's another Codex entry.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 28 novembre 2011 - 03:17 .

[TEWR]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...


The Chantry believes what the Chant of Light says. And that canticle (Threnodies, it's in the Codex) is what the Chant says on the subject. It doesn't contradict what Corypheus said. In fact, it pretty much confirms it.

"You offered the power of the gods themselves."

That sounds like:

"Go forth to claim the empty throne
Of Heavan and be gods."

to be fair, the Tevinter Magisters did know about the Maker and his being a deity. But I have to agree that it does confirm some of the Chant. The Magisters did invade the Golden City, but they became the first Awakened Darkspawn, and not the first Darkspawn in existence.

The Chantry doesn't say the first darkspawn just went right back to Tevinter to hang out. Why couldn't they have gone underground? The Dwarven accounts really don't say anything about where they came from.

 
Wrong. The codex says that the Darkspawn rose up from the earth and looked just like the Dwarves. That means they were Genlocks. And Genlocks now actually rise up out of the earth.

I have a hard time believing that some Magisters -- who became Awakened Darkspawn and are thus cut off from hearing the call of the Old Gods -- were able to go underground, not be noticed by the Dwarves that inhabited the underground Empire, and dig for years and years to find an Old God.

They can't hear the Old Gods and thus don't know where the hell they are. And I have a hard time believing that the Magisters are suddenly gifted with the knowledge of making broodmothers after becoming Awakened Darkspawn.

If that was the case, then the Architect would've known not to try his Joining on a broodmother since they're Ghouls and not Darkspawn.

Not to mention there's more to link the Dwarves of the Primeval Thaig to the emergence of the Darkspawn then there is the Magisters.

And the Chant says the Magisters fled underground to search for the Old Gods. The Memories in Orzammar also say the darkspawn were searching for the Old Gods.

"The Memories hold no explanations for the coming of the darkspawn, only questions." - History of Orzammar: Chapter One. It's another Codex entry.

Going to look that codex up, because if that line is all you're using to support the statement that the Dwarves also search for the Old Gods, then that's not gonna fly.


It all checks out.  

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 28 novembre 2011 - 04:04 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


to be fair, the Tevinter Magisters did know about the Maker and his being a deity. But I have to agree that it does confirm some of the Chant. The Magisters did invade the Golden City, but they became the first Awakened Darkspawn, and not the first Darkspawn in existence.

I don't see any reason to think this.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Wrong. The codex says that the Darkspawn rose up from the earth and looked just like the Dwarves. That means they were Genlocks. And Genlocks now actually rise up out of the earth.

I have a hard time believing that some Magisters -- who became Awakened Darkspawn and are thus cut off from hearing the call of the Old Gods -- were able to go underground, not be noticed by the Dwarves that inhabited the underground Empire, and dig for years and years to find an Old God.

They can't hear the Old Gods and thus don't know where the hell they are. And I have a hard time believing that the Magisters are suddenly gifted with the knowledge of making broodmothers after becoming Awakened Darkspawn.

It is common knowledge that the dwarves were the first race to encoutner the darkspawn horde. However the dwarves have no answers to the question of where they came from. The Chantry does. The Deep Roads are huge, and even the dwarves couldn't  know all of it at their height. If a handfullof dwarves were to flee to the surface could the Tevinter Imperium have known about it? Obviously the Magisters didn't dig for the Old Gods by themselves, but I fail to see why they couldn't know how to create broodmothers.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Going to look that codex up, because if that line is all you're using to support  the statement that the Dwarves also search for the Old Gods, then that's not gonna fly.

What? I said the Dwarves knew the darkspawn were searching for the Old Gods not the dwarves were searching
for themselves. The full pertinent part of the codex entry is:


The Memories hold no explanations for the coming of the darkspawn, only questions. At first, they were rumors, noises in the Deep Roads, a lost traveler here and there. The Warrior Caste sent men to patrol the road, and thought the matter settled. We did not know that while we searched for them, they were engaged in a search of their own. Sleeping deep in the Stone itself was the archdemon. They found him, and awakened him, and the Blight began.

- The History of Orzammar: Chapter One.

I suppose I probably should have put the whole thing in the first time.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 28 novembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
If that was the case, then the Architect would've known not to try his Joining on a broodmother since they're Ghouls and not Darkspawn.

The Architect has not been confirmed to be a magister.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Not to mention there's more to link the Dwarves of the Primeval Thaig to the emergence of the Darkspawn then there is the Magisters.

I don't see anything to link the Primeval Thaig to the darkspawn. The codex makes it quite clear that those regions of the deep roads are inexplicably free of darkspawn. If they were the source of the darkspawn they should be swarming with tainted creatures.The Legion of the Dead accounts say the rock wraiths attack darkspawn just as easily as anyone.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 28 novembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[TEWR]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I don't see any reason to think this.

I do. Darkspawn are by their very nature mindless creatures, and the Architect says that he is unlike his brethren in that he was sentient for as long as he has existed.

He was born as he was is what he says.

Now, were one to think that upon invading the Golden City the Magisters were reborn as it were into new creatures, then they would be born again.

It is common knowledge that the dwarves were the first race to encoutner the darkspawn horde. However the dwarves have no answers to the question of where they came from. The Chantry does.

 
The Chantry has a story that has only a grain of truth to it.

Every lie has a little truth to it.

They say the Darkspawn -- the mindless Darkspawn -- are the result of the Magisters.  Just because they got one thing right doesn't mean they got the rest right.

The Deep Roads are huge, and even the dwarves couldn't  know all of it at their height. If a handfullof dwarves were to flee to the surface could the Tevinter Imperium have known about it? Obviously the Magisters didn't dig for the Old Gods by themselves, but I fail to see why they couldn't know how to create broodmothers.

Simply because that's something that comes to the mindless Darkspawn through instinct or their nature or whatever you want to call it.

I don't see how the Magisters would even know the broodmother process would create Darkspawn that are connected to the Old Gods.

And hell to go even further ... why would the Tevinter Magisters think it would be a good idea for them to kidnap women, rape them, turn them into insect queens, create an army of Hurlocks  -- which would contradict the fact that the first Darkspawn to be seen were Genlocks -- to go ahead and dig and find an Old God?
 
And then upon finding said Old God, they don't even bother to take the blame and say "****... we just created an army of evil incarnate that wants to destroy the world."

Nope, instead they think destroying the world is better because they can command a bunch of mindless mooks.



Sounds more facepalm inducing than anything else.

I suppose I probably should have put the whole thing in the first time.

Yea I just hadn't read that particular codex for a while so that's why I was skeptical at first.

The Architect has not been confirmed to be a magister.

It seems like he is. He's wearing Tevinter style robes and a headdress and they're fused into his skin.

It's also a bit odd how he somehow immediately knows which Old God the Warden fought when it takes modern scholars years and years to just agree on which Old God was which, and even then there are doubts that they got it right.

But, you're right that since it hasn't been outright stated -- though it has been heavily implied -- he hasn't been confirmed to be one.

However, I will maintain that he is a Magister-turned-Awakened-Darkspawn.

I don't see anything to link the Primeval Thaig to the darkspawn. The codex makes it quite clear that those regions of the deep roads are inexplicably free of darkspawn. If they were the source of the darkspawn they should be swarming with tainted creatures.The Legion of the Dead accounts say the rock wraiths attack darkspawn just as easily as anyone.

How about the fact that the red lyrium in the final battle with Meredith makes the same whispering sounds that the Reaver Joining -- which is connected with Dragons -- and the Warden Joining -- which is connected with the Old Gods, who are very powerful Dragons -- makes?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 28 novembre 2011 - 05:27 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I don't see any reason to think this.

I do. Darkspawn are by their very nature mindless creatures, and the Architect says that he is unlike his brethren in that he was sentient for as long as he has existed.

He was born as he was is what he says.

Now, were one to think that upon invading the Golden City the Magisters were reborn as it were into new creatures, then they would be born again.

I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say here.

 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
The Chantry has a story that has only a grain of truth to it.

Every lie has a little truth to it.

They say the Darkspawn -- the mindless Darkspawn -- are the result of the Magisters.  Just because they got one thing right doesn't mean they got the rest right.

My point was just that they have an answer. Right or wrong. The Dwarves have none. Hence there's less to contradict about their story.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Simply because that's something that comes to the mindless Darkspawn through instinct or their nature or whatever you want to call it.

I don't see how the Magisters would even know the broodmother process would create Darkspawn that are connected to the Old Gods.

And hell to go even further ... why would the Tevinter Magisters think it would be a good idea for them to kidnap women, rape them, turn them into insect queens, create an army of Hurlocks  -- which would contradict the fact that the first Darkspawn to be seen were Genlocks -- to go ahead and dig and find an Old God?

 
And then upon finding said Old God, they don't even bother to take the blame and say "****... we just created an army of evil incarnate that wants to destroy the world."

Nope, instead they think destroying the world is better because they can command a bunch of mindless mooks.



Sounds more facepalm inducing than anything else.

There is nothing in the Chant of Light or the story about magisters being the first darkspawn that says that the first darkspawn were hurlocks. I never believed otherwise when the dwarves said that genlocks were seen first or mostly seen first. The Chant says that the blighted magisters and darkspawn were drawn to the Old Gods. If the regular darkspawn are able to make a broodmother by instict, I can't see any reason the intelligent ones wouldn't have the same instict. Although if it's a complicated procedure, perhaps the origonal broodmothers were specifically engineered by the magisters to create an army. All they would really need would be to spread the taint.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
How about the fact that the red lyrium in the final battle with Meredith makes the same whispering sounds that the Reaver Joining -- which is connected with Dragons -- and the Warden Joining -- which is connected with the Old Gods, who are very powerful Dragons -- makes?

That one reused sound file is not enough to make me think there is any connection when everything else about that level and the lore we learn implies the opposite. Besides, if the sound is used for Ducan sensing regular darkspawn and the reaver ritual, are they related too?

[Firky]

Hi. OP here. Heheh. This topic turned into something heaps better than the questions I originally asked. (And I've been hanging off every word, but I'm personally still just fascinated by items, really.)

A parallel question. Why does Malcolm Hawke appear to have gear called "... of the Awakened." Is it just because he was forced to blood magically seal Corypheus' prison? Or does the word imply something else, do you think?

I may be jumping to conclusions and they might not be his, but I think they are. What I've found so far are an item in the Mage Pack DLC and an item in ferelden imports. Ring of the Awakened and Awakened's might.

[TEWR]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say here.

I think my point was that the Magisters retained their selfhood upon turning into Darkspawn, and are thus the first of the Awakened Darkspawn.

And that, if one were to subscribe to the theory that the Darkspawn rendering of the invasion was a sort of weird reincarnation, it would help explain why the Architect was born as he was in his mind.

If the Architect was a Magister -- which seems highly likely -- then when he became a Darkspawn he was reborn as something else.

My point was just that they have an answer. Right or wrong. The Dwarves have none. Hence there's less to contradict about their story.

So.... because the Dwarves are honest in that they have absolutely no idea what the origins of the Darkspawn were, the Chantry automatically gets more points for their story which has only a grain of truth to it?

Doesn't seem fair. Or right for that matter.

There is nothing in the Chant of Light or the story about magisters being the first darkspawn that says that the first darkspawn were hurlocks. I never believed otherwise when the dwarves said that genlocks were seen first or mostly seen first. The Chant says that the blighted magisters and darkspawn were drawn to the Old Gods. If the regular darkspawn are able to make a broodmother by instict, I can't see any reason the intelligent ones wouldn't have the same instict. Although if it's a complicated procedure, perhaps the origonal broodmothers were specifically engineered by the magisters to create an army. All they would really need would be to spread the taint.

Well, technically the Magisters -- assuming they were all human when they invaded -- became Awakened Hurlock Emissaries.

And I had a brief lapse in memory where I thought that when a Darkspawn rapes a woman, that woman becomes a broodmother of the Darkspawn that raped her (meaning for a brief moment I thought a Genlock raping a woman would make a broodmother that churns out Genlocks). But it doesn't work like that. My mistake.

I should probably head to bed because of that lapse in memory, since only Dwarven women make Genlocks, human women make Hurlocks, and so on and so forth.

And it's in the nature of the mindless Darkspawn to make broodmothers. It's just something they do. Just like it's in a primate's nature to fling his poop. Is it in our nature to fling our poop?

I have to wonder though if an Awakened Darkspawn like the Architect or Corypheus is even able to make broodmothers. Most likely they are, though it would be interesting if they weren't.

That one reused sound file is not enough to make me think there is any connection when everything else about that level and the lore we learn implies the opposite. Besides, if the sound is used for Ducan sensing regular darkspawn and the reaver ritual, are they related too?

Actually it's used for the Warden Joining ritual. I don't think it's used for Duncan sensing Darkspawn, but even if it is I'm pretty sure that the sound is whispering of Dragons.

And yes, it is related. The Reavers happen to be connected to the Dragon they drank the blood from. It's partially why the Dragons don't attack them.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 28 novembre 2011 - 08:02 .

[TEWR]

Firky wrote...

Hi. OP here. Heheh. This topic turned into something heaps better than the questions I originally asked. (And I've been hanging off every word, but I'm personally still just fascinated by items, really.)

A parallel question. Why does Malcolm Hawke appear to have gear called "... of the Awakened." Is it just because he was forced to blood magically seal Corypheus' prison? Or does the word imply something else, do you think?

I may be jumping to conclusions and they might not be his, but I think they are. What I've found so far are an item in the Mage Pack DLC and an item in ferelden imports. Ring of the Awakened and Awakened's might.

I don't know if they're Malcolm's items, but Awakened doesn't really have to mean an Awakened Darkspawn. It could just mean that he was enlightened.

At least, I think awakened in that context could mean someone who was enlightened.

I dunno.