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[MyNameIsPower]

So, after going around collecting armies, I arrived at the Landsmeet.  I had already talked to Anora and Alistair and pretty much cemented their marriage, or so I thought.

So Loghain comes in and blusters about as usual.  I had had it with him a long time ago.  I could not wait to finally meet him.  All the nobles were against him but one coward.

Let me say that I have refrained from reading too much about Loghain and his fate, although I did find out you can have him as a companion.  I didn't want to spoil things too much.

So after he is thoroughly drug through the mud with all the proof of his ill deeds, I get the option of dueling him or attacking him outright.  I guess that would have meant a battle with him and his guards vs. my group.  Well, I chose to go 1 on 1 with him.  Not only was it the honorable thing to do, but I had waited for this the entire game and I wanted to prove I was better than him.  It was personal.

It was really some duel ... I guess.  I was expecting an orange Loghain, but got yellow.  So, I stunned him, Death Marked him, then hit Pinpoint Strike.  Seconds later, it was over.  He never hit me once, though he did knock me down.  I was real happy.

Then I get this "I made a mistake, you're really something" ... or whatever.  I had been waiting for this moment as well.  Now I'm finally going to make you pay for what you have done.  So, I thought about it for a few minutes, then finally hit "you must die for your actions."

The grey warden stepped in and tried to save him with the ritual, but I was having none of it.  Even Anora wanted to try it, but I didn't care.  Alistair was right.  This guy tried to wipe the wardens out, now he may become one of us.  No thanks.

But there's an ever better reason. 

This guy sent dozens or hundreds of his minions to off me and I killed every one of them.  If Loghain would have been on the field, I would have removed his head from his shoulders.  He sent others to do his dirty work and they all paid for his bad judgement.  Ser Cauthien paid.  They all did.  Now, he says he was wrong and that makes everything ok?

No it does not.  Now justice is served.  The people of Ferelden are not going to see you walking around free to do as you wish, when you caused so much bloodshed, treachery and misery.

You are going to die, and things will be righted.  Some things are hard to do, but you must do them for the greater good.  I killed him myself, I did not have Alistair do it.  If I'm going to order a death, let it be at my hands.

So, anyway, I evidently didn't "harden" Alistair and he was really having doubts about being king.  Well, I made him marry Anora anyway.   I didn't want her on the throne alone.  Sorry, she has not been exactly forthright with me on occasion.  I wanted to tell Alistair he needed to make one more sacrifice and this was it.  He should know about sacrifices, after all he is a Grey Warden.  And yes, I'll be there to help you.  =D

So, that's where I'm at now. 

The little I've read, I'm guessing most people don't do it like this.

[caradoc2000]

There are good arguments both for and against Loghain and it is indeed up to you to role-play the situation as you see fitting your character.

Should you harden Alistair he'll accept becoming King (and another decision you'll come by a bit later) more easily. Also, Anora seems to be happier with a hardened Alistair.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

MyNameIsPower wrote...

The little I've read, I'm guessing most people don't do it like this.

Uh, no, actually you're pretty much expected to do it like this. Although more people seem to harden Alistair than not, I guess. But executing Loghain is meant to be the common path; sparing him is the exception (though you're not exactly "sparing" him in the sense that you're letting him walk about freely. You're conscripting him into an order he hates and forcing him to take orders from you). In DA2 he is only referred to as the General who died in ignominy at the time of the last Blight, though. I think a greater percentage of the people on these boards have conscripted him at least once, for the achievement if for no other reason, is why you might think that's the "usual" thing to do.

[Persephone]

MyNameIsPower wrote...

The little I've read, I'm guessing most people don't do it like this.

No. Sadly, most people do it exactly like that.

(Sorry, I am not fond of bloodlust and vengeance being presented as justice. To me they are FAR apart.)

[ShimmeringDjinn]

Persephone wrote...

MyNameIsPower wrote...

The little I've read, I'm guessing most people don't do it like this.

No. Sadly, most people do it exactly like that.

(Sorry, I am not fond of bloodlust and vengeance being presented as justice. To me they are FAR apart.)

Cousland kills Howe for vengeance, it's really no different.......

[Persephone]

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

Persephone wrote...

MyNameIsPower wrote...

The little I've read, I'm guessing most people don't do it like this.

No. Sadly, most people do it exactly like that.

(Sorry, I am not fond of bloodlust and vengeance being presented as justice. To me they are FAR apart.)

Cousland kills Howe for vengeance, it's really no different.......

Mine wouldn't if the game would let her.

And yes, a tactical retreat and a planned takeover are kinda different.

[Wulfram]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Uh, no, actually you're pretty much expected to do it like this. Although more people seem to harden Alistair than not, I guess.

I'd bet most people don't harden him on their first, unspoiled playthrough.  Since they wouldn't know it was possible, and the choices necessary can come off as a bit jerkish.

[ShimmeringDjinn]

Wulfram wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Uh, no, actually you're pretty much expected to do it like this. Although more people seem to harden Alistair than not, I guess.

I'd bet most people don't harden him on their first, unspoiled playthrough.  Since they wouldn't know it was possible, and the choices necessary can come off as a bit jerkish.

Agreed, I didn't harden him on my first playthrough.

[ShimmeringDjinn]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

MyNameIsPower wrote...

The little I've read, I'm guessing most people don't do it like this.

I think a greater percentage of the people on these boards have conscripted him at least once, for the achievement if for no other reason, is why you might think that's the "usual" thing to do.

Very likely, but I most certainly am not one of them. Makes me feel dirty just thinking about it *shudders*

[Get Magna Carter]

While I do not approve of the death sentence in real life my city elf girl had a bloodthirsty streak wherever her people were involved.
After meeting the King she hoped he could be encouraged to improve her people's lot - a hope dashed by Loghain's betrayal.
Loghain then put the cruel Howe in charge of the Denerim area including the alienage and it was Loghain who sold many elves into slavery (including my girl's father).
For these she could not forgive him.

To get the achievement I redid the ending ultimately letting Howe sacrifice himself but this was so against my elf-girl's wishes that I redid it with her making the ultimate sacrifice again to deny Loghain a chance to take the easy route to redemption.
It was the Loghain dead at Landsmeet ending that was imported into later products

Modifié par Get Magna Carter, 03 décembre 2011 - 10:29 .

[MyNameIsPower]

Persephone wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

Persephone wrote...

MyNameIsPower wrote...

The little I've read, I'm guessing most people don't do it like this.

No. Sadly, most people do it exactly like that.

(Sorry, I am not fond of bloodlust and vengeance being presented as justice. To me they are FAR apart.)

Cousland kills Howe for vengeance, it's really no different.......

Mine wouldn't if the game would let her.

Oh, really?  And what if every darkspawn "surrendered" when at the point of death, along with every Howe and Loghain guard and conspirator?

Your mentality puts you in quite a predicament.  Start building hundreds of prisons and tax the people to build them.

:/

[Persephone]

MyNameIsPower wrote...

Persephone wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

Persephone wrote...

MyNameIsPower wrote...

The little I've read, I'm guessing most people don't do it like this.

No. Sadly, most people do it exactly like that.

(Sorry, I am not fond of bloodlust and vengeance being presented as justice. To me they are FAR apart.)

Cousland kills Howe for vengeance, it's really no different.......

Mine wouldn't if the game would let her.

Oh, really?  And what if every darkspawn "surrendered" when at the point of death, along with every Howe and Loghain guard and conspirator?

Except that this is like comparing apples to oranges. :innocent:

[Persephone]

Get Magna Carter wrote...

While I do not approve of the death sentence in real life my city elf girl had a bloodthirsty streak wherever her people were involved.
After meeting the King she hoped he could be encouraged to improve her people's lot - a hope dashed by Loghain's betrayal.
Loghain then put the cruel Howe in charge of the Denerim area including the alienage and it was Loghain who sold many elves into slavery (including my girl's father).
For these she could not forgive him.

To get the achievement I redid the ending ultimately letting Howe sacrifice himself but this was so against my elf-girl's wishes that I redid it with her making the ultimate sacrifice again to deny Loghain a chance to take the easy route to redemption.
It was the Howe dead at Landsmeet ending that was imported into later products

So Howe and Loghain are interchangable or something?

[Persephone]

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

MyNameIsPower wrote...

The little I've read, I'm guessing most people don't do it like this.

I think a greater percentage of the people on these boards have conscripted him at least once, for the achievement if for no other reason, is why you might think that's the "usual" thing to do.

Very likely, but I most certainly am not one of them. Makes me feel dirty just thinking about it *shudders*

Killing a man in front of his child makes me feel way more ill at ease, just fyi.

[ShimmeringDjinn]

@Persephone.
May I ask what your Cousland would have done with Howe? (Had you not killed him)

[ShimmeringDjinn]

Persephone wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

MyNameIsPower wrote...

The little I've read, I'm guessing most people don't do it like this.

I think a greater percentage of the people on these boards have conscripted him at least once, for the achievement if for no other reason, is why you might think that's the "usual" thing to do.

Very likely, but I most certainly am not one of them. Makes me feel dirty just thinking about it *shudders*

Killing a man in front of his child makes me feel way more ill at ease, just fyi.

Oh really?......Yet you have zero problem with letting the murderer of your family go free? (IF the choice was available)
That is some......strange logic you have concidering Couslands father more or less DIED in front of her/him.........
But hey it's your game and your clearly sociopathic Warden......I'll be off now

Modifié par ShimmeringDjinn, 27 novembre 2011 - 07:20 .

[Persephone]

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

@Persephone.
May I ask what your Cousland would have done with Howe? (Had you not killed him)

She would have seen him captured and held for a trial AFTER the Landsmeet. No cloaks and daggers, this goes to the official channels and all of Ferelden will hear of it.

[ShimmeringDjinn]

Persephone wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

@Persephone.
May I ask what your Cousland would have done with Howe? (Had you not killed him)

She would have seen him captured and held for a trial AFTER the Landsmeet. No cloaks and daggers, this goes to the official channels and all of Ferelden will hear of it.

Well that's fair enough I suppose.

[Persephone]

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

Persephone wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

MyNameIsPower wrote...

The little I've read, I'm guessing most people don't do it like this.

I think a greater percentage of the people on these boards have conscripted him at least once, for the achievement if for no other reason, is why you might think that's the "usual" thing to do.

Very likely, but I most certainly am not one of them. Makes me feel dirty just thinking about it *shudders*

Killing a man in front of his child makes me feel way more ill at ease, just fyi.

Oh really?......Yet you have zero problem with letting the murderer of your family go free? (IF the choice was available)
That is some......strange logic you have concidering Couslands father more or less DIED in front of her/him.........
But hey it's your game and your clearly sociopathic Warden......I'll be off now

Don't put words in my mouth, alright? And kindly refrain from insulting me or my characters.

I never said I'd let Howe go free.

And it is BECAUSE my Warden saw her own father die that she will NEVER inflict that agony on another soul, no matter who.

And not killing someone makes my Warden sociopathic? Really? That redefines the word entirely without any sense.

[ShimmeringDjinn]

Persephone wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

Persephone wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

MyNameIsPower wrote...

The little I've read, I'm guessing most people don't do it like this.

I think a greater percentage of the people on these boards have conscripted him at least once, for the achievement if for no other reason, is why you might think that's the "usual" thing to do.

Very likely, but I most certainly am not one of them. Makes me feel dirty just thinking about it *shudders*

Killing a man in front of his child makes me feel way more ill at ease, just fyi.

Oh really?......Yet you have zero problem with letting the murderer of your family go free? (IF the choice was available)
That is some......strange logic you have concidering Couslands father more or less DIED in front of her/him.........
But hey it's your game and your clearly sociopathic Warden......I'll be off now

 And kindly refrain from insulting me or my characters.

Why? You do it with other people, simply because they don't like Loghain. That is why you are in this thread, is it not? Any way.......Loghain agreed to a duel to the death, Meaning someone will die. So I ask you......HOW is the Warden or Alistair wrong for hacking his head off?.....T'was perfectly legal.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Actually, the agreed-upon terms of the deal is until someone yields. *ducks out of line of fire*

Edit: You can find the dialogue at about 5:55 here.

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 27 novembre 2011 - 07:49 .

[ShimmeringDjinn]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Actually, the agreed-upon terms of the deal is until someone yields. *ducks out of line of fire*

I stand corrected then.
Still the man is not that stupid as to not know what would happen to him.

[Costin_Razvan]

Well good for you, you self-righteous hypocritical warden.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Actually, the agreed-upon terms of the deal is until someone yields. *ducks out of line of fire*

I stand corrected then.
Still the man is not that stupid as to not know what would happen to him.

He is not; I think he quite expects to die. He's certainly resigned enough to it once the battle's over. He most definitely would not have volunteered to join the Grey Wardens, even if he planned to sue for clemency. If you spare him, the first conversation you have in camp afterwards is basically him asking you "Okay, so here I am, weird as this whole situation is. What now?"

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 27 novembre 2011 - 07:53 .

[ShimmeringDjinn]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

Actually, the agreed-upon terms of the deal is until someone yields. *ducks out of line of fire*

I stand corrected then.
Still the man is not that stupid as to not know what would happen to him.

He is not; I think he quite expects to die. He's certainly resigned enough to it once the battle's over. He most definitely would not have volunteered to join the Grey Wardens, even if he planned to sue for clemency. If you spare him, the first conversation you have in camp afterwards is basically him asking you "Okay, so here I am, weird as this whole situation is. What now?"

But he doesn't volunteer to join the Wardens.......Does he? Was that not Riordan's Idea. I do not recall Loghain saying 'Hey don't kill me, I'll join you instead'....