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[TEWR]

Aaleel wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Who's to say that the Wardens that told him it made him soft weren't the ones you recruited? Sigrun, Velanna, etc.

Hell, for all we know the Warden recruited more than just those guys into the Warden Order, but Bioware just wanted us to have those guys as companions.

Remember that you do go to the Deep Roads at least twice, both times facing Darkspawn.

Andres explains it all.  It happened after Awakenings finished.  Something happened when he went back to the deep roads that made the Wardens say the cat was making him soft.  Then he went Amaranthine to find the cat a home.

He doesn't say that it happened after Awakening. He just says it happened.

[Aaleel]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

A venture into the Deep Roads does not neccessarily entail a trek involving multiple months. He could have shown up, dived head first into a cave with a known Broodmother in it to save his cat on the first day, and was told he needed to get rid of the flea bag.

Not likely, mind you, but it is POSSIBLE. To say it is IMPOSSIBLE fails to adhere to any possibility (or any excuse Bioware could create) as to how short or how long an event took to happen.

I have no doubt they'll retcon what the want to make the timeline fit, but that's what they'll have to do to make it work out

[Heimdall]

It doesn't seem impossible, definitely too tight, but not impossible.

I'd say Anders would need little more than a few weeks between the end of awakening and his appearance in DAII to square off all the necessary events he talked about and establishing a clinic.

[Aaleel]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Who's to say that the Wardens that told him it made him soft weren't the ones you recruited? Sigrun, Velanna, etc.

Hell, for all we know the Warden recruited more than just those guys into the Warden Order, but Bioware just wanted us to have those guys as companions.

Remember that you do go to the Deep Roads at least twice, both times facing Darkspawn.

Andres explains it all.  It happened after Awakenings finished.  Something happened when he went back to the deep roads that made the Wardens say the cat was making him soft.  Then he went Amaranthine to find the cat a home.

He doesn't say that it happened after Awakening. He just says it happened.

<_<  Did he have the cat when Awakenings ended?  Did you go to the deep roads after you beat the mother?  When would this event have occured?  The Warden Commander was in charge until he/she left, and since he/she gave him the cat it wasn't the Warden Commander who said to get rid of it.

[TEWR]

Aaleel wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Who's to say that the Wardens that told him it made him soft weren't the ones you recruited? Sigrun, Velanna, etc.

Hell, for all we know the Warden recruited more than just those guys into the Warden Order, but Bioware just wanted us to have those guys as companions.

Remember that you do go to the Deep Roads at least twice, both times facing Darkspawn.

Andres explains it all.  It happened after Awakenings finished.  Something happened when he went back to the deep roads that made the Wardens say the cat was making him soft.  Then he went Amaranthine to find the cat a home.

He doesn't say that it happened after Awakening. He just says it happened.

<_<  Did he have the cat when Awakenings ended?  Did you go to the deep roads after you beat the mother?  When would this event have occured?  The Warden Commander was in charge until he/she left, and since he/she gave him the cat it wasn't the Warden Commander who said to get rid of it.

He has the cat during Awakening. It could've happened during Awakening, which is what I said earlier. The Warden goes to the Deep Roads at least twice.

Just because the Warden gave Anders the cat doesn't mean the Warden wouldn't talk to Anders about it being a risk to Warden missions if it became one.

[Aaleel]

Lord Aesir wrote...

It doesn't seem impossible, definitely too tight, but not impossible.

I'd say Anders would need little more than a few weeks between the end of awakening and his appearance in DAII to square off all the necessary events he talked about and establishing a clinic.

A few weeks? The Deep Roads were no where near Vigils keep, there was just a tunnel that lead all the way to the Deep Roads.  He had to go there and back.  Then he had to go to Amaranthine and then he had to take the boat ride, which I'm sure was more than a couple days.

Then he had to set up the clinic and build up enough trust to where people were protecting him and he knew the goings on of the city.  We haven't even talked about how Justice grew tired of injustice and said that they should join forces, or Andres obtaining the maps to the deep roads. 

Too much stuff went on.  He was not only in Kirkwall already he was established.

[Aaleel]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote..

He has the cat during Awakening. It could've happened during Awakening, which is what I said earlier. The Warden goes to the Deep Roads at least twice.

Just because the Warden gave Anders the cat doesn't mean the Warden wouldn't talk to Anders about it being a risk to Warden missions if it became one.

He had the cat at the end, at least he did in my game.  He didn't lose the cat during the events of Awakenings.

I even forgot about the events of him merging with Justice and then murdering a grey Warden who he had been around for some time and gone on several missions with.  So add that to all the other stuff that occured after Awakenings. 

His timeline is just not possible.

Edit: If anyone is wondering where this came from.  Andres Story

Modifié par Aaleel, 29 novembre 2011 - 04:35 .

[TEWR]

okay then let's say Act 1 takes place a minimum of 3 months after it ended instead of the 1.5 I said earlier.

It allows for Anders to go on a mission into the Deep Roads, spend time with the Templar Warden, merge with Justice, and subsequently go bat**** insane.

[Heimdall]

Aaleel wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

It doesn't seem impossible, definitely too tight, but not impossible.

I'd say Anders would need little more than a few weeks between the end of awakening and his appearance in DAII to square off all the necessary events he talked about and establishing a clinic.

A few weeks? The Deep Roads were no where near Vigils keep, there was just a tunnel that lead all the way to the Deep Roads.  He had to go there and back.  Then he had to go to Amaranthine and then he had to take the boat ride, which I'm sure was more than a couple days.

Then he had to set up the clinic and build up enough trust to where people were protecting him and he knew the goings on of the city.  We haven't even talked about how Justice grew tired of injustice and said that they should join forces, or Andres obtaining the maps to the deep roads. 

Too much stuff went on.  He was not only in Kirkwall already he was established.

How long does it take to be well established in a place desperately in need of his services?

A few days to the deep roads, a few days there, a few days back, it probably didn't take as much as two weeks.  Amaranthine?  A few days of walking tops, I was under the impression the journey could be made in a day.  The trip probably took around a week or two to get to Kirkwall.  Then he's left with one to two weeks to establish himself, which, as I said, wouldn't take long given there was a high demand for his services.  As for Justice, it probably happened either to or from the deeproads expedition I mentioned earlier.  He probably got the maps while passing through the Vigil on the way to Amaranthine.  It's all uncomfortably tight, I'll grant you, but doable in a timeframe as compact as just under a month.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 29 novembre 2011 - 04:41 .

[Aaleel]

[quote]Lord Aesir wrote...

[/quote]How long does it take to be well established in a place desperately in need of his services?

A few days to the deep roads, a few days there, a few days back, it probably didn't take as much as two weeks.  Amaranthine?  A few days of walking tops, I was under the impression the journey could be made in a day.  The trip probably took around a week or two to get to Kirkwall.  Then he's left with one to two weeks to establish himself, which, as I said, wouldn't take long given there was a high demand for his services.  As for Justice, it probably happened either to or from the deeproads expedition I mentioned earlier.  He probably got the maps while passing through the Vigil on the way to Amaranthine.  It's all uncomfortably tight, I'll grant you, but doable in a timeframe as compact as just under a month.

[/quote]

He was one of them, before his Chantry was destroyed by the darkspawn and he felt the calling to join the Wardens. No one ever said a deal had been struck, but as soon as the templars stopped their protests, Rolan turned up in the Wardens, and we've fielded every assignment together since. It's all too clear the templars sent him to keep watch.

How long did he spend doing multiple assignments with this templar/warden?  That just a couple of days too?  There's just too much stuff they squeezed into this. 

[TEWR]

Aaleel wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

It doesn't seem impossible, definitely too tight, but not impossible.

I'd say Anders would need little more than a few weeks between the end of awakening and his appearance in DAII to square off all the necessary events he talked about and establishing a clinic.

A few weeks? The Deep Roads were no where near Vigils keep, there was just a tunnel that lead all the way to the Deep Roads.  He had to go there and back.  Then he had to go to Amaranthine and then he had to take the boat ride, which I'm sure was more than a couple days.

There's a Deep Roads entrance right underneath Vigil's Keep, as the Dwarves regularly did trading with the Avvar there.

[Aaleel]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

It doesn't seem impossible, definitely too tight, but not impossible.

I'd say Anders would need little more than a few weeks between the end of awakening and his appearance in DAII to square off all the necessary events he talked about and establishing a clinic.

A few weeks? The Deep Roads were no where near Vigils keep, there was just a tunnel that lead all the way to the Deep Roads.  He had to go there and back.  Then he had to go to Amaranthine and then he had to take the boat ride, which I'm sure was more than a couple days.

There's a Deep Roads entrance right underneath Vigil's Keep, as the Dwarves regularly did trading with the Avvar there.

No the dwarf that rebuilt the walls said I bet if you follow this it probably connects or leads to the deep roads eventually.

[TEWR]

Aaleel wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

It doesn't seem impossible, definitely too tight, but not impossible.

I'd say Anders would need little more than a few weeks between the end of awakening and his appearance in DAII to square off all the necessary events he talked about and establishing a clinic.

A few weeks? The Deep Roads were no where near Vigils keep, there was just a tunnel that lead all the way to the Deep Roads.  He had to go there and back.  Then he had to go to Amaranthine and then he had to take the boat ride, which I'm sure was more than a couple days.

There's a Deep Roads entrance right underneath Vigil's Keep, as the Dwarves regularly did trading with the Avvar there.

No the dwarf that rebuilt the walls said I bet if you follow this it probably connects or leads to the deep roads eventually.

yea and that area is fairly small and leads to a latter which is a straight shot down into the Deep Roads.

[Earl73]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Assuming Awakening takes place 4 months after Origins' ending -- as F. Melo only said several, not six. 6 is what the wiki believes to be the case

Ahem.  If your HN warden marries Anora, the ending slide clearly states that she and the Warden marry 6 months after her coronation.  If you then import into Awakenings, when Anora shows up she clearly calls the warden 'husband'.

Since the beginning of Awakenings is identical for all wardens, regardless of origins, choices, etc. we have to assume that the events of Awakenings starts at the same time for all wardens.  Therefore Awakenings must start AT LEAST 6 months after Anora's coronation.  There is simply no way around this.

[alex90c]

Just sayin' but Hawke spent the entire game in servitude.

herpderp

[Aaleel]

Ok, I'm just going to lay this out using only things from the games themselves, and I'm going to be generous to the opposing view as mine just to show how ridiculous this timeline is.

Wynne says in Origins that it's been a year since you left the circle tower.  This is the only dialogue I can recall with companions that puts a length on Origins.  Even though you haven't even finished with Origins yet, I'll be generous and cut it off right there with an even one year.

Hawke's story starts at Lothering.  Lothering gets destroyed when you start the first treaty quest.  So from the year we have to subtract the time it took to do the Origin, go to Ostagar, go to Lothering and start the first treaty quest.  I'll be very generous and say this took 4 months and everything else took 8 months.

This means the Wardens story cut into Hawke's story 8 months, and then you add on another six months for the time between games.  Thats Fourteen months into Hawke's story and you haven't even started Awakenings yet.

Now I'll be generous again and say it took Hawke three months to get from Lothering to Kirkwall, which is far more than I think it took.  That means the the Blight ended five months into Hawke's year of servitude.  Add on six months to that and Hawke only has one year of servitude left when Awakenings in just starting.

You still have the events of Awakenings
A trip to and from the Deep Roads
Go to Amaranthine to find a home for his cat
Merge with Justice
Andres has to spend time and do missions with this Templar/Warden Rolan
When did all the business with Karl happen
He still has to take his boat ride to Kirkwall
Has to set up his clinic

Even with the most generous view of the timeline it's still ridiculous.

Now I don't think it took 4 months to get to the first treaty quest and I don't think it took 3 months for Hawke to get from Lothering to Kirkwall.  Not to mention there was still some time left in Origins when Wynne made the one year comment.  I think that when the game is saying that Andres is in Kirkwall, by the real events he's taking part in the Joining at Vigil's Keep.

Modifié par Aaleel, 29 novembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[Persephone]

alex90c wrote...

I'd prefer if the stock game was great and the DLC sucked rather than the stock game sucking and the DLCs being good.

And I am glad that I got a game I enjoyed with brilliant DLC. DAII may not be to everyone's taste, but it doesn't suck. Want a game that sucks? Try Gothic IV. *Shudders* 

[Persephone]

eyesofastorm wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I blame the Origin stories, though.  While each one of these crafted an interesting character, that character was quickly lost when they all merged into a single, generic, 'Warden' person about an hour into the game.

I could not disagree with this more vehemently.  DA:O was probably the most re-playable game I have ever played because of the origin stories... they changed the whole complexion of the game for me.  Alistair was my mage character's boy... he LOVED that fool, but even so, he couldn't bring himself to kill or let Alistair kill probably the most valuable military mind in all of Ferelden even if it meant losing Alistair's friendship.  My human noble character on the other hand watched his parents sacrifice themselves to Howe's men so that he could escape.  This character would have fought Alistair tooth and nail for the opportunity to kill Loghain.  My dust town Dwarf on the other hand was my only character to make the ultimate sacrifice because he was so thankful to the Grey Wardens for giving him an opportunity to be something more than a thug for the Carta.  The origin stories were brilliant and they made for the best, most engrossing roleplaying I've ever experienced in a computer game... period.  

All of which is head canon, nothing of that emotional growth is shown IN GAME. At all.

[Persephone]

Korusus wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

And not all who purchased them liked them. Truth is the only way for Bioware to get back in the graces of those who feel let down is DA3. No words or DLCs can do this. And that's when people will stop complain about DA2. Then they will either complain about DA3 ... or come to peace with DA2. Even though I personally will probably never come to peace with DA2. Lost potential stays lost potential. I don't think I can ever think of DA2 as something other than a crash landing of the DA franchise.

I agree wholeheartedly.  DA2 can never be undone.  It is what it is. 

DA2 is a miserably mediocre game unbecoming of BioWare's great name.  The apologists do BioWare no credit.  They (BioWare) should hold themselves to a higher standard, and usually have in the past.  That has nothing to do with how dumbed down or actioned-up the game was, or how little it resembled a true RPG.  It's just a geniunely bad game.  It's not a bad game because I disagreed with many of the design decisions.  It's just... a bad ...game.  It was a bad game in March, it's a bad game 8 months later. 

So these are facts now and whoever disagrees with this snide, arrogant insult to the intelligence of those who like/love/support DAII and its DLC are apologists now?

The mind boggles, truly.

[Persephone]

alex90c wrote...

Just sayin' but Hawke spent the entire game in servitude.

herpderp

Just saying....joking about servitude/slavery = herpderp and definitely not funny.

[Sylvianus]

There is something that I don't understand at all. It is to condemn a concept, forgetting that the system can be improved. Yes in DAO, races/origins were not properly taken into account, but the potential is there. With work, Bioware can achieve something great. So, this argument, over and over about origins in DA0 doesn't work well.

The same could go for the voiced protagonist. This concept has great potential, but it is easy to condemn it because of some issues encountered in DA2, remaining permanently static and forgetting it can be improved, that some problems can be solved in the future.

In Mass Effect, origins did not matter at all, they will count a little more in M3. Maybe It won't be something huge, but by your logic, there shouldn't be any improvement.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 29 novembre 2011 - 05:28 .

[AlexXIV]

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Just sayin' but Hawke spent the entire game in servitude.

herpderp

Just saying....joking about servitude/slavery = herpderp and definitely not funny.

The joke is that it is true. Hawke is a servant, even if maybe high ranking. And other than the Warden there is not even a greater cause or reason behind it. You just have to do what the Viscount or Meredith or whoever is telling you to do at times.

[jlb524]

Sylvianus wrote...
There is something that I don't understand at all. It is to condemn a concept, forgetting that the system can be improved. Yes in DAO, races/origins were not properly taken into account, but the potential is there. With work, Bioware can achieve something great. So, this argument, over and over about origins in DA0 doesn't work well.

Of course they can achieve something great...it will take a lot of time and $$$ though.

AlexXIV wrote...
You just have to do what the Viscount or Meredith or whoever is telling you to do at times.

That makes every BW PC a servant.

Modifié par jlb524, 29 novembre 2011 - 05:33 .

[AlexXIV]

Sylvianus wrote...

There is something that I don't understand at all. It is to condemn a concept, forgetting that the system can be improved. Yes in DAO, races/origins were not properly taken into account, but the potential is there. With work, Bioware can achieve something great. So, this argument, over and over about origins in DA0 doesn't work well.

The same could go for the voiced protagonist. This concept has great potential, but it is easy to condemn it because of some issues encountered in DA2, remaining permanently static and forgetting it can be improved, that some problems can be solved in the future.

In Mass Effect, origins did not matter at all, they will count a little more in M3. Maybe It won't be something huge, but by your logic, there shouldn't be any improvement.

It doesn't help much if a concept is great but not that well executed. Both games had more potential. And at some point devs will have to make a cut and stop developing and finally releasing the game. But anyway, the result is what counts. Unused potential is wasted potential. So to say the game has potential isn't really much more a praise than a critizism.

[Sylvianus]

jlb524 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
There is something that I don't understand at all. It is to condemn a concept, forgetting that the system can be improved. Yes in DAO, races/origins were not properly taken into account, but the potential is there. With work, Bioware can achieve something great. So, this argument, over and over about origins in DA0 doesn't work well.

Of course they can achieve something great...it will take a lot of time and $$$ though.

And something that can be seen very interesting / valuable, which can be supported by many players.

Kinematics are expensive too. That doesn't make them less valuable or supported by many people, among them  some who don't want origins.

The order of the players while remaining realistic is to show what they wish to  bioware, then that's to Bioware to see what it can do what it can answer.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 29 novembre 2011 - 05:39 .