142 réponses à ce sujet

[sponge56]

Is the curing of the Genophage an ideal solution?

Pros

1) The Krogan alive in the timeline of the Mass Effect games did not directly do anything to warrant the genophage.  With a few exceptions (such as Okeer and possibly Wrex) the majority of Krogan alive were born after the rebellions had finished, and took no part in them.

2) The Krogan can fight the reapers.  The Krogan would be brilliant shock troops against reaper forces, and although I have not read the spoilers, im sure they have a key part to play aginst the reapers.  Also curing the Genophage acts as an incentive for the Krogan clans to commit their forces.  Curing the Genophage would encourage the Krogan clan chiefs to fight the reapers in order to safeguard their species future.

3) IMO, the Salarians have a 'duty of care' to the Krogan.  As Mordin says, it was like giving children nuclear weapons (or something along those lines).  By uplifting them, the Salarians have take responcibility for the education and direction that the Krogan have taken.  Simply unleashing the genophage and allowing the species to rot and destroy itself shows extreme neglegance on the part of the Salarian government.

4) The genophage is essentially a war crime.  While not directly aimed at genocide, the indirect result of the genophage is heading towards this.  As Wrex said himself, the Krogan are dying out due to their natural war like nature and their lack of numbers.

5) The Krogan seem to have the potential to change.  Under Wrex, the Krogan seem to be attempting to adapt and unify themselves in some way, whilst still retaining their cultural identity.


Cons

1) The Krogan's nature seems to be self destructive.  When they were uplifited, the Krogan had destroyed their own planet and populations through a nuclear apocolypse.  The Salarians could simply be argued as prolonging the inevitable by uplifting them.

2) Theres a reason the genophage existed, the krogan tried to destroy the rest of the galaxy.  By curing the genophage we could be paving a way for new wave of krogan rebellions, and assuming the reapers can be defeated, a weakened galaxy would be very ill equiped to fight off another Krogan 'horde'.  Indeed although the Krogan under Wrex might not do this, the alternative is Wreav (and even with the Wrex option, hes not going to last forever).


So what do people think?  Should the Krogan be allowed to have a new future?  Or is the risk of a post reaper galaxy being crushed under a Krogan boot too much to take?

Also, if anyones got anymore pros or cons tell me, ive rushed this so have probaly missed more points 

Modifié par sponge56, 23 novembre 2011 - 10:50 .

[111987]

For 2) in your Pros list, keep in mind that even if the Genophage is cured, it won't make a difference number-wise against the Reapers. And by curing the Genophage, the Krogan might be more willing to fight stupidly/heroically because they know they are cured, rather than intelligently because they know they can't afford to die or else their species is done for. The Krogan are going to fight regardless; it might actually be better to offer the cure as a reward for their service rather than a prerequisite for it.

And for 5), only Wrex so far has shown any inclination to change. The average Krogan disagrees with Wrex's overall ideas (but not all his strategies, such as the multi-clan camp). You say this in your argument, but I'll reiterate; once Wrex is gone, who's to say the Krogan won't revert right back to what they were before the genophage?

[sponge56]

111987 wrote...

For 2) in your Pros list, keep in mind that even if the Genophage is cured, it won't make a difference number-wise against the Reapers. And by curing the Genophage, the Krogan might be more willing to fight stupidly/heroically because they know they are cured, rather than intelligently because they know they can't afford to die or else their species is done for. The Krogan are going to fight regardless; it might actually be better to offer the cure as a reward for their service rather than a prerequisite for it.

And for 5), only Wrex so far has shown any inclination to change. The average Krogan disagrees with Wrex's overall ideas (but not all his strategies, such as the multi-clan camp). You say this in your argument, but I'll reiterate; once Wrex is gone, who's to say the Krogan won't revert right back to what they were before the genophage?

your point about 5) is covered in 2) in the cons list

[Welsh Inferno]

Curing the genophage is right decision. 

Uplifting the Krogan in the first place was the mistake. They simply were not ready to be welcomed into a galactic society. They needed to be given a few hundred more years to evolve their culture and eventually overcome their lust for battle & violence. I won't argue that the genophage wasn't the wrong idea WHEN they implemented it but they shouldn't have uplifted the Krogan in the first place. IMO(from what I have read) the council races would still have been able to deal with the Rachni, just with a much bigger casualty rate to themselves. During the Krogan Rebellions the Council had to do something at that point, so it was the right decision after they had already got themselves into the mess.

The genophage won't last forever on them and there are signs now that they are finally overcoming all of their shortcomings. Actually giving them the cure, rather than letting tribes squabble over crap trying to cure it would unite them as one again. With a strong, intelligent(for a krogan) leader in Wrex they look like they can finally fit in.

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 22 novembre 2011 - 03:46 .

[elfdwarf]

or do you want yahg join war
more dangerous then krogan to galactic society
cure it then let's fate take course

[mineralica]

Curing the genophage will be bad decision. At least immediately

1) logical reason: krogan value system will be shattered, and entire society will be rather messy. Wrex held his position because of clever politics and because Urdnots were protecting female clans, now every female will be fertile and his power may be compromised. Krogans trying to find their new place in the middle of Reaper invasion... problematic

2) ethical - it's just wrong to decide the fate of krogans again. When they were needed to stop Rachni, they were uplifted. Then discarded and granted with Genophage. And now when galaxy need help it goes after krogans again? I said it many times for now and will say it again: to finally do justice for them, krogans shouldn't be forcefully cured - instead they should get cure (and formula for it) with possibility to use it and, hence, finally control own fate.

[Feanor_II]

Well neither of my paragon and renegade Sheppards cured it....... Something tells me that it will be a bad idea.
My Paragrade Sheppard did it on the other hand.

[BatmanPWNS]

Krogan are alive aren't they? Well then theres no need to bother with curing the genophage.

[Sisterofshane]

If Wrex survives in ME1, then the Krogan are in the beginning changes of a cultural revolution. To cure the genophage is almost out of the question at this point, because it will negate all of the work he will do. If Wrex is killed, then curing the Genophage is still out of the question, because under Wreav the clans are still of the same old mindset.

The only reason in my mind, therefore, in favor of curing the Genophage is to bring the Krogan Fighting Force back to the levels they were during the Rachni Wars. There is some debate as to how long this will take, and whether it would be worth it in the end, but I figure in the war against the Reapers we are already grasping at straws as it were, for methods to destroy them, so any little bit we can come up with will help.

[Killjoy Cutter]

If it gets the Krogan fully dedicated to the fight against the Reapers, then it has to be done. Once the end of the world is averted, then we can deal with things like changes to Krogan society.

[DiebytheSword]

I will likely be curing it in every play through of ME3. Wrex and **** deserve a chance to fix the Krogan, and they are going to get one.

[sponge56]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

If it gets the Krogan fully dedicated to the fight against the Reapers, then it has to be done. Once the end of the world is averted, then we can deal with things like changes to Krogan society.

But is an end to the world via another Krogan rebellion any better than an end to the world by Reapers?

[elfdwarf]

sponge56 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

If it gets the Krogan fully dedicated to the fight against the Reapers, then it has to be done. Once the end of the world is averted, then we can deal with things like changes to Krogan society.

But is an end to the world via another Krogan rebellion any better than an end to the world by Reapers?

what happen if adapt to Genophage again , they will want vengeance ,or give them a cure then will see aliens as friend but we don't know what will happen ,do what ever you want, is no good or bad choices.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Another Krogan rebellion isn't on the same page of bad as the Reapers succeeding. It's not even in the same book.

[111987]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Another Krogan rebellion isn't on the same page of bad as the Reapers succeeding. It's not even in the same book.

But does curing the Krogan give us a better chance of defeating the Reapers?

[Killjoy Cutter]

111987 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Another Krogan rebellion isn't on the same page of bad as the Reapers succeeding. It's not even in the same book.

But does curing the Krogan give us a better chance of defeating the Reapers?

If it gets them to go all-in for the war, it gives us some of the nastiest troops the galaxy has ever seen. 

[Psearo]

Personally I'd take the "middle road" option...
Use Malon's work to increase Krogan birth rates to a better level, but not to what they were.

Wrex's work to unify the clans on Tuchanka has only been possible because of the Genophage.
Swarms of Krogan across the galaxy would still be as bad now as it was before.

[111987]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

111987 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Another Krogan rebellion isn't on the same page of bad as the Reapers succeeding. It's not even in the same book.

But does curing the Krogan give us a better chance of defeating the Reapers?

If it gets them to go all-in for the war, it gives us some of the nastiest troops the galaxy has ever seen. 

Good point. And I'm guessing it will work like that in-game. But realistically, you'd think the Krogan would be all-in and cooperative regardless, cause you know, everyone's dead otherwise.

[DiebytheSword]

111987 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

111987 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Another Krogan rebellion isn't on the same page of bad as the Reapers succeeding. It's not even in the same book.

But does curing the Krogan give us a better chance of defeating the Reapers?

If it gets them to go all-in for the war, it gives us some of the nastiest troops the galaxy has ever seen. 

Good point. And I'm guessing it will work like that in-game. But realistically, you'd think the Krogan would be all-in and cooperative regardless, cause you know, everyone's dead otherwise.

Thats the problem with Diplomacy though, people will work against their own interest for the sake of old grudges.  For the Krogan, going extinct in a battle of epic proportions might not be the worst thing that can happen so long as it was a good fight.

[111987]

DiebytheSword wrote...

111987 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

111987 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Another Krogan rebellion isn't on the same page of bad as the Reapers succeeding. It's not even in the same book.

But does curing the Krogan give us a better chance of defeating the Reapers?

If it gets them to go all-in for the war, it gives us some of the nastiest troops the galaxy has ever seen. 

Good point. And I'm guessing it will work like that in-game. But realistically, you'd think the Krogan would be all-in and cooperative regardless, cause you know, everyone's dead otherwise.

Thats the problem with Diplomacy though, people will work against their own interest for the sake of old grudges.  For the Krogan, going extinct in a battle of epic proportions might not be the worst thing that can happen so long as it was a good fight.

Very true...I guess we have to remember to see it from the perspective of a Krogan and not a Human.

[N172]

Feanor_II wrote...

Well neither of my paragon and renegade Sheppards cured it.......

You do not have any Paragon-Sheppards then, you have more Paragades than you think.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Its not my job to cure the genophage luckily Krogans themselves did make efforts to do it thought they unknowingly went to Saren's company and he made a cure but told them they couldn't. Saren proves it can be done, we know Mordin did it later in 3, but should they get it? As a whole no why because most of them haven't learned the lesson of why they had it inflicted on them anyway most still want to war on anything that moves a few have figured out one must place limits on their actions they can't just take over a world because its there and they want it.

Wrex and that poem Krogan have learned that lesson both these people know how to live and tolerate others. Wrex no longer feels the need to kill his alien neighbors for just existing he will wage war if war is made against him but he won't go provoking it Wrex should get the cure and he decide who should receive it I can imagine Wrex will allow those who are like minded as him to gain the cure while others who want nothing but to war or gravel to not receive it. Now that the cure seems to be in the form of the only unaffected female Krogan in existence maybe that will be how they will control it via limited access but will they cure more like minded girls or not?

[sponge56]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Another Krogan rebellion isn't on the same page of bad as the Reapers succeeding. It's not even in the same book.

Assuming everyones homeworld has been damaged, and their militaries have been vastly reduced due to the reaper war, the krogan could have massive military recources ready in around 25-30 years after the reapers have gone.  Krogan breed fast, and seem to be combat ready and fearsome by the time they are in their early 20s.We could go from surviving the reapers to being destroyed by the Krogan

[Killjoy Cutter]

If you're already convinced, why do you have your thread title in the form of a question?


First, stop the definite end-of-the-world threat of the Reapers. Then, deal with the possible war threat from the Krogan.

[sponge56]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

If you're already convinced, why do you have your thread title in the form of a question?


First, stop the definite end-of-the-world threat of the Reapers. Then, deal with the possible war threat from the Krogan.

Im not convinced, it has no easy answer.  All im saying is that curing the genophage may prevent genocide by reapers but it could also turn into genocide by Krogan.  Its a possible outcome