25 réponses à ce sujet

[Banshe]

Ok so this is the wrong forum. But all the gamers I know/like just hang out here.

I got an invite to the beta stress test this weekend. I think that this MMO will be a success and it would hopefully teach a few PW owners a thing or two here.

One thing that they have done which I think will be the key is to have an introduction story for the player (I am a smuggler).

Most of the NWN2 PWs I have visited do little to nothing to draw you in and get involved in the world when you arrive. These PWs really need to capture the player's attention in the first few minutes.

With the Star Wars MMO, I played for a few hours and am still in the class story. By the time one finishes the starter quest, they are an established character/player in the game.

Lucky for me, I don't like MMOs and don't have the time to devote to them. Otherwise I would be hooked.

Any others with observations that can be applied here?

[Kaldor Silverwand]

I played about 10 hours yesterday and will also play more today before the beta week end ends. I've never played WoW or any other MMORPG nor any PW and I'm just not social enough to want to link up with complete strangers online and tackle some challenge, In real life I'm paid for that. In fantasy I'd rather go it alone.

I've played a Jedi Knight to level 6 and a Sith Inquisitor to level 7 so far. The way you progress is by killing things and completing quests. The quests are mostly the fed ex quests we are used to seeing in RPG games and other than seeing other people running around doing the same quests you are it feels to me to be very much like a single player RPG, just very very expansive. The areas I've seen so far are absolutely immense. So immense that I've been forced to use the HUD world map on multiple occasions just to keep from eating time wandering around aimlessly. At this point I find it a little too repetitive with the questing and I dislike cleaning up an area of enemies only to go back and find that they are back and other people are now dealing with them. It lessens the feeling of personal accomplishment.

I've read some of the postings on the forum and the primary complaint I've seen is that it feels like an RPG instead of an MMO and most of the whiners (a tiny fraction of the beta-testers I'm sure) want it to be less RPG like. The response is that basically the first 10 levels are an extended tutorial intended to allow you to level up to the point of creating your own lightsaber and getting a spaceship. At that point you leave the planet you start on and can explore the greater galaxy and it becomes more MMO-like. So if you like a fairly linear story-driven RPG in the Star Wars setting you will probably like the first 20 hours at least. If you play each of the possible protagonists (4 light side and 4 dark side) that is 160 hours of fun because each has its own story. I don't know if race and gender selection changes the stories much, but if they do then you have many other possibilities as well.

I don't know what happens once you get past level 10 or so and take to the stars. It sounds like some people will like that more and others less. So it starts as an RPG and after 20 hours or so of playing becomes an MMO. Maybe they should call it an RPGMMO instead of an MMORPG.

I'm going to play some more today but I don't know if I have the patience to get to level 10 or not. So far I've found the game fairly easy with only a few situations where I have died repeatedly.

I would definitely pay $40-50 for the game. I don't know if I would pay a monthly fee though. The last monthly fee I paid for entertainment was for AOL dialup.

Regards

[Banshe]

I turn off chat completely and ignore everyone. In one of the cantinas, someone was giving a lap dance to a wookie (jumping up and down on him) and that reminded me of why I don't talk to others for the most part.

The respawn rate is really fast there. I don't like seeing everything come back so fast either.

As for getting a spaceship, I had no idea. Now I'm curious about that. But I am getting tired of slogging through roadblock after roadblock of enemies. Perhaps I can make it to that point tonight.

I am really surprised that folks do not like the RPG part. Does that mean they only like to grind?

[Shallina]

The game is good, not as good as WOW but still very good.

Even if they won't make an impact as deep as Blizzard did with WoW they certainly will get players.

I think it's the best MMO made in the west since WoW. Characters and environement are a little to static. Other than that it's really good.

[-Semper-]

Banshe wrote...

I am really surprised that folks do not like the RPG part. Does that mean they only like to grind?

no, it's because this game is a fukkin' mmo while it tries hard to deliver a sp experience... and that's why it fails in both. the mmo aspect isn't new. biowarea hyped sw:tor to death and all they've got is another mediocre game with design decisions back from 2k3. i need to fukkin' wait for a switch to respawn? oh, i have to crush eggs with roughly 40 other jedis all stomping around rushing to the next spawnegg. couldn't they just resize the crushing field to be bigger? are you kidding me?!

those side quests are stupid too. i don't wanna listen to monologues of some whiny alien complaining about his sad life and all i can say is "i accept", "i decline" or "what's this all about"? in this case textboxes would be enough to get me going. at the end of such a quest, which are kill'n fetch always, there's usually a decision to make. here we're talking about bioware's fake c&c. there's no real consequence in the static world and the options are dumbed down to shiny good or "lolo i am evil". the only real consequences are within the flashpoints and guess what? group dialogues are fukkin' moron business -.- it's my story, it's my pc but i can't influence the outcome. the answers are rolled and with bad luck the story takes a completely other way around as my pc would plan it. the rhythm and dramaturgy changes always due to the fact that every player prefers his own style. so basically you're constantly hopping from good to bad to bad to good and that's ridiculous... and there my rpg experience silently fades away. the end of the story is that i don't fukkin' care about the conversations anymore - on top they interrupt gameplay too often. that's why dialogues with player input are a bad design decision in a mmo

btw the world isn't any better! in wow they streamed the whole world and you could fly from one end to the other without stopping. in sw:tor we are back to modules. the planets and dungeons are linear tubes with nothing to explore. sometimes you can found a long lost datacron from some ancient civilazation lying around spastically beeping and flashing so you won't miss them unless you're fukkin' blind

the character creation is bland too. there ain't other races beside human beings with weird heads. no interesting species like wookies, trandoshans, calamari, gamorreans, biths, droids, sullusts, grans or rodians. guess that's because of the so fukkin' great sexual liaisons

the whole story of each class arc is summed up in just two words: biowarian crap. you are the chosen one, the one single best to do the job where countless others failed. oh, and the player next to you is another blessing by god. and the whole band of players right behind you. with all those chosen ones a misterious age it is. awesome, right? bad is bad and good is good and there's no grey shading. every station/planet is full of merchants. each with a different currency (honor points). it feels and looks totally unrealistic.

flying with your space ship is just another tear down my cheeks. is there even anybody out there who likes boring space shooters guided by railroads?! where is the exploring? where's my free flying? just leave such crap out of the game if you can't create something entertaining!

the fighting system is the usual boring business. pulling, keeping aggro, smashing skill buttons and wait for your cool downs. the ai lost its cleverness and the different skills ain't that great or diverse either. there's no dual spec so you can't respec to better fit a flashpoint group. you're playing an exotic build (does that even exists in sw:tor?) nobody wants? fukk off! oO

sw:tor is another combatant within the mediocre wow clone army. the sad thing is it could be soooooo much more. where are the millions of dollars invested in this crap?

that biowarea fukked up mca's interesting story about the exiled, darth nihilus and kreia is the sugar on top

oh, and revan is back. a mere shadown of the former one - guess he was mind fukked again...

Modifié par -Semper-, 28 novembre 2011 - 05:25 .

[kevL]

Banshe wrote...

In one of the cantinas, someone was giving a lap dance to a wookie (jumping up and down on him) and that reminded me of why I don't talk to others for the most part.

ah ... the good old days

[Banshe]

@ Semper: Ouch...

I'm finished now. Never made it to my own spaceship but am very interested to know how that is supposed to work. Do you just enter your ship and select a destination and then you arrive there automatically or do you actually fly your ship at all? I did make it off planet to Coruscant which led me to two observations:

1. They spent all their money making as big a galaxy as they could. I found it to be staggeringly big although over time, when you get to know the places, it may seem smaller.
2. They spent very little on NPC heads. They used Viidu's body/head on the guy giving quests right outside of Viidu's office. And the youngish guy's head seemed to pop up dozens of times on different NPCs/Questgivers.

But overall, I enjoyed it. I think if I hadn't been able to ignore all the players around me, I probably would not have enjoyed it. And other players did come in handy on many occassions by clearing critters from my path to quest completion. It got really tiring killing all the bad guys again and again and again to reach your objective. So I was happy to see other players race by me and do the work.

[JasonNH]

I played it mostly in groups with other people I know from here. I liked it a lot, very entertaining. I've not played any MMOs before so perhaps I came into it with lower expectations, but it felt like multiplayer DA:O with light sabers and guns rather than swords and bows/spells. I can't get myself to pay $60 for something that also has monthly subscription rates at that price, so sadly I won't be getting it but I know I would have had a lot of fun with it.

[Banshe]

Ok. So I went looking for info about spaceships and found this (see the video on this page):

http://www.swtor.com...ms/space-combat

It would seem that they have covered a lot of the SW experience in this game.

[-Semper-]

Banshe wrote...
It would seem that they have covered a lot of the SW experience in this game.

if you had taken your time and read my post you would've known how it plays. you're not allowed to control your spacecraft. instead you're sliding through railroaded sequences while shooting targets. it's just a browser sized mini game.

in fact it's comparable to star wars rebel assault.

Modifié par -Semper-, 30 novembre 2011 - 12:29 .

[Banshe]

I read what you said. It just left a few gaps which you have now cleared up.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

I have to say, watching that space-combat video made me sad. I grew up playing the early Star Wars spacesims- X-Wing/TIE Fighter, along with Independence War and Escape Velocity, and that trashy bauble trying to pass for a late-80's arcade game made me despair of anything remotely good ever again coming out of the Star Wars franchise.

[foil-]

These:



spent many hours (and quarters) geeking out in the cockpit of one of these.

[Banshe]

It is a bit disappointing to know you cannot move your ship. But, this is, for me, the first time I have seen a real hybrid MMO that takes spaceship stuff and on foot stuff and puts in a decent amount of both.

It reminds me of Fallout BOS where you actually had vehicles for the first time (very exciting) but in a very limited sense (not really used in your locations but more for travel and random encounters).

[nicethugbert]

I'm playing Battlefield 3.

-Semper- wrote...
the sad thing is it could be soooooo much more.

That's the entire triple A title gaming industry. There is no ambition to create something new or to at least sum up the best, the state of the art. It's all about repackaging old formulas in the most half assed way possible and making more money for it.

[foil-]

nicethugbert wrote...

I'm playing Battlefield 3.

And it's probably one of the best shooters I've ever played.  Which makes it so more dissapointing when it continuously crashes out of multiplayer.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

The SWTOR beta was my first experience with playing anything online. I'm curious as to how dissimilar NWN2 PW's are from a MMORPG. Are NWN2 PW's basically set up like an MMORPG where everyone keeps fighting the same spawned in monsters over and over ad nauseum all for the purpose of level climbing? If that is the case then what does the "persistent" in an NWN2 PW mean? With the level cap of NWN2 I figure that can't really be it.

[The Fred]

I'm not really in on the PW scene, but AFAIK they're persistent in the way MMOs are persistent, in that your character keeps stuff between logging on and the world remembers your character, etc. The way they are set up presumably varies from PW to PW, just as SP modules may feature the same spawned monsters ad nauseum or not as the builder desires.

[MasterChanger]

The Fred wrote...

I'm not really in on the PW scene, but AFAIK they're persistent in the way MMOs are persistent, in that your character keeps stuff between logging on and the world remembers your character, etc. The way they are set up presumably varies from PW to PW, just as SP modules may feature the same spawned monsters ad nauseum or not as the builder desires.

This is far from all that's persistent about a PW. Speaking at least about role-play PWs, there are elements of persistence that are almost impossible to achieve in a(n) MMO due to the scale. Most RP PWs have avenues for PCs to persistently affect the world on an individual or group level. Much of this is subject to DM and/or developer assistance and perogatives, but in many PWs, if you steal the Duke's underwear, they stay stolen (and everyone must behave with this reality in mind).

Now, some PWs with less-active staffs might not incorporate minor or major changes between server resets. When the server resets, that NPC you captured might have returned to their home. It's possible to play this off as the larger authorities stepping in to negotiate or return things to the status quo. However, some PWs do get creative and actually make PC actions persist over the long term.

The only element of some MMOs that I've seen that has approximated this is the idea of border keeps that can be captured by different factions through raiding. Then the faction that controls a certain area might get bonuses to all its PCs and/or NPCs guarding that area.

[SuperFly_2000]

Just to chime in on this I am an advocate of that NWN1/2 are not so far from MMO and would even call every PW an MMO....

Its really close enough to the definition of an MMO to be called that.

I think the industry today really has a lot to learn from NWN1/2 on how to make an MMO...emphasizing more on the "multiplayer" part than on the "massive".

Most seem to be happy single-playing through WoW for example...just as long as it has a massive amount of other players...doh....

[MokahTGS]

 I think the main thing that is changing in MMO gaming or evening MP gaming is the scale.  NWN1/2 was never a MMORPG, but always a MPRPG.  Playing with others in NWN1/2 was a filtered afair, which encouraged cooperation and teamwork.

MMO's such as WoW only require groups when you raid at the end game.  Everything else can be, and is, soloed.  When I played WoW, I never wanted to play with anyone else.  I wanted to do my quests...or craft...or watch idiots dance in the town square.  I did not have any motivation to play with anyone else because there was never any benefit.  98% of WoW content, and any other MMO of the same format is for solo players.

I have also played other MMOs that don't fit into the same mold (DDO & Guildwars) and played quite a bit with other players.  Mainly, because the game design encouraged it by giving tangible benefits for party play.  This is why I look so forward to Guildwars 2.  Everything is designed to encourage people to play together.

If you build a MP game, you have to have systems in place that reward people for playing together...not just at end game, but from lvl 1 and on.  This is and always has been a strength of the NWN1/2 series.

[-Semper-]

MokahTGS wrote...

I have also played other MMOs that don't fit into the same mold (DDO & Guildwars) and played quite a bit with other players.  Mainly, because the game design encouraged it by giving tangible benefits for party play.  This is why I look so forward to Guildwars 2.  Everything is designed to encourage people to play together.

vanilla gw was hard to master with a solo build. since nightfall you can add and control heroes without needing a party at all. with the right build you can even solo gw's endcontent dungeons like underworld. gw2 looks like it will appeal to single players too. the story is centered around your char and you won't need groups to finish events. the world ain't instanced and you just meet players out there fighting for the same goal.

Modifié par -Semper-, 07 décembre 2011 - 07:44 .

[MokahTGS]

-Semper- wrote...

vanilla gw was hard to master with a solo build. since nightfall you can add and control heroes without needing a party at all. with the right build you can even solo gw's endcontent dungeons like underworld. gw2 looks like it will appeal to single players too. the story is centered around your char and you won't need groups to finish events. the world ain't instanced and you just meet players out there fighting for the same goal.

GW2 has mechanics in place that encourage party play, unlike many MMO's that actually discourage playing cooperatively.  Here's a few of them:

• Most of the world is not instanced, meaning everyone is together a lot of the time.
• Those spaces have dynamic events happening all the time, that are multiplyer friendly, in that each event has many different tasks that need to be completed to push the event forward.
• Larger Boss level events (which happen at all lvl ranges, BTW) need lots of people or the event will fail.
• Kill-stealing does not exist as anyone who partisipates gets rewards.
• Craft Node gathering works exactly like hunting mobs and can't be stolen, so there's no gathering running like in WoW.
• ALL Players are encouraged and enabled to revieve fallen players with healing abilities.
• All classes have cross class skill benefits, such as rangers firing arrows through a elementalists fire wall for a flaming arrow effect.  This encourages player cooperation.

I'm sure there are others, but any of those is a very welcomed addition to an MMO and is reason enough to serve as proof that GW2 is out of the norm for MMOs.

As far as soloing GW, yes you can, but what I was saying is that GW was one of the first games where I was OK playing with others, as we all got rewards and no one felt slighted by teaming up.  This is not true for my time in WoW.  In fact, with WoW I felt discouraged by the game mechanics to team up in the early game.  All team benefits didn't exist until the end game.  Bad design in my book.

[-Semper-]

MokahTGS wrote...
GW2 has mechanics in place that encourage party play, unlike many MMO's that actually discourage playing cooperatively.  Here's a few of them:

• Most of the world is not instanced, meaning everyone is together a lot of the time.
• Those spaces have dynamic events happening all the time, that are multiplyer friendly, in that each event has many different tasks that need to be completed to push the event forward

that's what i wrote. because of the world ain't instanced you don't need a group anymore. actually this strenghtens the solo play. you don't need to gather your friends anymore because you will meet other people out there and eventually you will fight together in events. if at all this will be only a loose connection.

MokahTGS wrote...

• ALL Players are encouraged and enabled to revieve fallen players with healing abilities.

how does this build up teamwork?! in the end nobody will heal you because everybody thinks that another one can do the job while they will still be hopping around dealing dmg. a class healer knows his job inside a group and will keep them together to heal efficiently.

MokahTGS wrote...

• All classes have cross class skill benefits, such as rangers firing arrows through a elementalists fire wall for a flaming arrow effect.  This encourages player cooperation.

that a plus. if it will work at the battlefield has to be seen. without communication it will fail

[Kaldor Silverwand]

And how is the new Neverwinter MMORPG expected to compare to this? Is it going to attempt to be heavy plot like SWTOR is (for at least the first 10 levels or so anyway)?