1287 réponses à ce sujet

[SurelyForth]

Bratt1204 wrote...

CalJones wrote...

She's a good queen, adept at politics and popular. I see no reason to remove her. I see marrying her to Alistair as the best way to unite Fereldan (and yes I did this when I romanced Alistair, sacrificing that relationship for the good of Fereldan much like Loghain did with Rowan).

You did this RPing as a Cousland Female? You feel that having Alistair marry Anora would be better for Ferelden then if he married a Cousland Female? I strongly disagree. Based on the amount of times I have played this game, Anora is a deceitful manipulator. I would execute her immediately if given the option.  

I did this as a Cousland Female (only my PC stayed with Alistair).  She knew that Anora was a power-hungry manipulator, but she also respected her for being a capable ruler (it helps that Anora seems to realize that being competent behooves her in her attempt to maintain power) and knew that, with Alistair tempering her less than ideal tendencies, they could be a very good match.  It also offered the most seamless transition of power, which makes sense given the utter chaos in the aftermath of the civil war/just before the battle in Denerim.

Of course, none of my PC's buy into the notion that your blood or breeding makes you an inherently better person or ruler, or more deserving of respect. They'll hold much against her (depending on the playthrough) but never her lack of noble blood.

I will admit that I did not keep this ending, because I decided that Alistair deserved to marry whomever he wanted. The only saved ending I have with them together is where I spared Loghain (and that was a Female Cousland, too!).

Modifié par SurelyForth, 19 février 2010 - 10:05 .

[nos_astra]

Hm, she was capable ruler as long as the kingdom was at peace. The year after Ostagar she was only Daddy's girl. Of course, we don't see much of her. Of course, I could make up something in her favor if I had the desire. I do not.

[Bratt1204]

klarabella wrote...

Hm, she was capable ruler as long as the kingdom was at peace. The year after Ostagar she was only Daddy's girl. Of course, we don't see much of her. Of course, I could make up something in her favor if I had the desire. I do not.

Agreed. In reality, she would never have been allowed to rule on her own after she was widowed, being only a Princess-Consort anyway. She would have been forced to marry a Noble male or have been assassinated to allow another Noble male in Ferelden to assume the throne (as I have stated in other posts). But of course, this is a game not reality. Nonetheless, I will not be swayed in my opinion of Anora and believe Alistair will be an outstanding King ( and I of course a equally outstanding Queen  )

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

klarabella wrote...

Good question. Maybe until you can inherit the 'noble blood' from both
sides of the family?

Was Loghain married to a noblewoman? And -
um - Alistair's mother was a commoner (but being a king's son probably
helps forgetting this part of his hertiage when convenient).

Anora's mother was a commoner. Loghain married a cabinet maker's daughter. After the war, Loghain became the teyrn of Gwaren, and I believe it was then he married. Anora was born after, so she was born a noble.  For all intents and purposes, the Mac Tir line is officially noble, however, because it is the newest noble family with no history, it is by most of the nobility, considered common. Most nobles really only consider your line noble after several generations of being so. Old blood, like the Couslands, who were a noble family and teyrns before even the days of Calenhad and the creation of the unified nation of Ferelden, are considered the highest, and perhaps, purest, of the nobility because of the old age of their line and ranking amongst the nobility. Which is always why some nobles would have prefered Bryce on the throne over Cailan.

Having one parent being a commoner doesn't cancel out the possibility of being a noble, but the other nobles might consider you "watered down" and some how inferior to a "pure" noble. Nobility tend to believe that somehow, their lineage makes them naturally and magically superior to those without a pedigree, and no matter how much a commoner might be superior physically, mentally, morally and such, that their parentage makes them inferior.

Alistair would be considered inferior to his fully pedigreed brother, Cailan, in that respect, but superior to Anora in the fact one parent was a king. However, it seems not all nobles tend to hold such rigid views, given the fact that Anora was popular and had plenty of support from the nobility (if she turns against you in the landsmeet, her lack of support gives you the biggest minus in terms of points to win the landsmeet, though if you played your cards right, you can still win without her. Her vote has the most weight amongst the nobility)

her lack of an old, lineaged family tree is mainly a point of concern to the old guard hard core tradtionalists like Eamon, who is very conservative and takes the bloodline as most important qualification to rule the most serious.

[galesong1234]

So, instead of tackling this subject through pedigrie; let's come at it through circumstance.



1. Your king is dead

2. The queen is still alive but power is in question.

3. Like Rome, a military power (Loghain) has seized power under the disquise of war.

4. Here comes Grey Wardens, a military foce in their right without strength of number, brings

their own candidate for king. Until Eamon get's cured, the nobles had not even considered

Alistair as a possible candidate they've only known him as an outlawed Grey Warden.



The question is would be, if you were a noble in Ferelden, who would you choose?



1. Would you choose to put somebody in power for the sake of the distant future of Ferelden.

2. Would you make your decision based on battling the immediate threat? Who could best when

the battle over the darkspawn.

3. Most would try to make the decision for both the future of Ferelden and the immediate battle.

That being said

a. Who would be the better ruler? Anora or Alistair?

b. Who would be the best militairy support? Two outlawed Grey Wardens (rallying support

throughout the land) or Loghain, who has a reputation of being a fierce military leader and

has won many battles.



Remember, you must base you answer as if you were a Ferelden Noble at Landsmeet and your casting your vote.



Don't base answer on standing outside the game and knowing what happens.

[galesong1234]

So, instead of tackling this subject through pedigrie; let's come at it through circumstance.



1. Your king is dead

2. The queen is still alive but power is in question.

3. Like Rome, a military power (Loghain) has seized power under the disquise of war.

4. Here comes Grey Wardens, a military foce in their right without strength of number, brings

their own candidate for king. Until Eamon get's cured, the nobles had not even considered

Alistair as a possible candidate they've only known him as an outlawed Grey Warden.



The question is would be, if you were a noble in Ferelden, who would you choose?



1. Would you choose to put somebody in power for the sake of the distant future of Ferelden.

2. Would you make your decision based on battling the immediate threat? Who could best when

the battle over the darkspawn.

3. Most would try to make the decision for both the future of Ferelden and the immediate battle.

That being said

a. Who would be the better ruler? Anora or Alistair?

b. Who would be the best militairy support? Two outlawed Grey Wardens (rallying support

throughout the land) or Loghain, who has a reputation of being a fierce military leader and

has won many battles.



Remember, you must base you answer as if you were a Ferelden Noble at Landsmeet and your casting your vote.



Don't base answer on standing outside the game and knowing what happens.

[galesong1234]

Ooooopppps! Sorry, double posting.

[nos_astra]

It's so hard to say considering the way the game presents it. I hate the entire landsmeet setting. It's a shortcut to something that would need a lot more talking an negotiating. The problem is that our regent and fierce military leader is actually accused of being responsible for the mess we're facing. Is there enough evidence or not?

The landsmeet suffers from the need to recycle as much stuff (cutscenes, dialogue, voice acting) as possible which means that everything plays out the exact same way if the player supports Anora or not.

If I assume that there is more time than 5 minutes of shouting at each other, a brawl and a quick decision then ... yes, if I'm not blind and deaf, if I heard the rumours and know what's going on (there's a civil war after all) then maybe I know enough to think that Loghain is a threat and those two Grey Wardens down there who just faught and bit their way to the landsmeet with 4 armies in tow may have a point.

But honestly, if I was writing a story of my PCs adventures I'd change definitely change the whole landsmeet part to something more believable.

Modifié par klarabella, 21 février 2010 - 09:25 .

[galesong1234]

klarabella wrote...

It's so hard to say considering the way the game presents it. I hate the entire landsmeet setting. It's a shortcut to something that would need a lot more talking an negotiating. The problem is that our regent and fierce military leader is actually accused of being responsible for the mess we're facing. Is there enough evidence or not?

The landsmeet suffers from the need to recycle as much stuff (cutscenes, dialogue, voice acting) as possible which means that everything plays out the exact same way if the player supports Anora or not.

If I assume that there is more time than 5 minutes of shouting at each other, a brawl and a quick decision then ... yes, if I'm not blind and deaf, if I heard the rumours and know what's going on (there's a civil war after all) then maybe I know enough to think that Loghain is a threat and those two Grey Wardens down there who just faught and bit their way to the landsmeet with 4 armies in tow may have a point.

But honestly, if I was writing a story of my PCs adventures I'd change definitely change the whole landsmeet part to something more believable.

Let's assume we are not deaf and dumb and our decision is based on rumors and facts of what we have heard. Especialy, after Eamon went ahead to Denerim rallying support for Alistair. Would you beleive Eamon?

[galesong1234]

Just finished looking at the facts page for DAO: Awakenings.  Very sad. Our romance won't carry over. There won't be any acknowledgement from Alistair.

Makes me not want to carry over my pcs from previous games. 

Perhaps someone will create a mod for this. Hopefully.

[SurelyForth]

galesong1234 wrote...

Just finished looking at the facts page for DAO: Awakenings.  Very sad. Our romance won't carry over. There won't be any acknowledgement from Alistair.

Makes me not want to carry over my pcs from previous games. 

Perhaps someone will create a mod for this. Hopefully.

David Gaider has said that there will be acknowledgement (at least from others) that you are in a relationship, but there won't be any opportunity to move the relationship further in Awakening.

[Giant ambush beetle]

I guess Dev's didn't put more time into the Allistair cameo because not so few people let him to be executed or leaving the party.
But Morrigan-Lovers will be pretty upset, they wont even see a Morrigan cameo at all.

@ SurelyForth
Wow, your DAO your character is hot. 

Modifié par The Woldan , 21 février 2010 - 10:12 .

[nos_astra]

galesong1234 wrote...
Just finished looking at the facts page for DAO: Awakenings.  Very sad. Our romance won't carry over. There won't be any acknowledgement from Alistair.

That's not what Ferret A Baudoin and David Gaider said some days ago. You may want to read here and here.

[galesong1234]

The Woldan wrote...

I guess Dev's didn't put more time into the Allistair cameo because not so few people let him to be executed or leaving the party.
But Morrigan-Lovers will be pretty upset, they wont even see a Morrigan cameo at all.

@ SurelyForth
Wow, your DAO your character is hot. 

Who's are you referring to.

Only you guy let him leave. Maybe a few girls.  Most of us girls kept him in the game. I actually liked Morrigan. Denerim gates kinda touching.

[galesong1234]

klarabella wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...
Just finished looking at the facts page for DAO: Awakenings.  Very sad. Our romance won't carry over. There won't be any acknowledgement from Alistair.

That's not what Ferret A Baudoin and David Gaider said some days ago. You may want to read here and here.

Thanks for help. Makes me feel better about transferring pc. It's the small things in life that count.

[CalJones]

Bratt1204 wrote...

CalJones wrote...

She's a good queen, adept at politics and popular. I see no reason to remove her. I see marrying her to Alistair as the best way to unite Fereldan (and yes I did this when I romanced Alistair, sacrificing that relationship for the good of Fereldan much like Loghain did with Rowan).

You did this RPing as a Cousland Female? You feel that having Alistair marry Anora would be better for Ferelden then if he married a Cousland Female? I strongly disagree. Based on the amount of times I have played this game, Anora is a deceitful manipulator. I would execute her immediately if given the option.  

No, that PC was a mage. I've only played Cousland males thus far. Despite being female, I have a hard time RPing women unless they are, at least in some ways, similar to myself. In real life, I've never, in all my 42 years, been remotely interested in settling down and having a family and I can't imagine my characters wanting to do that either. Out of the two females I've taken through, one was a lesbian city elf who ended up rebuilding the wardens with Leliana (with Al married to Anora and Loghain making the sacrifice) and the other was my mage who romanced Al but gave him up for what she considered the greater good so that he could marry Anora. She then sacrificed herself in order to allow Al to move on with his life. Kind of sad, really, but it felt right to me.
The being queen ending doesn't interest me at all. However, in my current game I'm playing a male Cousland and am working on marrying Anora (and why not, she's smart and pretty and has a good political head on her shoulders).
I don't see Anora as deceitful. She certainly is manipulative but she needs to be - politics is a dog eat dog world and she doesn't need the Banns running rings around her. Elizabeth I was probably the greatest monarch England has ever had and she was tough, manipulative and didn't bow to the whims of others, either. I find it quite sad that most of the Anora haters seem to be female, or at least have female avatars. As a woman, I love that she's such a tough cookie.

[Addai]

We're supposed to like Anora because we're women? She's conniving, deceitful, manipulative, and selfish. She will sell Ferelden down the river for the sake of her own power, turning on the Wardens (whom she knows are needed to end the Blight) if they don't lick her boots convincingly enough. Hurrah for the sisterhood!

It depends on my PC what I do with her, but there's no way I can like her, and any respect I have for her is grudging. The codex entry on her- for instance, that the Empress of Orlais calls her a "rare flower" or something- seems incongruous to the Anora we meet in-game. Unless the Empress meant a Venus flytrap.

Modifié par Addai67, 21 février 2010 - 11:02 .

[soignee]

My Aeducan playthrough went something like this in my head...

Alistair: I don't want to be King!
Sereda Aeducan: Uh, ok. I mean, I know politics. It makes sense you should be kin-
Alistair: I'll be rubbish!
(Thinks about it.) Sereda: Well, you have a point... I mean, uh... Well, you don't have that head for politics I mean. Rescuing kittens from trees and stomping genlocks in the face, yes. And keeping my bedroll warm...
Alistair: YOU SEE? Wait, perhaps not about the bedroll part, but, uh...
Sereda: You're an heir!
Alistair: So was you brother, but you killed him and made Harrowmont leader.
Sereda: That's not- I mean, wait. That's different.
Alistair: Tell me something, if Harrowmont made you his heir and asked you to rule Orzammar, would you? I mean, you are of royal blood...
Sereda: Well, uh... Maybe. Perhaps. But I'm a Grey Warden now.
Alistair: Ha! You see?
Sereda: *sigh* Anora it is. But we'll be keeping an eye on her...
(enter scene.) Zevran: Oh? Might I offer my ...talents in such services, my dear?

(And the three of them sailed off into Grey Warden paradise, awaiting Awakenings and for Anora to do something stupid...)

End scene.

Modifié par soignee, 21 février 2010 - 11:23 .

[galesong1234]

LOL! Just started my female dwarf for the first time. She actually has a much better plot, but have a hard time getting past her height. I like the part, where she was sent to the dead trenches to survive with nothing but her skills and wits. However, have a hard time seeing her with Alistair.



Mayble it's time to give Zev a chance?

[ejoslin]

The antivan likes his dwarves! Though both romances work just fine with a dwarf. But yes, give Zev a chance. But I warn you . . . this may corrupt you (in very good ways). The Zevran romance is fantastic.

[galesong1234]

ejoslin wrote...

The antivan likes his dwarves! Though both romances work just fine with a dwarf. But yes, give Zev a chance. But I warn you . . . this may corrupt you (in very good ways). The Zevran romance is fantastic.

Have only gotten to where Zev gives earing. I usually bring Zev and Lelianna to rescue Anora as they are all stealthy.  However, it never fails that before I reach destination we meet up with Taliesin and Zev leaves me to fight him alone (Just me and Lelianna). That's when I get really mad at Zev.

[galesong1234]

I don't know. Its gonn'a be hard to turn me to the Zev side. I originally started this thread.

[ejoslin]

galesong1234 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The antivan likes his dwarves! Though both romances work just fine with a dwarf. But yes, give Zev a chance. But I warn you . . . this may corrupt you (in very good ways). The Zevran romance is fantastic.

Have only gotten to where Zev gives earing. I usually bring Zev and Lelianna to rescue Anora as they are all stealthy.  However, it never fails that before I reach destination we meet up with Taliesin and Zev leaves me to fight him alone (Just me and Lelianna). That's when I get really mad at Zev.

The ONLY way Zev leaves you is if he's under 71+ adore and he's romanced -- and even then he'll fight if you tell Taliesen, "Zevran doesn't need the Crows any more.".  And that is the ONLY time in the game you can question him about his relationship with Taliesen -- so there's a lot going on there.  If he's not romanced and at least +33 or if he's over 71+ when romanced, he will fight no matter what.  The fight is far easier when he leaves as well -- much fewer Crows to battle.

If you've gotten the earring  (you should turn it down anyway since he won't admit his feelings at that point), you still haven't finished  the romance.  It has the most amazing ending.  When he finally declares his feelings and his intentions, it is pretty intense.  

I actually find it interesting that you're able to keep him at "care" instead of "adore" your games where you romance him.  You don't hear about his last mission below 71 adore or 91 friendly, you are definitely not going to the tent, or at least not often.  But you are getting the earring afterwards, which happens at 91 love.  Heh, you pace out your romances quite well.

Edit: You cannot complete the Zevran romance if you're romancing Alistair as well.  You need to be able to talk to him and invite him to your tent, and if Alistair is romanced as well, you're forced to choose.

Second edit: Besides, it's interesting to do both romances to completion at least once, if only to see the differences (they in many ways are the opposite and inverse of each other).

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 février 2010 - 12:06 .

[galesong1234]

I do talk him out of going to bed with me. Or I will bed him once and break up. After that you have a couple of dialogue choices to reinstate romance. One of main ones is "Do you always look at someone like that."



Mostly, I use Zev to make things more interesting with Alistair.

[ejoslin]

galesong1234 wrote...

I do talk him out of going to bed with me. Or I will bed him once and break up. After that you have a couple of dialogue choices to reinstate romance. One of main ones is "Do you always look at someone like that."

Mostly, I use Zev to make things more interesting with Alistair.

yeh, see, that's why I suggest completing the romance once.  And if you want him to stay and fight, that's VERY easy -- it's more difficult to get him to leave.  The reason I do that every once in awhile is I like having the additional dialog.

But saying you got the romance up to the earring is the same as saying you got the Alistair one up to the rose.  There's SO much more to it.  And it's really quite beautiful and far deeper than expected.