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The Weapon that killed/disabled a Reaper


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#26
Sgt Stryker

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Doofe2012 wrote...

Skullheart wrote...

That was a shot from the Death Star from Star Wars.

Star Wars happened in a far galaxy a long time ago. A stupid imperial gunnery tried to shoot like a cowboys and missed.

We know that Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a **** in space. The shoot from the DS keep travelling through the universe until it came to the Milky Way and hitted a poor reaper.

Newton's laws don't apply to energy, though, just actual objects with mass. Then again, I have no idea if a Death Star blast would keep going and going in empty space or not.


Depends. Is it a true laser, or something else entirely?

#27
Someone With Mass

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Doofe2012 wrote...
Newton's laws don't apply to energy, though, just actual objects with mass. Then again, I have no idea if a Death Star blast would keep going and going in empty space or not.


For the same reason that the Thanix doesn't have unlimited effective range: (probably due to energy dispersion) Nope. Sorry.

#28
Doofe2012

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@ Sgt Stryker

Been a while since I've read anything SW-related, but yeah, I think the Death Star's super cannon was a true laser.

@ Someone with mass

Well, the Thanix Cannon is a curious thing. The codex says it's not actual directed energy; it's molten metal shot in a stream traveling at a fraction of light speed. Since it's technically matter, I don't see why the Thanix wouldn't have unlimited theoretical range in an empty vaccuum.

#29
FoxShadowblade

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It's the only weapon capable of bringing down an advanced electronic system, and it's in EA's pants.

It starts...with an 'O'

#30
Someone With Mass

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Doofe2012 wrote...

@ Someone with mass

Well, the Thanix Cannon is a curious thing. The codex says it's not actual directed energy; it's molten metal shot in a stream traveling at a fraction of light speed. Since it's technically matter, I don't see why the Thanix wouldn't have unlimited theoretical range in an empty vaccuum.


I don't think it just spits out molten alloys. Not in such a nice and straight line. Probably has more to do with some sort of electromagnetism or something that can keep the stream going like that at those speeds. 

Then again, I'm basing that on the scene at the battle of the Citadel where Sovereign fires at the ships. Just before the molten metal hits, it appears that Sovereign is "painting" the ships with a red beam of some kind and then the metal hits while staying within that red beam.

Could might as well be for cool effect, but I've seen weirder stuff.

#31
Guest_aLucidMind_*

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FoxShadowblade wrote...

It's the only weapon capable of bringing down an advanced electronic system, and it's in EA's pants.

It starts...with an 'O'

An orangutan? :P

#32
DiebytheSword

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

My money's still on it being Omega...


Quite the theory, however, I believe TIM is after Omega due to its proximity to the Omega 4 Relay, and thus the collector base (or its remnants).  I often wonder if there is more to Omega than there appears to be on the surface.

#33
didymos1120

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Someone With Mass wrote...

I don't think it just spits out molten alloys. Not in such a nice and straight line. Probably has more to do with some sort of electromagnetism or something that can keep the stream going like that at those speeds. 


Well, yes, it does just spit out molten metal.   But it also shapes and accelerates the "rounds":

Contrary to popular belief, Sovereign's main gun was not a directed energy weapon. Rather, its massive element zero core powered an electromagnetic field suspending a liquid iron-uranium-tungsten alloy that shaped into armor-piercing projectiles when fired. The jet of molten metal, accelerated to a fraction of the speed of light, destroys targets by impact force and irresistible heat.


Modifié par didymos1120, 26 novembre 2011 - 10:17 .


#34
Guest_Mr.X.Pen_*

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DiebytheSword wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

My money's still on it being Omega...


Quite the theory, however, I believe TIM is after Omega due to its proximity to the Omega 4 Relay, and thus the collector base (or its remnants).  I often wonder if there is more to Omega than there appears to be on the surface.

He did say they found the weapon and the target but I really remember how far it is from Omega. But if it they did find it to be Omega then why did TIM not mention it as it is something big worth noting?Posted Image

#35
Harmless Citizen

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Because TIM never reveals all the intel he has?

#36
Dean_the_Young

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TMA LIVE wrote...

Bet if you were preparing for a war, you should try to make more of those.

Too bad I bet TIM isn't that smart, nor willing to give that kind of weaponry to the Council.

I'm fairly sure you don't understand the concept of a 'white elephant' project.

#37
TMA LIVE

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Bet if you were preparing for a war, you should try to make more of those.

Too bad I bet TIM isn't that smart, nor willing to give that kind of weaponry to the Council.

I'm fairly sure you don't understand the concept of a 'white elephant' project.


If you're telling me it's expense is too costly for a war over surivival, expecially over an object that we know nothing about besides that it's defunct, and that it's a mass accelerator, I'd say you don't understand the concept of "desperate times" and "make a less costly version, or research it to create something similar but effective", and "not enough info to make a cost judgement".

If TIM released not only information on the Reapers, but the dead Reaper itself and the weapon that took it out, then the Council would be making them for the sake of survival, money be damned.

#38
TMA LIVE

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111987 wrote...

That weapon is basically a huge version of a dreadnaught's main gun. Except it it likely planet-based, meaning its size isn't limited by the size of the starship. While it could be useful, because it's stationary it is a very easy target.


It wouldn't be easy if you need to be facing the exact part of a planet to attack it, while also needing to go through a fleet of ships to get at it. And that's the case of having just one.

#39
Dean_the_Young

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TMA LIVE wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Bet if you were preparing for a war, you should try to make more of those.

Too bad I bet TIM isn't that smart, nor willing to give that kind of weaponry to the Council.

I'm fairly sure you don't understand the concept of a 'white elephant' project.


If you're telling me it's expense is too costly for a war over surivival, expecially over an object that we know nothing about besides that it's defunct, and that it's a mass accelerator, I'd say you don't understand the concept of "desperate times" and "make a less costly version, or research it to create something similar but effective", and "not enough info to make a cost judgement".

If TIM released not only information on the Reapers, but the dead Reaper itself and the weapon that took it out, then the Council would be making them for the sake of survival, money be damned.

Now I know you don't understand the concept of a White Elephant project, especially in terms of warfare. Or the economies of war.

You're probably the sort of strategy player who builds super-heavy tanks only.

#40
Someone With Mass

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Dean_the_Young wrote...Now I know you don't understand the concept of a White Elephant project, especially in terms of warfare. Or the economies of war.

You're probably the sort of strategy player who builds super-heavy tanks only.


When the enemy is larger than most skyscrapers, I think that's a necessity.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 26 novembre 2011 - 02:42 .


#41
TMA LIVE

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Bet if you were preparing for a war, you should try to make more of those.

Too bad I bet TIM isn't that smart, nor willing to give that kind of weaponry to the Council.

I'm fairly sure you don't understand the concept of a 'white elephant' project.


If you're telling me it's expense is too costly for a war over surivival, expecially over an object that we know nothing about besides that it's defunct, and that it's a mass accelerator, I'd say you don't understand the concept of "desperate times" and "make a less costly version, or research it to create something similar but effective", and "not enough info to make a cost judgement".

If TIM released not only information on the Reapers, but the dead Reaper itself and the weapon that took it out, then the Council would be making them for the sake of survival, money be damned.

Now I know you don't understand the concept of a White Elephant project, especially in terms of warfare. Or the economies of war.

You're probably the sort of strategy player who builds super-heavy tanks only.



If you claim you know better, then why don't you say why exactly an object we know barely anything about is a white elephant project, instead of doing your usual thing, and acting with the whole superiority complex thing?

#42
Dean_the_Young

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Someone With Mass wrote...

When the enemy is larger than most skyscrapers, I think that's a necessity.

Even in the hey-day of heavy tanks, light/medium tanks were dominant. It's the same difference between heavy infantry and light infantry: they serve different roles.

The same applied to Dreadnaughts in the naval conflicts. No nation has ever one a naval war on the number of battleships or dreadnaughts they had: it was the lesser vessels produced in numbers that win the wars.

#43
111987

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TMA LIVE wrote...

111987 wrote...

That weapon is basically a huge version of a dreadnaught's main gun. Except it it likely planet-based, meaning its size isn't limited by the size of the starship. While it could be useful, because it's stationary it is a very easy target.


It wouldn't be easy if you need to be facing the exact part of a planet to attack it, while also needing to go through a fleet of ships to get at it. And that's the case of having just one.


Actually it would still be very easy. A Reaper could just bombard the gun from space, and since their main guns are at least twice the strength of a dreadnaught, that's about a megaton of force they can unleash every 5 seconds. You don't have to be hyper accurate with those kind of rounds.

Plus, it's not like fleets have ever stopped the Reapers from just plowing through before.

#44
Dean_the_Young

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TMA LIVE wrote...

If you claim you know better, then why don't you say why exactly an object we know barely anything about is a white elephant project, instead of doing your usual thing, and acting with the whole superiority complex thing?

Let's start by the fact that there was only one of them. Ever, as far we can tell, with no other known species having left any sign of a similar one. Not a mass-producible weapon, especially given the scale and power requirements..

Then let's go by how it broke itself. On it's first shot. Meaning it had one, and only one, chance to hit a Reaper before it destroys itself.

Then let's go by numbers. One shot per canon means that if you want a strategy that relies on Super-Gun, you will need at least as many super-guns as there are Reapers... meaning thousands, even with perfect accuracy.

The galaxy can't even build thousands of dreadnaughts, that don't break themselves in each shot.

Of course, we can also reflect on the blatantly obvious over-capacity. The Klendagon Canon was a world-shattering gun, which includes all the power and material requirments that such power necessitates. But you don't need that much power to kill a Reaper. We saw it with the battle with Sovereign, which was being worn down by a diversified conventional fleet.

It is only effective against a single target, while it can still be destroyed by lesser Reaper ships that would be a 'waste' to use it against. It becomes the classical too-valuable-to-use weapon short of actual Reaper dreadnaughts, despite being vulnerable to lesser Reaper and indoctrinated forces.



It is over-designed without reliability. It has extreme design excess. It's cost is going to be extremely disproportionate to it's effect. It can't be produced in great enough numbers. It is disproportionately costly without disproportionate endurance or reusability.

And, of course, it's a centralized target which can only affect one target until destroyed, as opposed to spreading out the costs over a number of smaller, less disastrous losses, that can be recouped and re-used against more targets.




And you're confused about why it has the hallmarks of a White Elephant?

#45
Harmless Citizen

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Actually, we don't really know how much power it takes to kill a reaper. Nazara/Sovereign was completely ignoring the fleets the majority of the time. It was taken down after Saren's defeat caused some sort of (unexplained) disruption.

Had it gone in on active offence, there's a fair chance the combined fleets would have failed anyhow.

#46
Someone With Mass

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111987 wrote...

Plus, it's not like fleets have ever stopped the Reapers from just plowing through before.


Actually...nah, never mind.

#47
111987

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Someone With Mass wrote...

111987 wrote...

Plus, it's not like fleets have ever stopped the Reapers from just plowing through before.


Actually...nah, never mind.


Well, so far as we seen up to ME3. I don't know anything beyond that.

#48
Someone With Mass

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111987 wrote...

Well, so far as we seen up to ME3. I don't know anything beyond that.


Yeah, I was about to tell something I found in the script regarding a planet description, but that'd be a spoiler.

#49
Dean_the_Young

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Random Nobody wrote...

Actually, we don't really know how much power it takes to kill a reaper. Nazara/Sovereign was completely ignoring the fleets the majority of the time. It was taken down after Saren's defeat caused some sort of (unexplained) disruption.

Had it gone in on active offence, there's a fair chance the combined fleets would have failed anyhow.

Sovereign < Citadel Fleet was established by Vigil, and by Sovereign's own actions. First by waiting centuries and trying to gather allies rather than an active offensive, and then by trying to blitz-open the Citadel culminating in the Avatar-gambit-that-failed.

Sovereign's actions in ME1 fit the profile (again, established by Vigil) that it's best chance to outlast the organics was to open the Citadel Relay and call in reinforcements, not active offensive. Even the Paragon-weakened Alliance fleet was overwhelming it, hence why it would take the Direct Control gambit with Saren's corpse.

#50
Someone With Mass

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Actually, Vigil referred to the combined forces of the galaxy, not just the Citadel fleet.

Sovereign could've probably destroyed the fleet with ease if he was aiming for that.