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[galesong1234]

ejoslin wrote...

The antivan likes his dwarves! Though both romances work just fine with a dwarf. But yes, give Zev a chance. But I warn you . . . this may corrupt you (in very good ways). The Zevran romance is fantastic.

You've gotten me more curious though. I just started a Dalish female rogue. I think I'll try her.  I'll just get Alistair really ticked at me (I can get a -37 by killing off Eamon's son. No romance from that point on with Alistair). 

So when you asked him about his liasons with guy's, did you answer that it bothered you or did you answer that it didn't matter?

[galesong1234]

ejoslin wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...

I do talk him out of going to bed with me. Or I will bed him once and break up. After that you have a couple of dialogue choices to reinstate romance. One of main ones is "Do you always look at someone like that."

Mostly, I use Zev to make things more interesting with Alistair.

yeh, see, that's why I suggest completing the romance once.  And if you want him to stay and fight, that's VERY easy -- it's more difficult to get him to leave.  The reason I do that every once in awhile is I like having the additional dialog.

But saying you got the romance up to the earring is the same as saying you got the Alistair one up to the rose.  There's SO much more to it.  And it's really quite beautiful and far deeper than expected.

Are you saying it's harder and more work to get earing from Zev than getting rose from Al?

[ejoslin]

galesong1234 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...

I do talk him out of going to bed with me. Or I will bed him once and break up. After that you have a couple of dialogue choices to reinstate romance. One of main ones is "Do you always look at someone like that."

Mostly, I use Zev to make things more interesting with Alistair.

yeh, see, that's why I suggest completing the romance once.  And if you want him to stay and fight, that's VERY easy -- it's more difficult to get him to leave.  The reason I do that every once in awhile is I like having the additional dialog.

But saying you got the romance up to the earring is the same as saying you got the Alistair one up to the rose.  There's SO much more to it.  And it's really quite beautiful and far deeper than expected.

Are you saying it's harder and more work to get earing from Zev than getting rose from Al?

Well, it happens later in the game, and no, it's not harder, but he has to be at 91 love (and seriously, you need to turn it down when he offers it).  

What I'm saying is that there is a lot more to the romance after the first offering of the earring.  With Alistair, you get the rose at 51 care, but there aren't too many more romance dialog (though you may have more regular dialogs, depending on how you pace that).  There's the kiss you get at 71+, and either the proposition or the letting you know you're his first and last at 91+.  Then of course, the "where are we going," talk, which can be read as Alistair declaring his intentions I suppose.

With Zevran, after he offers the earring for the first time, whether you accept it or not, there's a few more romance dialogs along with an amazing friendship one (how amazing depends on how you answer -- if you tell him he's your friend, it's amazing, if you tell him you're more than friends, it's downgraded to very sweet).  It ends up with you two possibly being engaged, but even if that doesn't happen, even his declaring his feelings is incredibly intense, sweet, sad, gritty -- just like the rest of the romance.

Edit; What we were talking about was Zevran's "personal quest" -- the confrontation with Taliesen.  There is a situation that may happen, but it's rare to see since the circumstances are very limited, where Zevran won't fight with or against you.  But since Zevran, when romanced, has such huge approval gains (including +1 for every trip to the tent), it's difficult to keep his approval low enough for that to happen.  And if you're not romancing him, but at least warm, he will fight with you no matter what.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 février 2010 - 01:19 .

[galesong1234]

So, it would be best played by declining the earing, which I always accept?



What is best play to get unconditional love?

[ejoslin]

galesong1234 wrote...

So, it would be best played by declining the earing, which I always accept?

What is best play to get unconditional love?

Turn down the earring.  Next conversation at camp, let him know you think of him as a friend (just because what he says is so amazing -- it doesn't make a difference regarding the romance, it's a friendship dialog, the "more than friends" option you CAN pick is a romance turn on line, but like all of those, if you're in a romance with him already, it falls flat).  Then invite him to your tent a couple of times.  He will end up declaring his feelings, and when he asks you if you know what he means, tell him either, "I am no wiser than you" or "Maybe it would be better for you if we stopped."

You need to select one of those two lines, NOT the nicest dialog option there (so do NOT select, "I do, and I feel the same way" as that ends the conversation), in order to end up engaged.  I think it's a dialog bug, but who knows.  Truthfully, for the best response, pick "Maybe it would be better for you if we stopped."

Edit: depending on how you turned down the earring, you may have gotten up to 15 disapproval.  That's ok, though.  You don't get him declaring his feelings until he hits 91+ love though, so you may have to go to the tent a few extra times   You most likely will get a lower ding, so that won't be necessary.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 février 2010 - 12:45 .

[Nonvita]

You get unconditional love no matter what once he hits that point. But for the best declaration of his feelings, yes, you'll want to turn down the earring.

I love how that part of the romance has you going through several different dialogues before you finally get him to say things out loud. It's actually a fairly complex process (turn down earring, ask to your tent, ask what changed but don't choose the "I feel the same way" answer, and so on and so forth), especially compared to Alistair's romance dialogues, but it's so much more rewarding in the end. Just don't ever let Zevran get away with leaving things unsaid- if you find him shying away from expressing his feelings, then call him out on it until he admits them!


EDIT: Annnnnnd I knew ejoslin would get in there before me. XD

Modifié par Nonvita, 22 février 2010 - 12:46 .

[ejoslin]

Nonvita wrote...

You get unconditional love no matter what once he hits that point. But for the best declaration of his feelings, yes, you'll want to turn down the earring.

I love how that part of the romance has you going through several different dialogues before you finally get him to say things out loud. It's actually a fairly complex process (turn down earring, ask to your tent, ask what changed but don't choose the "I feel the same way" answer, and so on and so forth), especially compared to Alistair's romance dialogues, but it's so much more rewarding in the end. Just don't ever let Zevran get away with leaving things unsaid- if you find him shying away from expressing his feelings, then call him out on it until he admits them!


EDIT: Annnnnnd I knew ejoslin would get in there before me. XD

I is ninja:ph34r:

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 février 2010 - 12:47 .

[galesong1234]

ejoslin wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...

So, it would be best played by declining the earing, which I always accept?

What is best play to get unconditional love?

Turn down the earring.  Next conversation at camp, let him know you think of him as a friend (just because what he says is so amazing -- it doesn't make a difference regarding the romance, it's a friendship dialog, the "more than friends" option you CAN pick is a romance turn on line, but like all of those, if you're in a romance with him already, it falls flat).  Then invite him to your tent a couple of times.  He will end up declaring his feelings, and when he asks you if you know what he means, tell him either, "I am no wiser than you" or "Maybe it would be better for you if we stopped."

You need to select one of those two lines, NOT the nicest dialog option there (so do NOT select, "I do, and I feel the same way" as that ends the conversation), in order to end up engaged.  I think it's a dialog bug, but who knows.  Truthfully, for the best response, pick "Maybe it would be better for you if we stopped."

Edit: depending on how you turned down the earring, you may have gotten up to 15 disapproval.  That's ok, though.  You don't get him declaring his feelings until he hits 91+ love though, so you may have to go to the tent a few extra times   You most likely will get a lower ding, so that won't be necessary.

Hmmm, that is interesting. Turnig down Zev has the complete opposite effect. If you turn down Al romance completely ends.  Will have to try this. I can romance in my sleep now as many times as I've played out all the options.  Usually, I play Al as close to breaking up just to spice things up.

So, am actually looking forward to this. Thanks.

[ejoslin]

You may actually manage to break it off with him if you choose mean dialogs the first offer (and definitely the second time -- don't refuse it the second time). But you can always refuse it if he refuses to say it actually means something -- that's his fault for not being willing to put himself out there. Zevran, with most dialogs, your best bet is not going for what you think he wants to hear but also not being mean either -- it makes him the most uncomfortable, but you do get the best dialogs. With Alistair, his heart is completely on his sleeve -- turning down the rose is turning him down.

Have fun with it. You still may end up still completely hooked on Alistair (his romance IS wonderful) but you may end up surprised as well.

Since this IS an Alistair-love thread, I'll contribute something about his romance ending. I think his being willing to take the warden as his mistress is a true expression of his love. It goes against everything he believes in -- remember how special sex really is for him; it has so much meaning, and he thinks it's horribly unfair to both the warden and his future queen. But he is willing to put aside some of his deepest beliefs because of his love for the Warden.

(I hope that earns me forgiveness for my Zevran squee here!)

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 février 2010 - 02:14 .

[SurelyForth]

ejoslin wrote...

Since this IS an Alistair-love thread, I'll contribute something about his romance ending. I think his being willing to take the warden as his mistress is a true expression of his love. It goes against everything he believes in -- remember how special sex really is for him; it has so much meaning, and he thinks it's horribly unfair to both the warden and his future queen. But he is willing to put aside some of his deepest beliefs because of his love for the Warden.

(I hope that earns me forgiveness for my Zevran squee here!)

You're absolved!

I agree, too. I wonder if it would bite the Warden in the butt in the long run, but the resolve in his voice once he "gets it" is more satisfying than anything he says when you make yourself queen, in my opinion. The fact that there is exactly one difference between the mistress and queen epilogues (the wedding card) makes it very easy for me to never have him marry my PC's. 

[galesong1234]

I actually never thought about it that way. I always felt lucky that I didn't get dumped. I've been playing a lot of tragic endings lately. It's much easier to sacrifise one or the other than live without Al.





Zev? Usually, don't like short guys and the way he put his hand on his hip when you choose him as a traveling companion? Doesn't quite do it for me.



I actually tried downloading a different looking Zev with dark hair. Until I went to work and he looked just like Tommy, a male hairdresser that works with me. He too has a big ego and is very short. lol.

[galesong1234]

SurelyForth wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Since this IS an Alistair-love thread, I'll contribute something about his romance ending. I think his being willing to take the warden as his mistress is a true expression of his love. It goes against everything he believes in -- remember how special sex really is for him; it has so much meaning, and he thinks it's horribly unfair to both the warden and his future queen. But he is willing to put aside some of his deepest beliefs because of his love for the Warden.

(I hope that earns me forgiveness for my Zevran squee here!)

You're absolved!

I agree, too. I wonder if it would bite the Warden in the butt in the long run, but the resolve in his voice once he "gets it" is more satisfying than anything he says when you make yourself queen, in my opinion. The fact that there is exactly one difference between the mistress and queen epilogues (the wedding card) makes it very easy for me to never have him marry my PC's. 

Mitress is better I would say than queen. That would be very if it were like the relationships in Dune.

[ejoslin]

galesong1234 wrote...

I actually never thought about it that way. I always felt lucky that I didn't get dumped. I've been playing a lot of tragic endings lately. It's much easier to sacrifise one or the other than live without Al.


Zev? Usually, don't like short guys and the way he put his hand on his hip when you choose him as a traveling companion? Doesn't quite do it for me.

I actually tried downloading a different looking Zev with dark hair. Until I went to work and he looked just like Tommy, a male hairdresser that works with me. He too has a big ego and is very short. lol.

He's only shorter than a human!  And that never is an issue for my HNF -- she finds elves attractive anyway.

I sometimes mod all of the characters, though I actually really like the way Zevran looks. The funniest mod I ever did was "rugged Alistair."  He looked great until the tent.  The really sweet expressions on his face totally don't work on a man who looks about 30.  I laughed so hard and removed the mod and reloaded.

[galesong1234]

Seriously, laughing right now. I've seen that mod of Alistair. Although, I thought he looked more like forty-something. So far fav mod of Alistair has been of Natural Alistair. Not too far off from original but better than original.





Most scary mod of Al would be Emo Alistair I think.

[Kryyptehk]

ejoslin wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...

I actually never thought about it that way. I always felt lucky that I didn't get dumped. I've been playing a lot of tragic endings lately. It's much easier to sacrifise one or the other than live without Al.


Zev? Usually, don't like short guys and the way he put his hand on his hip when you choose him as a traveling companion? Doesn't quite do it for me.

I actually tried downloading a different looking Zev with dark hair. Until I went to work and he looked just like Tommy, a male hairdresser that works with me. He too has a big ego and is very short. lol.

He's only shorter than a human!  And that never is an issue for my HNF -- she finds elves attractive anyway.

I sometimes mod all of the characters, though I actually really like the way Zevran looks. The funniest mod I ever did was "rugged Alistair."  He looked great until the tent.  The really sweet expressions on his face totally don't work on a man who looks about 30.  I laughed so hard and removed the mod and reloaded.

I have all of my companions modded, except Alistair, Zevran and Oghren. First because I think Alistair is wicked attractive the way he is (but I'm partial, considering all my characters that don't have male parts are with him.) but I think Zevran looks are great for his character. Couldn't imagine him any other way.

And Oghren, well, because he is one sexy beast, of course.

[soignee]

galesong1234 wrote...

I don't know. Its gonn'a be hard to turn me to the Zev side. I originally started this thread.

Oh I am a staunch supporter of Aeducan/Alistair, despite my Zev love, if only for the utter utter romance of it. It makes for delicious drama!

"Sereda Aeducan, Exiled dwarven Princess of Orzammar joins a band of heroes who aim to protect the people, -humans dwarves and elves alike-  from evil. There she meets Alistair, bastard prince of the human throne.... And the two of them fall in love.  Will they stay together, or will duty and their political obligations seperate them?"

Seriously, there needs to be one of those heaving bosom style paintings on the front cover and boom! Fantasy romance trope... Especially if one of you nobly sacrifices yourself.

Modifié par soignee, 22 février 2010 - 03:22 .

[galesong1234]

Kryyptehk wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...

I actually never thought about it that way. I always felt lucky that I didn't get dumped. I've been playing a lot of tragic endings lately. It's much easier to sacrifise one or the other than live without Al.


Zev? Usually, don't like short guys and the way he put his hand on his hip when you choose him as a traveling companion? Doesn't quite do it for me.

I actually tried downloading a different looking Zev with dark hair. Until I went to work and he looked just like Tommy, a male hairdresser that works with me. He too has a big ego and is very short. lol.

He's only shorter than a human!  And that never is an issue for my HNF -- she finds elves attractive anyway.

I sometimes mod all of the characters, though I actually really like the way Zevran looks. The funniest mod I ever did was "rugged Alistair."  He looked great until the tent.  The really sweet expressions on his face totally don't work on a man who looks about 30.  I laughed so hard and removed the mod and reloaded.

I have all of my companions modded, except Alistair, Zevran and Oghren. First because I think Alistair is wicked attractive the way he is (but I'm partial, considering all my characters that don't have male parts are with him.) but I think Zevran looks are great for his character. Couldn't imagine him any other way.

And Oghren, well, because he is one sexy beast, of course.

I love Oghren. He is so one of my favorite traveling PCs. He has the funniest sidequest. Hey makes me laugh at those tense moments by the things he says. And he totally makes Alistair blush, "What do you do with her legs?"

If you sacrifise yourself and are at friendship. The ending box says something about a tear in his eye and he names his daughter after to you.

Modifié par galesong1234, 22 février 2010 - 03:37 .

[SurelyForth]

 Heh, this is how it went with my Lady Aeducan:

Alistair: ...because my father was King Maric...
Marhan: So that makes you a prince, right?
Alistair: Uh, yes. But I don't want to be a prince!
Marhan: But you *are* a prince. And, since there's all kinds of royal drama happening all over the place, it's going to be an Issue.
Alistair: But I'm a commoner! And a Grey Warden!
Marhan: No. You're a prince. Not only that, you're a prince in a country where the king died and left no heir to the throne and a civil war has ensued because of power hungry jerks.
Alistair: *sigh* Fine, you win. I'm a prince. That's sexy, right? 
Marhan: Yeah, think about what we just went through in Orzammar and ask me that again.
Alistair:  This is over, isn't it?
Marhan: Unless Leliana and Zevran are your secret half-siblings then, yes, this is totally over. 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 22 février 2010 - 03:34 .

[galesong1234]

ejoslin wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...

So, it would be best played by declining the earing, which I always accept?

What is best play to get unconditional love?

Turn down the earring.  Next conversation at camp, let him know you think of him as a friend (just because what he says is so amazing -- it doesn't make a difference regarding the romance, it's a friendship dialog, the "more than friends" option you CAN pick is a romance turn on line, but like all of those, if you're in a romance with him already, it falls flat).  Then invite him to your tent a couple of times.  He will end up declaring his feelings, and when he asks you if you know what he means, tell him either, "I am no wiser than you" or "Maybe it would be better for you if we stopped."

You need to select one of those two lines, NOT the nicest dialog option there (so do NOT select, "I do, and I feel the same way" as that ends the conversation), in order to end up engaged.  I think it's a dialog bug, but who knows.  Truthfully, for the best response, pick "Maybe it would be better for you if we stopped."

Edit: depending on how you turned down the earring, you may have gotten up to 15 disapproval.  That's ok, though.  You don't get him declaring his feelings until he hits 91+ love though, so you may have to go to the tent a few extra times   You most likely will get a lower ding, so that won't be necessary.

Ok, so spend most of weekend trying out Zev romance.  Either it was my timing or wrong dialogue choices. But it fell short of my hopes.

Am happy to say that I am still an Alistair girl.

Would like to thank you and others for advice. I tried out different things to avoid Alistair romance and learned somethings in the process.

[nos_astra]

Um, now that I have two nobles romancing Alistair I wondered if the rumour is true and nobles can't be mistresses?

One is a rogue who was eager to become a Grey Warden and who will be Warden Commander in the end. So she could be his mistress if that's possible.
The other is a warrior who didn't want to be a Grey Warden, who is a warrior princess sort of and will go for the beloved bride ending, naturally.

Modifié par klarabella, 23 février 2010 - 12:00 .

[SurelyForth]

klarabella wrote...

Um, now that I have two nobles romancing Alistair I wondered if the rumour is true and nobles can't be mistresses?

One is a rogue who was eager to become a Grey Warden and who will be Warden Commander in the end. So she could be his mistress if that's possible.
The other is a warrior who didn't want to be a Grey Warden, who is a warrior princess sort of and will go for the beloved bride ending, naturally.

Nobles can be mistresses.

[nos_astra]

Good for her ... and Alistair, I suppose.

[SurelyForth]

klarabella wrote...

Good for her ... and Alistair, I suppose.

It's my preferred ending for a HN who puts him on the throne, I think. I always feel like I'm taking advantage of him when I make the PC his queen, like even if that character didn't have ulterior motives he would have that in the back of his head.

It's more an issue of the game mechanics than his reaction, though. And maybe a little bit of roleplaying. The character I've done this with, who is also my favorite PC, dodges her feelings for him most of the game (and was surprised by how upset she got when she realized he was trying to end their relationship post-Landsmeet) and won't even say she loves him when she leaves him at the gates (which she does in case Morrigan's ritual fails). It would feel wrong to her, after being so evasive with her feelings, to force him into a commitment without knowing for sure that he would want it.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 23 février 2010 - 01:22 .

[nos_astra]

Yes, the roleplaying - that's why I have two nobles now. The rogue just wasn't the kind of girl who would want to be queen. She's the type who would either go for the mistress ending or for the ride-into-the-sunset-ending.

The new warrior princess is more of a lady. She'll probably decide that she'd make an excellent political match even before she falls for him.

I tend to ignore the landsmeet game mechanics and pretend that they actually talk about such things beforehand.

Modifié par klarabella, 23 février 2010 - 01:37 .

[kbach36]

galesong1234 wrote...

Ok, so spend most of weekend trying out Zev romance.  Either it was my timing or wrong dialogue choices. But it fell short of my hopes.

Am happy to say that I am still an Alistair girl.

Would like to thank you and others for advice. I tried out different things to avoid Alistair romance and learned somethings in the process.

Sorry to hear that your Zev romance didn't work out.  But Yea! Alistair!

Can I get you to share some of the things you learned.  Even after multiple playthroughs, I am amazed when I find something new.