137 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

You know what? Never mind.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 26 novembre 2011 - 11:10 .

[TMA LIVE]

And Dean, if I really was a moderator, I wouldn't be giving you a heads up on your actions.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 26 novembre 2011 - 11:06 .

[Dean_the_Young]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Insults again.

You know what? Never mind.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 26 novembre 2011 - 11:10 .

[Dean_the_Young]

TMA LIVE wrote...

And Dean, if I really was a moderator, I wouldn't be giving you a heads up.

If you were really a moderator, you wouldn't deserve the position.


And with that, feel free to take the last word if you want it. This conversation is over.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 26 novembre 2011 - 11:11 .

[TMA LIVE]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Insults again.

Yes, because when I am falsely accused of threatening people with physical violence or of trolling character boards, I am insulting you.

So very, very badly.

Threatening people? I remember you angry at someone who accused you of being a custer. But that was for the right reasons, since that person did a personal attack on you. You shouldn't have been called that. And even then, I don't remember you doing threats or whatever.

You're misunderstanding, but you want to drop this. So I'll drop it.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 26 novembre 2011 - 11:25 .

[111987]

TMA LIVE wrote...

111987 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Like I said. If they did destroy it and left it, they considered it useless for whoever found it. And that argument I can buy. They didn't clear out everything, and left things behind like the ruins on Feros.

If they didn't destroy it, and it did destroyed itself, or only had the resources for one shot. In this case, nothing's to say the remains can't be studied to make a new version that won't destroy itself, or one that'll have the resources to fire again, unless it's so old or damaged that nothing can be gained.

The technology already exists, it's just a matter of organic species not needing a gun that big.

For example, modern nukes are generally no more than 20 megatons of force, but if we wanted to, we could have 50, or even 100 megaton nukes (if not more).

Then all we need to know is the right kind of fire power needed to shoot one down, and build for it.

If you believe one Reaper can be taken out multiple war ships, then we need something more powerful.

If you're saying we need multiple war ships to take out one ship out of thousands, then we're already screwed. And as the intro to Earth proves, that is the case. And it also means we don't have the fire power of one ship to eliminate one ship, like the Reapers do.

If we did, we'd stand a better chance. But we don't. Researching that defunct weapon could give an answer, if it's not destroyed enough to figure that out. Or studying the shot the Reaper took, to learn what's needed to damaged it.

It's not as easy as you make it out to be. There's no way of knowing how much firepower is needed to take out a Reaper until we actually destroy one through conventional means first. By that time the war will be raging in full force, and creating multiple superguns is much harder to do, if it's even possible. After all most of the homeworlds of Council races are under attack. They'll notice you building guns several kilometers long.

So honestly, I'm not sure what your plan/goal is here.

[Dean_the_Young]

Constructing more pylons.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Actually, Vigil referred to the combined forces of the galaxy, not just the Citadel fleet.

Sovereign could've probably destroyed the fleet with ease if he was aiming for that.

No kidding. It took all that trouble to kill him when he wasn't even trying to fight them.

[TMA LIVE]

111987 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

111987 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Like I said. If they did destroy it and left it, they considered it useless for whoever found it. And that argument I can buy. They didn't clear out everything, and left things behind like the ruins on Feros.

If they didn't destroy it, and it did destroyed itself, or only had the resources for one shot. In this case, nothing's to say the remains can't be studied to make a new version that won't destroy itself, or one that'll have the resources to fire again, unless it's so old or damaged that nothing can be gained.

The technology already exists, it's just a matter of organic species not needing a gun that big.

For example, modern nukes are generally no more than 20 megatons of force, but if we wanted to, we could have 50, or even 100 megaton nukes (if not more).

Then all we need to know is the right kind of fire power needed to shoot one down, and build for it.

If you believe one Reaper can be taken out multiple war ships, then we need something more powerful.

If you're saying we need multiple war ships to take out one ship out of thousands, then we're already screwed. And as the intro to Earth proves, that is the case. And it also means we don't have the fire power of one ship to eliminate one ship, like the Reapers do.

If we did, we'd stand a better chance. But we don't. Researching that defunct weapon could give an answer, if it's not destroyed enough to figure that out. Or studying the shot the Reaper took, to learn what's needed to damaged it.

It's not as easy as you make it out to be. There's no way of knowing how much firepower is needed to take out a Reaper until we actually destroy one through conventional means first. By that time the war will be raging in full force, and creating multiple superguns is much harder to do, if it's even possible. After all most of the homeworlds of Council races are under attack. They'll notice you building guns several kilometers long.

So honestly, I'm not sure what your plan/goal is here.

I'm just saying, if they're taking out the Alliance, and pushing the Turians back as is, and they're the biggest fleet in the galaxy, then better fire power or a way to disable their defenses is the way to go.

You're telling me we can't look at the remains of a reaper as a way to tell how it's defenses can be taken out without doing some serious damage to the fleet? Like Sov or that dead Reaper? Or studying what kind of blasts are needed to do it, and where a reaper can be hurt the most?

I also suggested these things being built before the wars even happens, if Cerberus actually showed the Dead Reaper to the Council.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 27 novembre 2011 - 02:14 .

[TMA LIVE]

Also, with a weapon like that, you could shoot Mass Relays from afar, creating the same super nova that could wipe out a system. A whole Reaper fleet can be taken out from afar if an asteroid could cause the same effect. Depending of the systems you're willing to sacrifice.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 27 novembre 2011 - 02:32 .

[111987]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I'm just saying, if they're taking out
the Alliance, and pushing the Turians back as is, and they're the
biggest fleet in the galaxy, then better fire power or a way to disable
their defenses is the way to go.

You're telling me we can't look
at the remains of a reaper as a way to tell how it's defenses can be
taken out without doing some serious damage to the fleet? Like Sov or
that dead Reaper? Or studying what kind of blasts are needed to do it,
and where a reaper can be hurt the most?

I also suggested these
things being built before the wars even happens, if Cerberus actually
showed the Dead Reaper to the Council.

Of course better firepower and a way to defeat ther defenses would be great, but this is a very inefficient way of doing it and in all likelihood would doom us if we relied on these guns to win the war. You also didn't address the other points I made which are all very damning towards this idea.

I'm not sure what your question is. Yes we need to look at the remains of Reapers to find ways to get past their defenses, but Sovereign and the Derelict Reaper have given us all they are going to. We will have to kill a Reaper via conventional means to see how much energy their shields can take, and THEN start building weapons; otherwise, we might over or understimate the size of the gun.

Cerberus couldn't have shown the Council the Reaper, because their team was indoctrinated and then the Reaper was destroyed. For all we know, after Cerberus was done they would have informed the Alliance. That's what they did on Freedom's Progress and Horizon after all.

TMA LIVE wrote...

Also, with a weapon like that, you could shoot Mass Relays from afar, creating the same super nova that could wipe out a system. A whole Reaper fleet can be taken out from afar if an asteroid could cause the same effect. Depending of the systems you're willing to sacrifice.

What????? Not to be rude but this makes absolutely zero sense.

Modifié par 111987, 27 novembre 2011 - 04:37 .

[Eckswhyzee]

111987 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I'm just saying, if they're taking out
the Alliance, and pushing the Turians back as is, and they're the
biggest fleet in the galaxy, then better fire power or a way to disable
their defenses is the way to go.

You're telling me we can't look
at the remains of a reaper as a way to tell how it's defenses can be
taken out without doing some serious damage to the fleet? Like Sov or
that dead Reaper? Or studying what kind of blasts are needed to do it,
and where a reaper can be hurt the most?

I also suggested these
things being built before the wars even happens, if Cerberus actually
showed the Dead Reaper to the Council.

Of course better firepower and a way to defeat ther defenses would be great, but this is a very inefficient way of doing it and in all likelihood would doom us if we relied on these guns to win the war. You also didn't address the other points I made which are all very damning towards this idea.

I'm not sure what your question is. Yes we need to look at the remains of Reapers to find ways to get past their defenses, but Sovereign and the Derelict Reaper have given us all they are going to. We will have to kill a Reaper via conventional means to see how much energy their shields can take, and THEN start building weapons; otherwise, we might over or understimate the size of the gun.

Cerberus couldn't have shown the Council the Reaper, because their team was indoctrinated and then the Reaper was destroyed. For all we know, after Cerberus was done they would have informed the Alliance. That's what they did on Freedom's Progress and Horizon after all.

TMA LIVE wrote...

Also, with a weapon like that, you could shoot Mass Relays from afar, creating the same super nova that could wipe out a system. A whole Reaper fleet can be taken out from afar if an asteroid could cause the same effect. Depending of the systems you're willing to sacrifice.

What????? Not to be rude but this makes absolutely zero sense.

What he's trying to say is that you could use your "Klendagon cannon" to shoot your system's mass relay, causing an explosion like the one in Arrival and presumably destroying a lot of Reapers.

Personally I don't think planet based defenses would be a good idea. The field of fire from a planetside gun will be smaller than that of a ship-based weapon. Not to mention you can easily maneuver a ship, whereas a planet spins rather predictably.

[111987]

Eckswhyzee wrote...

111987 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I'm just saying, if they're taking out
the Alliance, and pushing the Turians back as is, and they're the
biggest fleet in the galaxy, then better fire power or a way to disable
their defenses is the way to go.

You're telling me we can't look
at the remains of a reaper as a way to tell how it's defenses can be
taken out without doing some serious damage to the fleet? Like Sov or
that dead Reaper? Or studying what kind of blasts are needed to do it,
and where a reaper can be hurt the most?

I also suggested these
things being built before the wars even happens, if Cerberus actually
showed the Dead Reaper to the Council.

Of course better firepower and a way to defeat ther defenses would be great, but this is a very inefficient way of doing it and in all likelihood would doom us if we relied on these guns to win the war. You also didn't address the other points I made which are all very damning towards this idea.

I'm not sure what your question is. Yes we need to look at the remains of Reapers to find ways to get past their defenses, but Sovereign and the Derelict Reaper have given us all they are going to. We will have to kill a Reaper via conventional means to see how much energy their shields can take, and THEN start building weapons; otherwise, we might over or understimate the size of the gun.

Cerberus couldn't have shown the Council the Reaper, because their team was indoctrinated and then the Reaper was destroyed. For all we know, after Cerberus was done they would have informed the Alliance. That's what they did on Freedom's Progress and Horizon after all.

TMA LIVE wrote...

Also, with a weapon like that, you could shoot Mass Relays from afar, creating the same super nova that could wipe out a system. A whole Reaper fleet can be taken out from afar if an asteroid could cause the same effect. Depending of the systems you're willing to sacrifice.

What????? Not to be rude but this makes absolutely zero sense.

What he's trying to say is that you could use your "Klendagon cannon" to shoot your system's mass relay, causing an explosion like the one in Arrival and presumably destroying a lot of Reapers.

Personally I don't think planet based defenses would be a good idea. The field of fire from a planetside gun will be smaller than that of a ship-based weapon. Not to mention you can easily maneuver a ship, whereas a planet spins rather predictably.

OH! My mistake; I thought he meant the cannon would fire Mass Relays...

Yes that could work, but since Reapers are attacing centers of civilizations, blowing up the Mass Relay will kill everyone in that system too.

[Homebound]

111987 wrote...

That weapon is basically a huge version of a dreadnaught's main gun. Except it it likely planet-based, meaning its size isn't limited by the size of the starship. While it could be useful, because it's stationary it is a very easy target.

are you saying there is a planet-sized cannon out there floating around outside citadel space?

how about making a planet that devours reapers?

[111987]

Hellbound555 wrote...

111987 wrote...

That weapon is basically a huge version of a dreadnaught's main gun. Except it it likely planet-based, meaning its size isn't limited by the size of the starship. While it could be useful, because it's stationary it is a very easy target.

are you saying there is a planet-sized cannon out there floating around outside citadel space?

how about making a planet that devours reapers?

That is definitely not what I said. Planet-based does not mean 'planet-sized'.

[TMA LIVE]

111987 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I'm just saying, if they're taking out
the Alliance, and pushing the Turians back as is, and they're the
biggest fleet in the galaxy, then better fire power or a way to disable
their defenses is the way to go.

You're telling me we can't look
at the remains of a reaper as a way to tell how it's defenses can be
taken out without doing some serious damage to the fleet? Like Sov or
that dead Reaper? Or studying what kind of blasts are needed to do it,
and where a reaper can be hurt the most?

I also suggested these
things being built before the wars even happens, if Cerberus actually
showed the Dead Reaper to the Council.

Of course better firepower and a way to defeat ther defenses would be great, but this is a very inefficient way of doing it and in all likelihood would doom us if we relied on these guns to win the war. You also didn't address the other points I made which are all very damning towards this idea.

I'm not sure what your question is. Yes we need to look at the remains of Reapers to find ways to get past their defenses, but Sovereign and the Derelict Reaper have given us all they are going to. We will have to kill a Reaper via conventional means to see how much energy their shields can take, and THEN start building weapons; otherwise, we might over or understimate the size of the gun.

Cerberus couldn't have shown the Council the Reaper, because their team was indoctrinated and then the Reaper was destroyed. For all we know, after Cerberus was done they would have informed the Alliance. That's what they did on Freedom's Progress and Horizon after all.

TMA LIVE wrote...

Also, with a weapon like that, you could shoot Mass Relays from afar, creating the same super nova that could wipe out a system. A whole Reaper fleet can be taken out from afar if an asteroid could cause the same effect. Depending of the systems you're willing to sacrifice.

What????? Not to be rude but this makes absolutely zero sense.

What doesn't make sense? In Arrival one fast moving rock destroyed a Relay, which killed the system. Imagine if a Reaper fleet was there. You take them out as well.

Considering this weapon was able to hit a Reaper from past the Centery System to Thorne, I'd say you could do the same, if you set it up right.

And what other points? That they'll noticed guns being made from afar? If thay can do that, then they can also see Ship factories from afar, and take them out too. The difference is, ship factories are already made and making ships heading straight towards a target. While a canon the Reapers would have to travel towards, past fleets and defenses which have already been made, and continue being made. If you're telling me they can get past all those before one canon is finished, then the war was over before it began. Canon or no canon.

If you're don't believe it's a good idea to research and make canons during the war, then I'd say that's debatable depending on the resources and time that needs to make them.

But we already have a weapon to base ideas on a year before the war begins. We already could be making those as well as ships. All TIM had to do was show off the Reaper he found, instead of keeping it to himself, only for Shepard to blow it up later. There's so much that could have been learned from it. But no, he kept it to himself.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 27 novembre 2011 - 05:22 .

[Homebound]

111987 wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

111987 wrote...

That weapon is basically a huge version of a dreadnaught's main gun. Except it it likely planet-based, meaning its size isn't limited by the size of the starship. While it could be useful, because it's stationary it is a very easy target.

are you saying there is a planet-sized cannon out there floating around outside citadel space?

how about making a planet that devours reapers?

That is definitely not what I said. Planet-based does not mean 'planet-sized'.

you thinking too small bro.

how about a weaponized star with planet-sized cannons orbiting around it?

[111987]

TMA LIVE wrote...

111987 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I'm just saying, if they're taking out
the Alliance, and pushing the Turians back as is, and they're the
biggest fleet in the galaxy, then better fire power or a way to disable
their defenses is the way to go.

You're telling me we can't look
at the remains of a reaper as a way to tell how it's defenses can be
taken out without doing some serious damage to the fleet? Like Sov or
that dead Reaper? Or studying what kind of blasts are needed to do it,
and where a reaper can be hurt the most?

I also suggested these
things being built before the wars even happens, if Cerberus actually
showed the Dead Reaper to the Council.

Of course better firepower and a way to defeat ther defenses would be great, but this is a very inefficient way of doing it and in all likelihood would doom us if we relied on these guns to win the war. You also didn't address the other points I made which are all very damning towards this idea.

I'm not sure what your question is. Yes we need to look at the remains of Reapers to find ways to get past their defenses, but Sovereign and the Derelict Reaper have given us all they are going to. We will have to kill a Reaper via conventional means to see how much energy their shields can take, and THEN start building weapons; otherwise, we might over or understimate the size of the gun.

Cerberus couldn't have shown the Council the Reaper, because their team was indoctrinated and then the Reaper was destroyed. For all we know, after Cerberus was done they would have informed the Alliance. That's what they did on Freedom's Progress and Horizon after all.

TMA LIVE wrote...

Also, with a weapon like that, you could shoot Mass Relays from afar, creating the same super nova that could wipe out a system. A whole Reaper fleet can be taken out from afar if an asteroid could cause the same effect. Depending of the systems you're willing to sacrifice.

What????? Not to be rude but this makes absolutely zero sense.

What doesn't make sense? In Arrival one fast moving rock destroyed a Relay, which killed the system. Imagine if a Reaper fleet was there. You take them out as well.

Considering this weapon was able to hit a Reaper from past the Centery System to Thorne, I'd say you could do the same, if you set it up right.

And what other points? That they'll noticed guns being made from afar? If thay can do that, then they can also see Ship factories from afar, and take them out too. The difference is, ship factories are already made and making ships heading straight towards a target. While a canon the Reapers would have to travel towards, past fleets and defenses which have already been made, and continue being made. If you're telling me they can get past all those before one canon is finished, then the war was over before it began. Canon or no canon.

If you're don't believe it's a good idea to research and make canons during the war, then I'd say that's debatable depending on the resources and time that needs to make them.

But we already have a weapon to base ideas on a year before the war begins. We already could be making those as well as ships. All TIM had to do was show off the Reaper he found, instead of keeping it to himself, only for Shepard to blow it up later. There's so much that could have been learned from it. But no, he kept it to himself.

Sorry; I misunderstood you. I thought your idea was to use the cannons to fire the Mass Relay's at the Reapers. That would indeed work.

The main point I made that makes the cannon idea very unlikely is that almost all major worlds are being targetted. It would be very difficult to build a super weapon whilst the Reapers are devastating your world. The construction could take several weeks, by which it would be too late.

And no, a Reaper could just bombard the cannon from orbit, because it is stationary. Ships are much harder to target.

Well ME3 is actually just 6 months after ME2, but I take your point. Regardless as I said before, it wasn't really TIM's fault for what happened at the Reaper. For all we know he very well could have planned on showing it to the Alliance after he got there first and had a leg up on the other races.

[TMA LIVE]

Eckswhyzee wrote...

What he's trying to say is that you could use your "Klendagon cannon" to shoot your system's mass relay, causing an explosion like the one in Arrival and presumably destroying a lot of Reapers.

Personally I don't think planet based defenses would be a good idea. The field of fire from a planetside gun will be smaller than that of a ship-based weapon. Not to mention you can easily maneuver a ship, whereas a planet spins rather predictably.

Exactly. Lots of people would still die regardless, unless you somehow led the Reapers into a system without people before taking the shot. Definitely something that would need planning. Otherwise, I'd consider it a nuke situation times 100 if you'd rather sacrifice more lives to take out beaten systems taken over by Reapers.

A ship or station can still be taken out faster then a planet. And speed doesn't really matter unless they can fly as fast or faster then the Normandy. Like what happened with the Collector attack. Protection, defense, or keeping it hidden would be the only thing to protect such a thing. The only real advantage is a better chance to hit muliple targets, since it's not limited by the direction the planet is facing.

But what makes you think a canon on a planet would be smaller then one on a ship?

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 27 novembre 2011 - 05:39 .

[marstor05]

the thing is you are all thinking way too big - the reapers will have planned for an attack by big weapons so it would make perfect sense to develop a really small weapon with minimal payload which could target individual systems of the reaper ship,or even the mass effect core itself. something like a nanovirus, or even modified insects adapted to carry reaper neutralising technology that would make the ship vulnerable to attack.

[111987]

marstor05 wrote...

the thing is you are all thinking way too big - the reapers will have planned for an attack by big weapons so it would make perfect sense to develop a really small weapon with minimal payload which could target individual systems of the reaper ship,or even the mass effect core itself. something like a nanovirus, or even modified insects adapted to carry reaper neutralising technology that would make the ship vulnerable to attack.

You still have to get around their shields; no matter how small the weapon, it can't slip past the shield.

[Mustachio Tom Selleck]

Use a 37 million year old defunct weapon as a blueprint to defeat the reapers? Surely you jest.

[DiebytheSword]

Recreating the Klendagon Cannon would be an enormous waste of eezo for a one shot, one reaper weapon.

[Someone With Mass]

DiebytheSword wrote...

Recreating the Klendagon Cannon would be an enormous waste of eezo for a one shot, one reaper weapon.

Then again, it's probably not using eezo in that manner.

Much like how the eezo nodes in biotic people don't deplete.