428 réponses à ce sujet

[RamirezWolfen]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

RamirezWolfen wrote...

I'm okay with a no win situation, as long as it's not limited to two characters only, like the Virmire thing. Let it be any character, and a different death scene for each one. That would give it more variation and give emotion more than the first time.

I don't think you would actually get a lot of emotion out of this one, because people would just tend to throw away the character that they weren't emotionally attached to.

If the scene is pulled off well, they may end up caring about that character and feel remorse.

[Doofe2012]

While I do want to see sacrifices made by Shepard's team, I feel there are some characters who shouldn't die if all the right decisions were made (starting from ME1). Those being Shepard himself, the VS, Liara, whoever your LI is, Joker, Garrus, and Tali.

That's just my opinion, though.

[Harmless Citizen]

Why the immunity?

I personally am not a fan of unavoidable deaths, but still.

[CrazyRah]

I'm fine with everyone walking away if it's not as hilariously easy as the Suicide mission was or that there's more deciding if everyone survives the the Loyalty missions and who you assign to what task on the Sucide mission

[wildannie]

bleetman wrote...

Scripted or otherwise unavoidable squad deaths only work - and I define 'work' as 'invoking some kind of emotional impact' - the first time.

Well, that's not entirely fair, they do that on any followup playthroughs, too. It's just the emotion in question is 'annoyance', eventually replaced with 'resigned indifference'. Leaving Kaidan behind in ME1 certainly only bothered me the first time: any time after that, I already knew it was coming a couple of dozen hours in advance. Dozens of hours I spent, for the record, not interacting with Kaidan at all, because he just dies later anyway.

So no. Not a fan of them.

This ^  scripted squad deaths only limit the replay value.

I define 'squadmate' as any character that has been  recruitable squad member in any of the games... once a squaddie, always a squaddie.

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

If Jack or the DLC mercenary are the ones who dies, I'm all for it. For the rest of the crew I'm not.

[Selene Moonsong]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Well that's just full of a crap. If you're a dick to your squadmates, and/or don't do their loyalty missions, that's how they die. You had to willfully ignore obvious things and play badly. Let's not pretend otherwise.

That said, I am against the OP. I am only okay with Virmire type squadmate deaths.

Oh?

Then explain why I lost Mordin or Jack even though I had completed their loyalty missions and friendship discussions (did the same for all squadmates) ?

On my 5th and 6th playthroughs, all my characters survived and the only thing different was my choice of who to take with (or more precisely, who to leave behind) me for the final battle. I also when back to the previous 4 games where I lost either Mordin or Jack and made the same final choice in those game and was successful.

BTW, I always played Paragon and never treated any of the team or crew badly. 

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 26 novembre 2011 - 06:53 .

[CARL_DF90]

I had the same problem, then I noticed that I was lacking in some weapon, tech, and armor upgrades that I somehow missed after finishing the Suicide Mission. I replayed the game, making sure to get all the upgrades in the main game as well as the DLC and all was well. It was just a matter of picking the squad mates who were best suited for their tasks and roles after that. So, in regards to that, it made sense to me. If your people go into battle ill equiped or taking care of tasks they are ill suited for then them dying was logical. Other than the a Virmire type situation I am totally against scripted deaths, unless the squadie enters "ultimate sacrifice" mode where they have to trade their lives in order to keep you from getting killed. The mark of a true friend is the willingness to take a bullet for you after all.

Modifié par CARL_DF90, 26 novembre 2011 - 07:54 .

[jessielou]

@Selene Moonsong

Who you leave behind to hold the position is just as important a decision as who you choose to go into the vents. It's not as obvious, but just as easy to avoid once you know it matters.

To the OP, I don't really want any forced character deaths. I wouldn't mind having everyone survive be extremely hard to achieve, but I do want it to be possible. Make it dependent on specific choices I make spanning all three games maybe of opposing morality. I'd prefer having to go back and replay all three games to save people rather than have just be impossible.

Personally, I don't like being sad and depressed.  If someone is going to tug on my heartstrings, I'd rather it be in a good way.

Sorry if that's a little muddy, I just woke up lol. 

Modifié par jessielou, 26 novembre 2011 - 08:36 .

[Raizo]

I might as well add my opinion to this thread since it is something that I feel very strongly about but I'm not a fan of scripted deaths either. If squad mates are going to die in ME3 then I want it to happen because I failed to do something to keep everyone alive or because I made a bad choice or because I wasn't prepared enough to take on the Reaper threat. The ME games are all about choice and I think that it is really important that somewhere in ME3 there is a way to keep all of Shepard's crew alive.

[Someone With Mass]

If they make it harder for squadmates to survive, I have nothing against that. Making it mandatory for them to die is cheap, though. Would most likely kill the will to do replays for me too.

[Ghost Lightning]

*Reads OP*

*does not want*

[Sharizah]

Ghost Lightning wrote...

*Reads OP*

*does not want*

+

[DrwEddy]

You mean the one when where Wrex might willing to sacrifice himself to help Shepherd to defeat the Reapers in the final battle for the fate of the galaxies?

[CARL_DF90]

Heh. Clever. I mean mission or situation specific where Shep is in a jam in a mission and (depending on loyalty or respect rating) they decide to step in take one for the sake of Shep coming out alive.

[Eckswhyzee]

wildannie wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Scripted or otherwise unavoidable squad deaths only work - and I define 'work' as 'invoking some kind of emotional impact' - the first time.

Well, that's not entirely fair, they do that on any followup playthroughs, too. It's just the emotion in question is 'annoyance', eventually replaced with 'resigned indifference'. Leaving Kaidan behind in ME1 certainly only bothered me the first time: any time after that, I already knew it was coming a couple of dozen hours in advance. Dozens of hours I spent, for the record, not interacting with Kaidan at all, because he just dies later anyway.

So no. Not a fan of them.

This ^  scripted squad deaths only limit the replay value.

I define 'squadmate' as any character that has been  recruitable squad member in any of the games... once a squaddie, always a squaddie.

I think that's one of the main problems with Virmire. You replay the mission and then it's "Oh, this is the part where I pick Ash or Kaidan". Here's how they could avoid this in ME3:

1. Not have a binary choice. "Oh, this is a part where one of the 16 people I've met throughout the entire series has to stay behind to blow up the base" *obviously better written than this

2.Vary the time and place of decision. So if you attempt missions in a different order or with different squadmates, you may have to make a hard decision but it won't always be on the same planet at the same time.

3.Modified Suicide Mission. Imagine the suicide mission, with one extra mechanic - after a certain number of loyalty missions, you MUST go through the Omega-4 relay. So you COULD NOT get every crew member's loyalty. Imagine the choices with this! You have to prioritise which LMs you do and then balance that with your choices in the SM. So something similar to this could be great for ME3 if you're into this whole death thing.


Personally, I really want my sunshine and unicorns ending. But if there are going to be unavoidable squad deaths, I want them so damn well written I'm crying great manly tears of manliness.

[capn233]

I liked the ME2 type of system better than the someone has to do on this mission for sure system in ME1. Wrex was more like the former, in that there were several different things that you could have done prior to Virmire that would give you a chance of not killing him there as well.

[Chuvvy]

There will be. I won't say who.

[Nizzemancer]

jamesp81 wrote...

MassStorm wrote...

Squad deaths no matter what are frankly stupid because it eliminates altogether any incentives in playing well. I like ME series because my choices matter if they do not matter anymore then why bother playing. In conclusion i'm all for total control of the player. Play well, you get a good ending, play bad you will suffer the consequences. In such important things like "who lives who dies" no matter what situations are game breaker for me

I'm going to go with that.

Me too, I don't need to play trough more of that Emo this-character-is-unsaveable-now-go-cry-crap, The virmire choice only made me annoyed, I never, not even on the first playtrough felt one bit sad about it, just annoyed.
It's in no way emotional, If this ends up like some pathetic slasher-movie like "Saw" (Basicly everyone dies, bad guy gets away etc.) I'll either cancel my preorder or return the game as soon as I find out about it.
Having the whole "choose your own (shepards) story"-thing being ripped out of your hands in the last part of the trilogy would be pure BS.

[StarcloudSWG]

Forced squadmate deaths limit replayability. "Oh, someone ALWAYS dies in this mission." "Okay, I'll take this guy I've never interacted with and don't care about." "But the point is that you should care about him!" "Why should I? He's just going to die anyway."

Do you get it? Forced deaths matter exactly once, and only when you know it's not coming. That means a pretty cheap and lousy way to engage the player.

If the death is inevitable, then it'd better be something that you as the player CAN'T choose to do anything about. In other words, it happens to a character in non-mission related cutscenes. Like Mordin might die of old age. Or like Thane collapsing of Kepral's Syndrome. Something inevitable and known in advance.

Forcing deaths during missions or as a consequence of a successful mission is cheap.

[Nizzemancer]

Raizo wrote...

I might as well add my opinion to this thread since it is something that I feel very strongly about but I'm not a fan of scripted deaths either. If squad mates are going to die in ME3 then I want it to happen because I failed to do something to keep everyone alive or because I made a bad choice or because I wasn't prepared enough to take on the Reaper threat. The ME games are all about choice and I think that it is really important that somewhere in ME3 there is a way to keep all of Shepard's crew alive.

This, it'll keep the emo "let's kill everybody and cry on their corpses"-happy by providing the choice of doing absolutely nothing to try to save your squad as well as give the "rainbows & unicorns ending" folk spending a bunch of time doing everything possible to save everyone.

[jbblue05]

Can't every death in the game count as a cheap forced death or is it just when someone you like dies a cheap death?