1287 réponses à ce sujet

[galesong1234]

For the record: Female Human Mages Can't Become Queen

Playing human female mage w/ Alistair hardened

Landsmeet 1:
PC won Landsmeet. Alistair faught Loghain in final showdown. Alistair did not give chance for Loghain to live. Alistair killed Loghain instantly. Then scene cuts to king dumping scene. Must persuade Alistair to stay on as mistress.

Landsmeet 2:
PC looses Landsmeet. Arl Eamon calls men to arms. We battle. Battle is stopped and we are told to battle it between PC/Champion and Loghain. Win showdown with Loghain. Reordan steps in to make Loghain a Grey Warden. Be firm and kill Loghain. Landsmeet asks you to make new choice who is  to be on throne. When asked hardened Alistair what he wants, he is very firm in wanting to become king.

Make decision who to pick. A persuade option comes up to choose Alistair as king and pc as queen. Chose this option, however Alistair interrupts and says human mage can't become queen as she is not a noble. Had max persuade and 31 cunning. So asked to choose another option: Anora queen only, Alistair king only, or Alistair and Anora marry and rule jointly.

Has anyone gotten anything different on this or manage to persuade to become queen playing female human mage?

Modifié par galesong1234, 11 janvier 2010 - 12:22 .

[bas273]

It's a bit odd that Loghain, a farmer, can become a general while you, a mage with an unknown origin (perhaps you are a noble!!) cannot become queen (even though you've united Ferelden and stopped the Blight).

To answer your question, no you cannot convince Alistair to rule with you if you're a female mage.

And the correct options are:

1. PC wins Landsmeet
a) PC battles Loghain.
a1. PC kills Loghain
a2. Alistair kills Loghain
a3. Loghain becomes a Grey Warden. Alistair becomes king (difficult persuasion check), is executed (if you've made Anora queen) or leaves (you can convince Anora to let him go).
Alistair battles Loghain. Loghain is killed.
c) Anyone but the PC and Alistair battle Loghain. Same options as a).

2. PC looses Landsmeet. Arl Eamon calls men to arms. Same options as 1.

Modifié par bas273, 11 janvier 2010 - 12:29 .

[Creature 1]

galesong1234 wrote...
Has anyone gotten anything different on this or manage to persuade to become queen playing female human mage?

It's impossible.  Ferelden will not tolerate mages in positions of power.  Go hang out outside the chantry in Denerim and you'll hear it--"Magic was made to serve man, and not to rule over him." 

[Whisa]

bas273 wrote...

It's a bit odd that Loghain, a farmer, can become a general while you, a mage with an unknown origin (perhaps you are a noble!!) cannot become queen (even though you've united Ferelden and stopped the Blight).

A farmer is not universally feared if not hated.
A mage is feared, hated, and seen as a sign of possible blasphemy.

Imagine an Abomination-queen/ king.  Or a blood mage queen/ king.  The reason they won't allow it is because of those situations, or the fact that your queen/ king might accidently explode himself with magical research one day, or a word spoke incorrectly.  The chance for a farmer to burst into flames while mind controlling the landsmet is much, much lower.

[galesong1234]

Dragoness75 wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...

Confronting Loghain.....Talk about Blight...or who betrayed Ferelden....after this I focused on what not to do during debate......Never bring up Cailan to die....don't talk about about making Alistair king....which I didn't even want to suggest....when you talk to anora before landsmeet don't tell her you think Loghain should die.

If all goes well Alistair will be king....then it will instantly go into the I love you but I'm king dumping scene. I picked....We don't have to grow old together....Nobody can force the king..and Perhaps you should do what pleases you for once dialogue options...Alistair will reply with Dam them all and I feel like such an idiot for even bringing it up, please forgive me...I replied with You'll have to earn it.

Oh yeah.....Loghain will not just give up you will have to fight him to the death...I sent in Alistair so there would be no way for Alistair to wed Anora....Anora won't marry her father's murderer.

I am working on a Dalish Rogue playthrough and I have already "tuffened him up". Do you still get the ending that he never leaves your side, except for the memorial if you don't have him marry Anora, he does still need to make an heir?

Does the fight with Loghain happen before or after the "dumping" scene?

If you win landsmeet:
PC/champion will battle Loghain. Dumping scene will happen immediately after Loghain is killed. You will not have choice who is to be on throne as "tuffened up" Alistair wants to become king and you can't become queen (only Female Human Nobles).

Dumping scene (happens immediately after Loghain's death) - must choose dialogue "Nobody can force a king...." and persuade dialogue "Perhaps you should do what pleases you..." Now pc can become mistress.

Final Scene: Alistair is king. He will ask you what you want. If you choose first option (to serve king), Alistair will make you his chancellor where he seeks your advice and you rule when he is away. Next, Alistair will ask you what are your plans. If you choose to be with the Grey Wardens you will get the ending of Alistair is happy to leave court to be with his love, never to be parted except when Alistair makes a small memorial for Duncan.

If you loose Landsmeet:
Loghain will have you arrested. However Eaman will call you to battle. Once Loghain and his men are defeated, battle will be stopped and you will be asked to battle Loghain one-on-one. You can battle  him yourself or choose a champion. Win showdown with Loghain. Reordan will step in and try to make Loghain a Grey Warden. Be firm and kill Loghain. You or Alistair can make final blow.

When playing a human mage (they are not nobility and it seems they can't become queen) I was given a choice as to who I wanted on throne at this point.  If you get this option, you could choose Alistair as king and it will play out as above. Or if you choose Anora as queen Alistair will remain with you if you are in a relationship with him. If you choose to be with grey wardens you will get above ending. One time I chose to travel and it said that Alistair traveled with me for a time.  That ending was not as satisfying as Grey Warden ending.

Modifié par galesong1234, 11 janvier 2010 - 01:10 .

[galesong1234]

Whisa wrote...

bas273 wrote...

It's a bit odd that Loghain, a farmer, can become a general while you, a mage with an unknown origin (perhaps you are a noble!!) cannot become queen (even though you've united Ferelden and stopped the Blight).

A farmer is not universally feared if not hated.
A mage is feared, hated, and seen as a sign of possible blasphemy.

Imagine an Abomination-queen/ king.  Or a blood mage queen/ king.  The reason they won't allow it is because of those situations, or the fact that your queen/ king might accidently explode himself with magical research one day, or a word spoke incorrectly.  The chance for a farmer to burst into flames while mind controlling the landsmet is much, much lower.

It was interesting that the choice was offered though. Guess to much to hope for.

Can see point when considers that I had also completed Warden's Keep and drank the mage's Super Darkspawn Blood to get new powers which required using my blood as the weapon.

[Whisa]

galesong1234 wrote...

It was interesting that the choice was offered though. Guess to much to hope for.

Can see point when considers that I had also completed Warden's Keep and drank the mage's Super Darkspawn Blood to get new powers which required using my blood as the weapon.

I think the game assumes that you're utterly ignorant of human politics and wouldn't see why a elf/ dwarf/ mage wouldn't be a suitable king/ queen...  or they like to give you hope, then snatch it away with the landsmet + redcliffe.  I see your happy ending and raise you a kick in the stomach!

[katjaki]

Can't believe that I just read through most of this thread... Good to see I'm not the only one slightly obsessed over Al.

Did you know that when romancing Alistair, you should delay his normal conversation options? When he gets to "interested" status he'll throw in more flirt when talking to you. He offers to show you his interesting moles, and says he has lots of lines just for you.

I wonder if the dialogue changes even more if you get him to adore? Probably not... I don't even know if its possible to get his approval high enough without exhausting much of the conversation.

My first almost-playthrough was a female elf mage and, knowing next to nothing about the plot, I chose to arrange a political marriage between Anora and Alistair, and spare Loghain in Landsmeet. The ensuing shouting actually upset me quite deeply for something completely fictional. I was gutted to have Al yell at me that "there's no us" any longer, and that he would marry Anora but didn't want to ever see me again, or whatever. I don't consider myself an overly emotional person, but I was shaking a bit after that. I was so into Alistair during that first game, and the voice acting was... almost too good. :-(

Of course I then went to internets to read spoilers, and found out that to stay with Alistair I had to do something completely against my current PC's nature. So I did, but during the battle of Denerim I lost interest and started a new character, a human noble rogue. So I haven't actually FINISHED the game yet, because I want to do the romance right this time (and do all the side quests I missed the first time because of rushing the plot).

But ever since being yelled at that first time, there's been this odd, tiny hollow feeling about romancing Alistair. I don't know whether to thank BioWare for this experience or not.

Modifié par katjaki, 11 janvier 2010 - 03:49 .

[ejoslin]

katjaki wrote...

Can't believe that I just read through most of this thread... Good to see I'm not the only one slightly obsessed over Al.

Did you know that when romancing Alistair, you should delay his normal conversation options? When he gets to "interested" status he'll throw in more flirt when talking to you. He offers to show you his interesting moles, and says he has lots of lines just for you.

I wonder if the dialogue changes even more if you get him to adore? Probably not... I don't even know if its possible to get his approval high enough without exhausting much of the conversation.

My first almost-playthrough was a female elf mage and, knowing next to nothing about the plot, I chose to arrange a political marriage between Anora and Alistair, and spare Loghain in Landsmeet. The ensuing shouting actually upset me quite deeply for something completely fictional. I was gutted to have Al yell at me that "there's no us" any longer, and that he would marry Anora but didn't want to ever see me again, or whatever. I don't consider myself an overly emotional person, but I was shaking a bit after that. I was so into Alistair during that first game, and the voice acting was... almost too good. :-(

Of course I then went to internets to read spoilers, and found out that to stay with Alistair I had to do something completely against my current PC's nature. So I did, but during the battle of Denerim I lost interest and started a new character, a human noble rogue. So I haven't actually FINISHED the game yet, because I want to do the romance right this time (and do all the side quests I missed the first time because of rushing the plot).

But ever since being yelled at that first time, there's been this odd, tiny hollow feeling about romancing Alistair. I don't know whether to thank BioWare for this experience or not.

I had the same experience, where knowing how bad the relationship with Alistair turned out (I didn't spare Loghain my first time through, but didn't know enough to harden him and got harshly dumped in front of a room full of people), and aside from some playthroughs designed for revenge, just have never been able to romance him unless the purpose is to dump him or play with some dialog options.

A good place to discuss it is a Zevran love thread, as many of the people there have had reactions similar to you -- it's funny that a game can leave you feeling so . . . betrayed.  I truly understand the Alistair squee having had it my first play through -- but I will never have that heart-fluttery feeling with him.  And thank you bioware for letting me have it with him at least the once!

[eschilde]

@katjaki

Yeah, Alistair has problems conciliating the ideas of love and duty if you don't happen to be able to fulfill both. That does make him less of a perfect romanceable. Might be time to think about romancing Zevran or Leliana

[xgiovedi]

galesong1234 wrote...
Final Scene: Alistair is king. He will ask you what you want. If you choose first option (to serve king), Alistair will make you his chancellor where he seeks your advice and you rule when he is away. Next, Alistair will ask you what are your plans. If you choose to be with the Grey Wardens you will get the ending of Alistair is happy to leave court to be with his love, never to be parted except when Alistair makes a small memorial for Duncan.

That's interesting. I remember my first game (human noble) telling everyone I would stay in Denerim with Alistair. This time, I'm really gunning to let Anora be queen and travel with Alistair as Grey Wardens.

I am curious if I have to make Alistair King to get the Grey Warden ending, though? In a RP sense, my noble would get way too bored with being Qeen after the adventure she's had

[katjaki]

Thought about romancing Zevran, but I just can't seem to let go. Alistair had me well on the path of seduction long before the assassin even got into the game. :-/ And I'm playing a dw rogue, so Zevran has no role in the party, except for banter. I've bedded him, but it's "either me or him" time soon enough.



I still haven't decided whether to make Alistair King or not. Playing a HN has all the options open for me after all. I just hope I'd chosen this PC the first time through. All my original choices were like custom designed for epic fail with Alistair. But how could I know... I've never actually romanced anyone in these games before, because for one reason or another I've always disliked the potential partners. And I've been playing computer rpgs since the original Pool of Radiance.



Guess I'm a sucker for punishment because against all odds, I still hope that Al is the returning NPC option in Awakening.

[Sialater]

Well, I actually saw the dumping coming, playing as an elf mage. As duty bound as Al is, and as prejudiced against everything my character was as Ferelden is, it was inevitable. What really got me, though, was despite seeing it coming, I STILL felt like I'd been sucker punched.

[Freckles04]

Sialater wrote...

Well, I actually saw the dumping coming, playing as an elf mage. As duty bound as Al is, and as prejudiced against everything my character was as Ferelden is, it was inevitable. What really got me, though, was despite seeing it coming, I STILL felt like I'd been sucker punched.

^ This.

An elven mage was my first playthrough, too. And yes, in retrospect, all of the hints were there, quite plainly, actually. I remember staring at my TV, stunned, as Alistair walked away, thinking, "Did the game just break up with me??" and trying to figure out what I could say to get the romance back. (That's when I discovered this forum and all its spoilery goodness.) I was jittery and upset, and yes, it felt like I'd been sucker-punched.

It didn't colour how I viewed Alistair, however, or quell my desire to romance him with every female character I've played. I think he's a thoroughly engaging character, and so much deeper than a lot of people realize. The thing that makes him real to me is the fact that he is flawed. He can make very bad decisions, he can act somewhat irrationally, and he can break his love's heart...but that makes him as close to being a real person as a collection of pixels and code can get, imo.

[xgiovedi]

Well, at some points, if you ask Alistair "Where do you think this is going" he may tell you "I will do what I have to for Ferelden." I feel that Alistair has a very strong sense of honor for the Grey Wardens and to Ferelden. If he's crowned king, he doesn't want the public to ridicule you (if you're anything but a human noble), so I saw it more as his way of "protecting" you.

[kbach36]

Dragoness75 wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...

Confronting Loghain.....Talk about Blight...or who betrayed Ferelden....after this I focused on what not to do during debate......Never bring up Cailan to die....don't talk about about making Alistair king....which I didn't even want to suggest....when you talk to anora before landsmeet don't tell her you think Loghain should die.

If all goes well Alistair will be king....then it will instantly go into the I love you but I'm king dumping scene. I picked....We don't have to grow old together....Nobody can force the king..and Perhaps you should do what pleases you for once dialogue options...Alistair will reply with Dam them all and I feel like such an idiot for even bringing it up, please forgive me...I replied with You'll have to earn it.

Oh yeah.....Loghain will not just give up you will have to fight him to the death...I sent in Alistair so there would be no way for Alistair to wed Anora....Anora won't marry her father's murderer.

I am working on a Dalish Rogue playthrough and I have already "tuffened him up". Do you still get the ending that he never leaves your side, except for the memorial if you don't have him marry Anora, he does still need to make an heir?

Does the fight with Loghain happen before or after the "dumping" scene?

It does seem a bit ironic.  If you choose to stay in Denerim so you can be close to your love, he eventually gets called away to the Grey Warden Fortress, but if you choose to leave and go out and rebuild the Grey Wardens, then he will come and join you and only leaves your side once.

I was also shocked at my reactions to Alistair.  How could a computer character have such influence?  And man, talk about a kick to the stomach at Landsmeet.  My poor husband couldn't even do anything right for a few hours after that. (of course it didn't help that he was having a bit too much fun at my expense) but all is well now, I went back and fixed a few things and my little rogue got to keep her man. Not the absolute perfect ending, but about as it's going to get for the land of Ferelden.

I am on my second character -1st. female Dalish rogue, 2nd female mage and I am going to go for Zevran, but holding off Alistair is hard. I know what to say to get big dissapprovals, but I just can't do it. I have to go back and look for the responses that stay between -3 to +3.  I want to get up a little I just can't stand the way he says "What!?" when I click on him.  It is just so cold.

[kbach36]

katjaki wrote...

Can't believe that I just read through most of this thread... Good to see I'm not the only one slightly obsessed over Al.

Did you know that when romancing Alistair, you should delay his normal conversation options? When he gets to "interested" status he'll throw in more flirt when talking to you. He offers to show you his interesting moles, and says he has lots of lines just for you.

I wonder if the dialogue changes even more if you get him to adore? Probably not... I don't even know if its possible to get his approval high enough without exhausting much of the conversation.

My first almost-playthrough was a female elf mage and, knowing next to nothing about the plot, I chose to arrange a political marriage between Anora and Alistair, and spare Loghain in Landsmeet. The ensuing shouting actually upset me quite deeply for something completely fictional. I was gutted to have Al yell at me that "there's no us" any longer, and that he would marry Anora but didn't want to ever see me again, or whatever. I don't consider myself an overly emotional person, but I was shaking a bit after that. I was so into Alistair during that first game, and the voice acting was... almost too good. :-(

Of course I then went to internets to read spoilers, and found out that to stay with Alistair I had to do something completely against my current PC's nature. So I did, but during the battle of Denerim I lost interest and started a new character, a human noble rogue. So I haven't actually FINISHED the game yet, because I want to do the romance right this time (and do all the side quests I missed the first time because of rushing the plot).

But ever since being yelled at that first time, there's been this odd, tiny hollow feeling about romancing Alistair. I don't know whether to thank BioWare for this experience or not.

Isn't it great that there are so many of us.  At first your all like "Is it just me" then bam! nope.  Hello Alistair fan club.

I also had a similar reaction, now my romances with Alistair are still fun, but that intensity of the first round is gone.

[Addai]

LOL I chime in with the kick-in-the-gut people. I even knew what was coming, and knew I would be able to (Persuade) Alistair to keep me around, but the first time I did this I gave him all the nasty, frustrated replies out of sheer emotional wrenching. "You're joking, please tell me you're joking... is this revenge for making you king?"



Alistair disapproves.

[Little Mama]

I to had that "fluttery feeling" when I played the first game.
But after a played the "dumpingscen" and continued game after, it hit my in the head, *boom*, that this is still only a game. 
I couldnt belive how Al could be so cold and thet it wasnt even mentioned at the Denerim gates. I actually was qiut angry at him... untill he sacrficed himself that is, and gave me the answer "I know you will forgive me for that" when I askt him of his duty to his queen.  Aotch, that one hurt...

Any way, with my following games after that first round I dont have same devoted feelings and can even be mean to him now and then.

Modifié par Little Mama, 11 janvier 2010 - 07:43 .

[Little Mama]

Addai67 wrote...

LOL I chime in with the kick-in-the-gut people. I even knew what was coming, and knew I would be able to (Persuade) Alistair to keep me around, but the first time I did this I gave him all the nasty, frustrated replies out of sheer emotional wrenching. "You're joking, please tell me you're joking... is this revenge for making you king?"

Alistair disapproves.

But you cant disaprov of his behavior...  Not fair! He wont even talk to you about it. "Its to painful to think about and to tempting"
I wanted to scream at him and make him really jelouse so my character went to bed with Zev insted. But not even that made him react... Grrr
He just left you high and dry....  

Modifié par Little Mama, 11 janvier 2010 - 07:49 .

[kbach36]

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

[Little Mama]

kbach36 wrote...

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

You can say that again... if he ever does that to one of my female characters agin I make Anora queen and lets her kill him...   

or maybe not..

[katjaki]

I agree that all the signs for being dumped were there -- but I thought they were just for show. I've never before actually been kicked in the gut by any of these games for making decisions that aren't blatantly evil. It was brilliant in a way of course, but... Now I'm playing the game more for itself and the romance is just a fun "minigame" on the side, with that little sad feeling where flutters used to be.

One of the reasons I quit my first game during the endgame were the bugs. Like others have noted, Alistair kept talking about being King, even though I'd made Anora Queen, etc. I was sort of hoping BioWare would patch some of those bugs before I get to that part again.

BTW, how does Alistair respond when others click on him? I had him say "yes my love" at some point, but now he just says "yes my friend". Almost seems like a bug, too. Or does it depend on whether you've hardened him, or something? I hardened him during my first game, but not this time.

[kbach36]

In my first game I, when we were romancing (100-love)I got responses like "Yeeeesss" "Yes my love" and I think "as you command". now in my 2nd game (+4 neutral approval) I just get "What?!" and with a bit of attitude I might add.  I think it depends where on the approval scale you are and if you are in a romance.

Wouldn't it be really nice if the dev had given us some other responses to him dumping us.  There were a few choice things I would have told him. And yes, Little Mama, it would be great if we could approve or disapprove of his behavior. Lyna disapproves -100. (oh, yeah, how did that feel Alistair)

[kbach36]

But I still adore him:wub:.  I will romance him every time to hear "Maker's breathe, but your beautiful."