146 réponses à ce sujet

[Yezdigerd]

Obviously the Council and foremost the Asari is a boon, for all those who don't want a a galaxy "where might makes right". Without it, humans would be processed as food or slave labor by the Rachni, Krogans or Turians by now.
The Asaris' penchant for peace and compromise instead of using their superior resources to subjugate the lesser races, is the cornerstone of galactic stability and I think it would be unwise to take them from the helm.
Humanity with it's bloody history of exploatation at every opportunity should really have limited part in any policy making.

[Cpt-Brit]

Yezdigerd wrote...

Obviously the Council and foremost the Asari is a boon, for all those who don't want a a galaxy "where might makes right". Without it, humans would be processed as food or slave labor by the Rachni, Krogans or Turians by now.
The Asaris' penchant for peace and compromise instead of using their superior resources to subjugate the lesser races, is the cornerstone of galactic stability and I think it would be unwise to take them from the helm.
Humanity with it's bloody history of exploatation at every opportunity should really have limited part in any policy making.

And the Turians who basically want to colonise the galaxy (But they understand they would lose more than gain if they tried) should have a greater say in it than Humans?

Also the Asari shouldn't be allowed majority control they may not be as warlike as Humans or Turians but they could just commit to the Gentle Genoside of the other races... There is a reason why the Asari are the largest race in the galaxy.

[armass]

I think a galactic federation would be the best one.

[Bleachrude]

Meh I don't really like the Council. They have their uses I suppose but if I can take it down and looks like a good guy I might do. Maybe a "WORKING" version of the European Union where everyone has a say just with less meddling in Nations affairs.

Again...other than the AI restriction, how does the Council meddle in the various races internal affair? I keep seeing this, but other than AI (and maybe Prothean tech), the Council pretty much ignores what the various goverments do...

[wright1978]

Cpt-Brit wrote...

Meh I don't really like the Council. They have their uses I suppose but if I can take it down and looks like a good guy I might do. Maybe a "WORKING" version of the European Union where everyone has a say just with less meddling in Nations affairs.

Current galactic government in ME seems exactly like the EU. The big (influential) countries decide the big things & the rest follow.

[Wereparrot]

Every species governs itself and cooperates with the governments of other species according to it's own interests without paying lip service to a Citadel-based council. The idea that any given government is not the highest authority in it's own realm (or in this case species) is anathema to me. Obviously there would need to be a galactic law of sorts and various regulations but these should be determined by individual governments working together and certainly not the EU-like Council. The Citadel should govern itself and have no bearing on any other government, because the actions of other governments do not concern it unless the Citadel government is compelled to take action against an offending government to protect it's own interests. Citadel-based species are subjects of their home planet/nation but must also obey Citadel regulations while they are on the Citadel, as on Earth a foreign national is still a subject of his own country but must still obey the law of the harbouring nation.

Someone said earlier that representation should be by planet and not by species. The reason why planet and species are similar in this case lies in the fact that humans cannot reproduce after their own kind with an alien. The man of Indian descent may consider himself to be English because he has English blood on his mother's side, but the turian cannot claim to be English for the same reason because humans and turians cannot reproduce. He may claim to be English through residence or place of birth, but, being surrounded by billions of humans, I'm not sure he would. Anyway, being born in England wouldn't neccessarily make him English; he is just an English-born turian from whichever nation on the turian home world he comes from.

Modifié par Wereparrot, 24 novembre 2011 - 12:39 .

[bleetman]

The Council can, as far as I'm concerned, go suck a nut. Their apparent maintenance of peace across the galaxy - or, at least, the parts that care to listen to them - is seemingly based on just ignoring problems until they go away on their own. Blasting an attempted Quarian settlement from orbit didn't earn them any points in my book either.

Y'know, I have to wonder if the Quarians used to be part of the Council too. Not a Council race, obviously, but part of council space. No doubt they had an amazing reason for sitting on their hands that time, too.

Modifié par bleetman, 24 novembre 2011 - 12:44 .

[General User]

In government, as in most things, both the best and the worst ideas come from humans. In the case of the Citadel Council, I think they could really benefit from being organized to being something more along the lines of the United Nations on Earth.

Not only should it be an organization limited in both scope and capacity. But you would have a "Security Council" of the Great Powers (Systems Alliance, Turian Hierarchy, Salarian Union, UAR) being balanced out by a "General Assembly" which would be seated representatives from star-nations like Illium, Horizon, Garvug, Anhur, etc.

===
BTW, does anyone know if Illium is a "multi-system star-nation" or not?  I mean does the Illium government control the other little star systems in their local cluster?

Modifié par General User, 24 novembre 2011 - 12:57 .

[Dean_the_Young]

It makes commerce cheaper and convenient.

[CroGamer002]

General User wrote...

BTW, does anyone know if Illium is a "multi-system star-nation" or not?  I mean does the Illium government control the other little star systems in their local cluster?

I think it's just for Illium.

[General User]

At least as far as how to choose representatives goes, I think the Ambassadorial system (similar to what exists now) is best.

I say if to choose their representative, an asari republic wants to hold an election, and a human nation wants to hold a confirmation hearing, and a krogan clan want to hold a tournament, so be it all.

Who are we to judge how another nation, let alone species, goes about choosing who will represent them?

[Dean_the_Young]

General User wrote...

In government, as in most things, both the best and the worst ideas come from humans. In the case of the Citadel Council, I think they could really benefit from being organized to being something more along the lines of the United Nations on Earth.

Not only should it be an organization limited in both scope and capacity. But you would have a "Security Council" of the Great Powers (Systems Alliance, Turian Hierarchy, Salarian Union, UAR) being balanced out by a "General Assembly" which would be seated representatives from star-nations like Illium, Horizon, Garvug, Anhur, etc.

===
BTW, does anyone know if Illium is a "multi-system star-nation" or not?  I mean does the Illium government control the other little star systems in their local cluster?

I don't think it's ever said.


I think the hardest aspect of your 'by planet/system' scenario is establishing the minimum bar for qualification. Lord Darius and his pisshole lava pit, after all, need not apply.  And with billions of star systems, that's going to be a big audience chamber. Obviously, not every system need apply.


But the 'worst' part of it is that it does become a population growth game, for trying to settle more colonies with more people faster than others. That makes reasonable sense within a single species, in which everyone is on a different playing field, but the multi-species galaxy would just become dominated by 'fast growing' species, while slow-growing species would be slowed down.


A readily available solution to that, however, is already available. I wonder how long it would be until, by trickery or force of politics or just force itself, the galaxy was 'evened out' by bringing everyone to the same standard? The low standard?

The Asari standard, of course. We can't let those fair ladies who might reach a family of four over a thousand years be overwhelmed by the rest of the galaxy.


Universal genophage system. All species get the genophage to bring them in line with the Asari baseline.

Council species, as the military-fighting guardians of the galaxy, of course need a little extra growth as compensation for carrying out those duties and to cover the loses. Just an extra percent or three.

[Shermos]

Not to rip off Star Trek too much, but I think a Galactic federation with a unified military is the way to go. Why should the Asari and Turians be (legally) allowed to build the most dreadnaughts, just because they and the Salarians found the Citadel first? It seems like a recipe for disaster to me, not to mention an opening for preferential treatment based on race. A unified government, economy and military would solve a lot of the problems the present council has. I can't see this being a possible outcome in ME3, but it would be nice.

If I couldn't have it that way, I'd rather the Human alliance withdraw from the council and go it's own way. There'd still be the Geth to have diplomatic relations with plus a possible reconciliation with the Batarians, asuming the Reapers don't wipe them out.

[General User]

Mesina2 wrote...

General User wrote...

BTW, does anyone know if Illium is a "multi-system star-nation" or not?  I mean does the Illium government control the other little star systems in their local cluster?

I think it's just for Illium.

What about Helyme in the Zelene system?  I noticed that it was "the corporation of Illium" that are enforcing the quarantine of that world.

[Dean_the_Young]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

It makes commerce cheaper and convenient.

There's no need for anything resembling the Council to achieve that.

It kind of is. A common currency zone is only sustainable with a certain amount of common governance and regulation. Then it either breaks, or it snowballs to more.

[Dean_the_Young]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

t kind of is. A common currency zone is only sustainable with a certain amount of common governance and regulation. Then it either breaks, or it snowballs to more.

Right, but the Council goes way more into the "more" than is necessary.

It also almost certainly didn't start with it. It grew into it.

Remaking the Council system is really just rewinding the clock and changing pieces. Unless it fails, however, it will grow back because the underlying sense to strengthen it remains. The commerce needs regulatory power to be enforcable. Regulatory power needs more strength to stop cheaters. Regulator power branches into defensive powers. Defensive powers open up the need for more power and more resources. The bureacracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureacracy. In the process it serves a number of public goods that many groups appreciate, thus expanding the expectation that it continue doing so in other places as well.

[Bleachrude]

*sigh*

Again..I've asked multiple times and yet nobody has answered...

Other than AI (and maybe Prothean tech), where else does the Citadel actually intervene in the internal affairs of a government?

The biggest dick move the Council did was the quarrians and it should be noted that the quarrians apparently settled into Citadel space without even asking first

(Hell, even "ignoring the reapers" isn't a valid complaint given the last few months Cerebus daily news briefing which pretty blatantly indicates the various governments ARE gearing up for the Reapers)

The Council doesn't seem to get involved unless it's a galactic event involving multiple species.

The only reason the Volus et al are not part of the governing board is they don't provide military muscle which I honestly don't see as an unfair...

Modifié par Bleachrude, 24 novembre 2011 - 01:25 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Do read Cerberus Daily News, rude Bleach. Chop chop.



After you do, however, there is also the distinction between 'the Council' and 'Council species', which is indeed a blurry line. Did the Salarians really re-neuter a race of people who hadn't been at war with them in nearly a millenia... without Council approval or allowance? Do the Turians remain an expansionist imperialist power, conquering and assimilating minor races, simply on their own time or in the course of their involvement with the Council.


There's a great deal of overlap. 'Pure' Council authority is pretty narrow: besides those assassinations/galactic incidents/other interventions by the Spectres, the Council itself just has absolute control of C-SEC.

The Council races, however, are balls deep in furthering the Council cooperation and themselves. The Council's enforcers are the Turians. The species are the Salarians. Projects of common and even individual cause are often handled by Council races, and simply pardoned/covered by the Council. The Council's search for Saren, for example, involved Salarian STG.

So, where do you draw the line?

If you take it on the face of things and who wears the emblem, the Council is a very tiny force. And Gadaffi had no major position of power in Libya. De jure and de facto are entirely different things.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 24 novembre 2011 - 01:32 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Remaking the Council system is really just rewinding the clock and changing pieces. Unless it fails, however, it will grow back because the underlying sense to strengthen it remains.

Right, and when it happens we'll hope somebody rewinds the clock again. Though I don't think it will get that far anyway. A few centuries at the most and the galaxy will be a strange place.

Depends on the outcome of the Reaper War. The galaxy was mostly stationary since the Krogan Rebellions, and the biggest change in the last 300 was the Geth-Quarian incident.

[Bleachrude]

re: Genophage
Given that the first time it was used, it was done by the Turians who were NOT yet a sitting council member race and the fact that the Salarian STG was the inspiration for the Spectres, the salarian STG IMO is independent of the Council itself.

Why create the Spectres if the citadel council can simply use the salarians? I think the Salarians as a government personally believe that the Krogans are their responsibility since they are the reason why the krogans became a problem....

re: Turian client races
You know...as an aside..I've seen this repeated multiple times with regard to the Turians "conquering" other races..but where are people getting this from?

The only client race that I know of are the Volus and they actually petitioned the Turians to BE a client race. Read their codex and the only thing the Turians do is apply a tax and the Volus have to provide an auxillary force and that's it.

The Vol Protectorate runs itself so where did this Turians = Klingons idea come from? Or is the classic "military focus alien race must be evil bad guys conquering other races" trope that of course never gets attached to humans...

[Chewin]

An ideal from of a working political government in the galaxy would be very hard, and I'm surprised in how it actually manages to work between the three Council races. Though I partially blame BioWare for not having more info on the subject. But anyway, I'll try to share my views on how it would work.

The biggest councern in a multiracial Council government would be, well, that it is multiracial. I mean think about it, we humans exist within identity groups with shared values which define our political interactions. When values are incompatible we inevitably clash. Thus, on a large scale, difference can become dangerous. And now imagine how it would be in a government like the Council. We've seen in the Mass Effect universe that politics is mainly conducted along racial lines, which means that cultural antagonisms can lead to century long wars between large identity groups, which we've seen has happened already.

This same thing has happened in our history. The culture and identity on politics has and still is hotly contested amongst political thinkers. And this is my major councern when it would come to a multiracial government. It'd the races different culture and identity that shows it clearly. Just like the krogans and their violent nature. The same thing goes for the rachni, batarians, and vorcha. Hell, this is even seen between the council races.

And with that being said, you can at the same time see a mutual respect between the fictional races of the ME universe. Despite the racial antagonisms with humans (First Contact War), turians prove they can be quite tolerant, allowing complete religious freedom within their own species - something we cannot claim of our own kind. Likewise, the monotone elcor accommodate other cultures by clarifying their sentences, explicitly stating their intended tone. The quick thinking, fast talking, seemingly emotionless, and very short lived salarians still manage to maintain healthy relationships with most other species, despite the occasional awkward verbal exchange. In actuality, the Citadel is a remarkably cosmopolitan city run by a relatively diverse political body.

Besides the tragically violent vorcha of ME2, the game succeeds in depicting morsels of hope for mutual cooperation. Even the despotic batarian government can explain their frequent criminal behavior, freeing them of cultural stereotypes. Similarly, a freed rachni queen may help save the universe and sooth the fears her ancestors once birthed.

Though we shouldn't forget that cultural exchanges are frequent in both ME games. A paragon focused player might have released the rachni queen, a universally despised species, because of her proven sentience and ability to conduct rational thought. Similarly in ME2, a paragon may legitimately choose renegade actions in his/her interactions with krogans on Tuchanka, navigating their cultural behaviors while respecting the customs that do not needlessly destroy. Many of the recruitment missions in ME2 require similar cultural interactions. The diverse crew of the Normandy testifies to cosmopolitan virtues in the fictional universe, as well as our own.
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With all that being said, I must say that I'm really interested in how the governemt will turn out in ME3. A multiracial government could be a good option as well as bad one. I hardly think a single race should be the leading government in the ME universe, but if you had only a selected few races, it would probably turn out pretty well.