428 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Read the script (for real this time) and you'll see.

I can't post anything here, because that'd be spoilers.

[GodWood]

That hasn't stopped you before.

[Someone With Mass]

GodWood wrote...

That hasn't stopped you before.

Jessica Merizan doesn't want me to anymore, and I'm honoring her request.

I'll just post them in the character support part of the forum from now on.

Besides, it'd require you to do some actual reading.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 27 novembre 2011 - 12:38 .

[Chuvvy]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Read the script (for real this time) and you'll see.

I can't post anything here, because that'd be spoilers.

There's multiple chances for squad mate death. Not really spoiling anything.

Modifié par Slidell505, 27 novembre 2011 - 12:37 .

[xentar]

Followinng along these lines, maybe the reapers should win no matter how well we play...

[Ticktank]

xentar wrote...

Followinng along these lines, maybe the reapers should win no matter how well we play...

Won't work, and EA won't allow it. ME1 and 2 sales would be affected if the story ended in such a crap manner.

[Someone With Mass]

xentar wrote...

Followinng along these lines, maybe the reapers should win no matter how well we play...

Nah. That'd be too pessimistic.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

GodWood wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Ahhh, one of the few things I really liked about the ME3 script.

You mean the script that was based on certain pervious choices and clearly showed that whenever a character died there was a chance for him/her to live?

Yeah, those parts were good.

*Spoilers*

From what I read two popular characters have unescapable deaths and another can only be kept alive by taking a very specific choice.

That is what I thought too (the first part atleast). 

SWM could you please send link that shows that this is incorrect.

[LilyasAvalon]

*Saves Garrus, Legion, Tali and Grunt... doesn't give a crap about anyone else*

[bleetman]

Random Nobody wrote...

I completely see OP's point, but scripted deaths only work if the player cares about the character; if s/he does not, it becomes a mere gameplay annoyance.

Mmhm. And if the player does care about the character, chances are they lose a lot of incentive to actually keep playing as a result. I'd much rather have a risk of death than a certainty, myself.

[Biotic Sage]

wildannie wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

MassStorm wrote...

Ticktank wrote...

It'll be hard to get another "Aeris dies" moment.

Closest equivalent I can imagine will be Liara suffering an unpreventable death.

That day i will literally throw the game out of the window without even trying finishing it.....

But what if it's a really moving death?  What if her death demonstrated how much she cares for Shepard?  Yes I would throw things, but in a good way.  That's catharsis.

As has been said earlier in the thread, unpreventable scripted deaths ruin replay value for many.  It's going to be moving once and then it gets annoying.  I'm not looking for that kind of catharsis from the Mass Effect series, I'm looking for choice and control.  

Yeah...I've watched Return of the Jedi about a thousand times and Anakin's death is always moving.  It wasn't moving just once.  Also, in a more home-hitting example, I've played through ME2 about 20 times and the suicide mission is always moving, deaths or no deaths, it is at the very least exciting.  A story can't suck an emotion out of you so that you never feel it again.  I think you are playing the wrong video game series for choice and control.  There are certainly elements of choice/control in the Mass Effect series, but that is not the backbone of the series.  If you are only playing for those elements and not for great story, drama, and characters, then you would do better to play Skyrim, or a RTS where you have complete omnipotent control over everything on the field.  I love Skyrim too, but I accept each for what they are. 

Mass Effect (despite the promises made pre-ME1 release) has never been about choices first and foremost; it's a very linear story about Shepard, the Reapers, and saving the galaxy.  You can flavor your story in various ways, like picking a class or deciding how you want to save the galaxy, but you still have to save the galaxy, you still have to die and come back to life, you still have to have certain squadmembers on your crew, and you still have to kill 300,000 batarians so that the setting for ME3 can be established.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 27 novembre 2011 - 03:40 .

[wildannie]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Yeah...I've watched Return of the Jedi about a thousand times and Anakin's death is always moving.  It wasn't moving just once.  Also, in a more home-hitting example, I've played through ME2 about 20 times and the suicide mission is always moving, deaths or no deaths, it is at the very least exciting.  A story can't suck an emotion out of you so that you never feel it again.  I think you are playing the wrong video game series for choice and control.  There are certainly elements of choice/control in the Mass Effect series, but that is not the backbone of the series.  If you are only playing for those elements and not for great story, drama, and characters, then you would do better to play Skyrim, or a RTS where you have complete omnipotent control over everything on the field.  I love Skyrim too, but I accept each for what they are. 

Mass Effect (despite the promises made pre-ME1 release) has never been about choices first and foremost; it's a very linear story about Shepard, the Reapers, and saving the galaxy.  You can flavor your story in various ways, like picking a class or deciding how you want to save the galaxy, but you still have to save the galaxy, you still have to die and come back to life, you still have to have certain squadmembers on your crew, and you still have to kill 300,000 batarians so that the setting for ME3 can be established.

No, I'm not playing the wrong series, I'm not talking about choice and control on the same level as Skyrim (I am enjoying Skyrim btw but I infinitely prefer Bioware's approach thank you very much).  

Bioware have to tread a fine line between keeping to a scripted story and giving us the illusion of choice.  It is my opinion that the scripted death of specific characters and especially LI characters would be taking too much choice away from players and would, speaking for myself, ruin replay value.

I don't tend to re-visit sad films and I would not enjoy re-visiting the death of a favourite character in ME3 on multiple playthroughs.  I have enjoyed re-playing ME and ME2 many many times playing different classes, taking different choices and I'm hoping for the same from ME3.  I'm fine with someone dying at the same point in the game but if it's always the same person it would largely ruin it for me.

[Harmless Citizen]

Except the narrative hinges on the reaper invasion.there would be no story otherwise. Plotted deaths are dramatic elements.

[Harmless Citizen]

Strawmanning. A film and an interactive game are two different types of narrative.

[The Spamming Troll]

id love to see a squadmemeber die in a sidequest, not a main mission. itd be really unexpected to see garrus take his own life to save a small UNC settlement that doesnt mean much in the big picture. itd also allow me not to play that particular mission, untill i want garrus to die. i played vermire last in ME1 because i didnt want to be down a squadmate untill as late as possible.

[Il Divo]

bleetman wrote...

Scripted or otherwise unavoidable squad deaths only work - and I define 'work' as 'invoking some kind of emotional impact' - the first time.

I firmly disagree with this. What this really indicates is that unavoidable death works best the first time, but that goes for any narrative element, since the viewer is not fully aware of what is coming. Plot twists are plot twists, because the viewer was not aware of how the twist affects the story. That is an example of a narrative element which can only work the first time, because from then on the viewer always knows what to expect.

However, I can think of several great examples from Lord of the Rings, A Song of Ice and Fire, and beyond where a character death has still managed to hit hard. It's all in the writing.

Modifié par Il Divo, 27 novembre 2011 - 05:10 .

[ZLurps]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

In ME 2, squad deaths, such as the Suicide mission, are determined by a player's choices, not by playing badly. For a while, I was almost convinced that I could never complete that particular mission without a squad member death, even though I thought I played well.

However, I later realized that it was my choices in who I chose to join me that was making the difference in that run, not just whether or not I had gained not only loyalty and the respect and friendship of each of the squad members as well.

I don't like forced choices where the choice is a guaranteed death sentence for one team member and survival of another, such as the Kaiden/Ashley choice in ME; I don't believe in no-win situations, and that there should always be a chance, slim as it may be, to make an end run around such situations. I'm not saying no hard choices as hard choices add to the drama, but I also like options to solutions beyond the two extremes.

For example, I don't mind trying to decide the team mate best suited to achieve a goal as long as I can decide on which is best suited to achieve that goal and have the best chance to survive it, as long as there are possible means on improving those chances; I don't like to waste resources of any kind.

I can, however accept a squad-mate volunteering for something and being lost because of it, for example, whether it be by my choices, or intended by the writers for dramatic effect.

Very well put.

Ticktank wrote...

xentar wrote...

Followinng along these lines, maybe the reapers should win no matter how well we play...

Won't work, and EA won't allow it. ME1 and 2 sales would be affected if the story ended in such a crap manner.

I guess no, but it sure would be interesting.. at some point player realises that the best that could be achieved would just buy time to get some sort of space archs built and launched to the dark space. Those would remain the best and last hope for the citadel races survival.

I don't think lot of people would appreciate that kind of ending though. 

[CerberusWarrior]

Ticktank wrote...

xentar wrote...

Followinng along these lines, maybe the reapers should win no matter how well we play...

Won't work, and EA won't allow it. ME1 and 2 sales would be affected if the story ended in such a crap manner.

   


oh thats right games have to always  end on a nice mood . If the reapers are so bad ass really we should have no chance no matter what we do . oh but thats right its just there to be sat morning cartoon enemies 

[wildannie]

Random Nobody wrote...

Strawmanning. A film and an interactive game are two different types of narrative.

This, I don't understand why those in favour of scripted deaths try and back up their arguments pointing to films and books which are not meant to be interactive.

Mass Effect is supposed to be interactive.  Specific character deaths of any of the ME2 squad in ME3 can't be crucial to the story as they can all be dead already which to my mind places their stories amongst the interactive parts rather than the tightly scripted parts.  

For Bioware to make a squad/crew death that is crucial to the story they are trying to tell they'd have to kill Liara or Joker or the VS (I'm not counting Vega as we don't know the character yet).

[Harmless Citizen]

The reapers were never set up to be invincible. If you want that they should tentacle rape the galaxy, buy ME3 and snap the disc in half whilst dressed as a squid.

[Lady Catastrophe]

As much as I'd hate for one of the squaddies to die, I think it's a good idea for there to be the possibility of that happening depending on your choices, and it looks like that's more and more likely to happen since this is the 'epic finale' and ME3 is shaping up to be pretty dramatic. It would certainly make for a more emotionally engaging game, that's for sure.

[marstor05]

loads will