10 réponses à ce sujet

[Aelius28]

Basically, I want Oghren to prioritize mages over everything else and I want his second priority to be enemies that are Elite or higher in rank. Here's what I have:

1) Self: Health <30% -> Use: Greater Health Poultice
2) Self: Health <60% -> Use: health poultice: least powerful
3) Self: Combat -> Activate: Berserk
4) Self: Any -> Activate: Indomitable
5) Enemy: Nearest visible mage -> Jump to: 8
6) Enemy: Rank is Elite or higher -> Jump to: 8
7) Enemy: Nearest visible -> Attack
8) Enemy: Any -> Mighty Blow
9) Enemy: Any -> Pummel Strike
10) Enemy: Any -> Attack

So I would think that as soon as he encounters a mage, it jumps to tactic 8 and attempts to Mighty Blow and Pummel Strike the mage and then attack it. If no mage is spotted, then it checks to see if there are Elites or higher, and if so then it goes to tactic 8 and does the same thing that it would do to mages. If there are no mages nor elites/bosses, then tactic 7 should make him attack whatever's nearest.

However, what ends up happening is that Oghren does not target the nearest mage. He targets non-mages and even uses his Mighty Blow and Pummel Strike on them too. It's as if tactic 5 is being completely ignored. Interestingly, when I changed tactic 5 to: "Enemy: Nearest visible mage -> Attack", Oghren does immediately attack the nearest mage. But as soon as I change it back to "Enemy: Nearest visible mage -> Jump to: 8" he goes on attacking non-mages.

The "Jump to: 8" command does work properly, because when I change tactic 8 to: "Enemy: Nearest visible mage", Oghren immediately attempts to Mighty Blow the nearest mage.

According to the Dragon Age Wiki, the "Enemy: Any" setting does not change the target. It acts upon the current target. Therefore, I don't think this problem can be explained by saying that as soon as it gets to tactic 8 it treats "Enemy: Any" as a command to randomly target any nearby enemy. Sure enough, even when I change tactics 8-10 to be "Target: Any" rather than "Enemy: Any", Oghren still does not attack mages as he should be.

Also, tactic 6 and 7 are not causing any problems, because even when I disable them Oghren still attacks non-mages first.

So I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong here. The "Enemy: Nearest visible mage" condition does work, because when I set the action to be "attack", Oghren correctly attacks the nearest mage. The tactic jumping does work because when I make the jump destination have Oghren target mages, he does so. The "Enemy: Any" condition should not be changing targets, and furthermore this problem persists even when I make it "Target: Any" instead of "Enemy: Any".

I'm out of ideas... what's going on?

Modifié par Aelius28, 22 novembre 2011 - 10:44 .

[Zy-El]

The Jump to command does not work. Your tactics are prioritized according to the order in which they are listed. Tactic 7 is redundant. Oghren will always attack the nearest visible foe by default if you have Aggressive set.

Just change to:
5 > Enemy: Nearest visible mage -> Mighty Blow
6 > Enemy: Nearest visible mage -> Pummuel Stike
7 > Enemy: Nearest visible mage -> Attack
8 > Enemy: Rank is Elite or higher -> Mighty Blow
9 > Enemy: Rank is Elite or higher -> Pummel Strike
10 > Enemy: Rank is Elite or higher -> Attack

[Aelius28]

All right, thanks, that should work. But I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the Jump to command does not work. When I change tactic 8 to "Enemy: Nearest visible mage -> Mighty Blow", Oghren correctly jumps from 5 to 8, skipping 6 and 7. It's just when tactic 8 is "Enemy: Any" that it fails to work.

[gandanlin]

Just as a point of interest, it may be worth noting that the mage class is quite broad.

Any enemy capable of using magic will be included in the mage class.

[Aelius28]

gandanlin wrote...

Just as a point of interest, it may be worth noting that the mage class is quite broad.

Any enemy capable of using magic will be included in the mage class.

Yeah, I figured that might be the problem so I tested it. I set the first tactic to be "Enemy: Nearest visible mage -> Attack" and Oghren immediately stopped attacking a warrior opponent and went straight to the enemy mage. When I changed it back to my original tactics layout, which should work the same, he continued to attack the warrior.

[gandanlin]

What I meant was that "mage" will include all ordinary mages but also enemies such as ogres, certain zombie corpses (I can never remember which ones -- shambling, maybe), and several other types of enemies. Even some deepstalkers will be classed as mages, which seems rather odd to me, but apparently spitting poison is a sort of magic attack.

[Aelius28]

gandanlin wrote...

What I meant was that "mage" will include all ordinary mages but also enemies such as ogres, certain zombie corpses (I can never remember which ones -- shambling, maybe), and several other types of enemies. Even some deepstalkers will be classed as mages, which seems rather odd to me, but apparently spitting poison is a sort of magic attack.

I understand, but that cannot account for the problem I'm experiencing. I'll explain why:

In my current position in the game, I have it saved just before an encounter with three mercenary units. Two are apparently warriors and one is apparently a mage. With the tactic layout I showed in my first post, Oghren attacks one of the warriors and uses his abilities on the warrior. However, when I change tactic 5 to "attack" instead of "jump to tactic 8":

1) Self: Health <30% -> Use: Greater Health Poultice
2) Self: Health <60% -> Use: health poultice: least powerful
3) Self: Combat -> Activate: Berserk
4) Self: Any -> Activate: Indomitable
5) Enemy: Nearest visible mage -> Attack
6) Enemy: Rank is Elite or higher -> Jump to: 8
7) Enemy: Nearest visible -> Attack
8) Enemy: Any -> Mighty Blow
9) Enemy: Any -> Pummel Strike
10) Enemy: Any -> Attack

..Oghren immediately starts attacking the mage. Even if he's currently engaging the warrior, if I pause the game and make the above tactic change, as soon as I unpause Oghren immediately ceases attacking the warrior, turns around 180 degrees, and charges the mage.

Therefore, it's not a problem of what the game considers to be a mage. If that was the problem, then changing tactic 5 to "Nearest visible mage -> Attack" would not cause Oghren to stop attacking his current warrior target and attack the mage.

There may be cases where the game considers a mage to be something weird like a Deepstalker, but that  cannot be the problem I'm experiencing in my tests.

[gandanlin]

Sorry, got called away yesterday before I saw your post.

Tactics can be tricky. My guess is that there are a number of hidden variables that influence how tactics are applied in gameplay. And the longer the list of tactics, the more likely it is the character will get into a muddle or do something unexpected. Sometimes less is more.

I've never used the "jump to..." tactic. So I can't really say if it is glitched or not. Zy-El seemed to think it was.

Modifié par gandanlin, 23 novembre 2011 - 10:57 .

[Gallimatia]

It seems you are expecting "Enemy: Nearest visible mage -> Jump to: 8" to have Oghren targeting mages. It will not. It just has him jumping to tactic 8 when one is present. If tactic 8 then tells him to attack anyone then that is what he will do.

[Aelius28]

Gallimatia wrote...

It seems you are expecting "Enemy: Nearest visible mage -> Jump to: 8" to have Oghren targeting mages. It will not. It just has him jumping to tactic 8 when one is present. If tactic 8 then tells him to attack anyone then that is what he will do.

Yeah, that's what I've come to the conclusion of too. The Wiki erroneously indicates that the "Enemy:" command (such as "Enemy: Nearest visible mage") actually targets it. Here's what the Wiki says, relevant parts bolded+underlined by me:

• The enemy target is set using tactics from the Enemy
  condition tiers that result in an attempted attack. The following tactic
  conditions should be used to set or change a target.
  
  • Enemy:Status
  • Enemy:Lowest/Highest Health
  • Enemy:Clustered
  • Enemy:Nearest Visible
  • Enemy:Nearest Visible class
    
  • Enemy:Attacking Party Member
  • Enemy:Target of Party Member
  • Enemy:Rank
• The following will not change the enemy target but are used for
  conditions on the existing target. These conditions will be false if
  there is no target for the character
  
  • Enemy:Any
    
  • Enemy:Health
  • Enemy:Has Armour Type
  • Enemy:Target At Range
  • Enemy:Target Using Attack Type

[Gallimatia]

"Enemy: Nearest Visible Mage" has the character targeting the nearest visible mage if and only if paired with a command that uses a target.

If the line is "Enemy: Nearest Visible Mage -> Pommle Strike" then the pommel strike will be used on the nearest visible mage who will then be the target. If the line is "Enemy: Nearest Visible Mage -> Activate Indomitable" Oghren will activate Indomitable upon spotting a mage and then proceed with hitting whoever he was hitting before. No change of target because the command did not require one. It's always like this. It's the reason tactics such as "Enemy: Attacking Morrigan -> Taunt" fail. The taunt and the taunter is not in any way directed at the enemy attacking Morrigan because taunt does not have a target. If you use "Enemy: Attacking Morrigan -> Shield Bash" on the other hand...

The Jump command like activating intomitable and taunt does not have a target. It is a simple true of false check. If it checks as true it will perform the tactic jump. A jump line will never cause a target change.