22 réponses à ce sujet

[wyldhunt1]

We're building a new RP PW, and we want to make sure that players won't ignore it because of our hak choices.
So far, we've decided on PRC and CEP. I'm nearly finished merging them properly. I just need to update the phenotypes.2da and update the mdl's and such to preserve CEP horses and the PRC phenos.

I have two questions I'd like to ask:
1: Which popular haks do you already have downloaded? Do you have CEP 2.4? PRC? Project Q? CTP? Other?
   The more we can use haks that are common, the less the player needs to download. So, I figured I'd do some market research now instead of later.

2: I started a poll here to find out how much custom content a player is willing to download to try out a new roleplay pw. If you have an extra minute, it'd be amazingly helpfull to know what the average roleplayer thinks about haks.

Thanks to anyone who helps out.

[Aleron]

Let's see...

- CEP 2.3
- PRC 2.3? (I think that is the one)
- Worms Tileset Fun Stuff

Rest are custom haks for World Serpent Inn mostly. Kudos if you guys get PRC working, can say from experience it is a painful job to go through.
Hint: Improved Invisibility is PAINFUL if you go with the changed version the PRC introduces.

Anyway, good luck with your world!

Modifié par Aleron, 26 novembre 2011 - 07:40 .

[Alex Warren]

I have CEP 2.4, Project Q 1.3, PRC (~10 MB download, doh) and some PW specific haks.

- PRC 2.3? (I think that is the one)

You have PRC 3.4 on WSI ;p

Kudos if you guys get PRC working, can say from experience it is a painful job to go through.
Hint: Improved Invisibility is PAINFUL if you go with the changed version the PRC introduces.

o.O
...nvm...

I'm nearly finished merging them properly

May I ask what's wrong with the merge provided on PRC download site? Or why can't you just use that? I'll try to fix it if it's broken.

[Shadooow]

CEP 1
EDIT: actually I have also Project Q, but I dont use it in my modules because its too hardware-extensive and I havent seen any PW or module uses it yet

Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 26 novembre 2011 - 02:36 .

[The Amethyst Dragon]

I have currently loaded onto my computer:
CEP 2.4
PRC 1.4

And if I were to venture onto another PW, I'd download any custom haks needed, so long as the files were all easily available (from a single source or with a clear list of direct working links to the files).

[Pstemarie]

I have loaded on my system Project Q v1.5 and all of _Six's and Maxam's Tilesets. I also have MoreDoors and MoreTNOPlaceables.

The current LAN module I'm playing/building uses Project Q, Maxam's classic Dungeon, and a bunch of custom content stuff I've hashed out myself.

ShaDoOoW wrote...

actually I have also Project Q, but I dont use it in my modules because its too hardware-extensive...

Too hardware-extensive. I have it running on a pretty barebones system and haven't really noticed any major performance impact. My GPU is a GT240 with 1GB VRAM, I have an i3 550 3.2 GHz Quad-Core, 6 GB RAM, and nVidia Hi-Def onboard audio.

According to fraps I get 300-350 fps, which drops to 250-275 during big fights with lots of spells being flung around.

Modifié par Pstemarie, 26 novembre 2011 - 03:02 .

[Rolo Kipp]

<looking with dismay...>

I have, um <fires up windirstat>, 11.1gb of haks (60% of my NwN directory, which is 50% of my HD @_@ )

I do have CEP 2.4 and Project Q 1.4, along with CMP, most of CTP and especially the drool-worthy Babylon and Medieval city tilesets, and the absolutely necessary-to-me Seasonal Forest set.

In fact, OP IMO, tilesets (both according to my *own* little poll and my own requirements) assume the greatest download requirements - both the largest files and the greatest impact on, um, *flavor*.

What I'll actually *use* (once I get my systems built) is still up in the air, as I require not only quality, but the resources must suit my own bizarre little world :-P

Re your poll: Voted. And size may matter, but quality and atmosphere matter more.

Edit: P.s. I am *not* your average RPer :-P <word>

<...at Fibber McGee's Hak Closet>

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 26 novembre 2011 - 05:56 .

[omen_shepperd]

Right now I have 14.7 gig of just haks in my nwn folder. most are old CEP,CTP,haks with new CEP, PRC, Jenx, and a number of other random ones thrown in so I can play single player mods. I really got to clean up my folders Does this classify me as a NWN Hoarder?

[Rolo Kipp]

<nodding...>

Yup.

Not a *bad* thing, though... =)

<...vigorously>

[FunkySwerve]

You're not going to get a realistic sampling from the people on this board. If you're concerned about haks limiting access, I wouldn't use anything but CEP. We stopped at 2.3, since their updater stopped working.

I also have PRC, since we've ripped it apart on various occasions looking for skriptnuggets, vfx, svfx, and the like, but I've never actually used it, or even installed it in my NWN folder (it'd require way too much balancing work).

Basically, your choice comes down to either just using CEP, or using whatever you darn well please. I don't think there are any other breaks in the willingness of players to download hacks in between those two options. You lose a few if you use CEP, but not many. You lose more if you use anything else, but again, I don't think all that many. I think the players remaining, save for those just picking up NWN for the first time, don't have many issues with downloading additional files, if you are able to put them to good use, and demonstrate it in your advertising/forums.

Funky

[wyldhunt1]

So, it looks like CEP and PRC are fairly safe to use, although I notice that everyone seems to have different versions of them... Interesting.
CTP was mentioned a few times, which is good because we were hoping to use some (a lot) of their stuff.
LoW stuff looks good too, though I've never used it. Our builder was hoping to give his stuff a try.
Project Q looks like it's very cool, but large. We're already going to have CEP 2.4 and PRC 3.5. I'm unsure about adding Q since it would make our haks fairly obnoxiously large to download for anyone who doesn't have them. Although it looks like a few people do have Q already, they are in the minority.
My thoughts on our initial choice of CEP/PRC were that CEP is an obvious choice and popular. It adds a ton of placeable/item/NPC models for our builders. PRC adds just as much, but focused on the players to ensure that they have the extra freedom.

I still have our old mod with all of my custom systems, which will do an excellent job in helping us fine tune any balancing issues in any number of ways. Since PRC includes a fix which claims to bypass the limit on Const Vars, I should be able to re-implement all of my old systems with PRC/CEP.
But, I do want to use the newest versions of everything to ensure that we have as much content available as possible. That may mean that players will have to do a lot of updates.
Although, we are going to set up a custom hak updater to allow players to automagically update their haks through our servers. I haven't had a chance to test the viability of any of the pre-made community options for that yet. But, if they fail, I can quickly create my own to ensure that it is useable, easy, and never destroys old haks that players may need for other servers without their permission.

I also noticed that the community began monthly content challenges in my absence, and every one of them I've looked at are full of amazing work. I've considered adding a Challenge hak and filling it with all of the good stuff from those that we may find use for. Most of them are very small, so I believe I could get away with that.
How many of you have the challenge haks downloaded already? Would it be better if I left them in their original haks? I wasn't going to do that because it would mean downloading a ton of small haks as opposed to one single hak and being done.

@FunkySwerve
That's about the answer I was expecting. I'm just making sure that I'm not totally off base since I've been away from the community for so long. I've yet to get my old server back up so that I can get my old mod off of it. Compared to our current servers, it may as well be a week old pizza. No matter how many cables I plug in to it, it just sits there and promises tasty goodness that I know it doesn't have any more... Except the pizza I/O may be faster.

Anyway, thanks for the replies. This is all good stuff.
Important to keep track of what's popular.

Modifié par wyldhunt1, 27 novembre 2011 - 01:57 .

[henesua]

I modified an ancient PW to use:
Project Q 1.4. NWNCQ. Innumerable tilesets. And recompiled the old PW's haks, pruning out redundancies, and adding newer content.

For my own modules:
Project Q 1.4, Zwerkules' Biomines and Medieval city, six's wildlands and wildwoods, diademus's underdark spiders, maxam's classic dungeons and versatile dungeons, chadigar's gothic estates interiors, sen's shadow plane exterior. I also incorporated content from many haks across the vault picking and choosing selectively what I wanted. IZK's skies were nice as was the community skies pack, Feanor's Armoury was full of great stuff for example. Amethyst Dragon has scores and scores of really good haks available.

The way I look at it.. is that if you have a particular idea you wish to express, a particular theme or aesthetic you should tailor your HAKs to work for that. Be very selective, and don't include any content that you will not make much use of. Keep it as lean as possible, but the content should be exciting and beautiful. Don't settle for using content that kinda works.

[wyldhunt1]

Thanks for the advice Henesua.
I plan to get a lot of use out of your Light Shy Creatures AI, btw.
Thanks for posting it.

[Rolo Kipp]

<packing way too much stuff...>

wyldhunt1 wrote...
I also noticed that the community began monthly content challenges in my absence, and every one of them I've looked at are full of amazing work.
...
Would it be better if I left them in their original haks? I wasn't going to do that because it would mean downloading a ton of small haks as opposed to one single hak and being done.

Well, if you can wait a bit, The Spirited Lass is working up CCC Annual haks for 2010 & 2011...
:-)
Sure glad *I* didn't promise such a foolhardy thing <right. you get to do it *next* year>

Ouch.

<...in way too small a bag>

[wyldhunt1]

It's going to take me a while to get the tangled mess of phenos all working anyway. So, there is time. Between horses, dual wielding, and custom combat anims... all using the same pheno lines... I have my work cut out for me updating all of our capes and cloaks and such to work with the modified phenotypes.2da. Seeing as how I've never had a reason to work with an mdl before, (<---Programmer) it's a bit of an adventure trying to figure out the extent of what I need to change and how to change it.
That's probably fuel for a different thread though.

Modifié par wyldhunt1, 27 novembre 2011 - 02:06 .

[henesua]

wyldhunt1 wrote...
I plan to get a lot of use out of your Light Shy Creatures AI, btw.
Thanks for posting it.

You are welcome, but I would be careful with those lightshy behavior scripts. I think it should be rewritten. That was my first AI, and it can tbe expensive when you have more than 20 lightshy creatures in an area and a couple light sources.

My goal was to achieve this image in game play:
a dark cavern filled with a sea of hostile spiderlings swirling around a character in pajamas holding a candle aloft.

It wasn't able to get enough active spiders in an area all running that AI without running into some lag. 20 worked, but I wanted many many more. I think to make it work you need to really streamline the creature's AI.

[wyldhunt1]

Not intending to hijack my own thread(Is that even possible?)... or, maybe I am... Either way, I give myself permission...

I haven't looked at your scripts yet since I'm already in the middle of learning the fine art of mdl manipulation, but I plan to alter it to work with an existing system that I already have. Basically, items have certain variables on them. The OnEquip script checks for the variable and sets the var on the player. Then, I can check for that var in the OnPerception or HB very quickly and easily. I have spells hooked so I can add vars from casting spells also.
As long as our builder knows to keep NPC's with light sources away from the area, I can just do something like:

if (GetIsPC(oPercieved)&&GetLocalInt(oPercieved, "Bright")==1)
{
ExecuteLightShyAI;
}
 
That'll keep them from checking each other and should make it plenty fast.
Of course, I haven't seen the script yet. </OffTopic>
 
.... Back to the regular scheduled program... Nothing to see here...
 
Hak list, anyone?

Modifié par wyldhunt1, 27 novembre 2011 - 03:59 .

[Aleron]

Alex Warren wrote...

I have CEP 2.4, Project Q 1.3, PRC (~10 MB download, doh) and some PW specific haks.

- PRC 2.3? (I think that is the one)

You have PRC 3.4 on WSI ;p

My only excuse is that I'm on midnight shifts right now lol. What he said.

As for there always being different versions being used in different places, I think it has to do with preferences. In our case, We stayed at that version of CEP because we had already added in a great deal of what they did with our own haks (meaning it would be a collosal pain in the tuckus to try remove our haks and reintroduce the updated CEP). This is sort of the same for the PRC. We eventually had to pick a version to merge into the server and the time involved in the fixing it was so much it hasn't been worth updating to the next version.

[DMSelena]

Ha! Look at all these people willing to download custom content. I remember when Wyld and I had our last PW. I'd gone and done a massive amount of repair and combinulating of CEP with other things, fixed a number of core Bioware models that were bugged, and added my own custom stuff... all told the download was in the gigs. Bear in mind, this was largely because I was including CEP's content in our own haks. But, still. The players were some committed people to download all that, I tell you. And, if I recall correctly, several of them mentioned the size.

But this time, we're using the regular CEP and PRC, and Wyld is just making them play well together so as to spare people having to store 2 versions of all that on their hard-drive. I'd like to say it was worth it back then because we fixed so many problems concerning content redundancy and fuxxed up 2das, but it's hard to convey the importance of that to players who don't want to wait an hour to log in.

[Rolo Kipp]

<wheedling in the mistaken belief...>

Well, if you get *really* ambitious, you might think about writing a MOptimizer so your core hak only contains resources actually used, with an update hak that carries any enhancements...

<...he's cajoling>

[UrkOfGreyhawk]

I have more haks than I could ever use. Often I'll download and test a hak just so I can vote on it. In terms of what I use...

CEP
D20 Modern
classic Dungeons

I don't use Q because it's too small to stand on it's own and it's not CEP compatible.

[DMSelena]

Rolo Kipp wrote...

<wheedling in the mistaken belief...>

Well, if you get *really* ambitious, you might think about writing a MOptimizer so your core hak only contains resources actually used, with an update hak that carries any enhancements...

<...he's cajoling>

That's kind of what we ended up doing. What we host on the server is a different thing entirely from what we have to distribute to players. Even now my builder's mod contains a mostly empty CEP hak (that is to say, most of the blueprints have been removed because I detest blueprints in builder haks) and I'm just creating any blueprints we intend to use in game in the toolset. We are going to require that DMs and builders use the same lightweight haks so that we don't end up with the problem of DM's dropping hak'd blueprints. I don't like to make DM's have to remember to only use stuff in Special  or Custom or whatever. It's better if they can just browse the palette and drop whatever they see, knowing it will work fine and is acceptable to spawn in the world.

On  our last PW we had an update hak that we updated to different versions, but it became a real mess trying to track who had what, since you could login even if you didn't have the current version on accounta how the hak has the same name. Wyld tells me there's a plugin that can check for file attributes in the hak to make sure that the player's matches the server's, but I'm not sure if that's reasonable to expect people to have since it's a third-party program and I know people get a little squirrely about having third party programs that do stuff like access files on their harddrive.

- S.

[henesua]

UrkOfGreyhawk wrote...
I don't use Q because it's too small to stand on it's own and it's not CEP compatible.

While the later point is true, the first point is debatable (as a matter of opinion). My opinion is that since version 1.4, Q stands well on its own, but shines as a solid base upon which to add custom haks. It is very well organized, and every asset is desirable to use.

That Q is not compatible with CEP is accurate, although it can be made to be so without too much work.

However I am tired of the Q versus CEP debate. Its silly and counter productive. Aside from assuring that the projects are accurately presented to those making a choice between them, I think we can live and let live.