Aller au contenu

Photo

Stupid characters.


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
149 réponses à ce sujet

#51
Klidi

Klidi
  • Members
  • 790 messages

Merilsell wrote...

It is the killing on the spot thing that grates me. It reminds me how much I hate it when a character gets judged at his/her first appearance. Makes the writer in me furious, because there is always more to a character than one or two attributes. But oh well, some people like to game like that, I suppose. Can't and don't want to change that. I just say that I personally hate such an approach and would never do that.


I agree. I can't enjoy such story or such game - unless it's a parody, of course, and characters are intentionally done as caricatures. But any game or story or whatever that wants to look serious and mature and fails to give depth to characters beyond one or two attributes, loses my interest very quickly.

Of course, it's everyone choice and preference how will they play the game - but I must say I find it strange if someoene ignores some characters and decisions in the game completely, forces himself/herself to romance character they don't really like and then complain that the game sucks. <_<

#52
tmp7704

tmp7704
  • Members
  • 11 156 messages

Merilsell wrote...

It is the killing on the spot thing that grates me. It reminds me how much I hate it when a character gets judged at his/her first appearance. Makes the writer in me furious, because there is always more to a character than one or two attributes.

To be fair, given Zevran's first appearance is a murder attempt, killing him on the spot is a very sensible precaution against further attacks that he could possibly pull off better than that first.

It was the one point in DAO where i pretty much meta-gamed my character's choices -- i knew from the exposure he got it's a potential companion, so i sought high and low for reasons to keep him around (ultimately settling on rather weak "well he's an elf and so is my PC and no one else in the party is, and he complimented and flirted so maaaybe she'd feel like she could keep him around, for a while". But it was a stretch)

Modifié par tmp7704, 27 novembre 2011 - 04:58 .


#53
Merilsell

Merilsell
  • Members
  • 2 927 messages

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

@Merilsell.
My not romancing Zevran has nothing to do with his upbringing, and he is usually my Wardens best friend too.

Edit. Killing Zevran ouright when one first meets him is like......being run over and then blaming it on the car, rather than the driver.


@Djinn: It was not directed at you, more....generally. ;) And yes, it indeed is.

@Vent: Totally high-five here. :wizard:

@Tmp: Yeah, I know that Zev's first appearence is rather...unfortunate and I have even one character who killed him for that. Still even the first time around gaming DA:O without knowing about him being a Squaddie, I haven't killed him right then, but heard his reasons first. As he offered then his services, to help to fight the Blight, I took a moment to wage the option or to kill him. Seeing that there would be one blade more between me (my Warden) and death I spared him. It was a more pragmatic decision, but I never regretted it. Although it took me a while to warm up to his character due to all the easy flirting, I confess.

But I always find it interesting to see (not only in this game) if a character is really only like it seems, or if there are layers that need to peel away to get to a hidden depth. Unsurprisingly it was the case with Zevran and personally I love such characters the most. Where not everything is as it first appeared. Much more interesting this way. ;)

Then again, I'm a character nerd. :lol: I love to create and develop characters myself, so I really, really appreciate if it is well done somewhere (no matter if it is a video game, movie, TV-show, FF or book)

Modifié par Merilsell, 27 novembre 2011 - 05:28 .


#54
tmp7704

tmp7704
  • Members
  • 11 156 messages

Merilsell wrote...

Still even the first time around gaming DA:O without knowing about him being a Squaddie, I haven't killed him right then, but heard his reasons first. As he offered then his services, to help to fight the Blight, I took a moment to wage the option or to kill him. Seeing that there would be one blade more between me (my Warden) and death I spared him. It was a more pragmatic decision, but I never regretted it.

See, but that hinges on believing a paid assassin is telling you honest truth he intends to actually become your faithful guardian, instead of it just being a plain lie to get out of the sticky situation (at best, at worst it's getting a knife stab in the back at first opportunity) ... like a normal person in his spot would. I could already see Morrigan rolling her eyes up to here if i went with that Image IPB

#55
RagingCyclone

RagingCyclone
  • Members
  • 1 990 messages
I admit I am one of those that took a long time to see Zevran's potential. A lot of that depended on what kind of warden I was playing. It wasn't until my third playthrough with a dwarf commoner I had a non meta-gaming reason not to kill him outright. His introduction is one of those that is rather striking in that from a roleplaying aspect you really have to sink yourself into the warden's psyche. Anders in Awakening was another such character that until I played a mage he was one that my warden's could never trust or feel he was reliable. Even my pragmatic noble that is my headcanon never trusts Anders. He spared Zevran on the notion to keep your friends close but your enemies closer...and then the friendship developed from that. Those kinds of characters are wonderful to explore, and in the case of an rpg the type of character you are playing will often determine how much exploration to have with those characters. The last video game character I found that complex and appealing to role play around goes back to Kreia in KOTOR2...and she is one type of character I still hope to see sometime in a future installment of the franchise.

#56
Merilsell

Merilsell
  • Members
  • 2 927 messages
And she DID roll her eyes at that. Understandably, so. Heh, but I love Alistair's reaction to spare Zev all the same. "If desperation were a door, we would have knocked on it now" (paraphrased) :D Gotta luff ma snarky (almost) templar.

#57
tmp7704

tmp7704
  • Members
  • 11 156 messages
Best part of the Zevran thing is Oghren's comment in Awakening, when Nathaniel shows up with his request xD

#58
Klidi

Klidi
  • Members
  • 790 messages
I agree on how the character you play.
My canon Warden, Surana, spared Zev because he was amused by Zev's answers during interrogation. But yes, he is rather naive guy. :D
My 'bastard Cousland' who killed Alistair spared him because he was arrogant enough to think he could handle one little elf.
Mahariel thought to kill someone out of battle was dishonourable, same as the murder.
And Tabris was crazy enough to appreciate the attempt and even gave Zevran tips for future traps.
Dwarves I still have to play longer than Ostagar. I finally decided to download 'skip Ostagar' mod, so I might give it a try. Aeducan might have problem to find a reason to spare him... but Brosca I think could do it.

#59
Guest_Nizaris1_*

Guest_Nizaris1_*
  • Guests

Klidi wrote...

If you never gave him a chance, then you should not judge him. He's so much more than 'bisexual gigolo'. Even if you don't romance him, he can be a great friend, willing to die for you.


well, i look through the warden eye, not the player eye if you know what i mean

Kiki wrote...

In Ostagar, when PC meets Alistair, she's not a Warden yet. It's logical that they don't tell her the secrets. Duncan would tell her later - nobody intended to keep her in dark. Including Alistair.


she will become a Grey Warden or dead, and there is no escape. Sharing some secret is a no harm done...

Kiki wrote...
But you contradict yourself. You say that he keeps secrets from PC - and then you say that he gives her answers if she asks. Which one is it, then? Because if he was 'keeping secrets' from her, he would not answer those questions. In normal life, she would tell him 'Duncan didn't have time to tell me anything, so you tell me all you know' and he would. In game, they broke it into several conversations, but the result is the same - the moment she asks, he tells her.


The problem is not that he tell her or not tell her but how the developer creating the environment. There is no need for such conversation. It spoil everything, for me...after building up romance and feel good being a Grey warden, it just crashed to the ground. After the conversation inwhich i choose "Duncan get what he deserved", i feel like want to stop playing...i feel, what is this? just want to make the player angry or what? I don't see the point.

Kiki wrote...
It was in fact a very clever thing from Bioware to do. They could leave it without way out and one of them would have to die. Such things can happen in real life as well, you know - especially during the war. They gave the player the chance, but it was not cheap. PC must make an important and difficult decision - die, let the one she loves die, or let him have a baby with another woman - the baby that could possibly become threat in future.


Well, it is not a real life, it is RPG fantasy game, come on....even in realistic war movies we can see "and then, they both live happily ever after...". And actually the whole plot is nonsense IF the female PC have romanced Alistair, clearly the developer didn't look from a woman perspective...it is a neutral plot.

Kiki wrote...
What you're complaining about most are decisions that the player must make. If that sucks for you, then you're clearly not the target group for which Bioware intended this game. There are many other great games out there that would suit you more.


Did Bioware ever wrote in anywhere "this game is for certain type of group players who are blah blah blah, so if you are not this type of group players, don't buy this product"?

And i am a hard core PC game players, i play a lot of games since Doom 1 and Diablo 1 age....

Kiki wrote...
As you said - why do you keep playing this game all this time? It's pointless.

Unless there is, despite everything you said, something you really like about the DA.


of course there is something i like in this game and that is why i keep playing it, complaining about something doesn't mean i hate the whole...it just a critic...

Modifié par Nizaris1, 27 novembre 2011 - 06:20 .


#60
Klidi

Klidi
  • Members
  • 790 messages
Um... it's Klidi. Not Kiki. ;)

Nizaris1 wrote...
well, i look through the warden eye, not the player eye if you know what i mean


Now I don't get it any more. Didn't you say you identify yourself with your characters? Wasn't that the main reason you disliked the Dark Ritual?

Nizaris1 wrote...
she will become a Grey Warden or dead, and there is no escape. Sharing some secret is a no harm done...


Have you never watched the movies where the villain captured the hero and revealed his deadly plan to destroy the world - and then the hero escaped in the last minute and used the knowledge against him?
I for one am very glad Grey Wardens (and Bioware) are more intelligent than those stupid villains.

Nizaris1 wrote...
The problem is not that he tell her or not tell her but how the developer creating the environment. There is no need for such conversation. It spoil everything, for me...after building up romance and feel good being a Grey warden, it just crashed to the ground. After the conversation inwhich i choose "Duncan get what he deserved", i feel like want to stop playing...i feel, what is this? just want to make the player angry or what? I don't see the point..


You mean you would actually prefer not to know it, becuase it's unpleasant?

Nizaris1 wrote...
Well, it is not a real life, it is RPG fantasy game, come on....even in realistic war movies we can see "and then, they both live happily ever after...". And actually the whole plot is nonsense IF the female PC have romanced Alistair, clearly the developer didn't look from a woman perspective...it is a neutral plot.


In some movies, yes. In some movies, no. Just because you prefer the ones with the happyending doesn't mean the others 'suck'. And vice versa.
I don't think it's nonsense from a woman perspective - as others already said, in case where life depends on it, to have a sex with another partner is not that big issue. The demon baby is another thing, but that's something also male Wardens have to consider.

Nizaris1 wrote...
Did Bioware ever wrote in anywhere "this game is for certain type of group players who are blah blah blah, so if you are not this type of group players, don't buy this product"?

And i am a hard core PC game players, i play a lot of games since Doom 1 and Diablo 1 age....

Bioware warned that it contains mature themes. That means more than just sex and blood, you know.
But yes, if you bought it without reading single review or watching the trailer, you coudln't know what you were in for.
Doom is not RPG, and Diablo 1 is interesting, but typical dungeon crawl. DA is based on these difficult decisions, that will have impact on the future of the whole country.

#61
maxernst

maxernst
  • Members
  • 2 196 messages

tmp7704 wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

Still even the first time around gaming DA:O without knowing about him being a Squaddie, I haven't killed him right then, but heard his reasons first. As he offered then his services, to help to fight the Blight, I took a moment to wage the option or to kill him. Seeing that there would be one blade more between me (my Warden) and death I spared him. It was a more pragmatic decision, but I never regretted it.

See, but that hinges on believing a paid assassin is telling you honest truth he intends to actually become your faithful guardian, instead of it just being a plain lie to get out of the sticky situation (at best, at worst it's getting a knife stab in the back at first opportunity) ... like a normal person in his spot would. I could already see Morrigan rolling her eyes up to here if i went with that Image IPB


I'm with you tmp7704.  I didn't murder-knife Zev with my canon warden, but I felt it was about the only significant decision in the entire game that I metagamed.  In my fanfic, he's even a little unsure why he did it in retrospect, perhaps swayed by the story of being sold into slavery.  But honestly, it's a risky move and my Warden's not a risk-taker by nature (he kills Loghain for precisely that reason). 

Interestingly, it's one of the few decisions that both Morrigan and Alistair seem to disagree with.  Morrigan says nothing at the time, but does ask him later what's going to stop him from poisoning his target now.  And, of course, he can turn on you.

Modifié par maxernst, 27 novembre 2011 - 07:37 .


#62
Klidi

Klidi
  • Members
  • 790 messages
Heh. In my story, Zev actually does sneak into the Warden's tent during the first night to finish his job. It's because he's so bewildered that the Warden let him live that he decides not to.
Of course he then finds out that the Warden expected it and was ready in case Zev would try to killl him, that the whole situation was arranged as a sort of test.
Airam might be naive, but royally stupid he is not. :lol:

#63
Merilsell

Merilsell
  • Members
  • 2 927 messages
My Dalish was rather pragmatic with her decision to let Zevran live and is very much unimpressed by the the possibility of fulfilling his contract later on:

"I'm of a curious mind, perhaps. I tried to kill you, after all. There was no reason to trust me."

"And there is still none." Her gaze on him was hard, almost a glare. "But you know about the Crows and their patterns of action. Also, you are capable at fighting and I need capable people. There are a lot of darkspawn to kill, after all. If there is a chance of one or two blades between them and myself, I don't say no to it."

He laughed, somewhat impressed. "A most practicable way of thinking. Witty, too. So you are not afraid I will fulfill the contract later?" The elf pointed at his still-bruised face. "Your fellow Warden very much is, as my poor, abused, handsome face shows."

She twirled the dagger in her hand. "Afraid?" Lenya scoffed. "If you wanted to kill me you would have had much opportunity while I was out cold due to the poison." She shrugged. "I see you have chosen not to."

"True. While your companions are wary of me and refuse to even talk with me, they aren't wary enough. I've been here in your tent for some time now and still no one has even bothered to check on me... or you, for that matter."

Lenya smirked as she shrugged, unfazed by his implication. "Not needed. You are not armed, as I can see, and well, you see the hound there sleeping at my side, I take it?" Arai heaved his head, yawning. "One wave of my hand and he'll tear your throat out, while I whistle a happy song."


Then again, it is Lenya. So I'm not surprised. :lol:

#64
TheButterflyEffect

TheButterflyEffect
  • Members
  • 1 407 messages
Well written maybe, fashioned to be a complete and utterly unlikeable loser. Don't want to see another character like that ever again, not only was the endgame a piece of crap because it was bugged as hell, but it was also lazily written. Everything was OK up til that point, then BAM. It all goes straight down toilet. Seriously, the crappy "Thanks for the sex and bye-bye (female dog)!" speech was just inexcusably crap.

I'm especially disgusted by what happens in the endgame. With almost everyone. Like geez, it was common knowledge my male Cousland was 100% gay, and yet I have this extremely creepy chick straight up coming onto me. WTF ewwwwwwwww. I vomited on my keyboard a little and I didn't appreciate having to clean it. Don't do that again.

But that's not nearly as off putting as homosexuality being allowed in DA but not ME. Apparently it's okay to be gay in medieval times but not in the future. Wait, the hell? Ugh, whatever.

And if the neutered status doesn't matter then why the hell does it get used an excuse for the ever miserable, cursed protagonist to get their ass kicked to the curb?

Gee, thanks.

Modifié par TheButterflyEffect, 28 novembre 2011 - 12:41 .


#65
TheButterflyEffect

TheButterflyEffect
  • Members
  • 1 407 messages

maxernst wrote...

I find it amusing that you're so outraged that sterility is a big issue for Alistair when it's only an issue when he's made king, and the reasons why being able to have children is important for a king should be fairly obvious. Look up the War of the Roses for just one example of the problems that occur when kings don't have clear heirs. He's just doing his best to be a good king after you force him onto the throne.

And he doesn't go "gladly" to Morrigan. He goes to Morrigan for you, just like he became king for you, and will gladly go to his death for you.


Yeah but will never EVER touch you again. Or talk to you. Ever. What a nutjob.

And since when do heirs need to be biological? Many in the past have been adopted, or have been nephews or whatnot. In fact, back in the day the best way to secure the throne was with your sister's kid. Why not just find a smart kid, adopt them, and lie about their parentage? Easy. That way you're also more likely getting a more competent heir, which is what this craphole country needs.

Even if he found some lucky duck woman who's life hasn't been screwed beyond repair, who's to say he'd have any living kids anyway? Back then most of them would end up buried side by side in the back yard. Actually, because it's this loser, I find such misfortune highly amusing. I shudder with glee.

#66
TheButterflyEffect

TheButterflyEffect
  • Members
  • 1 407 messages

ejoslin wrote...

If I were faced with the prospect of almost certain death for my husband or me which could likely be averted by him making a baby with someone else, friend or not, it would not be a difficult decision at all. I would not only push him through the bedroom door, I'd also send him in with a bottle of wine.

I would have zero issue with the sex. The making of an old god baby, however, is the part that would give me pause. I cannot for the life of me grok why women think that having their man have sex with someone else to literally save his life is an issue.


Wow, that literally just made bile rise into my throat. Sickening.

Actually, pretty much that entire thing was disgusting beyond belief and I don't want that in another video game ever. My god I never thought I could find the idea of sex between to members of the opposite sex so revolting. Disgusting, utterly disgusting.

#67
TheButterflyEffect

TheButterflyEffect
  • Members
  • 1 407 messages

Klidi wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

No, and i see no point in romancing a bisexual gigolo and an assasin who was failed to kill the Warden. In most of my playthrough, i just kill him with the magical knife.


If you never gave him a chance, then you should not judge him. He's so much more than 'bisexual gigolo'. Even if you don't romance him, he can be a great friend, willing to die for you.

Nizaris1 wrote...
Well, in Ostagar, after the PC meet him, there is an opportunity to ask questions. None of the questions are about what happen after being a Grey Warden. It is all a secret. Even the joining is a secret. Then, after the joining Duncan said everything will be made clear in few month. Meaning Duncan maybe will tell the PC about Grey Warden are short lived, and dead if killing the Archdemon. But he died before telling the PC all that.


In Ostagar, when PC meets Alistair, she's not a Warden yet. It's logical that they don't tell her the secrets. Duncan would tell her later - nobody intended to keep her in dark. Including Alistair.

Nizaris1 wrote....
While Alistair, knowing that the PC is just a very junior member of the order, left everything to her, and then keeping all the secrets from the PC, keeping all the bad news, and then after all the wonderful things the PC going through as a Grey Warden and romancing him, he just just giving the PC bad news after the PC ask about the Grey Warden.....


Yes, Alistair leaves everything to the PC. He admits that he prefers to be led. While I agree it's unfrair - and it is on of the reasons why I can't romance him - I can understand that he doesn't feel as a leader. Through all he previous life, he was raised not to lead, so he wouldn't be potential rival for Cailan. I in fact liked that it takes a year before Alistair accepts that he could be a king.

But you contradict yourself. You say that he keeps secrets from PC - and then you say that he gives her answers if she asks. Which one is it, then? Because if he was 'keeping secrets' from her, he would not answer those questions. In normal life, she would tell him 'Duncan didn't have time to tell me anything, so you tell me all you know' and he would. In game, they broke it into several conversations, but the result is the same - the moment she asks, he tells her. 

Perhaps he could tell her by himself, but to think about that would actually require some leader skills. Which he doesn't have.

Nizaris1 wrote..
Another thing is, if there is no chance of two Grey Warden have children and it is a big issue in the end, why Alistair keep on romancing the PC all the time? he just can stop any relation attempts by the PC saying two Grey Warden will not have children and short lived.



The PC knows that they have only 30 years pretty early. Not from the very beginning, no, but quite soon. If it's an issue for her, she can break romance with Alistair. Or not start it at all.
That the two Grey Wardens can't have children is an issue only if Alistair becomes a king. Which he doesn't want and the PC, together with Eamon, force him to do it.
If it was up to him, he would remain a Warden. Let him stay the Warden and childen are not an issue at all. As far as I remember, it's not even mentioned... but Alistair fans would know more about that.

Nizaris1 wrote..
About Dark Ritual, i don't want anyone to die for me especially the one i love, that is in the reality, so it goes in the fantasy, the game i play for hours, building romance and on and on, suddenly the plot demand him to have baby with other woman in order for the PC and him to live or else one of them die...i say.."what is this?"



It was in fact a very clever thing from Bioware to do. They could leave it without way out and one of them would have to die. Such things can happen in real life as well, you know - especially during the war. They gave the player the chance, but it was not cheap. PC must make an important and difficult decision - die, let the one she loves die, or let him have a baby with another woman - the baby that could possibly become threat in future.

Yes, it's difficult. Why should it be easy? Thanks the Maker and Andraste it is not! It would ruin the game completely, if there was an easy way to save it all, without any consequences.

Nizaris1 wrote..
You see, i always imagine the character in any RPG is my self in the fantasy world, now not only my Avatar is tainted, short lived, being cheated, infertile and then doing the most imposible desicion by any woman, letting my boyfriend to have sex to produce a baby with my close friend because the plot demand it. As a player, i feel it is all suck...not to metion other things in the game such as bugs and imbalanceness...



Bugs and imbalancess are another thing.

What you're complaining about most are decisions that the player must make. If that sucks for you, then you're clearly not the target group for which Bioware intended this game. There are many other great games out there that would suit you more.

As you said - why do you keep playing this game all this time? It's pointless.

Unless there is, despite everything you said, something you really like about the DA.


Lies. The Wardens are nothing but traitors who cheat you and lie to you and deceive you incessantly. They deceive you all throughout Origins and continue to do so in Awakening. None of your efforts, your forced sacrifices mean squat to them. Hell, here in Awakening they've even left you all alone, for a second time, to contend with the cheesy demon invasion thing that was cooked up as an excuse plot for this game. The whole story and concept around Drakespawn is so stupid. Even the name is extremely stupid. All they send you are a bunch of cheap little recruits clad in crap armor who wither and die at the drop of a hat before the game even begins. And then you're totally and completely alone. Good god, I'm not answering to these insufferable morons anymore.

And let's drop the BS about the DR. I don't care who they make do it - the whiny little blonde kid, the hardass old Braveheart ripoff, or the PC, it was still an utterly horrendous idea and it's so sickening and vile it's unreal.

They're leading us on a stupid string and we're never, ever going to find out what comes of that stupid crap plot anyway. Just like how they never, ever updated the damn toolcrap for DA2 in spite of their promises. Which were obviously taraf (what you call an "empty promise" in Iran).

#68
tklivory

tklivory
  • Members
  • 1 916 messages

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Lies. The Wardens are nothing but traitors who cheat you and lie to you and deceive you incessantly. They deceive you all throughout Origins and continue to do so in Awakening. None of your efforts, your forced sacrifices mean squat to them. Hell, here in Awakening they've even left you all alone, for a second time, to contend with the cheesy demon invasion thing that was cooked up as an excuse plot for this game. The whole story and concept around Drakespawn is so stupid. Even the name is extremely stupid. All they send you are a bunch of cheap little recruits clad in crap armor who wither and die at the drop of a hat before the game even begins. And then you're totally and completely alone. Good god, I'm not answering to these insufferable morons anymore.

And let's drop the BS about the DR. I don't care who they make do it - the whiny little blonde kid, the hardass old Braveheart ripoff, or the PC, it was still an utterly horrendous idea and it's so sickening and vile it's unreal.

They're leading us on a stupid string and we're never, ever going to find out what comes of that stupid crap plot anyway. Just like how they never, ever updated the damn toolcrap for DA2 in spite of their promises. Which were obviously taraf (what you call an "empty promise" in Iran).


Hmmm... I think I will let my Warden Dailana Cousland answer this...

*Ahem*

Um, like, it is so totally short-sighted to try to tell other people, like, how they should like stories or to, like, say that, like, your opinion is, like, the end-all-and-be-all of, like, good taste and totally the way we should all, like, agree with.  I mean, bee tee em (dude, that's like 'by the Maker' because, like, there's no OMG in Thedas)  It is also, like, such a bogus thing to try to say that "Whoa, man, I don't like the story, so, like, that must totally mean that it's, like, totally stupid and grody and dumb."  I mean, duh!  Of course if you, like,don't like it, then, um, just say you didn't like the story and then, um, let it stand like that, ya know?  But, like, going around and being like, "No way!" and then they are all like "Way!" and then you are like "No way!" and then they are like "Way!" - well, it, like, you know, just comes off as totally bogus and, like, feeding those totally grody things that like to, you know, eat those poor little billy goats.

Um, so, like, where was I?

Um, yeah, like the whole DR business?  Yeah, so, like, it is totally not-nice and soooo grody (I mean, sleep? with Morrigan?  When they could have me?  Yeah, gag me with a spoon, that is so bogus to the max!)  On the other hand, if you don't, you, like, die, and that is like, barf me out, too.  Huh, you'd almost think, like, the writers were trying to, like, create conflict and, like, write some moral decisions into a pragmatist philosophical bent that was being imposed through the very valid structure of having to choose between two wrongs that would never make a right.  Oh, and, like, maybe whether or not, like, something has a happy ending or not shouldn't, like, be the only criterion for judging good writing or storytelling.

Um, fluffy kittens and happiness?

Duh!  Whatever.

Modifié par tklivory, 28 novembre 2011 - 03:24 .


#69
Guest_greengoron89_*

Guest_greengoron89_*
  • Guests
Wow, this thread is still going? I figured people would've gotten tired of wading through the OP's neurotic ramblings by now.

#70
Merilsell

Merilsell
  • Members
  • 2 927 messages

tklivory wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Lies. The Wardens are nothing but traitors who cheat you and lie to you and deceive you incessantly. They deceive you all throughout Origins and continue to do so in Awakening. None of your efforts, your forced sacrifices mean squat to them. Hell, here in Awakening they've even left you all alone, for a second time, to contend with the cheesy demon invasion thing that was cooked up as an excuse plot for this game. The whole story and concept around Drakespawn is so stupid. Even the name is extremely stupid. All they send you are a bunch of cheap little recruits clad in crap armor who wither and die at the drop of a hat before the game even begins. And then you're totally and completely alone. Good god, I'm not answering to these insufferable morons anymore.

And let's drop the BS about the DR. I don't care who they make do it - the whiny little blonde kid, the hardass old Braveheart ripoff, or the PC, it was still an utterly horrendous idea and it's so sickening and vile it's unreal.

They're leading us on a stupid string and we're never, ever going to find out what comes of that stupid crap plot anyway. Just like how they never, ever updated the damn toolcrap for DA2 in spite of their promises. Which were obviously taraf (what you call an "empty promise" in Iran).


Hmmm... I think I will let my Warden Dailana Cousland answer this...

*Ahem*

Um, like, it is so totally short-sighted to try to tell other people, like, how they should like stories or to, like, say that, like, your opinion is, like, the end-all-and-be-all of, like, good taste and totally the way we should all, like, agree with.  I mean, bee tee em (dude, that's like 'by the Maker' because, like, there's no OMG in Thedas)  It is also, like, such a bogus thing to try to say that "Whoa, man, I don't like the story, so, like, that must totally mean that it's, like, totally stupid and grody and dumb."  I mean, duh!  Of course if you, like,don't like it, then, um, just say you didn't like the story and then, um, let it stand like that, ya know?  But, like, going around and being like, "No way!" and then they are all like "Way!" and then you are like "No way!" and then they are like "Way!" - well, it, like, you know, just comes off as totally bogus and, like, feeding those totally grody things that like to, you know, eat those poor little billy goats.

Um, so, like, where was I?

Um, yeah, like the whole DR business?  Yeah, so, like, it is totally not-nice and soooo grody (I mean, sleep? with Morrigan?  When they could have me?  Yeah, gag me with a spoon, that is so bogus to the max!)  On the other hand, if you don't, you, like, die, and that is like, barf me out, too.  Huh, you'd almost think, like, the writers were trying to, like, create conflict and, like, write some moral decisions into a pragmatist philosophical bent that was being imposed through the very valid structure of having to choose between two wrongs that would never make a right.  Oh, and, like, maybe whether or not, like, something has a happy ending or not shouldn't, like, be the only criterion for judging good writing or storytelling.

Um, fluffy kittens and happiness?

Duh!  Whatever.


Image IPB

I love Delilah. :lol: You should totally, like, publish her stories, like, on FFN, you know? There is sadly a lack of  Cousland parodies.

#71
Guest_Nizaris1_*

Guest_Nizaris1_*
  • Guests

Klidi wrote...

Um... it's Klidi. Not Kiki. ;)


Oh sorry, lols, the font is too small


Klidi wrote...
Now I don't get it any more. Didn't you say you identify yourself with your characters? Wasn't that the main reason you disliked the Dark Ritual?


Yes, that is what i mean "looking through the eyes of the Warden", meaning the Warden is my Avatar. In that situation, my judgement is based on that situation, not based on "i want to keep him because....", predetermined. Of course when i call him "bisexual gigolo" i already who he is. 

Just after the assasination attempt, it is logical for me to kill him after interrogation...or maybe torture him just for fun lol, but there is no option for that...

Kildi wrote...
Have you never watched the movies where the villain captured the hero and revealed his deadly plan to destroy the world - and then the hero escaped in the last minute and used the knowledge against him?
I for one am very glad Grey Wardens (and Bioware) are more intelligent than those stupid villains.


Is the Grey Warden the villain in the game? No, you are completely out of the point. You see, either the PC is willingly or forced to join, there is no escape for her. And she maybe survive the Joining or dead (of course she survive), so just make Alistair can be persuaded to tell everything, it is a no harm done, we will play the game to the end in anyway.


Klidi wrote...
You mean you would actually prefer not to know it, becuase it's unpleasant?


No, what i mean is, the developer don't need to make the player ****** off. That is not good, the player may go ranting in the web and forum telling how bad the game is, and it is not a good advertisement for the developer.


Klidi wrote...
In some movies, yes. In some movies, no. Just because you prefer the ones with the happyending doesn't mean the others 'suck'. And vice versa.
I don't think it's nonsense from a woman perspective - as others already said, in case where life depends on it, to have a sex with another partner is not that big issue. The demon baby is another thing, but that's something also male Wardens have to consider.


It is nonsense, i will never let my boyfriend to have sex and making baby with other woman, no matter what the reason is. So, it will lead to one outcome in the game, someone will die....that is what suck about it.

After she going through, logically, it will go that ending. Of course DAO fans have play this game over and over and now all the endings, but for a new player, don't lie to me saying  there is no female player who get mad at the first time

For male character it is a fine plot...just bang everyone, it is a no big deal...right? That is what men do...don't lie to me, even if you guys have a wife, you guys still consider to bang other woman...

Klidi wrote...
Doom is not RPG, and Diablo 1 is interesting, but typical dungeon crawl. DA is based on these difficult decisions, that will have impact on the future of the whole country.



Of course...what i mean is, i play a lot of games, not only RPG. I play PC games since Doom and Diablo era...you want me to list all the games i play? There will be lots of it...

Modifié par Nizaris1, 28 novembre 2011 - 04:21 .


#72
tklivory

tklivory
  • Members
  • 1 916 messages

Nizaris1 wrote...

Yes, that is what i mean "looking through the eyes of the Warden", meaning the Warden is my Avatar. In that situation, my judgement is based on that situation, not based on "i want to keep him because....", predetermined. Of course when i call him "bisexual gigolo" i already who he is. 

Just after the assasination attempt, it is logical for me to kill him after interrogation...or maybe torture him just for fun lol, but there is no option for that...


Really?  Really?  Torture him just for fun?  You call a man who is cheerfully at peace with his own sexuality and doesn't judge anyone else a 'bisexual gigolo' (which he, by the actual definition of the word gigolo, is NOT in any way shape or form) and then turn around and say that there should be an option to 'torture him just for fun'?

So, your Warden, a person who has never in any way, shape or form (with the possible exception of the Dwarf Commoner) tortured, killed, or otherwise done any injury to anyone else for pay, would cheerfully kill, torture, or otherwise do injury to someone who was trying to kill you because that is, in fact, his job that someone else hired him to do, and you somehow try to make it sound justified?  Or the preferred method of how to deal with Zevran?

Loghain's head must have cheerfully rolled in your game.

That is...  I have no words.

Like, so uncool and grody to the max.

Is the Grey Warden the villain in the game? No, you are completely out of the point. You see, either the PC is willingly or forced to join, there is no escape for her. And she maybe survive the Joining or dead (of course she survive), so just make Alistair can be persuaded to tell everything, it is a no harm done, we will play the game to the end in anyway.


Based on your previous point, I am frankly scared how you would *persuade* Alistair to tell you everything right away.  A little torture perhaps?

The Grey Warden is neither the hero or the villain, merely the protagonist, and a blank slate protagonist at that.  Some things can be plotted, other things must be introduced via Game Mechanics.  In this case, the reveal of the Grey Wardens 'issues' were mostly introduced via Game Mechanics.  Riordan's 'reveal' of how to defeat the Archdemon was far worse than Alistair withholding information.  Or, for that matter, Morrigan withholding information.

No, what i mean is, the developer don't need to make the player ****** off. That is not good, the player may go ranting in the web and forum telling how bad the game is, and it is not a good advertisement for the developer.


Yeah, Maker forbid that a developer actually make people think, or not have a boring, pablum game that people will play halfway through and give up because it is boring, or...

Moving on.

It is nonsense, i will never let my boyfriend to have sex and making baby with other woman, no matter what the reason is. So, it will lead to one outcome in the game, someone will die....that is what suck about it.

After she going through, logically, it will go that ending. Of course DAO fans have paly this game over and over and now all the endings, but for a new player, don't lie to me saying  there is no female who get mad at the first time

For male character it is a fine plot...just bang everyone, it is a no big deal...right? That is what men do...don't lie to me, even if you guys have a wife, you guys still consider to bang other woman...


I did not get mad the first time.  I was fascinated by the turn of events.  My actual Warden got a bit squicked, but she was BFF with Morrigan and would rather have Alistair make a baby than have either of them die.  After all, one night of unwilling hedonism and 30 years vs purity/loyalty and death?  Hell, yes, I'd choose the 30 years together.

Sex is physical, and in the end means nothing if the heart is not involved.  And if you think that no male had any moral qualms when dealing with the DR dilemma, you must not know very many mature men...

Modifié par tklivory, 28 novembre 2011 - 04:35 .


#73
tmp7704

tmp7704
  • Members
  • 11 156 messages

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Yeah but will never EVER touch you again. Or talk to you. Ever. What a nutjob.

He talks with you normally for the remainder of the game.

I'd like to put it as gently as possible, but this sort of blind exaggeration that ignores plain facts... it's a way of argument that doesn't make Alistair appear like a nutjob. I'm sorry.

#74
Guest_Nizaris1_*

Guest_Nizaris1_*
  • Guests
@tklivory

why so serious? I mention it as a joke...but clearly, you don't get my joke...i said MAYBE...

But if really ever there is an option to torture that bisexual gigolo assassin, don't tell me no one will ever try it...

Modifié par Nizaris1, 28 novembre 2011 - 04:50 .


#75
RagingCyclone

RagingCyclone
  • Members
  • 1 990 messages

Nizaris1 wrote...

Klidi wrote...
In some movies, yes. In some movies, no. Just because you prefer the ones with the happyending doesn't mean the others 'suck'. And vice versa.
I don't think it's nonsense from a woman perspective - as others already said, in case where life depends on it, to have a sex with another partner is not that big issue. The demon baby is another thing, but that's something also male Wardens have to consider.


It is nonsense, i will never let my boyfriend to have sex and making baby with other woman, no matter what the reason is. So, it will lead to one outcome in the game, someone will die....that is what suck about it.

After she going through, logically, it will go that ending. Of course DAO fans have play this game over and over and now all the endings, but for a new player, don't lie to me saying  there is no female player who get mad at the first time

For male character it is a fine plot...just bang everyone, it is a no big deal...right? That is what men do...don't lie to me, even if you guys have a wife, you guys still consider to bang other woman...


Um...just...not sure what to say on this one except...utterly, completely, and totally WRONG!!! Even my warden convinces Alistair to perform the DR because he cannot cheat on Leliana. So that stereotypical statement...yeah...all kinds of wrong there. <_<