428 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Well not completely randomized. Randomized based on your dialog with oh so many characters. Or, who knows, it could be randomized, but set into the game at the very beginning so when the death finally comes, it's far too late to do anything about it.

If it's a number, it can be hacked.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Only if the randomised deaths had some sort of structure to them. So, there is actually something Shepard has done that has caused Squadmate A to die while Squadmate B is still prancing about. Also, it is something that can be reloaded and changed right away.

But I'm with Cheez, if there are compulsory deaths, then various fanbases won't be too happy. If there is a choice involved however, then it keeps with the RPGing aspect, and allows a player to choose their own game.

[AdmiralCheez]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Then once again, back to it being related to your conversations with the squadmates; the tone you take with them, whether you like them or not, and possibly a couple of critical points where they ask something like "If you had to sacrifice someone..." Yes, I know it sounds cheesy. But that idea.

And, ANYthing can be hacked. We have TIMxJacob romances to thank for that. But maybe it could be buried sufficiently.

Yeah, but TIMxJacob is awkward and can almost break the game.  Changing values, though?  As easy and harmless as giving yourself extra credits with Gibbed.

Subtlety is good.  Multiple variables are good.  Consequences are good.  Randomness?  Not really a good idea in Mass Effect.

[Dominus]

Randomness? Not really a good idea in Mass Effect.

I am the very model of a scie-...

Randomized death? Perhaps for later ME games, but it's a bit too late for adding something along those lines. It could work, but I'm not sure if it's completely appropriate for the series.

[Alamar2078]

I don't mind forced choices like Vermire too much. Is it cheap? .. .A little but it did give you a chance to RP if your LI was the one sacrificed.

As for ME2 deaths in the Suicide Mission were either due to not finishing a missions [strongly implied that were needed] or through deliberately trying to get folks killed. I've heard of folks with otherwise perfect playthroughs with random deaths [like Mordin or such] but I've had dozens of playthroughs and never seen that. Maybe my copy is glitched but I've never had a death I didn't try to create.

In ME3 I wouldn't mind some Vermire like choices. Some examples that may be OK would be we could crack some of the Reapers communications. In order to keep that secret maybe we have to sacrifice a fleet or planet that happens to have a squadmate on it. Maybe we have to do something similar to this to plant "disinformation" that is critical to getting the Reapers to fall into a trap. I'd be OK with anything like this.

Sometimes there are senseless deaths in war so I wouldn't particualarly mind some small percentage chance that a teammate that goes unconscious may actually die.

Modifié par Alamar2078, 28 novembre 2011 - 08:34 .

[The0utkast]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Only if the randomised deaths had some sort of structure to them. So, there is actually something Shepard has done that has caused Squadmate A to die while Squadmate B is still prancing about. Also, it is something that can be reloaded and changed right away.

But I'm with Cheez, if there are compulsory deaths, then various fanbases won't be too happy. If there is a choice involved however, then it keeps with the RPGing aspect, and allows a player to choose their own game.

I think this sounds pretty good. Either this or something like the mission on Virmire when you had to choose between Ashley or Kaidan. This might be a bit extreme to do to us again, but I really like the idea of someone dying again; it makes the game more personable imo.

If there one out of 3 or 4 different squadmates that could die depending on how a mission was played, choices made, etc, I think it would work out well

[Patius Mehaffius]

The idea of an utterly unavoidable death in the concept of a galaxy at war fits.

I just don't want cheap feeling no-win situations.

[capn233]

Patius Mehaffius wrote...

I just don't want cheap feeling no-win situations.

You are looking at the only Spectre candidate to ever beat the no win scenario.

I reprogrammed the Citadel so it was possible to rescue the Council and defeat Sovereign... Got a commendation for original thinking.

Modifié par capn233, 29 novembre 2011 - 03:40 .

[OmegaXI]

I'm suprised to say this but yes, as long as it does the character justice.

[Heimdall]

A squadmate death would certainly agree with the tone. It should be a choice between two characters, however, because that is really the only way to pacify parts of the fanbase. The Suicide Mission was actually supposed to be a Virmire type situation, finish getting ready or save the crew, but they messed it up and it was easily possible to avoid sacrificing either.

[capn233]

Shep: "Where's Garrus?"
Ash: "I'm sorry Shepard... he slipped in the bathroom and hit his head on the urinal. It broke his neck and he died right there on the floor."

What I think of when people start talking random deaths...

If they are the result of a choice in the game I suppose I am ok with them. If there is only one, at least they game me Red Shirt Vega...

Modifié par capn233, 29 novembre 2011 - 04:21 .

[Han Shot First]

Combat leaders have two objectives, as defined by the US Marine Corps:

1. Mission Accomplishment

2. Troop Welfare

While the welfare of the men is an important priority for combat leaders, it is always secondary to accomplishing the mission. While I'm using the US Marine Corps as an example, this philosophy also holds true for many nations' militaries, and in the Mass Effect Universe no doubt it would be the philosophy of the Alliance as well.

The player who reverses the order of those priorities, and puts the safety or security of his or her squad above mission goals, should face negative consequences. Perhaps the squad gets through uscathed but Shepard fails to achieve mission goals, or Shepard's excess of caution results in more casualties than would have otherwise been inflicted on his team had his leadership style been more aggressive.

In ME3 it should be impossible to get your team through the entire game unscathed, and players that put the men before the mission should face negative consequences.

[InvincibleHero]

DominusVita wrote...

Randomness? Not really a good idea in Mass Effect.

I am the very model of a scie-...

Randomized death? Perhaps for later ME games, but it's a bit too late for adding something along those lines. It could work, but I'm not sure if it's completely appropriate for the series.

The problem with random is people will just reload to make it pick someone else they do not like. I'd much rather a stronger story be built around a known death. If it is just anyone on squad then they will have to have generic responses or none at all. It will be well such and such is dead with a next mission promt.

It would be neat to have an immunity token system so you could protect one person from death. But who would you choose your LI, your buddy Garrus, or whomever. Except saving them would mean someone else by necessity dies in their place rescuing them. They take the bullet metaphorically or physically as the case may be.

[Lotion Soronarr]

InvincibleHero wrote...
The problem with random is people will just reload to make it pick someone else they do not like.

That would only work if hte death variable is generated right before the mission (or during it).
But what if it's generated at game start?

[Lotion Soronarr]

capn233 wrote...

Shep: "Where's Garrus?"
Ash: "I'm sorry Shepard... he slipped in the bathroom and hit his head on the urinal. It broke his neck and he died right there on the floor."

What I think of when people start talking random deaths...

LOL..Got to admit, that would be an ORIGINAL death. You'd never expect a death like that in an action game.

LEt's se..

Garrus dies at the "hands" of an urinal.
Tali electricutes herself while trying to fix her toaster
Morodin gets trampled to death by a crowd of adoring fans when he goes to prefrom his act.
Grunt gets eaten by a Tresher
Samara and Thane die from pneumonia.
Jack gets commited.
Jacob geets hte priiiize and retires
Miranda cuts her artery by mistake while shaving.

[Lord Zeel]

"random" deaths seem a little silly for a game. I know you guys are so enamoured with realism, but thats a step in the wrong direction. No one wants to hit f5 every minute because Tali might puncture herself knitting.

[InvincibleHero]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...
The problem with random is people will just reload to make it pick someone else they do not like.

That would only work if hte death variable is generated right before the mission (or during it).
But what if it's generated at game start?

It would still be scripted so would be kind of pointless. Russian roulette is not appealing. As I stated, the story would be stronger and have more cohesion if they built specific deaths into the story. Yeah BW may play favorites but every character is someone's favorite. If they were going for impact the character that is the most popular should be axed.

[Lotion Soronarr]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
The problem with scripted deaths, though, is that if they exist, then EVERYONE has them.  It's like putting peanuts on everyone's sundaes because only some people want them.

Well, what if I don't like peanuts?  What if I'm allergic?

Suck it up?
What the difference between a scripted death and any other scripted plot element? None really.

No matter what you like or dislike, some things WILL happen wihout your imput to move the story along. In any game that has a story.
Becoming a Specter? Not a choice.
Working for Cerberus? Not a choice.
Going to Ilos? Not a choice.
There's tons of scripted death in both games already - the only differnce isthat it's not a party member.

It's silly to expect everything to be optional and all tastes accounted for, otherwise the game would be either greatly watered down or stuck in development for decades, but this sort of thing isn't too difficult to implement, so long as you, as the player, don't feel the need to do every task available just because it exists.  I'm willing to bet you have no trouble skipping one or two of the romances, right?

Let's look at the often cited Wrex paradox.  There are some that say it would be more powerful or more dramatic if he couldn't be saved.  But wouldn't you agree that ME2/ME3 is/will be so much more awesome with Wrex around?  And isn't part of the replayability due to the appeal of going back and doing things differently just to see what happens?

Up to a point. But why should death X be one of those things?
You will be limited to X choices that you will make that will change things. What goes or doesn't go into those X choices is the storywriters/developers decision.

There is only one argument against squadmate death - and it can be summed up as "do not want!".

[Lotion Soronarr]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Its a game, I value a good time, if I want drama I'll just go to any mall or restruant during the rush and wait, someone is BOUND to show up with problems. I also don't like to get "lost" in anything. I fully like to be aware of as much around me as I can as often as I can. So a work of Fiction that sucks me away from the realities around me isn't welcomed for the most.

Hence why I'ld rather have your "typical" good ending. Its no problem of mine if your life is boring, or you can't handle what goes on around you.

Why the hell do you think it has anything to do with "boring life" or "not handling things around you"?

[Lotion Soronarr]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...
The problem with random is people will just reload to make it pick someone else they do not like.

That would only work if hte death variable is generated right before the mission (or during it).
But what if it's generated at game start?

It would still be scripted so would be kind of pointless. Russian roulette is not appealing. As I stated, the story would be stronger and have more cohesion if they built specific deaths into the story. Yeah BW may play favorites but every character is someone's favorite. If they were going for impact the character that is the most popular should be axed.

Why exactly would it be pointless?

[InvincibleHero]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...
The problem with random is people will just reload to make it pick someone else they do not like.

That would only work if hte death variable is generated right before the mission (or during it).
But what if it's generated at game start?

It would still be scripted so would be kind of pointless. Russian roulette is not appealing. As I stated, the story would be stronger and have more cohesion if they built specific deaths into the story. Yeah BW may play favorites but every character is someone's favorite. If they were going for impact the character that is the most popular should be axed.

Why exactly would it be pointless?

It would be the same death but just a different victim. The story would not be as tailored because you'd have a death that could happen to anyone so it would be a more generic experience. They are not going to make an excellent death story for all 12+ characters it could happen to.

[Dilandau3000]

The game could choose the character you interact with most as the person who dies, so if you ignore that person because you think he/she dies in a subsequent playthrough, someone else will die. The issue with that is that it means that for most people, the love interest will die, which will not make them happy.

I think that if Garrus is to die, it should happen like this: he shoots at an enemy, misses, then is killed by that enemy, and his last words are "if only I had better calibrated my gun..."

[ZLurps]

InvincibleHero wrote...

* snip * They are not going to make an excellent death story for all 12+ characters it could happen to.

Yeah. I think it's very unlikely that we are going to see random squad mate deaths.