Saphra Deden wrote...
You're a glass is half full kind of guy aren't you SMW?
At least I'm not a raging hypocrite.
Character rumors
Débuté par
Ticktank
, nov. 26 2011 01:10
-
Ce sujet est fermé
- Show only BioWare posts
#26
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 01:49
Someone With Mass
-
- Members
- 38 560 messages
At least I'm not a raging hypocrite.
Retour en haut
#27
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 01:50
Chala
-
- Members
- 4 147 messages
YES I know that since months ago... (In fact everyone must know this by now). But it's not bad having dreams, you know?Cthulhu42 wrote...
You don't get replacements. I swear, I've had to tell far too many people that.El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...
Don't like her in ME3?
Let her die in ME2, it's a very simple and effective method.
Hell, maybe you can even get Kal'reegar as a replacement
#28
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 01:52
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
-
- Guests
It's too bad. A limited number of replacements for certain character deaths would have actually provided some extra content to people who lost squadmates on the SM.
#30
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 01:54
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
-
- Guests
Why would you expect extra content for being a poor leader? If Shepard can't handle the SM, he/she shouldn't get compensated for his/her failure.Saphra Deden wrote...
It's too bad. A limited number of replacements for certain character deaths would have actually provided some extra content to people who lost squadmates on the SM.
Modifié par Cthulhu42, 26 novembre 2011 - 01:55 .
#31
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 01:54
Xilizhra
-
- Members
- 30 873 messages
So, let me get this straight.
Bioware wants people to like their game.
Bioware makes a decision to bring in a character that many people like, so that they'll like the game more.
Other people this is some kind of hideous violation of artistic integrity.
I honestly don't get this.
Bioware wants people to like their game.
Bioware makes a decision to bring in a character that many people like, so that they'll like the game more.
Other people this is some kind of hideous violation of artistic integrity.
I honestly don't get this.
#32
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 01:56
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
-
- Guests
Cthulhu42 wrote...
Why would you expect extra content for being a poor leader?
...because I expect that every player should be entitled to the same amount of fun.
#33
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 01:57
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
-
- Guests
Xilizhra wrote...
So, let me get this straight.
Bioware wants people to like their game.
Bioware makes a decision to bring in a character that many people like, so that they'll like the game more.
Other people this is some kind of hideous violation of artistic integrity.
I honestly don't get this.
Well to clarify: Tali and Garrus were brought back for ME2 even though it derailed Garrus' characterization and development and neither of them had anything to do with the main plot.
#35
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 01:58
Ticktank
-
- Members
- 570 messages
Making Garrus/Tali have no replacements in ME3 is yet another indirect way of pandering to their fans. They died in ME2? Too bad, the game is harder for you now.
And I think the 'hypocracy' goes both ways. Seriously...if it were e.g. Thane & Miranda being permanent squadmates and BW said that they're replaceable with the Dextros if killed, the Talimancers will be putting crap like "Miranda is dying for meh Tali" on their signature and telling it to the world.
And I think the 'hypocracy' goes both ways. Seriously...if it were e.g. Thane & Miranda being permanent squadmates and BW said that they're replaceable with the Dextros if killed, the Talimancers will be putting crap like "Miranda is dying for meh Tali" on their signature and telling it to the world.
#36
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:00
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
-
- Guests
True, you'll never please everybody. So I say don't devote so much emphasis on it in the first place. Tell the story you want to tell.
#37
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:00
Xilizhra
-
- Members
- 30 873 messages
Bringing Garrus into ME2 didn't derail his characterization/development. Arguably the manner in which he was introduced did, but this wasn't guaranteed; he could have had something catastrophic and possibly Collector-related happen to him on the Citadel when he was at C-SEC/Spectre training and realized that he had to be a part of saving the galaxy again because things were still terrible. As for anything to do with the main plot... only Jacob, Miranda and Jack had anything to do with the Cerberus plot and only Mordin was even tangentially related to the Collectors (Okeer would have been, but Grunt is one step removed too many).Saphra Deden wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
So, let me get this straight.
Bioware wants people to like their game.
Bioware makes a decision to bring in a character that many people like, so that they'll like the game more.
Other people this is some kind of hideous violation of artistic integrity.
I honestly don't get this.
Well to clarify: Tali and Garrus were brought back for ME2 even though it derailed Garrus' characterization and development and neither of them had anything to do with the main plot.
#38
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:02
Chala
-
- Members
- 4 147 messages
Now that you mention... I think that almost all squad members of ME2 doesn't had anything to do with the game's main plot. The only ones I recall are Mordin who develops a "shield" for the collector's bugs and MirandaSaphra Deden wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
So, let me get this straight.
Bioware wants people to like their game.
Bioware makes a decision to bring in a character that many people like, so that they'll like the game more.
Other people this is some kind of hideous violation of artistic integrity.
I honestly don't get this.
Well to clarify: Tali and Garrus were brought back for ME2 even though it derailed Garrus' characterization and development and neither of them had anything to do with the main plot.
Modifié par El_Chala_Legalizado, 26 novembre 2011 - 02:04 .
#39
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:02
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
-
- Guests
Aside from Mordin making the seeker swarm repellant, no squadmate had anything to do with the main plot, so that's fairly irrelevant.Saphra Deden wrote...
Well to clarify: Tali and Garrus were brought back for ME2 even though it derailed Garrus' characterization and development and neither of them had anything to do with the main plot.
Edit: ninja'd.
Modifié par Cthulhu42, 26 novembre 2011 - 02:03 .
#40
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:04
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
-
- Guests
Xilizhra wrote...
Bringing Garrus into ME2 didn't derail his characterization/development.
Yes it did. No matter how you mentored him in ME1 he winds up as the same person in the same place in his life in ME3. It means everything you did with him in ME1 was pointless.
Sure, a lot of things could have happened to keep him on track and also put him on the squad, but that didn't happen.
#41
Guest_franciscoamell_*
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:04
Guest_franciscoamell_*
Guest_franciscoamell_*
-
- Guests
I thought Isaacshep was named Isaac
#42
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:05
Xilizhra
-
- Members
- 30 873 messages
Thus it was the implementation that was the problem, not his being in ME2 itself.Saphra Deden wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Bringing Garrus into ME2 didn't derail his characterization/development.
Yes it did. No matter how you mentored him in ME1 he winds up as the same person in the same place in his life in ME3. It means everything you did with him in ME1 was pointless.
Sure, a lot of things could have happened to keep him on track and also put him on the squad, but that didn't happen.
#43
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:05
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
-
- Guests
Cthulhu42 wrote...
Aside from Mordin making the seeker swarm repellant, no squadmate had anything to do with the main plot, so that's fairly irrelevant.
Edit: ninja'd.
Thane is given motivation to participate in the mission. That's more what I'm talking about. Which characters have a good reason to be involved?
Miranda and Jacob have their dedication to humanity and it's their job.
Mordin starts off as more of a mcGuffin but later he explains his more personal motivation.
Thane is out to repent for his misdeeds.
The others have no reason reason to be there or they're just being paid, yes.
#44
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:08
Finis Valorum
-
- Members
- 664 messages
Xilizhra wrote...
Okeer would have been.
Ah.... what might have been having Okeer as a squadmate throughout ME2 and possibly into ME3 would have had such tremendous potential. Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly dislike (or like) Grunt but a well written Okeer might have easily become one of my favourite characters.
#45
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:08
Someone With Mass
-
- Members
- 38 560 messages
Ticktank wrote...
Making Garrus/Tali have no replacements in ME3 is yet another indirect way of pandering to their fans. They died in ME2? Too bad, the game is harder for you now.
And I think the 'hypocracy' goes both ways. Seriously...if it were e.g. Thane & Miranda being permanent squadmates and BW said that they're replaceable with the Dextros if killed, the Talimancers will be putting crap like "Miranda is dying for meh Tali" on their signature and telling it to the world.
Not really.
I was actually expecting Tali to be a partial squadmate because of the large number. Sure, I'd be a little disappointed that they couldn't handle the whole thing with the large amount of squadmates differently, but I'd live with it. Just like how I lived with Arrival being pretty much the only story bridging DLC and how some of the characters were sort of a letdown. Like Samara and Zaeed, or the way Legion was presented.
Then again, I wouldn't plead to your incredibly childish fantasies if I did that, now would I?
Modifié par Someone With Mass, 26 novembre 2011 - 02:10 .
#46
Guest_franciscoamell_*
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:15
Guest_franciscoamell_*
Guest_franciscoamell_*
-
- Guests
Other characters have good reasons to join:Saphra Deden wrote...
Cthulhu42 wrote...
Aside from Mordin making the seeker swarm repellant, no squadmate had anything to do with the main plot, so that's fairly irrelevant.
Edit: ninja'd.
Thane is given motivation to participate in the mission. That's more what I'm talking about. Which characters have a good reason to be involved?
Miranda and Jacob have their dedication to humanity and it's their job.
Mordin starts off as more of a mcGuffin but later he explains his more personal motivation.
Thane is out to repent for his misdeeds.
The others have no reason reason to be there or they're just being paid, yes.
Jack could either go with the Normandy or die in the purgatory.
Samara's life goal is to destroy the unjust, and the Collectors are pretty unjust.
Tali and Garrus go with Shepard because they trust him/her, know he/she needs them and Garrus and Tali owe Shepard for all the times Shep helped them.
Morinth needs to pay Shepard back if she was saved.So does Legion.
Grunt wants to fight, he's given a chance.
Therefore, in my opinion, the DLC characters are the only ones that were only there for the money and to have their problems solved.
#47
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:15
Guest_laecraft_*
Guest_laecraft_*
-
- Guests
Reminds me of that conversation they had during Q&A, when they asked the audience, "Who wants to see Tali's face, raise your hands." Then they asked who doesn't want to see it, and noted that the opinions were divided. "So," they said, "either way, we're going to ****** one of those groups off."
So whether Tali is a party member or not, it's fan pandering. The devs should just do their thing. But Tali fans are numerous. Perhaps they didn't want to ****** off the majority of their fan base. It's a minor thing, really. It doesn't really compromise creative vision.
It's not like they completely remade Cerberus into the main antagonist without bothering to give them any proper motivations because the majority of the fan base wanted to shoot TIM...right?
So whether Tali is a party member or not, it's fan pandering. The devs should just do their thing. But Tali fans are numerous. Perhaps they didn't want to ****** off the majority of their fan base. It's a minor thing, really. It doesn't really compromise creative vision.
It's not like they completely remade Cerberus into the main antagonist without bothering to give them any proper motivations because the majority of the fan base wanted to shoot TIM...right?
#48
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:19
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
-
- Guests
franciscoamell wrote...
Other characters have good reasons to join:
Jack could either go with the Normandy or die in the purgatory.
Jack has no reason not to jump ship the moment you dock at Omega/Ilium/Citadel/ect...
franciscoamell wrote...
Samara's life goal is to destroy the unjust, and the Collectors are pretty unjust.
That's pretty broad and thus uninteresting. Thane at least specifies that he is fighting to atone and to save the innocent colonists who have been taken. Samara just joins you to fulfill a promise you made to her that had nothing to do with the overall mission of stopping the Collectors.
franciscoamell wrote...
Tali and Garrus go with Shepard because they trust him/her, know he/she needs them and Garrus and Tali owe Shepard for all the times Shep helped them.
Already been covered.
Morinth needs to pay Shepard back if she was saved.So does Legion.
Boring.
Grunt wants to fight, he's given a chance.
Boring.
Therefore, in my opinion, the DLC characters are the only ones that were only there for the money and to have their problems solved.
Your opinion has been noted.
#49
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:24
Kaiser Shepard
-
- Members
- 7 890 messages
Now that would've been a proper decision, an early game one as well: rescue the warlord you came to Korlus for, or save his intended legacy.Finis Valorum wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Okeer would have been.
Ah.... what might have been having Okeer as a squadmate throughout ME2 and possibly into ME3 would have had such tremendous potential. Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly dislike (or like) Grunt but a well written Okeer might have easily become one of my favourite characters.
Of course, that would involve implementing actual choice/consequence, and lord knows we can't have that.
#50
Posté 26 novembre 2011 - 02:26
Seboist
-
- Members
- 11 984 messages
Okeer had the potential to be one of the greatest characters in ME. He left a damn good first impression in that brief exchange with him.
