1287 réponses à ce sujet

[galesong1234]

Inakhia wrote...

Only cheat I've used is the console one to add extra gold on this last run thru. Battles aren't that hard for now I have some idea of what to expect on my 2nd play through. I'm using an assassin type rogue for stealth and some nasty back stabbity damage. Do some serious damage on targets. Lots of fun.

I'm definately don't do the whole magic thing very well.

I usually go right into the whole hack and slash.  Have to say i love playing female rogue....much more finesse.  Will leave the whole warrior thing to Alistair...I love to watch him wield his sward and shield.

[MICHELLE7]

Inakhia wrote...



    Alistair craves a close loving family more than anything else, which has been shown in the Desire demons dreamscape for him.

Wasn't that the sloth demon in the circle of magi quest. And I thought that at first too...that a family was what he wanted more than anything until I looked at what the screen says when you teleport there...nightmare. If you take each of your party members in with you you'll find that what they encounter there is something that is unpleasant for them personally. Zevran was on a rack about to be tortured. Wynne was morning over the fact that she couldn't save the magi in the tower. Shale was back to being a statue again. Leliana was cloistered in the chantry praying(if you harden her you'll find out that she really wasn't happy to be in the chantry at all). All this leads to the conclusion that settling down to a normal family life is not what Alistair really wants. Just like those things are their nightmares so is his.

I just got through playing a male character where I had hardened Alistair and chose to save Loghain. Alistair was livid. When he's hardened(at least in my game) he insists on being King. I agree that unhardened Alistair has a tendency to go with the flow...let others make his decisions for him. I had thought for a while that he really didn't want to be King until I realized we don't really see the real Alistair until he's hardened...being King is what he wanted all along(since as he puts it...he's finally standing up for himself...getting what he wanted).

I found it interesting that one of the footnotes if you convinced Anora to let Alistair go after choosing her for Queen and saving Loghain was that he becomes a drunkard that babbles about how he used to be a Grey Warden and heir to the throne. Oh and he can be quite nasty too you if you save Loghain and make him marry Anora...quite nasty indeed...in fact I found him to be worse then than Morrigan was if you reject her offer.

Sorry, I'm babbling...I just finished another game and it's all fresh in my mind. I did the ultimate sacrifice one and found I liked that one better than the others...weird...really weird.

[galesong1234]

RGC_Ines wrote...


Second way
:
Looks like last checkpoint for main story is a door to the top of the Fort where You will fight against Archdemon. Simple trick is just NOT enter on the roof via door but just use another console option such: runscript zz_cli_debug then choose JUMP TO AN AREA -> JUMP TO DENERIM -> ON THE ROOF OF FORT DRAKON. That will allow You to enter into finall battle without passing door and without checkpoint. At the end You both survive and Alistair even havn't idea about Morrigan's ritual ( he said something like " looks like Riordan was wrong" or something like it, )

Ok, I tried your second option. It did, in deed work,  except the the dialogue part said that he still bedded Morrigan.  The funny part though is my pc came back to the throne room hunched over and twitching like RucK  from the Orzammar quest. Pretty sad actually.

Still unhappy with my ending of being dumped so I went and let Alistair Sacrifise himself. It's probably the longest and most passionate kissing scene in the  game.

[galesong1234]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Inakhia wrote...



    Alistair craves a close loving family more than anything else, which has been shown in the Desire demons dreamscape for him.

Wasn't that the sloth demon in the circle of magi quest. And I thought that at first too...that a family was what he wanted more than anything until I looked at what the screen says when you teleport there...nightmare. If you take each of your party members in with you you'll find that what they encounter there is something that is unpleasant for them personally. Zevran was on a rack about to be tortured. Wynne was morning over the fact that she couldn't save the magi in the tower. Shale was back to being a statue again. Leliana was cloistered in the chantry praying(if you harden her you'll find out that she really wasn't happy to be in the chantry at all). All this leads to the conclusion that settling down to a normal family life is not what Alistair really wants. Just like those things are their nightmares so is his.

I just got through playing a male character where I had hardened Alistair and chose to save Loghain. Alistair was livid. When he's hardened(at least in my game) he insists on being King. I agree that unhardened Alistair has a tendency to go with the flow...let others make his decisions for him. I had thought for a while that he really didn't want to be King until I realized we don't really see the real Alistair until he's hardened...being King is what he wanted all along(since as he puts it...he's finally standing up for himself...getting what he wanted).

I found it interesting that one of the footnotes if you convinced Anora to let Alistair go after choosing her for Queen and saving Loghain was that he becomes a drunkard that babbles about how he used to be a Grey Warden and heir to the throne. Oh and he can be quite nasty too you if you save Loghain and make him marry Anora...quite nasty indeed...in fact I found him to be worse then than Morrigan was if you reject her offer.

Sorry, I'm babbling...I just finished another game and it's all fresh in my mind. I did the ultimate sacrifice one and found I liked that one better than the others...weird...really weird.

I think the tragic ending is one of my favorites....seems what woul happen in real life.  I was also shocked at one point of the game when Alistair screams at you that you can't be with him and zev.  It was loud and abrasive.  It actually kind'a woke me up from my lul.

[Inakhia]

Wasn't that the sloth demon in the circle of magi quest. And I thought that at first too...that a family was what he wanted more than anything until I looked at what the screen says when you teleport there...nightmare. If you take each of your party members in with you you'll find that what they encounter there is something that is unpleasant for them personally. Zevran was on a rack about to be tortured. Wynne was morning over the fact that she couldn't save the magi in the tower. Shale was back to being a statue again. Leliana was cloistered in the chantry praying(if you harden her you'll find out that she really wasn't happy to be in the chantry at all). All this leads to the conclusion that settling down to a normal family life is not what Alistair really wants. Just like those things are their nightmares so is his.

I don't think they were simple Nightmares. I think the demons took each characters primary or strongest emotional memory. For Wynne it was the destruction and death in the Tower, Zev fear of the crows catching up to him, ect... For Alistair his strongest longing/regret at this point is his family.

Indeed for our characters, it was meant to be peace, I think. We had destroyed the threat and were meant to take comfort in the fact we had won and were taking a well earnt break in Wiesshaupt(?)

[Inakhia]

I think the whole point of this game is that things are rarely black and white. Every decision has an outcome, every action has a consequence. Even apparently minor things have repercussions down the road. None of the characters are perfect flawless, which is what makes this game so very very enoyable. Their all flawed real characters with their own opinions and preferences and once you understand them its very easy to see which way their likely to jump on any major point you make.
Its why Alistair is *so* very annoying about Loghain. You know and I know that Duncan would have probably recruited Loghain without a second thought. However for Alistair the Wardens were his second family. Allowing the murderer of his family to essentially take the place of said family is *simply* the one this he wont be rational about. Just because I understand it however, doesn't still mean I don't want to shake him silly over his stubbornness.

Heheheheee I'm really enjoying this thread.

Modifié par Inakhia, 04 décembre 2009 - 06:17 .

[galesong1234]

Inakhia wrote...

I think the whole point of this game is that things are rarely black and white. Every decision has an outcome, every action has a consequence. Even apparently minor things have repercussions down the road. None of the characters are perfect flawless, which is what makes this game so very very enoyable. Their all flawed real characters with their own opinions and preferences and once you understand them its very easy to see which way their likely to jump on any major point you make.
Its why Alistair is *so* very annoying about Loghain. You know and I know that Duncan would have probably recruited Loghain without a second thought. However for Alistair the Wardens were his second family. Allowing the murderer of his family to essentially take the place of said family is *simply* the one this he wont be rational about. Just because I understand it however, doesn't still mean I don't want to shake him silly over his stubbornness.

Heheheheee I'm really enjoying this thread.

You must be not be able to sleep at night as well!?!?

Okay....I don't believe they  were nightmares. The demon wanted to control them, keep them there, suck there energy, what not.  The demon and menions used their dreams to control them, pacify them, sate their needs so they would not escape.

[galesong1234]

Inakhia wrote...

I think the whole point of this game is that things are rarely black and white. Every decision has an outcome, every action has a consequence. Even apparently minor things have repercussions down the road. None of the characters are perfect flawless, which is what makes this game so very very enoyable. Their all flawed real characters with their own opinions and preferences and once you understand them its very easy to see which way their likely to jump on any major point you make.
Its why Alistair is *so* very annoying about Loghain. You know and I know that Duncan would have probably recruited Loghain without a second thought. However for Alistair the Wardens were his second family. Allowing the murderer of his family to essentially take the place of said family is *simply* the one this he wont be rational about. Just because I understand it however, doesn't still mean I don't want to shake him silly over his stubbornness.

Heheheheee I'm really enjoying this thread.

I'm in love with Alistair....this is sooo sad.  Can't seem to get enough of him. I went and purchased Mass Effect just to play something different as I have never played ME before. I just wanted to get away from Alistair. The stupid ME game has installation errors. Thus I'm back to play my 3rd round of DAO.

First and foremost   I want to throttle unhardened Alistair. And though I love of man of integrity (when he refuses to cheat on his future queen and pc) I hate it when it produces stupidity.  So obviously I am still fuming over my ending of making him king and not being able to persuade unhardened Alistair to stay with my pc.

3rd round playing Female human Rogue again; however, this time, after Lothering I'm heading straight over to Redcliffe so he can tell me abot his sister. Then I am going to march over to Denerim and hardened that boy up.

Since I usually wait till very end to hardened Alistair up...I am interested to see if there will be a difference in the dialogue.

Modifié par galesong1234, 04 décembre 2009 - 09:27 .

[am_victory]

I like Alistair a lot, but in real life - not my type. At all. I'm going to start a new game, though, and see what I think after hardening him - my first play-through I did *not* harden him. I'll be taking the advice of the other person who said head for Redcliff straight after Lothering, then Denerim.

[MICHELLE7]

Inakhia wrote...

I think the whole point of this game is that things are rarely black and white. Every decision has an outcome, every action has a consequence. Even apparently minor things have repercussions down the road. None of the characters are perfect flawless, which is what makes this game so very very enoyable. Their all flawed real characters with their own opinions and preferences and once you understand them its very easy to see which way their likely to jump on any major point you make.
Its why Alistair is *so* very annoying about Loghain. You know and I know that Duncan would have probably recruited Loghain without a second thought. However for Alistair the Wardens were his second family. Allowing the murderer of his family to essentially take the place of said family is *simply* the one this he wont be rational about. Just because I understand it however, doesn't still mean I don't want to shake him silly over his stubbornness.

Heheheheee I'm really enjoying this thread.

Not black and white...I can agree with that but it seems to me that they took the time to blend some of the other personalities but not Alistair. What I mean by that is if you harden Leliana you find out that she wasn't very happy being in the chantry...that she found it boring. So you kinda have an excuse for her change in behavior...but with Alistair...geez...it's like he's got a split personality or something.

I still think that Alistair(or one of his personalities lol) wanted to be king. I would think he would see it as an acknowledgment of who he was. Couldn't have been easy feeling rejected by your own father.  Of course on one of my run throughs when I picked Loghain I went back to camp and talked to him about Alistair. King Maric came close to acknowledging Alistair but backed out at the last minute because he was afraid of the scandal and hurt it would cause Queen Rowan...plus it might raise legitimacy questions about Cailin being the next King. I got the feeling that Alistair was a little older than Cailin and excluding his commoner mother the legitimate heir.

And that's another thing that bugs me about the endings...Alistair's got a commoner mother...Anora is a commoner(her raise up the ranks was only because of her father's miltary success but there wasn't any royal blood)...yet the only way I can sit on the throne is if I'm of royal blood. Loghain even says that his position and title was won through his career and service to the kingdom...I just saved the bloody kingdom from darkspawn and the archdemon...and you mean I can't marry Alistair as a commoner and Anora can(how many archdemon's has Loghain slain?)...geez.

[Jacks-Up]

\\

Was very surprised when I picked...I don't know if we had a future dialogue...Alistair starts talking about Grey Wardens not being able to have children...we don't have to have children, etc. then you can pick I don't want to give up or one other one and have a hopeful responce...in which he says...you're worth it. Play around with it and pick your favorite responce.

I am going actually restart after the tent scene and see if Alistair will approach me on the what happens next subject on his own.

Yes they can you can knock up Morrigan without doing that ritual thing so I don't know where he's getting that from he's not firing blanks.

[Phex]

I'm playing a city elf had done the hardening quest for Alistair... I never had sex with him, his approval was at 100 and in love, and he never asked for it... Then he dumped me as well. Weird that the game thought he did have sex with my character considering the dialogues I had with Leliana asking how I like him in bed, maybe something bugged out?

I also told him something along the lines of "maybe you should do something you want to do, for a change" and he replied "you know, you're right, screw what others think!" and then I lose 15 approval and he turns into friendly and the romance is over.

He seems like a fool to me now... I can so imagine my elf thinking to herself "I dumped Zevran for THIS?!"

Modifié par Sefferz, 04 décembre 2009 - 05:22 .

[MICHELLE7]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Yes they can you can knock up Morrigan without doing that ritual thing so I don't know where he's getting that from he's not firing blanks.

It's almost impossible for two grey wardens to have children together. It's not as hard for a grey warden and someone who is not a grey warden...hence Morrigan with child.

Modifié par MICHELLE7, 04 décembre 2009 - 05:38 .

[MICHELLE7]

galesong1234 wrote...

I'm in love with Alistair....this is sooo sad.  Can't seem to get enough of him. I went and purchased Mass Effect just to play something different as I have never played ME before. I just wanted to get away from Alistair. The stupid ME game has installation errors. Thus I'm back to play my 3rd round of DAO.

First and foremost   I want to throttle unhardened Alistair. And though I love of man of integrity (when he refuses to cheat on his future queen and pc) I hate it when it produces stupidity.  So obviously I am still fuming over my ending of making him king and not being able to persuade unhardened Alistair to stay with my pc.

3rd round playing Female human Rogue again; however, this time, after Lothering I'm heading straight over to Redcliffe so he can tell me abot his sister. Then I am going to march over to Denerim and hardened that boy up.

Since I usually wait till very end to hardened Alistair up...I am interested to see if there will be a difference in the dialogue.

:DI actually bought Dragon age to get my mind off Kaidan from Mass Effect. I was writing fanfic and everything.

As for your installation issues...you might google your specific error or look on the ME website(technical forum or FAQs) to see if anyone else had the same issues. Can your computer handle two games that size...I'm assuming that your loading it up without uninstalling Dragon Age. I've got both of them on mine but I've got quite a bit of space(learned my lesson when I couldn't install Witcher...went back and upgraded...haven't had problems since).

If you get it running I think you'll like it. It doesn't have as much dialog as DAO but it's a great game. Your character even talks...something I really missed in DAO. If you romance Kaidan check out the overlook scene in the citadel. It's easy to miss. Once you get to the citadel you can't do any side quests in the game or the scene disappears from the game. Kaidan accidently flirts with Shepard and winds up putting his foot in his mouth.

 It wasn't until about my fourth playthrough until I found out about it and I actually found it on youtube first rather than in game. I don't like the look of the Shepard in it but if you don't mind being spoiled the url is

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par MICHELLE7, 04 décembre 2009 - 05:37 .

[Jacks-Up]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

\\\\\\\\

Was very surprised when I picked...I don't know if we had a future dialogue...Alistair starts talking about Grey Wardens not being able to have children...we don't have to have children, etc. then you can pick I don't want to give up or one other one and have a hopeful responce...in which he says...you're worth it. Play around with it and pick your favorite responce.

I am going actually restart after the tent scene and see if Alistair will approach me on the what happens next subject on his own.

Yes they can you can knock up Morrigan without doing that ritual thing so I don't know where he's getting that from he's not firing blanks.

It's almost impossible for two grey wardens to have children together. It's not as hard for a grey warden and someone who is not a grey warden...hence Morrigan with child.

Almost impossible is not Impossible. Also anyone know the reason why never bothered to find out.

[ekkaja.marta]

I have a question, since I can see you worked out lots of possible endings

I finished my first playthrough with my Dalish elf, never hardened Alistair, never made him king and accepted Morrigan's proposal. At the end we were still together and I had my happy ending.

Is it also possible when you harden Alistair, or does he always make himself a king at Landsmeet. What if you choose Anora instead, how Alistair reacts? I'd love to play with hardened Alistair next time but I'd prefer not to make him a king.

[TanithAeyrs]

I played as a Dalish elf and never hardened Alistair, I did accept the necessity of his rejection after Landsmeet (after all he will need a legitimate heir). I ended up as his chancellor but I assume that he still had to marry and have a child with someone else. My Dalish elf was honorable enough to not want him to cheat on marriage vows- so bittersweet ending. I played the last part of the game allowing that love had slightly corrupted my oh so honorable elf. She convinced Alistair to go through with Morrigan's ritual and then stayed on as chancellor knowing that she could never have him back, but unwilling to lose him altogether.



On another note the Kaiden romance in ME is well done and similar to the Alistair romance in some ways (although Kaiden is more mature). Both of my Sheps were very much in love with Kaiden by the end.

[SleepyBird]

I played as Dalish elf, made Alistair king, and sacrificed myself for him and the greater good in the end. So sad. I just couldn't accept Morrigan's deal.



I considered the option of talking Alistair into taking the deal with Morrigan, but his arguments against it were just so hilarious and justified that I couldn't bear to force/persuade him into it.



Actually on my first play-through, I didn't know to leave Alistair at the gates, and naively thought that if I told him to go stand on the other side of the roof and made sure I got the killing blow on the dragon that I would be the one to die but NO! The sorry bugger has to go and start a cut scene where he sacrifices himself for me, which was terribly sweet of him but puts the backstabbing b**** on throne, and left me all alone and empty inside. I just couldn't accept that as the end of the story, so I replayed the final battle, leaving Alistair at the gates this time.



Sad though it may have been, I felt most satisfied with self sacrifice ending, especially since the epilogue infers that Alistair is a much better ruler than Anora would have been. There are at least three times in dialog trees (two with Alistair, one with Wynn) where the impossibility of our having a future as a couple is discussed, always with the implication that duty and the good of the kingdom are more important than love. So I really just felt that I had to keep true to his noble nature, and my own sense of honor, and die to save him. Our love didn't add up to a hill of beans in this crazy world… yeah, I've seen Casablanca too many times…

[galesong1234]

ekkaja.marta wrote...

I have a question, since I can see you worked out lots of possible endings
I finished my first playthrough with my Dalish elf, never hardened Alistair, never made him king and accepted Morrigan's proposal. At the end we were still together and I had my happy ending.
Is it also possible when you harden Alistair, or does he always make himself a king at Landsmeet. What if you choose Anora instead, how Alistair reacts? I'd love to play with hardened Alistair next time but I'd prefer not to make him a king.

Unhardened Al doesn't want to be king. Thus, you don't have the conflict of having to persuade Alistair to stay with you.

Alistair as king unhardened Playing Elf or Dwarf
You cannot become queen.  However, you could become is chancellor. Other problem is that he feels he needs to produce an heir to the throne (Morrigan's child doesn't count) and you're not nobility.  I have not been able to persuade Alistair (I've tried about every dialogue option) to stay with  my pc's (Human Noble or  Elf) with Alistair Unhardened. Both my pcs coersion was maxed and I had a cunning of 48.

Hardened Alistair Playing Elf or Dwarf
During my play as a Dalish Elf, Alistair automatically jumped at being king and there wasn't an option of even picking Anora (she went to the tower). Then it went right to the dumping scene. Now Alistair could have wanted to become king because of my dialogue choices with Anora, the Earl and Alistair before Landsmeet. I don't know because I didn't realize how important a part the dialogue played in the Landsmeet.  I had mostly picked I didn't want to discuss it.

I can tell you for sure that the only chance I had to remain with Alistair (playing Elf) once he was king was to persuade him.  The only way I have been able to persuade Alistair is when he is hardened (both as elf and human noble).

Personally, I prefer Hardened Alistair. He is much more grown up and way more romantic. Becuase instead of saying I don't know if we can be together he is telling you that he won't let you go no matter what. For me, I plan to harden Alistair ASAP.  Hardened Alistair is much more willing to listen to you.  However, you still have to be quick on your feet with the dialogue options to save your relationship once Alistair is king.

Unhardened Alistair Playing Human Noble Female
My second game as human noble female I chose not to harden Alistair. The world is yours. You can pretty much choose what future you want especially if your coersion is maxed and have high cunning stats. You can choose for alistair to marry Anora (haven't played that option yet); Alistair to become king and you queen; Anora to become queen; etc.

The pitfall for me is when I  chose for Alistair to become king only (I didn't persuade to become queen). Unhardened Alistairs has scruples and he wouldn't cheat on me or his future queen.  And if he is king he wants an heir. I tried every dialogue option and was unable to persaude unhardened Alistair in staying with my human noble pc. In fact, I played out that sad scenario to the very end. Talk about depressing.

My question for all who have played? Once Alistair has become king, has anyone managed to persuade Alistair to stay with you when Alistair is not hardened?

Modifié par galesong1234, 05 décembre 2009 - 03:48 .

[galesong1234]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Inakhia wrote...

And that's another thing that bugs me about the endings...Alistair's got a commoner mother...Anora is a commoner(her raise up the ranks was only because of her father's miltary success but there wasn't any royal blood)...yet the only way I can sit on the throne is if I'm of royal blood. Loghain even says that his position and title was won through his career and service to the kingdom...I just saved the bloody kingdom from darkspawn and the archdemon...and you mean I can't marry Alistair as a commoner and Anora can(how many archdemon's has Loghain slain?)...geez.

Once Alistair becomes king (unless you persuade him to remain in a relationship with you) he will end relationship for two reasons: can't produce an heir and/or you are not a noble. If you're playing a human noble and you don't elect yourself to become queen or persade him to stay in relationship with you; he will dump you because you can't produce heir and he refuses to cheat on you or his future queen. Dumb-ass king.

[galesong1234]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

[
:DI actually bought Dragon age to get my mind off Kaidan from Mass Effect. I was writing fanfic and everything.

As for your installation issues...you might google your specific error or look on the ME website(technical forum or FAQs) to see if anyone else had the same issues. Can your computer handle two games that size...I'm assuming that your loading it up without uninstalling Dragon Age. I've got both of them on mine but I've got quite a bit of space(learned my lesson when I couldn't install Witcher...went back and upgraded...haven't had problems since).

If you get it running I think you'll like it. It doesn't have as much dialog as DAO but it's a great game. Your character even talks...something I really missed in DAO. If you romance Kaidan check out the overlook scene in the citadel. It's easy to miss. Once you get to the citadel you can't do any side quests in the game or the scene disappears from the game. Kaidan accidently flirts with Shepard and winds up putting his foot in his mouth.

 It wasn't until about my fourth playthrough until I found out about it and I actually found it on youtube first rather than in game. I don't like the look of the Shepard in it but if you don't mind being spoiled the url is

www.youtube.com/watch

My video card won't support Mass Effect even though I can play DAO. So will have to play on husbands work computer .

This is truely sad...I bought ME to get away from Alistair an you bought DAO to get away from Kaidan. So did you think Alistair was man enough to get your mind off Kaiden? I'm kind'a curious about this Kaidan guy now....cuz I really like alistair.

I felt ill running to Zev after being dumped by Alistair.  Like I totally betrayed or love or something.

Modifié par galesong1234, 05 décembre 2009 - 04:27 .

[galesong1234]

The voice of Alistair - Steve Valentine



He also plays Nigel on Crossing Jordan

Modifié par galesong1234, 05 décembre 2009 - 05:22 .

[MICHELLE7]

galesong1234 wrote...


My video card won't support Mass Effect even though I can play DAO. So will have to play on husbands work computer .

This is truely sad...I bought ME to get away from Alistair an you bought DAO to get away from Kaidan. So did you think Alistair was man enough to get your mind off Kaiden? I'm kind'a curious about this Kaidan guy now....cuz I really like alistair.

I felt ill running to Zev after being dumped by Alistair.  Like I totally betrayed or love or something.

I like Alistair a lot and he's a good distraction however I would choose Kaidan over Alistair in a heartbeat...Kaidan is a hopeless romantic. I couldn't see him ever agreeing to sleep with someone like Morrigan or dumping you to produce an heir or because you were and elf (or alien in his case).

Kaidan is different than Alistair in the fact that he way smarter and a lot more politically savvy. He doesn't joke as much(although the dialog between him and Ashley in Chora's den is fun...it's not automatic though...you have to click on the character for it to play). I guess they're similar in their inexperience with women. I don't think Kaidan is a virgin like Alistair but he's been hurt in his past and with as much confidence he has with everything else he's shy around women.

If you looked at the scene from youtube(maybe you didn't...some people don't like being spoiled but that scene is so easy to miss) you'll notice after he puts his foot in his mouth he becomes extremely uncomfortable and later is barely able to look at Shepard when he addresses her...he's bashful to the end. You can also change him as well but the change doesn't really affect the relationship with him if you play it right...it just allows you to play a more evil(or renegade)character without him disapproving of you(which they ME does through conversation rather than approval points).

As for Zevran...I have a hard time romancing him after Alistair as well...for me I think it's because you have to wait for him to show up...by the time he's gets there I've already been talking with Alistair to the point the romance is already in full swing...it's hard to change gears.

I will say this though...on my male character I kept both Leliana and Zevran on the line without ever choosing and was surprised at Zevrans' ending. I had heard he went back and became the leader of the Crows in one of them but I didn't know that on one of them(and this is the one I got) that even though the Crows tried to set him up with woman after woman he never accepted any of them and it said he never loved again. I thought "wow"...I guess ole Zevran fell hard. It was one of the ultimate sacrifice endings.

I also liked the ultimate sacrifice ending where Alistair leaves the Wardens and disappears because he's pining away for his lost love...beats him ruling with Anora anyday.