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[Addai]

errant_knight wrote...

Really? Goldana softened? On my last playthrough, I had all my coercion and had cunning at around 43 or 46, can't remember which, and I got none of that on the same persuade. Do you remember what your cunning level was?

I'm trying to recall which character this was, but I do believe it was my HNF cunning-based rogue.  Edit:  Sorry, I don't remember my stats exactly.  Just remember being shocked.  I sometimes wonder if they build some randomness into responses?

Modifié par Addai67, 04 mars 2010 - 07:42 .

[SurelyForth]

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Really? Goldana softened? On my last playthrough, I had all my coercion and had cunning at around 43 or 46, can't remember which, and I got none of that on the same persuade. Do you remember what your cunning level was?

I'm trying to recall which character this was, but I do believe it was my HNF cunning-based rogue.  Edit:  Sorry, I don't remember my stats exactly.  Just remember being shocked.  I sometimes wonder if they build some randomness into responses?

My boyfriend got the "softer" Goldanna once and his cunning was less than 30 (plus three levels of coercion). I've gone in with 40 cunning and maxed coercion and never gotten anything but mean, mean bitter Goldanna.

With that said, Alistair can help Goldanna if he wants. My HN's charity is reserved for Amethyne.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 04 mars 2010 - 07:45 .

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Really? Goldana softened? On my last playthrough, I had all my coercion and had cunning at around 43 or 46, can't remember which, and I got none of that on the same persuade. Do you remember what your cunning level was?

I'm trying to recall which character this was, but I do believe it was my HNF cunning-based rogue.  Edit:  Sorry, I don't remember my stats exactly.  Just remember being shocked.  I sometimes wonder if they build some randomness into responses?

I think I'll have to go back and replay my last couple of levels, making sure to put it all into cunning, and see what happens. I might be able to get it up to fifty. Defintitely will if I take a break to do the Shale quest and ust that loot. Very interesting, indeed! It would be nice to give Alistair a slightly less awful end to his hopes, and the possibility of contact with his nieces and nephews. It's not like he's likely to have children of his own, not matter which ending one picks.

SurelyForth wrote...

My boyfriend got the "softer" Goldanna once and his cunning was less than 30 (plus three levels of coercion). I've gone in with 40 cunning and maxed coercion and never gotten anything but mean, mean bitter Goldanna.
 

This is getting more and more opaque! How baffling.

Modifié par errant_knight, 04 mars 2010 - 07:50 .

[Addai]

SurelyForth wrote...
My boyfriend got the "softer" Goldanna once and his cunning was less than 30 (plus three levels of coercion). I've gone in with 40 cunning and maxed coercion and never gotten anything but mean, mean bitter Goldanna.

With that said, Alistair can help Goldanna if he wants. My HN's charity is reserved for Amethyne.

See, I do think there is some randomness to it.  Now that you say this, I wonder if it wasn't my mage character instead, who doesn't have any more cunning than Fade bonuses.  Strange.  I guess this helps re-playability, to have little surprises like that.

[pudi0072000]

I've always gotten that response and my cunning is always at 20, but it's on the 4th skill tree branch...

[Addai]

It seems, then, that Nice Goldanna is sort of like Axemeter. Which I have YET, in 8 or 9 playthroughs, to see.

[Sandtigress]

I've played through the Goldanna scene a dozen times and never seen her soften the least bit...weird.



What does she say when she "softens"?

[Freckles04]

Interesting. A softer Goldanna? Wow. I must see that!

[Sandtigress]

*pokes people who have seen this mysterious creature called "softer" Goldanna*

[Addai]

Sandtigress wrote...

*pokes people who have seen this mysterious creature called "softer" Goldanna*

Oh!  Sorry, I was dumping on grandmotherly mages. 

Uh... softer Goldanna.... let's see.  I did the Persuade check expecting the usual snorting derision.  Instead she stops, untenses a little, then says (in a milder tone of voice) something like "maybe so, but I can't think about things like that now, I've got 5 mouths to feed" etc.  Alistair, without any prompting, says in a heartfelt voice (again paraphrased from memory), "Goldanna, I promise you that I will help you in whatever way I can..."  It's not warm fuzzies, it still revolves around money, but is slightly less grating than the usual.

Modifié par Addai67, 05 mars 2010 - 12:05 .

[Sandtigress]

Hmmm...I'm still not sure if what I've seen after using that persuade check is any softer or not...I might have to experiment with it some more and see.



Thanks. :-)

[byronb23]

I also got that result, i was at the 4th level of coercsion with only 16 cunn. I tried it with my first character at level 3 coer. and didnt get the same response

[Sandtigress]

lol Maybe I just don't find "softer" Goldanna to be any less of a harpy than normal Goldanna....I still want to cut her tongue out!

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

*pokes people who have seen this mysterious creature called "softer" Goldanna*

Oh!  Sorry, I was dumping on grandmotherly mages. 

Uh... softer Goldanna.... let's see.  I did the Persuade check expecting the usual snorting derision.  Instead she stops, untenses a little, then says (in a milder tone of voice) something like "maybe so, but I can't think about things like that now, I've got 5 mouths to feed" etc.  Alistair, without any prompting, says in a heartfelt voice (again paraphrased from memory), "Goldanna, I promise you that I will help you in whatever way I can..."  It's not warm fuzzies, it still revolves around money, but is slightly less grating than the usual.

Hmm... I'll go replay that now. It's possible that happened last time, but I just didn't register it as such.

[Sandtigress]

Reading that again, I've never gotten Alistair to talk about helping the family without prompting. So I don't think I've ever heard "softened" Goldanna. Makes me want to take my cunning rogue back through there and do it again. It probably is like Axameter though...Someone needs to take a video!

[errant_knight]

Okay, I don't think I got the 'softer' Goldanna, unless that's what I usually get and didn't find it all that nice. I did the persuade, and she says what use is it to her with five mouths to feed. I've had that before, but then she gets all harpy again, in previous go throughs. This time I picked the king line, which I hadn't done before. Alistair aid 'Thanks for reminding me', then promised to do everything he could to help her. This time when we left, Alistair didn't call her a harpy or say that he was sorry he gave her money. He said he supposed he kept his promise, which I took to mean finding her, but that he'd expected to be just accepted. That actually made the hardening line make a lot more sense, because it explained why Goldanna was more concerned about her self and her children than welcoming her brother.

I have to try more things with this,but I'm thinking that the differences in this scene relate not only to your persuade, but to Alistair acknowledging that he's going to be king, and the PC not saying that she's just after his omoney..

Modifié par errant_knight, 05 mars 2010 - 01:27 .

[Sandtigress]

I almost always got the "kept my promise" line, even using the persuade option, and never using the "you're going to be king" option. I don't know what I'm doing to change it - I think it has to do with what your final choices are. It seems to me, from memory, that if he asks to leave, you get the "kept my promise" line. If you tell him that you should go, then he talks about her being a harpy and what not. That's my recollection, anyways, which may or may not be actually accurate.

[SurelyForth]

Softer Goldanna also says something about "A royal bastard is still a bastard", so she also acknowledges that Alistair might not of had the greatest life.So generous, that one.

[Freckles04]

I might not have done the persuade check on my cunning rogue. I don't always, since that usually leads to Alistair asking for money and I don't want to drop 15g on that harpy! Ugh. I'll have to load up Bryn and see if I have a save point near Goldanna.

[Sandtigress]

I definitely have NOT seen softer Goldanna then. I would bet my cunning rogue didn't use the persuade check, cause she has a temper on her. She's the only one so far who took advantage of that "cut your tongue out" line to Goldanna's face...I'll have to get her over to Denerim and try it out!

[errant_knight]

SurelyForth wrote...

Softer Goldanna also says something about "A royal bastard is still a bastard", so she also acknowledges that Alistair might not of had the greatest life.So generous, that one.

Ah! Definitely never heard that!  Glad I tried some other things, though. The money exchange is actually kind of worth it to have the hardening line make better sense, and Alistair is pretty awesome and kingly when promisiing to help her in any way he can. Still have to see this softer Goldana, though. I wonder what triggers it?

Modifié par errant_knight, 05 mars 2010 - 05:12 .

[Sandtigress]

Well....four levels of coercion + 30 cunning is not sufficient to get "softened" Goldanna... And unfortunately, for my cunning rogue, I have no save points with the quest undone other than that one. She's near a level though, maybe somehow 33 cunning will work? I doubt it. :-P I'm thinking its random!

Modifié par Sandtigress, 06 mars 2010 - 06:58 .

[errant_knight]

Sandtigress wrote...

Well....four levels of coercion + 30 cunning is not sufficient to get "softened" Goldanna... And unfortunately, for my cunning rogue, I have no save points with the quest undone other than that one. She's near a level though, maybe somehow 33 cunning will work? I doubt it. :-P I'm thinking its random!

I've gone away to do some DLC before trying again. By the time I finish Warden's Keep, I should have cunning of at least 50 and full coercion. If that doesn't do it, I think we can rule out cunning being a component. I know people have gotten it with a much lower cunning score, but if cunning is a factor at all, it should guarantee the scenario at some point.

I'm actually starting to lean toward a complicated set of circumstances based on seemingly minor choices in earlier parts of the game. If it was random, you'd think I'd have gotten it at least once by now, given how many times I've been through that scene. Someone could rule that out if they get softened Goldana, by playing it again immediately. If they don't get it again, it must be at least partially random.

A combination of specific choices, and certain stats, with a random element might explain the exceeding rareness.

Modifié par errant_knight, 06 mars 2010 - 07:49 .

[SurelyForth]

I just tried it with 55 cunning and full coercion- nothing. I then tried it with 12 cunning and no coercion- also nothing. Then I went with my normally specced character- 25 cunning and 3 coercion and...nothing.

On a related note, Goldanna sucks.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 06 mars 2010 - 08:03 .

[Arundor]

I was curious about this so I checked it out in the toolset.  According to what I found there, you can only get the "bastard is still a bastard" line if your character is male.  Females don't get the line.  I'm not sure why the writers would set it up that way, but it's what the toolset seems to indicate.

The conversation plays out like this:


(if PC is male):
PC:   Goldanna, Alistair came here hoping to find his family.
Goldanna:  Well... so he's found it. I'm his sister. But what are you to me, boy, except the one who took my mother away, hmm?
Alistair:  You think I wished her dead? I never wanted that. I didn't have the life you think I did, Goldanna.
Goldanna:  Sigh. I suppose not. A bastard is still a bastard, isn't he? But... brother or no, I've got five mouths to feed and no time to spare until they are.

(if PC is female)
PC:   Goldanna, Alistair came here hoping to find his family.
Goldanna:  Well, he found it. And what good is that to me? None, that's what, unless he can see to it that his family lives as it should!

Modifié par Arundor, 06 mars 2010 - 08:19 .