428 réponses à ce sujet

[KingDan97]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Random Nobody wrote...

Your opinion of a better story.

My opinion > Your opinion.

Bioware's Opinion> Your Opinion

And that's all that matters.

[Yezdigerd]

Il Divo wrote...
But I don't want to make dumb decisions. I want to role-play a smart, capable Shepard who's still forced to confront certain harsh realities about the world. I shouldn't have to do that at the expense of playing a less capable Shepard, which is what the suicide mission forces on us.  

No it doesn't. Only in hindsight will you know which choices were suboptimal. The problem is that that the game allows you to reload and find out the optimal path through trial and error. If replaying a mission was a realistic option it make sense that you would be more "capable".

[mopotter]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

In ME 2, squad deaths, such as the Suicide mission, are determined by a player's choices, not by playing badly. For a while, I was almost convinced that I could never complete that particular mission without a squad member death, even though I thought I played well.

However, I later realized that it was my choices in who I chose to join me that was making the difference in that run, not just whether or not I had gained not only loyalty and the respect and friendship of each of the squad members as well.

I don't like forced choices where the choice is a guaranteed death sentence for one team member and survival of another, such as the Kaiden/Ashley choice in ME; I don't believe in no-win situations, and that there should always be a chance, slim as it may be, to make an end run around such situations. I'm not saying no hard choices as hard choices add to the drama, but I also like options to solutions beyond the two extremes.

For example, I don't mind trying to decide the team mate best suited to achieve a goal as long as I can decide on which is best suited to achieve that goal and have the best chance to survive it, as long as there are possible means on improving those chances; I don't like to waste resources of any kind.

I can, however accept a squad-mate volunteering for something and being lost because of it, for example, whether it be by my choices, or intended by the writers for dramatic effect.

Good post.  Agree with it.  Maybe that's one reason I think it's a good post?   This is one reason I can still play ME2 and enjoy the mission.   I've never sent anyone to do something I didn't think they were qualified to do, but I have sent someone who ended up dead.  I would be very happy if ME3 has some opetions like this.  

[CerberusWarrior]

Oh I hope I have the choice to kill ash in 3

[seirhart]

No just No I want shepard to have complete control over everything from the get go to influence everything. I want everyone to live no squad deaths and if I could get away with it influence the game so that most of the races survive and very little race removals

[MegaBadExample]

CerberusWarrior wrote...

Oh I hope I have the choice to kill ash in 3

God damn it man, you're such a hater. Good for you, you'll get your wish and I'll get mine. SUCK IT SON.

[KingDan97]

jreezy wrote...

seirhart wrote...

No just No I want shepard to have complete control over everything from the get go to influence everything. I want everyone to live no squad deaths and if I could get away with it influence the game so that most of the races survive and very little race removals

Not sure if you're serious or not.

I had the same reaction on reading the post reezy, but I happen to agree, the poisbility should at least exist, even if it's a minute one.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...

Bioware's Opinion> Your Opinion

And that's all that matters.

Their opinion may be the only one that matters but my opinion is still the better one.

Keep telling yourself that.

[KingDan97]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...

Bioware's Opinion> Your Opinion

And that's all that matters.

Their opinion may be the only one that matters but my opinion is still the better one.

Man, I just love circular logic.
My opinion is better because it's better in my opinion, which means it must be better because it's better in my opinion, which means it must be better because it's better in my opinion, which means it must be better because it's better in my opinion, which means it must be better because it's better in my opinion, which means it must be better because it's better in my opinion, which means it must be better.

etc. etc. etc.

Modifié par KingDan97, 28 novembre 2011 - 01:14 .

[Spinotech]

        For squadmate deaths I would prefer to have it controlled by choices, but if a squadmate's death is understandable, well done, or necessary for the plot I will not complain.  The way I see it there are four possibilities for squadmate deaths: 1) forced deaths, 2) Virmire scenario, 3) SM scenario, or 4) a hybrid of either choices 2 or 3 with more and less obvious choices being factored in the determination of what character dies.

*Below is a hybrid SM style scenario I posted on the forums several months ago*

Location: Palaven or a Turian controlled world
Situation: Turian forces have been pushed back by Reaper forces and have lost control of a key command center with important military data.  Two Reapers are confirmed to be in the area.  One is in orbit (controlling a Reaper avatar) and the other is using a shield generator to shield itself while it makes repairs.

Objective 1: Set-up an assault team to act as a frontal diversion force against Reaper forces.
            Recommended Assault Team Leaders (least assault team casualties to most): James Vega = Miranda, Garrus, Ashley, Jacob
            Variables: Success/Speed of assassinating the Reaper avatar, assault team leader.
            Cost of Failure: Assault team suffers massive casualties, survival time reduced by for "assassin.”
            Cut-Scene: Battle between assault team and Reaper forces; victor depends on variables

Objective 2: Appoint a squadmate as an "assassin" to take out the Reaper avatar.
            Recommended Squadmates (quickest to kill Reaper avatar to slowest): Thane, Garrus, Ashley, Zaeed, James Vega
            Variables: "Assassin" squadmate
            Cost of Failure: Assault team suffers massive casualties
            Cut-scene: Awesome fight scene between squadmate and Reaper avatar & Reaper controlling the avatar has its shields weakened and is taken out by the Turian fleet.

Objective 3: Obtain military data and plant explosives.
            Recommended Squadmates: None
            Variables: None
            Cost of Failure: Critical Mission Failure.
            Cut-scene: Facility explodes at the end of the mission.

Objective 4: Appoint a squadmate to take down the shield generator (4 nodes) shielding the damaged Reaper.
            Recommended Squadmates (triggers the least alarms to most): Tali = Legion = Kasumi (1 alarm triggered), Garrus (2 alarms triggered), Miranda (3 alarms triggered), Kaiden (4 alarms triggered)
            Variables: Squadmate chosen
            Cost of Failure: Damaged Reaper escapes, unable to pick up "assassin" squadmate = "assassin" squadmate dies.
            Cut-Scene: Reaper destroyed by Turian Fleet/Reaper escapes

Objective 5: Pick-up "assassin" squadmate at LZ surrounded by approaching Reaper forces.
            Squadmate Survival Time (lowest - highest): Garrus = Thane, Ashley, James Vega, Zaeed
            Variables: Status of Thane's cure, objective 4, objective 1
            Cut-Scene: "Assassin" picked up amid many husks or "Assassin" dies fighting a swarm or husks.

Modifié par Spinotech, 28 novembre 2011 - 01:27 .

[GMagnum]

i wuldnt fuk w/ jreezy tbh cuz i hurd he went 2 give a dude a handshake den da other dude burst in2 flame n died dis dude is lyke da x-men irl tbh i hurd he can shoot fireball out his eyeball 2 dam i glad i got no beef w/ him tbh

[KingDan97]

jreezy wrote...

GMagnum wrote...

i wuldnt fuk w/ jreezy tbh cuz i hurd he went 2 give a dude a handshake den da other dude burst in2 flame n died dis dude is lyke da x-men irl tbh i hurd he can shoot fireball out his eyeball 2 dam i glad i got no beef w/ him tbh

You already know GMag. I'm hella dangerous with my mutant powers tbh.

I'm hella scared tbh. I really hope you don't come for me tbh.

Modifié par KingDan97, 28 novembre 2011 - 01:38 .

[KingDan97]

jreezy wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

GMagnum wrote...

i wuldnt fuk w/ jreezy tbh cuz i hurd he went 2 give a dude a handshake den da other dude burst in2 flame n died dis dude is lyke da x-men irl tbh i hurd he can shoot fireball out his eyeball 2 dam i glad i got no beef w/ him tbh

You already know GMag. I'm hella dangerous with my mutant powers tbh.

I'm hella scared tbh. I really hope you don't come for me tbh.

You my boi KingDan97 so you safe tbh.

I knew we was hella tight tbh so I wasn't too scared tbh sonn.

[GreenDragon37]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

So, basically, the best solution would be:

Everybody can live, but it shouldn't result from the player's decision to do everything and, therefore, save everyone as much as it should be based on a moral and/or meaningful choice. Something that strengthens a common theme in the series, like sacrifice and the bonds of friendship. For example, leaving innocents to die so that the people close to you may live (that's an extreme, but you see what I'm getting at).

I, too, thought that saving everyone on the team in ME2 was more or less a cakewalk, and the SM was meaningless to me because there were very few meaningful decisions involved with keeping your squad alive. Once you had made all of the preparations (which the game itself kept reminding you to do beforehand), you were asked to make some very obvious leadership decisions to make your team as efficient as possible, and that was about it.

My hope is that there are forced crises, not deaths, which will FORCE the player to choose between his squadmates and his mission. Maybe Shepard stretches his crew thin by ordering them to find and evac all civilians in the near vicinity while he goes off to kick some ass? Maybe he chooses to rescue Garrus or Ashley from a husk swarm rather than go after an important diplomat? Stuff that reminds me of the "Distress Call" Trailer from the ME1 days; that's what I'd like to see more of. Of course, it'd only be fair if the number of crises you have to deal with in ME3 was reduced by making certain decisions in the past...

I approve of this. I like the idea of choosing between your squad and your mission. "Sure, you can save your squadmate... if you want to be a selfish douche and leave 100 civilians to die at the hands of the Reapers." Those kinds of things.  It's not the Reaper War if you don't sacrifice something in order to win.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 28 novembre 2011 - 03:42 .

[KingDan97]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

So, basically, the best solution would be:

Everybody can live, but it shouldn't result from the player's decision to do everything and, therefore, save everyone as much as it should be based on a moral and/or meaningful choice. Something that strengthens a common theme in the series, like sacrifice and the bonds of friendship. For example, leaving innocents to die so that the people close to you may live (that's an extreme, but you see what I'm getting at).

I, too, thought that saving everyone on the team in ME2 was more or less a cakewalk, and the SM was meaningless to me because there were very few meaningful decisions involved with keeping your squad alive. Once you had made all of the preparations (which the game itself kept reminding you to do beforehand), you were asked to make some very obvious leadership decisions to make your team as efficient as possible, and that was about it.

My hope is that there are forced crises, not deaths, which will FORCE the player to choose between his squadmates and his mission. Maybe Shepard stretches his crew thin by ordering them to find and evac all civilians in the near vicinity while he goes off to kick some ass? Maybe he chooses to rescue Garrus or Ashley from a husk swarm rather than go after an important diplomat? Stuff that reminds me of the "Distress Call" Trailer from the ME1 days; that's what I'd like to see more of. Of course, it'd only be fair if the number of crises you have to deal with in ME3 was reduced by making certain decisions in the past...

I approve of this. I like the idea of choosing between your squad and your mission. "Sure, you can save your squadmate... if you want to be a selfish douche and leave 100 civilians to die at the hands of the Reapers." Those kinds of things.  It's not the Reaper War if you don't sacrifice something in order to win.

Again I ask, why do i need to choose? Why does this need to be a kobiyashi maru? Why can't I have it all?

I even agree, that the SM was too easy, but why does that mean that there HAS to be losses? Does it need to even out, because the fact that some needed to survive then means that some need to die now? What if I like everyone in my squad, but also like the cultural diversity that comes with having such a rich diversity of races in the galaxy, am I just SoL?

Don't give me the line of "Oh well sometimes bad things just happen." because in a game nothing JUST happens, it's all coded and predetermined there's no random element, it's Chaos Theory at it's fundament, patterns within seeming randomness. We're not talking about pulling a Johnson here, a meaningful scripted death, we're saying that someone dies just to have death. I'm okay with a character dying for his or her uniquely established principles, but what's being suggested here is just "Oh sorry lol I'm the grim reaper, pick someone to die now k thnx bye. You need to tbh."

Let me work for it, double my game length, make me use the stupid scanning mechanic to find every stupid obnoxious N7 mission in the game, make me play through every single multiplayer scenario and reach 100% galactic readiness, but don't make it so that I have to suffer losses just because you feel unfulfilled by a happy ending.

Modifié par KingDan97, 28 novembre 2011 - 03:57 .

[KingDan97]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Why do you HAVE to always win? You always winning, always escaping unscathed, kills a lot of the tension. It hurts the villains' credibility if they can't ever hurt you.

Why do you have to be in control of everything? (oh, how ironic)

Sometimes things should happen that are beyond Shepard's control and all Shepard can do is mitigate the damage, but not eliminate it entirely.

Why do I have to win? IT'S A VIDEO GAME. That's kind of the POINT.

I'm not even fundamentally opposed to scripted deaths but it shouldn't happen just for the sake of happening though, or just for the sake of a few petty civilians, if there's something majorly bad that I just CAN'T avoid, it should have a positive affect too. This is a game, bad things don't need to "just" happen. This isn't a movie or a book, or even a linear game, this is a game in which I am supposed to have some sense of having major impacts on the world, so tell me why can't I? I'm not asking for something ridiculous, I'm not asking for a special magical ending where Cerberus and I can the Alliance and the Batarians and the Reapers can all live together in harmony. I'm asking that I can WORK to get the outcome I desire.

Modifié par KingDan97, 28 novembre 2011 - 04:15 .