1287 réponses à ce sujet

[galesong1234]

SurelyForth wrote...

I tested to see if I could get Alistair to outright refuse the ritual (I couldn't without backing down). He was hardened, so I had to give him a reason and I chose "If you loved me, you'd do this". I kept on playing until about halfway through Fort Drakon, I thought "Wow, that was not a cool thing to do" and promptly re-loaded.

It's this decision, and the way you go about making yourself king/queen at the Landsmeet (a surprise v. an agreement), that make me think male PC's have it so much easier.

I alway tell Alistair the truth as well.  Dialogue is slightly different if Alistair is unhardened vs. hardened.

[VampOrchid]

So to be with Al, mage, elf or whatever that isn't HN.



You need either a harden Alistair that becomes king? And you can rule later as a chancellor? Hmm I don't like that one.



Or you can do the Alistair is unhardened, doesn't become king and you guys go off together? How does this work?



Or can he not be king without being hardened? Or would you have to suggest Anora be queen and have Al kill Logain? Wouldn't that sill kill some approval with al? I'm lost lol

[Sandtigress]

VampOrchid wrote...

So to be with Al, mage, elf or whatever that isn't HN.

You need either a harden Alistair that becomes king? And you can rule later as a chancellor? Hmm I don't like that one.

Or you can do the Alistair is unhardened, doesn't become king and you guys go off together? How does this work?

Or can he not be king without being hardened? Or would you have to suggest Anora be queen and have Al kill Logain? Wouldn't that sill kill some approval with al? I'm lost lol

Alistair doesn't need to be hardened to be king, but he is a better ruler hardened.

There are only two ways to stay with Alistair if you are not an HNF.

1) Harden Alistair and become his mistress.  Do this by telling him no one tells the king what to do, and that being king isn't a punishment when he tries to break up with you post-Landsmeet.

2)  Let Anora be queen, and run off with Alistair to rebuild the Wardens.  Unhardened Alistair is quite happy to do this, hardened Alistair is more adament about becoming king.  Personally, I don't like Anora as queen alone, so I hate this option.

[kbach36]

I just finished playing through with my elf mage and had her romance Zevran and avoided Alistair like the plague.  That is so so hard to do.  I had to be very careful of all my responses, I didn't want to say anything mean or hateful to him, but anything too nice and he would flip over to romance mode. But I finally made it all the way to the end. I hardened Alistair and put him on the throne alone (can't stand that...that woman, Anora)  and had Alistair at 100-Friendly.  I have to say that the conversation with hardened Alistair after you make him King was much more satisfying that when he comes stomping in to break up with your character. He sounds happy about being King and is looking forward to it, thanks you for all that you have done for him and basically says that he would be a better King if you stick around to help him.  It would be nice if you could get that when you romance him, after of course, he  agrees that he was foolish to try and leave you..  He also thanks you again at the city gates and talks about what an honor it has been fighting with you.

Zevran, on the other hand, once you get the earring, there isn't much talk left.  Even at the final battle, there is something lacking.  I took Morrigan's deal, I will have to sacrifice myself to see if Zev has anything  different to say.  Does anyone know?

Have  you tried just staying friends with Al, and what where your  thoughts.

[ejoslin]

kbach36 wrote...

I just finished playing through with my elf mage and had her romance Zevran and avoided Alistair like the plague.  That is so so hard to do.  I had to be very careful of all my responses, I didn't want to say anything mean or hateful to him, but anything too nice and he would flip over to romance mode. But I finally made it all the way to the end. I hardened Alistair and put him on the throne alone (can't stand that...that woman, Anora)  and had Alistair at 100-Friendly.  I have to say that the conversation with hardened Alistair after you make him King was much more satisfying that when he comes stomping in to break up with your character. He sounds happy about being King and is looking forward to it, thanks you for all that you have done for him and basically says that he would be a better King if you stick around to help him.  It would be nice if you could get that when you romance him, after of course, he  agrees that he was foolish to try and leave you..  He also thanks you again at the city gates and talks about what an honor it has been fighting with you.

Zevran, on the other hand, once you get the earring, there isn't much talk left.  Even at the final battle, there is something lacking.  I took Morrigan's deal, I will have to sacrifice myself to see if Zev has anything  different to say.  Does anyone know?

Have  you tried just staying friends with Al, and what where your  thoughts.

You have to invite Zevran to your tent in order to get his declaration.  If you don't accept the earring the first time, it's possible to get engaged to him as well if he offers it a second time.  

Edit: Zevran's declaration is actually very amazing.  I'm sorry you missed it.  That and the engagement is the best part of the romance.  Well, I like his speech at the gates too when he's romanced.

Second edit: If you actually meant he doesn't have much to say after the second offering of the earring, you're right, after he declares his feelings and you two end up engaged, unless you're a noble getting married to Alistair or Anora, he doesn't have much to say after that.  Until the gates.  Hmmm, enough Zevran squeen in an Alistair-love thread.

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 février 2010 - 05:00 .

[Addai]

kbach36 wrote...
Zevran, on the other hand, once you get the earring, there isn't much talk left.  Even at the final battle, there is something lacking.  I took Morrigan's deal, I will have to sacrifice myself to see if Zev has anything  different to say.  Does anyone know?

Have  you tried just staying friends with Al, and what where your  thoughts.

Zevran's declaration at the gates is moving.  If you've romanced him and try to leave him there... uh uh, no way.

Both Zevran and Alistair make good friends, though I think the friendship is warmer with Zevran.  At least it seems that way to me.

I'm finishing up my dumped-Alistair-HNF-becomes-queen playthrough and it's been interesting.  Post-Landsmeet was so cold, like there had never been any romance at all.  However, I was relieved that when approaching Alistair about the ritual, you can say "I love you, you know that, right?"  (You have both friend and romance options.)  His answer is a flustered, "Oh, I had wondered about that, after... Wait, why are you telling me this now?"  I was glad the game acknowledged the break-up and engagement ambiguity in some way.  At the gates, it's the buddy talk, though, no "I love you" dialogue line.  He does say "my love" when clicked on.  (Heh, since she flirted with Zevran early on, Zevran also says "si, amora."  There's bound to be talk at court about that!)

Modifié par Addai67, 09 février 2010 - 04:23 .

[kbach36]

Addai67 wrote...

Zevran's declaration at the gates is moving.  If you've romanced him and try to leave him there... uh uh, no way.

Both Zevran and Alistair make good friends, though I think the friendship is warmer with Zevran.  At least it seems that way to me.

I'm finishing up my dumped-Alistair-HNF-becomes-queen playthrough and it's been interesting.  Post-Landsmeet was so cold, like there had never been any romance at all.  However, I was relieved that when approaching Alistair about the ritual, you can say "I love you, you know that, right?"  (You have both friend and romance options.)  His answer is a flustered, "Oh, I had wondered about that, after... Wait, why are you telling me this now?"  I was glad the game acknowledged the break-up and engagement ambiguity in some way.  At the gates, it's the buddy talk, though, no "I love you" dialogue line.  He does say "my love" when clicked on.  (Heh, since she flirted with Zevran early on, Zevran also says "si, amora."  There's bound to be talk at court about that!)

To ejoslin, I did follow through and get the proposal, which was very sweet.

I never entered into the romance with Alistair, ( which took a lot of reloading, I seemed to always say the right, or as the case may be "wrong" thing and all of a sudden he had flipped from Friendly to Adore:whistle:) So I was really pleased with the post Landsmeet and Denerim City gate conversations.  Don't get me wrong, I also truly enjoyed the romance conversations, but after Landsmeet, I felt as though I was falling all over myself trying to convince him not to dump me.  Of course, with my first playthrough there was that "kicked in the gut feeling" and desperation of "OMG- I can't believe this is happening!"  and some of this- and  "I want more romance and how you love me talk", but alas, we needed to be off to slay the arch-demon.  Sigh. A Grey Wardens work is never done.  Well, I guess technically it is, but you know.

[ejoslin]

I feel bad for Alistair; the poor guy can't win. His sense of honor is so strong; no matter what, unless he sacrifices himself, he's missing out on something that he really does deserve. Either being the rightful king and doing good, or being able to live the way he really wants, with the woman he loves by his side. As distasteful as being his mistress sounds, I think it shows Alistair's love in one of its truest lights. It's against everything he believes is right -- but he loves the warden so much he's willing to put all that aside so he can be with her. And if he's not hardened, he's just not willing to be selfish enough to put the warden through what he considers demeaning to her. His heart is always in the right place.

To answer your question about if Zevran has anything different to say at the gate if you sacrifice yourself -- no, he doesn't. However, it's an awful ending, which of course appeals to the drama queen in me. But I'm glad you saw the romance to the end. I think the main problem I have with the way the romances end is once they're completed, the conversation stops. You do get additional dialog if you're a HN and getting married for political reasons, but only one!

Edit: I do think that Alistair wants to sacrifice himself more than anything.  If he's romancing the warden, he won't let her die, but even if it's the buddy ending, he wants to do it and argues for it.  The difference is, the issue of glory and being a legend comes into it, and Alistair is willing to let his best friend have that.  Because he really is just that giving!

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 février 2010 - 05:25 .

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: I do think that Alistair wants to sacrifice himself more than anything.  If he's romancing the warden, he won't let her die, but even if it's the buddy ending, he wants to do it and argues for it.  The difference is, the issue of glory and being a legend comes into it, and Alistair is willing to let his best friend have that.  Because he really is just that giving!

I agree.  Just finished my HNF game and as I was contemplating doing an ultimate sacrifice ending with her, I just couldn't get over how cruel it would be to Alistair.  He didn't want to be king- though being hardened that has changed- but in the Gauntlet and through other conversation we learn that he hates the fact that he was always spared and set aside and that he couldn't take the killing blow for Duncan.  Then to have his queen take it for him?  Besides being... well, emasculating...  it would be like a recurring nightmare.  I ended up taking Morrigan's deal, for this reason and because the ending for Zevran is awful, too.  Hurrah for metagame.  They are all going to live, whether happily ever after or not, that's a different story.  Making Alistair do something he so clearly hates doing, and living with it hanging over his head, is not syrupy sweetness, either.  This PC hates herself for doing it more than others of mine have.

Heh, dumped Alistair certainly is bitter at the post-coronation, despite having that bar at 100.  I got the "we aren't exactly friends, but this is what you wanted" dialogue.   Cooold.  It's a bit jarring, takes you out of the immersion, but RP-wise I figure they just start off the marriage on rocky footing.  That's not unexpected, considering they start off the engagement with my PC pressuring him to sleep with another woman.  However, the ending slide is the one about the adored bride, so they must get over it at some point.   Or else they put on a really good show.  I'm going with the former.  <3

Modifié par Addai67, 10 février 2010 - 07:00 .

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

I agree.  Just finished my HNF game and as I was contemplating doing an ultimate sacrifice ending with her, I just couldn't get over how cruel it would be to Alistair.  He didn't want to be king- though being hardened that has changed- but in the Gauntlet and through other conversation we learn that he hates the fact that he was always spared and set aside and that he couldn't take the killing blow for Duncan.  Then to have his queen take it for him?  Besides being... well, emasculating...  it would be like a recurring nightmare.  I ended up taking Morrigan's deal, for this reason and because the ending for Zevran is awful, too.  Hurrah for metagame.  They are all going to live, whether happily ever after or not, that's a different story.  Making Alistair do something he so clearly hates doing, and living with it hanging over his head, is not syrupy sweetness, either.  This PC hates herself for doing it more than others of mine have.

Heh, dumped Alistair certainly is bitter at the post-coronation, despite having that bar at 100.  I got the "we aren't exactly friends, but this is what you wanted" dialogue.   Cooold.  It's a bit jarring, takes you out of the immersion, but RP-wise I figure they just start off the marriage on rocky footing.  That's not unexpected, considering they start off the engagement with my PC pressuring him to sleep with another woman.  However, the ending slide is the one about the adored bride, so they must get over it at some point.   Or else they put on a really good show.  I'm going with the former.  <3

I think he gets over it, and that he's still in love with your Cousland.  That's why I don't like the dumped-Alistair slide; I like the purely political marriage slide because my Cousland usually is not faithful to Alistair, and he deserves NOT loving his bride in those circumstances.  It's about making an heir, after all, to keep the country united.  And that's not a dig to anyone -- that's always been why my Cousland marries Alistair, to rebuild Ferelden. 

[Monica21]

ejoslin wrote...
I feel bad for Alistair; the poor guy can't win. His sense of honor is so strong; no matter what, unless he sacrifices himself, he's missing out on something that he really does deserve. Either being the rightful king and doing good, or being able to live the way he really wants, with the woman he loves by his side. As distasteful as being his mistress sounds, I think it shows Alistair's love in one of its truest lights. It's against everything he believes is right -- but he loves the warden so much he's willing to put all that aside so he can be with her. And if he's not hardened, he's just not willing to be selfish enough to put the warden through what he considers demeaning to her. His heart is always in the right place.

Could not agree more. No matter how you play through the romance with him, everything is about duty. If he agrees to marry Anora then it's about duty. If he agrees to let the PC be his mistress, then it's about duty. My current HNF understands this about him because she's lived it. She doesn't have the same responsibility, but she does understand that the need to provide an heir overrides everything. Alistair is right about one thing, his blood continues to haunt him.

[SurelyForth]

None of my HNs are that enthralled with the whole "the need to provide an heir overrides everything" thing. They won't put unhardened Alistair on the throne because he would be unhappy and ineffectual and they put hardened Alistair on because they can see that he would be a good king. His being Maric's son means nothing to them, it just gets them through the door of the Landsmeet.



From their point-of-view, the Theirins aren't infallable and Ferelden is not so squishy that the lack of a Theirin on the throne would destroy it (as is evidenced by the fact that Teryn Bryce had a substantial faction of supporters and Anora can be made queen to little ill-effect). Having a strong ruler who is also cognizent on the importance of establishing a line of succession is what matters. The fact that (metagaming, ahoy!) unhardened Alistair is all about an heir but not necessarily being a good king does not sit well with me and, thus, them.

[ejoslin]

SurelyForth wrote...

None of my HNs are that enthralled with the whole "the need to provide an heir overrides everything" thing. They won't put unhardened Alistair on the throne because he would be unhappy and ineffectual and they put hardened Alistair on because they can see that he would be a good king. His being Maric's son means nothing to them, it just gets them through the door of the Landsmeet.

From their point-of-view, the Theirins aren't infallable and Ferelden is not so squishy that the lack of a Theirin on the throne would destroy it (as is evidenced by the fact that Teryn Bryce had a substantial faction of supporters and Anora can be made queen to little ill-effect). Having a strong ruler who is also cognizent on the importance of establishing a line of succession is what matters. The fact that (metagaming, ahoy!) unhardened Alistair is all about an heir but not necessarily being a good king does not sit well with me and, thus, them.

Yeh, I just play from a different point of view.  My HN doesn't want to marry Alistair, she doesn't want to be queen, she feels its her duty.  Only once has my HN married out of love -- my other play throughs, it's just purely political, she's in love with someone else whom she thought she was going to marry but realized that it's her duty to marry Alistair and become queen.  She thinks Alistair needs a strong queen, and she thinks Anora is power mad and NOT a good queen (she has a lot of sympathy towards the plight of the elves, after all, and the alienage cemented her resolve).

it's very sad for all involved, actually.

[Addai]

SurelyForth wrote...

None of my HNs are that enthralled with the whole "the need to provide an heir overrides everything" thing. They won't put unhardened Alistair on the throne because he would be unhappy and ineffectual and they put hardened Alistair on because they can see that he would be a good king. His being Maric's son means nothing to them, it just gets them through the door of the Landsmeet.

From their point-of-view, the Theirins aren't infallable and Ferelden is not so squishy that the lack of a Theirin on the throne would destroy it (as is evidenced by the fact that Teryn Bryce had a substantial faction of supporters and Anora can be made queen to little ill-effect). Having a strong ruler who is also cognizent on the importance of establishing a line of succession is what matters. The fact that (metagaming, ahoy!) unhardened Alistair is all about an heir but not necessarily being a good king does not sit well with me and, thus, them.

This one I played as considering a Theirin heir a very important goal.  It's why she dumped him at one point- it was not a rejection of him, rather cold feet because he had told her about the GW baby problem.  The legend of Calenhad is strong and though Ferelden might not dissolve without it, the country is stronger if held together by a mythos.  She happens to believe the mythos, BTW.  Alistair ends up showing both greatness and goodness despite having no advantages, for instance, while the Mac Tir's evidence callowness (thank you for the word, Sten) and vindictiveness.  It is not only blood, but neither is blood unimportant.  For instance, I wouldn't at all say that Anora was made queen with little effect!  It was with a civil war that almost destroyed the country.

In the end, she decided that the Theirin mythos could only be strengthened by a Cousland during the precarious Landsmeet phase, and if they survived Alistair would have a queen who loves him and is devoted to him and a hero to the people to boot.  She'll search for every mage from Ferelden to Tevinter to help them overcome the heir problem, and if there is no heir in a few years, well... they'll consider more drastic options.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 février 2010 - 03:51 .

[kbach36]

Monica21 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
I feel bad for Alistair; the poor guy can't win. His sense of honor is so strong; no matter what, unless he sacrifices himself, he's missing out on something that he really does deserve. Either being the rightful king and doing good, or being able to live the way he really wants, with the woman he loves by his side. As distasteful as being his mistress sounds, I think it shows Alistair's love in one of its truest lights. It's against everything he believes is right -- but he loves the warden so much he's willing to put all that aside so he can be with her. And if he's not hardened, he's just not willing to be selfish enough to put the warden through what he considers demeaning to her. His heart is always in the right place.

Could not agree more. No matter how you play through the romance with him, everything is about duty. If he agrees to marry Anora then it's about duty. If he agrees to let the PC be his mistress, then it's about duty. My current HNF understands this about him because she's lived it. She doesn't have the same responsibility, but she does understand that the need to provide an heir overrides everything. Alistair is right about one thing, his blood continues to haunt him.

I have to agree also.  I find myself trying for the happiest ending for Alistair, not my pc. It is difficult to know sometimes what it is he truly  wants.  He says he doesn't want to be King all through the game, but then when you ask him at Landsmeet what he wants, he wants to be King.(this is hardened Al).  I haven't played an unhardened version yet.  I suspect the best/happiest ending for Alistair would be not to harden him and let Anora rule, and the two of you ride off into the sunset to rebuild the Grey Wardens.

[SurelyForth]

The civil war was because of Loghain taking the regency and forcing the nobility to a) accept him and hand over their men to replace those lost at Ostagar (under dubious circumstances). Cailan also did not establish a clear line of succession prior to his death. If Anora had been named heir and had Loghain not taken her throne, civil war would have very likely been avoided. After the Landsmeet, even if you put Anora alone on the throne, the civil war is ended. There might eventually be fallout from her refusal to remarry, but the only definite negative to that scenario is the events in the Denerim Alienage.

[ejoslin]

SurelyForth wrote...

The civil war was because of Loghain taking the regency and forcing the nobility to a) accept him and hand over their men to replace those lost at Ostagar (under dubious circumstances). Cailan also did not establish a clear line of succession prior to his death. If Anora had been named heir and had Loghain not taken her throne, civil war would have very likely been avoided. After the Landsmeet, even if you put Anora alone on the throne, the civil war is ended. There might eventually be fallout from her refusal to remarry, but the only definite negative to that scenario is the events in the Denerim Alienage.

The fact that Anora had run the country for 5 years, and the atrocities against the elves had been going on during that time was enough for my warden.  Of course, a Cousland, Grey Warden or no, actually marrying an elf may have been far more than Ferelden could stand as well (especially since at that point it she didn't realize that Fergus was alive and so as far as she knew she was Teyrna of Highever, or would soon be).  So perhaps it did all work out for the best, but it still was not what she wanted.

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 février 2010 - 06:06 .

[kbach36]

Addai67 wrote...

This one I played as considering a Theirin heir a very important goal.  It's why she dumped him at one point- it was not a rejection of him, rather cold feet because he had told her about the GW baby problem.  The legend of Calenhad is strong and though Ferelden might not dissolve without it, the country is stronger if held together by a mythos.  She happens to believe the mythos, BTW.  Alistair ends up showing both greatness and goodness despite having no advantages, for instance, while the Mac Tir's evidence callowness (thank you for the word, Sten) and vindictiveness.  It is not only blood, but neither is blood unimportant.  For instance, I wouldn't at all say that Anora was made queen with little effect!  It was with a civil war that almost destroyed the country.

In the end, she decided that the Theirin mythos could only be strengthened by a Cousland during the precarious Landsmeet phase, and if they survived Alistair would have a queen who loves him and is devoted to him and a hero to the people to boot.  She'll search for every mage from Ferelden to Tevinter to help them overcome the heir problem, and if there is no heir in a few years, well... they'll consider more drastic options.

I must say that I like your line of thinking.  I just started up a HNF character and have played a bit, but stopped because I am not sure which direction I would like to go in.  Part of me wants to play through without ever romancing Alistair and putting my pc forward as Queen to rule with him. (Though doing that I miss all the good dialogue that you get with Alistair. ) And another part wants to play a "Love conquers all" story.

Cheers to a game, that even after mulitple playthroughs, still engages me.

[Addai]

The civil war ends because you (along with Eamon) are, essentially, giving up. What choice do the other nobles have but to follow? Anora could not keep her throne without you, she says as much. If she could, she would not need the Grey Warden at all. It is not only to sideline her father that she needs you, but to speak for her in the Landsmeet.

[SurelyForth]

ejoslin wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

The civil war was because of Loghain taking the regency and forcing the nobility to a) accept him and hand over their men to replace those lost at Ostagar (under dubious circumstances). Cailan also did not establish a clear line of succession prior to his death. If Anora had been named heir and had Loghain not taken her throne, civil war would have very likely been avoided. After the Landsmeet, even if you put Anora alone on the throne, the civil war is ended. There might eventually be fallout from her refusal to remarry, but the only definite negative to that scenario is the events in the Denerim Alienage.

The fact that Anora had run the country for 5 years, and the atrocities against the elves had been going on during that time was enough for my warden.  Of course, a Cousland, Grey Warden or no, actually marrying an elf may have been far more than Ferelden could stand as well (especially since at that point it she didn't realize that Fergus was alive and so as far as she knew she was Teyrna of Highever, or would soon be again).  So perhaps it did all work out for the best, but it still was not what she wanted.

I've said this before, but...the elves certainly were not flourishing under Maric's rule either. Also, it's my impression that the alienages would fall under the jurisdiction of the Arl of Denerim rather than the regency. Even the Couslands, who are seen as being progressive in their treatment of elves, haven't been able to really improve the situation for them in Highever (if the codex entry is to be believed). When I think of my HN's futures, if they are in Denerim at all, they are working towards improving the Alienage and easing tensions between humans and elves, but that's their own personal priority and informed by their experiences. I imagine that Anora is as clueless as Cailan (and even Alistair, really) about how terrible things really are for the alienage elves.

The cvil war ends because you (along with Eamon) are, essentially, giving up. What choice do the other nobles have but to follow? Anora could not keep her throne without you, she says as much. If she could, she would not need the Grey Warden at all. It is not only to sideline her father that she needs you, but to speak for her in the Landsmeet.

I don't get that sense at all, that you're giving up.  If anything, you're working your ass off to make a case against Loghain, to get him out of the regency, because that's the only way you'll have the freedom and support to get done what needs to get done (ie ending the civil war and focusing on the Blight). Eamon's proposed way to oust Loghain is to get the throne from Anora through Alistair's claim.

And Anora could keep the throne without you, which is why you can have 5/6 votes and still lose if she speaks out against you, even though you have a Theirin in tow. 

[Addai]

SurelyForth wrote...

And Anora could keep the throne without you, which is why you can have 5/6 votes and still lose if she speaks out against you, even though you have a Theirin in tow. 

That's true.  Anora's words about needing the Grey Warden, and about the importance of Theirin blood, are no doubt her way of hedging her bets.  I think she is banking on you all dying in the Blight anyway, once you've weakened her father enough so that she gets top spot again.  The human equivalent of the dwarves' discussion on the eve of the battle, where they are talking about one clan who stayed behind in Orzammar because they hoped they'd be the only ones left standing.

I'm biased because the idea of Anora on the throne makes my eyes itch.  My latest Cousland- who didn't want to be a Grey Warden- would have been quite a broken person if Alistair had died, she had to watch Anora take the throne, and she was no more able to provide a Cousland heir for Highever than she would have been able to produce a royal heir.

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

And Anora could keep the throne without you, which is why you can have 5/6 votes and still lose if she speaks out against you, even though you have a Theirin in tow. 

That's true.  Anora's words about needing the Grey Warden, and about the importance of Theirin blood, are no doubt her way of hedging her bets.  I think she is banking on you all dying in the Blight anyway, once you've weakened her father enough so that she gets top spot again.  The human equivalent of the dwarves' discussion on the eve of the battle, where they are talking about one clan who stayed behind in Orzammar because they hoped they'd be the only ones left standing.

I'm biased because the idea of Anora on the throne makes my eyes itch.  My latest Cousland- who didn't want to be a Grey Warden- would have been quite a broken person if Alistair had died, she had to watch Anora take the throne, and she was no more able to provide a Cousland heir for Highever than she would have been able to produce a royal heir.

Yeah, the only question for me is 'do I sacrifice myself so Alistair can take the throne?' or 'do I convince Alistair to do the ritual so he can take the throne?' I simply don't see any positives for a rule by Anora that aren't as good or better with Alistair. And I don't like her.

[Sandtigress]

The ritual decision will be a hard one for my HNF. She's total white knight "don't even think of me as an assassin" type, so ordinarily I think she would say no way to the ritual. However, she'll be engaged to Alistair, knows he needs a strong queen to help him, and also believes herself to be the last of the Couslands. There's no way that she'd let Alistair risk dying because she believes Theirin blood is important to the throne, but if she risks it, then the Couslands die out and the throne is in jeopardy anyways, at least in the early years of Alistair's rule, while he learns the ins and outs of ruling a kingdom.



I think likely she'll let Alistair decide it (and we know how that turns out) because she'll be too conflicted to say yes or no one way or the other.

[SurelyForth]

My first playthrough, it was easy for me to make Anora queen over unhardened Alistair based on what I saw while playing the game. She did not betray me to Ser Cauthrien (I stood down) and she seemed straightforward, savvy and very competent when I spoke to her at Eamon's. Compared to Alistair, who was cowering in a corner wincing everytime anyone said his name, it was the easiest thing in the world to support her. Then, at the Landsmeet, she kept her end of the deal and came across as being WAY stronger than Alistair. Unless you know the ending, or unless you harden Alistair, it's not difficult to get the impression that Anora is the better choice. (I also liked the idea of rewarding a strong, independent woman who had been toiling away in her husband's shadow for so long.) That Alistair told me to choose her pretty much sealed the deal.

Now, of course, I have to really fight the urge to metagame, but I can make Anora solo queen with a fairly clean conscience most of the time, but only if Alistair is unhardened.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 10 février 2010 - 06:11 .

[ejoslin]

SurelyForth wrote...


I've said this before, but...the elves certainly were not flourishing under Maric's rule either. Also, it's my impression that the alienages would fall under the jurisdiction of the Arl of Denerim rather than the regency. Even the Couslands, who are seen as being progressive in their treatment of elves, haven't been able to really improve the situation for them in Highever (if the codex entry is to be believed). When I think of my HN's futures, if they are in Denerim at all, they are working towards improving the Alienage and easing tensions between humans and elves, but that's their own personal priority and informed by their experiences. I imagine that Anora is as clueless as Cailan (and even Alistair, really) about how terrible things really are for the alienage elves.

I don't get that sense at all, that you're giving up.  If anything, you're working your ass off to make a case against Loghain, to get him out of the regency, because that's the only way you'll have the freedom and support to get done what needs to get done (ie ending the civil war and focusing on the Blight). Eamon's proposed way to oust Loghain is to get the throne from Anora through Alistair's claim.

And Anora could keep the throne without you, which is why you can have 5/6 votes and still lose if she speaks out against you, even though you have a Theirin in tow. 

Ah, but in my play through, again, my Cousland was in love with an elf, which would change her opinion considerably.

That said, I don't think the vote had anything to do with who was on the throne, Alistair or Anora.  It's the landsmeet deciding who to follow, the Warden or Loghain.  Isn't it?  Or did I miss that entirely.  The fact that the warden afterwards decides who goes on the throne really feeds into that.  If Anora could keep the rule by herself, the landsmeet would have supported her immediately when she tried to take it back (which she does).  She actually DID need the warden's support.