200 réponses à ce sujet

[Dubya75]

Cosmochyck wrote...

The hating of DA2 is STILL going on? Wow.

Anyway...I didn't hate it. I have no idea if it was overhyped. I just buy what I like and I enjoyed it. It was different from DA:O, but I take each game as a stand alone piece anyway, so I wasn't expecting DA:O all over again. It had some issues and parts of it felt rushed to market (which it was), but Bioware has already stated that DA3 will not be finished as quickly. They've heard everyone's complaints and issues. It's not like DA2 is the first game to ever come up short in the eyes of the critics/gamers.

No, what heppens when people hate a game is that it disappears and is forgotten.
People don't hate DA2, they love it. That's why they keep going on about it. Because of the disappointment with the way in which it was delivered....I think.
I loved the game, but I will also make fun of it when the opportunity presents itself in the hope it's failings get so engrained in the devs' minds that they would think twice before releasing anything less than AAA in the future.

[HiroVoid]

I'd say it's more people loved DAO than people loved DA2 honestly.  DA2 wouldn't be getting nearly the hate it's getting if it had been a new franchise rather than a sequel.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 28 novembre 2011 - 07:04 .

[Wozearly]

Dubya75 wrote...

No, what heppens when people hate a game is that it disappears and is forgotten.
People don't hate DA2, they love it. That's why they keep going on about it. Because of the disappointment with the way in which it was delivered....I think.
I loved the game, but I will also make fun of it when the opportunity presents itself in the hope it's failings get so engrained in the devs' minds that they would think twice before releasing anything less than AAA in the future.

Not necessarily.

I didn't love DA2, but I'm still "going on" about it because, like you, I sincerely hope that Bioware learns from its failings and releases a jaw-dropper with DA3. However, to my eyes that means having a lot more in common with DA:O, which is where the two of us may strongly disagree.

The DA franchise is amazing, and Origins was easily one of the best RPGs I've ever had the fortune to pick up and play. I raved about it to RL and online friends, many of whom picked it up, played it and raved about it themselves.

People both loved and hated DA2 - sometimes for the same reasons. It was highly divisive both as a game and because of the different direction, style and feel taken and the fan base is *still* divided on whether core elements such as a fully voiced protagonist were actually a good idea or not.

I wanted to love DA2, wanted Bioware to have taken the right decisions in deviating so far from the things that brought Origins to life, but...for me it just didn't work. The odd defining moment and sparkle of storywriting from David Gaider (et al) lifted it out of mediocrity, but in the round I feel that it fell a long way short of its predecessor.

...but knowing that Bioware is capable of producing a gem like Origins, and being a massive fan of the studio for years, I'm sticking around in the hope that DA3 turns out to be the game that DA2 should have been all along. I'm not the only DA2 detractor that feels that way, so its probably not a good idea to assume that because we've stuck around it means that, secretly, we actually really loved DA2.

[Firky]

Well, part of the pressure/expectation I, personally, put onto the DA franchise comes from the fact that Origins (although not precisely Baldur's Gate) was decently close to a traditional BioWare party-based, turn based RPG/Infinity style game in that couple of year period when there weren't many bigger budget RPGs at all. Of any description.

This year, in addition to some great RPG style Indies, including Magicka with its cleverly organic magic system, we've had Witcher 2, Diablo 3 (beta), Skyrim, Kingdoms of Amalur is on the way, Heroes VI, etc. Those are just the ones I've had time to play. Some of those games do one or more elements of the RPG brilliantly. Open world, choice consequence, whatever.

What the others don't do is ...
a) the party
that quirky BioWare story thing (not that the other big RPGs don't have good stories)

I had the opposite reaction to a lot of people about the DAII hype. When I heard all the "button=awesome" stuff and "no tactical camera, get in closer and engage with combat" thing, I expected a control system much closer to Witcher/Skyrim and was a depressed little old school gal.

But, I played DAII on nightmare, and micromanaged my party. I enjoyed the combat more than any other RPG this year, just because it still has the party. I engaged with combat and learned how it worked in a way that I didn't in Witcher 2, for example. In that game, I just wanted to try out different choices and consequences. (And avoid the dragon squishing mini games.)

It's a tricky one. But, for me, if there are other action RPGs out there, doing the single protagonist, choice/consequence, open world, isometric (diablo), interesting other stuff, then DAII not doing absolutely everything is cool. Hell, the "rough around the edges" elf townies really just focussed my attention on things like Isabela's speckly sunburned skin, and clever party banter moments as you walked around samey dungeons.

DAII didn't satisfy the explorer in me, but Skyrim did. DAII satisfied other things. I don't think the hype beforehand really accurately portrayed the game. But, I wasn't looking for the game to do everything, just the few key things I miss from the Infinity days (and I was pretty happy, in the end.) No game does everything, but if you engage with its strengths, it is a great game, nonetheless.

[Eudaemonium]

Party-based gameplay/stories has always been Bioware's 'thing' for me. I basically ended up skipping everything from BG2 to DAO (never played NWN, and barely started Jade Empire - only played ME1 after DAO). It's something that is seriously lacking in other Western RPGs (JRPGs tend to be all party, all the time, but they don't have other elements). I really *miss* parties when they aren't there in RPGs.

I need to get back to my run of BG. I was having such fun with my astoundingly evil self-serving party and reputation so low guards assault me on sight.

[Gunderic]

Owned. Maybe now the row of lay-offs wil start off.

[Gunderic]

Atakuma wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Difference being those games delivered on what they were hyping. DAII was made out to be one of the best games of the year with one of the best stories and was made out to say that choices would matter in the game.

To that, I say this:

Ha.

No it wasn't and they never said your choices would matter.

Hahahahaha

[dheer]

HiroVoid wrote...
I'd say it's more people loved DAO than people loved DA2 honestly.  DA2 wouldn't be getting nearly the hate it's getting if it had been a new franchise rather than a sequel.

Yep. It would have just been mostly ignored. There are plenty of mediocre games released that the general gaming public looks at and moves on. A sequel to a popular and awarded game is a different animal.

[Bryy_Miller]

Gunderic wrote...

Owned. Maybe now the row of lay-offs wil start off.

Yes, because people should lose their jobs over a game that ranked in the 70s and was subjectively bad. 

If there was no DA2, and EA or BW started laying off employees, you'd be up in arms.

[Gunderic]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Owned. Maybe now the row of lay-offs wil start off.

Yes, because people should lose their jobs over a game that ranked in the 70s and was subjectively bad. 

If there was no DA2, and EA or BW started laying off employees, you'd be up in arms.

That's because they'd lay off the good employees.

[Bryy_Miller]

How do you know?

And how do you know which ones are "good"?

[Atakuma]

Gunderic wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Difference being those games delivered on what they were hyping. DAII was made out to be one of the best games of the year with one of the best stories and was made out to say that choices would matter in the game.

To that, I say this:

Ha.

No it wasn't and they never said your choices would matter.

Hahahahaha

Are you 12?

[Gunderic]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

How do you know?

And how do you know which ones are "good"?

I'm hoping BioWare does, or would, based on who worked and what changed in Dragon Age 2.

[Bryy_Miller]

Gunderic wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

How do you know?

And how do you know which ones are "good"?

I'm hoping BioWare does, or would, based on who worked and what changed in Dragon Age 2.

Are you actually intending to respond to me?

[Zanallen]

Gunderic wrote...

I'm hoping BioWare does, or would, based on who worked and what changed in Dragon Age 2.

So, by and large the same people who made DA:O?

[Morroian]

Gunderic wrote...

Owned. Maybe now the row of lay-offs wil start off.

Thats pathetic.

[K_Tabris]

The hype equalled the awesomeness of the game. Yahoo is full of crap.

[arafinwe_ingalaure]

I agree with you Shav !

[FieryDove]

Gunderic wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

How do you know?

And how do you know which ones are "good"?

I'm hoping BioWare does, or would, based on who worked and what changed in Dragon Age 2.

So...because the team tried something new they are bad now? You know it's mostly the same crew as DAO right?

Just

[AlexXIV]

FieryDove wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

How do you know?

And how do you know which ones are "good"?

I'm hoping BioWare does, or would, based on who worked and what changed in Dragon Age 2.

So...because the team tried something new they are bad now? You know it's mostly the same crew as DAO right?

Just

I don't think the problem are the employees. Problem were decisions about budget and deadline. It's not a far stretch to say that, given enough time and money, more would have been possible.

[Realmzmaster]

AlexXIV wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

How do you know?

And how do you know which ones are "good"?

I'm hoping BioWare does, or would, based on who worked and what changed in Dragon Age 2.

So...because the team tried something new they are bad now? You know it's mostly the same crew as DAO right?

Just

I don't think the problem are the employees. Problem were decisions about budget and deadline. It's not a far stretch to say that, given enough time and money, more would have been possible.

The budget and the deadline from what I gathered was set by Bioware. Bioware submits a budget and timetable to EA who approve or disapprove them. It is then up to Bioware to adhere to the budget and timetable. If the design they wanted to use was to ambitious then Bioware should have delayed the project release, ask for more money or both. The problem is not the employees since the crew is almost identical.

[Realmzmaster]

Gunderic wrote...

Owned. Maybe now the row of lay-offs wil start off.

Which means EA/Bioware would layoff the entire DAO/DA2 team including the main writer David Gaider? Do people read or watch the credits. There will be no layoffs unless EA/Bioware plans on killing off the Dragon Age franchise. Even then most of the employees would be moved to other EA/Bioware projects like Star Wars: The Old Republic.

[FieryDove]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The budget and the deadline from what I gathered was set by Bioware. Bioware submits a budget and timetable to EA who approve or disapprove them. It is then up to Bioware to adhere to the budget and timetable. If the design they wanted to use was to ambitious then Bioware should have delayed the project release, ask for more money or both. The problem is not the employees since the crew is almost identical.

The timetable changed early on...very early. 2 years of dao support/dlc turned into 6 months and DA2 is coming together better/faster than expected!

When many of the interviews with non EA people stated EA wanted DA2 out asap because of the sucess of DAO it leaves one to wonder. Not that it matters...what's done is done. But if EA can do that to Bioware in the past what can be said about the future? It is iffy.

[Sylvianus]

dheer wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...
I'd say it's more people loved DAO than people loved DA2 honestly.  DA2 wouldn't be getting nearly the hate it's getting if it had been a new franchise rather than a sequel.

Yep. It would have just been mostly ignored. There are plenty of mediocre games released that the general gaming public looks at and moves on. A sequel to a popular and awarded game is a different animal.

Yep. I see also other minor reasons important.

Da2 was also the striking symbol of the new road taken by Bioware, hated by many people. M2 was seen merely as an impulse, not a large movement.

There has been a cumulative effect. This new direction began with M2, many people complained, were a little worried. But ok. That was the beginning of something not sure at that time.

Then, DA2 came out,  went even further, and even worse, with its own issues, such as hallucinating bugs before the first patch. This time it was a confirmation that bioware radically changed the way. Hence this time an explosion. And since DA2 is the better representation of what they perceive as a killer rpg, yes, I doubt the hatred will disappear before a long time for some people.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 29 novembre 2011 - 01:56 .

[Realmzmaster]

FieryDove wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The budget and the deadline from what I gathered was set by Bioware. Bioware submits a budget and timetable to EA who approve or disapprove them. It is then up to Bioware to adhere to the budget and timetable. If the design they wanted to use was to ambitious then Bioware should have delayed the project release, ask for more money or both. The problem is not the employees since the crew is almost identical.

The timetable changed early on...very early. 2 years of dao support/dlc turned into 6 months and DA2 is coming together better/faster than expected!

When many of the interviews with non EA people stated EA wanted DA2 out asap because of the sucess of DAO it leaves one to wonder. Not that it matters...what's done is done. But if EA can do that to Bioware in the past what can be said about the future? It is iffy.

How would non-EA people in Interviews know about what is going on in EA? Without insider information they can only speculate. Just like you or I do. Now they may be talking to EA/Bioware employees that wish to remain anonyomus. But then that makes the information dubious.