220 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Ho-ho-ho!


TV Tropes is reliable as Wikipedia is!


And we all know that Wikipedia is not reliable source of INFORMAAATIOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!

[Someone With Mass]

TV Tropes is just a place where people give funny names to certain situations or things.

Not to mention that you can look up the definition on other sites and cross-reference them with Wiki's.

It is a pretty well-known knowledge that Deus Ex Machina has no buildup and pretty much comes out of thin air. Hence the name, "God From The Machine"

It's when people and actors in the past literally pulled a "god" out of/with a machine to make it look like he/she came out of nowhere when entering the scene and then that god sets everything straight in the play and then disappears just as fast as he/she appeared.

But I digress.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 29 novembre 2011 - 08:06 .

[onelifecrisis]

I still think DEM is not so black-and-white as that.

In the thread where I debated this at some length recently, at least one person (who said the ME3 reaper solution does not qualify as a DEM) actually used Radiers of the Lost Ark as an example of a true DEM, in spite of the fact that in Act 1 of that film we see a picture (and hear a detailed description) of the Ark killing everyone with "lightning, fire, the power of god, or something" which makes it actually much less of a DEM than ME3's reaper solution (which has had nowhere near that level of foreshadowing).

[Morty Smith]

Bittersweet. Have piercing shades of despair and goodbye run along the light of hope and companionship.

Happy-Ever-After-You-Pay-The-Price.

[someone else]

"foreshadowing" has nothing to do with the DEM device - in Raiders it is only because the protagonists are totally unprepared for divine intervention - in the Odyssey, Odysseus is regularly rescued by the gods - usually by Athena from Posiedon - but it is consistent with the universe in which he lives.

A surprise is not necessarily a DEM - if the solution is a contrivance that violates the premises of the story-world we are in DEM country.

[Dilandau3000]

My guess is that the whole bit with dark matter causing that sun to prematurely age is going to factor into the Reaper's defeat somehow.

Then again, even a Deus Ex Machina ending needn't be bad, per se. Peter Hamilton's Night's Dawn trilogy ended with an almost literal DEM (it was a machine with god-like abilities), but it was a DEM that Hamilton had spent 3000 pages building up to. And by the end of the trilogy the antagonist had gotten so powerful that nothing short of a DEM could possibly stop him (the Reapers have nothing on him, I tell you). Yet despite the DEM ending, it's still amongst the best sci-fi I have ever read.

Modifié par Dilandau3000, 30 novembre 2011 - 03:09 .

[onelifecrisis]

someone else wrote...

"foreshadowing" has nothing to do with the DEM device

Try telling that to these guys:

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dexi wrote...

As I said, the plot device is foreshadowed...

Like in LotSB when Liara says that the former Shadow Broker was looking for more Prothean artifacts, for example.

Or perhaps the recently discovered chamber in the Prothean ruins on Mars.

FORESHADOWIIIIING...

[DiebytheSword]

So onelifecrisis, how would you resolve the plot?


I think I've asked you this before, but what the hey, I'm not debating you on what we vehemently disagree on again.

[onelifecrisis]

DiebytheSword wrote...

So onelifecrisis, how would you resolve the plot?


I think I've asked you this before, but what the hey, I'm not debating you on what we vehemently disagree on again.

I believe you've asked this before, and I've answered before: AFAIC, a DEM has been inevitable ever since ME2 totally failed to make good on Shepard's departing promise at the end of ME1:

"The reapers are coming, and I'm going to find a way to stop them."

That would have been good. Unfortunately BW decided to reboot part 1 of the trilogy instead of making part 2, thereby leaving all the "find a way" stuff to be dealt with later. It didn't help that ME2 simply reinforced the indestructibility of the reapers at every opportunity, rather than introducing (or even just retconning) some weaknesses for them.

Given this situation, the best they could do is introduce the DEM as early as possible in ME3. Which is what they have done, right?

In short: it's not what they're doing that bugs me, it's people saying it's not a DEM that bugs me... and people claiming that it's been foreshadowed by things that (a) are not remotely close to a foreshadow of anything and ( aren't even in the frickin game.

DEMs are not the kiss of death IMO. Hell, I loved Raiders, and still do. And by the sound of it, the DEM in ME3 isn't nearly as bad as it could be. But it's still a DEM, and some people aren't happy about that, and I object to them being told "it's not a DEM" by people who really don't know wtf they're talking about.

Edit:
(added strike-out)
Sorry, temper got the better of me again.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 30 novembre 2011 - 05:38 .

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

chaosomegas wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

I still think disabling the Relay network should be one of the ways you can "win".

so we do the reaper plan A
not forget reapers came from dark space in no more 5 years without mass relay.

111987 wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

I still think disabling the Relay network should be one of the ways you can "win".

That just prolongs the extinction cycle. Everyone would be trapped in their own systems.

Keep in mind Reapers can FTL throughout the galaxy without Mass Relays, albeit slowly. Then again, they are immortal, and time is meaningless to them.

True. It's a delay tactic that will buy some time. The way I ee it , if  the Council somehow (like the Protheans and what Matriarch Aethyta suggested) master mass relay tech or devise another way to traverse the Galaxy reasonably then they might stand a chance.
I just don't really care for some of the other ideas like any form of Deus Ex Machina or some contrivance like renegade Reapers whcih is just a copied variation of the Geth/Heretic  

[111987]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

111987 wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

I still think disabling the Relay network should be one of the ways you can "win".

That just prolongs the extinction cycle. Everyone would be trapped in their own systems.

Keep in mind Reapers can FTL throughout the galaxy without Mass Relays, albeit slowly. Then again, they are immortal, and time is meaningless to them.

True. It's a delay tactic that will buy some time. The way I ee it , if  the Council somehow (like the Protheans and what Matriarch Aethyta suggested) master mass relay tech or devise another way to traverse the Galaxy reasonably then they might stand a chance.
I just don't really care for some of the other ideas like any form of Deus Ex Machina or some contrivance like renegade Reapers whcih is just a copied variation of the Geth/Heretic  

The problem is the Reapers can travel the galaxy without mass relays, and unless the Citadel races make some quick advancements, they can't. Disabling the relay network would mean each species would eventually have to face the Reapers alone, and that would not end well for organic life. Even united the galaxy likely can't beat the Reapers through strength of arms alone.

[Eustacia]

Mesina2 wrote...

Ho-ho-ho!


TV Tropes is reliable as Wikipedia is!


And we all know that Wikipedia is not reliable source of INFORMAAATIOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!

Actually...90% (actually, probably more but that's just a rough estimate. We talked about this in my Composition class a few weeks back) of the time it is. Do you know how hard people work on that site? Some even pretend like they're getting paid to do it.

Modifié par Eustacia, 30 novembre 2011 - 06:38 .

[chaosomegas]

time weapon its put a time bubble around a reaper that speed up time to 10000yrs per sec

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Bioware: There is now a blue gun!

Fans: RUINED FOREVER!!!!

Bioware: The VS is back on the team...

Fans: RUINED FOREVER!!!!

Bioware: Ruined forever.

Fans: RUINED FORE---Wait what?

Bioware: Gotcha.

[chaosomegas]

lol nice

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

We challenge them to a rock battle and then win on a technicality, causing the reapers to commit suicide in shame.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 30 novembre 2011 - 09:54 .

[Cheesy Blue]

 We beat them doing THIS!

Modifié par Cheesy Blue, 30 novembre 2011 - 09:55 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Cheesy Blue wrote...

 We beat them doing THIS!

That's so crazy it just might work!

[Cheesy Blue]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Cheesy Blue wrote...

 We beat them doing THIS!

That's so crazy it just might work!

I had cheescake the other night for desert. It was good. It had this really nice rasberry sauce on it.