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Is BioWare mad with the fanbase?


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#226
Terror_K

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alex90c wrote...

"destroy defences on virmire or don't"
"send enemy guards to kirrahe or deal with them yourself"
"let indoctrinated salarian out of cell or don't"
"ashley or kaidan"

yup, it's either "this way or that way" in ME1 as well.

how about just for one second you stop bashing ME2, take ME1 off of its 800ft pedestal in the sky and actually admit that ME2 actually did some things decent. ME2 didn't get a 90%+ average because it sucked now did it? i'm not denying that ME1 was a great game, but the ME2 bashing started to get old, I dunno, months ago.


Aside from the fact that the first two examples relate to the same mission directly and both determine the outcome that only goes to prove that there's more layers to it (as well as the fact that the Ashley or Kaidan choice has four elements to it: not only who you save, but which one you assign to where), of course ME1 also had some "this or that" binary decisions too, but my point was there were far more missions that had far more varied approaches.

Getting the garage pass has been mentioned already, which has about 6 options to it, and aren't just relegated to a dialogue choice that leads to an outcome, but also change the characters you interact with and even places you go and combat you take part in (or don't). Same with Peak 15, which you could simply shoot your way through the back instantly to get to Benezia, or discover her assassin and help Dr. Cohen, etc. As I said, the Samesh Bhatia choice has at least four options to it, with paragon and renegade ways to either free Nirali's body from the Alliance or not, and the Hanar preacher also has paragon and renegade ways to deal with both the preacher and the turian C-Sec officer, as well as another option to simply buy him the licence.

The point is, all these cases have at least four choices each, some of which change the make-up and experience of the mission entirely. Only Zaeed and Kasumi's missions really did that in ME2, and they're DLC. I'd be willing to toss Samara's loyalty mission a bone I guess, since it allowed you several interactions to get Morinth's attentions, but that's about as close as ME2 got. How many cases were there in ME2 where you could avoid a whole combat area entirely, or blast through an extra encounter to avoid a more laboured way there?

ME2 did do some things decently, I'll fully admit that. It was more cinematically satisfying and interrupts did add a dimension that wasn't there in ME1. But overall, mission design was far more linear and less varied, from the designs and layouts of the missions themselves, to the ways of approaching missions. Even the sidequests were generally reduced to fetch-quests where you tripped over objects on the beaten path (the trinket on Illium, the manifold on Tuchanka, etc.) during existing missions that you'd have to be blind to miss, as opposed to ME1's examples like Feros where you had to actually divert off the beaten path to other areas to help the colonists, get the computer data and get the Thorian gas (though admittedly that last one is impossible to miss, it's still a diversion in the end, and an optional one).

#227
CerberusWarrior

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Phaedon wrote...

"It could make up for the failings to do so in the past"

I..uh,er,what?

Of course, it is its own game? It really, really doesn't need to be enjoyed in comparison or in the same time with something else?

Anyway, mark my words. There'll be some rage come release due to the unresolved debate of having your consequences and choices be a)important on the universe, b)important on the feelings of the player.

There'll be people complaining because they couldn't choose if a specific race would survive or not, and there will be people complaining about the potential sacrifice of squadmates. As long as I am able to roleplay my own character and enjoy the story, I don't personally care about huge consequences that much. I mean, yeah, it'd be cool to decide if I have to sacrifice the volus or the elcor, but it's not as important to me as enjoying a great roleplaying tale with a great cast of characters by my side.

Just wait and see, you'll see that I'll be right in the long run.
Take a look at the Cerberus apologizers. Upon the confirmation that Cerberus are the bad guys in ME3, even they simultaneously complain about a)BioWare trying too hard to show that Cerberus is evil, even though they personally "know" that they are not, b)Claim that their "choices" have been reduced to nothing, and that BioWare doesn't understand Cerberus as much as they do.

The sheer madness is somewhat not surprising.

   


Oh please there was a ton of cry babies who hated working with Cerberus in 2 and wow oh look they are bad guys in 3 . yeah thats a developer doing a big fat ass kiss to a certain group of fans . yeah dam right the whole Mass Effect create your own story with choices is a joke why because Bioware only gives a dam about the paragons and the good choices .  I have much respect for Skyrim and other games that have real choice in their games . Nah the cry babies who whined and complained during ME 2 should throw a party at what ME 3 is . there is no such thing as choice in ME 3 its all a one sided system where the paragons get all the glory .

#228
ForteSJGR

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IsaacShep wrote...
Lul wut? I would be the happiest fan ever if ME franchise has as stellar writing as KOTOR 2.


Not sure if trolling or if serious....but what I meant was If the game starts falling apart at the halfway point by itself that I would be p.o'd.  Not to mention the bugs....:sick:

#229
JaceTAce

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I'm going to take an educated case and think that a majority of the game is completed. From news about them possibly changing a few things in the script, they' be working on some new things for the story. For how big and desired the game appears to be, I would say that it should recieve gold status somtime around the end of January and February in order to make copies and have them shipped out around the world by March. But, seeing how developers are taking advantage of how games can be tweaked around based off beta data, and a demo being released some time around January, I'd say the game may not be completely finished until at least the middle of February for last minute tweeking. So, by the end of December, the final script will probably be finished with the game only needing some polishing, tweeking, and testing before the beta. Right now, I'd say they are just reworking the script most likely while doing some voice casting done. Those are my thoughts. Yours?

Modifié par JaceTAce, 27 novembre 2011 - 09:22 .


#230
CerberusWarrior

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Terror_K wrote...

alex90c wrote...

"destroy defences on virmire or don't"
"send enemy guards to kirrahe or deal with them yourself"
"let indoctrinated salarian out of cell or don't"
"ashley or kaidan"

yup, it's either "this way or that way" in ME1 as well.

how about just for one second you stop bashing ME2, take ME1 off of its 800ft pedestal in the sky and actually admit that ME2 actually did some things decent. ME2 didn't get a 90%+ average because it sucked now did it? i'm not denying that ME1 was a great game, but the ME2 bashing started to get old, I dunno, months ago.


Aside from the fact that the first two examples relate to the same mission directly and both determine the outcome that only goes to prove that there's more layers to it (as well as the fact that the Ashley or Kaidan choice has four elements to it: not only who you save, but which one you assign to where), of course ME1 also had some "this or that" binary decisions too, but my point was there were far more missions that had far more varied approaches.

Getting the garage pass has been mentioned already, which has about 6 options to it, and aren't just relegated to a dialogue choice that leads to an outcome, but also change the characters you interact with and even places you go and combat you take part in (or don't). Same with Peak 15, which you could simply shoot your way through the back instantly to get to Benezia, or discover her assassin and help Dr. Cohen, etc. As I said, the Samesh Bhatia choice has at least four options to it, with paragon and renegade ways to either free Nirali's body from the Alliance or not, and the Hanar preacher also has paragon and renegade ways to deal with both the preacher and the turian C-Sec officer, as well as another option to simply buy him the licence.

The point is, all these cases have at least four choices each, some of which change the make-up and experience of the mission entirely. Only Zaeed and Kasumi's missions really did that in ME2, and they're DLC. I'd be willing to toss Samara's loyalty mission a bone I guess, since it allowed you several interactions to get Morinth's attentions, but that's about as close as ME2 got. How many cases were there in ME2 where you could avoid a whole combat area entirely, or blast through an extra encounter to avoid a more laboured way there?

ME2 did do some things decently, I'll fully admit that. It was more cinematically satisfying and interrupts did add a dimension that wasn't there in ME1. But overall, mission design was far more linear and less varied, from the designs and layouts of the missions themselves, to the ways of approaching missions. Even the sidequests were generally reduced to fetch-quests where you tripped over objects on the beaten path (the trinket on Illium, the manifold on Tuchanka, etc.) during existing missions that you'd have to be blind to miss, as opposed to ME1's examples like Feros where you had to actually divert off the beaten path to other areas to help the colonists, get the computer data and get the Thorian gas (though admittedly that last one is impossible to miss, it's still a diversion in the end, and an optional one).

   



Mass Effect 1 is the biggest piece of crap game I ever saw and played . the game play in that game is complete garbage . All the poor pathetic game media sites handed it all those stupid awards . For what because to be frank the story of ME 1 is was nothing new . Oh and what story telling Shepard being portrayed as some type of  one man saving machine kinda reminds me of that clown in Halo called Master Chief . . ME 1 is nothing great its just a rough attempt to merge shooters and rpgs

#231
Homebound

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CerberusWarrior wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

"It could make up for the failings to do so in the past"

I..uh,er,what?

Of course, it is its own game? It really, really doesn't need to be enjoyed in comparison or in the same time with something else?

Anyway, mark my words. There'll be some rage come release due to the unresolved debate of having your consequences and choices be a)important on the universe, b)important on the feelings of the player.

There'll be people complaining because they couldn't choose if a specific race would survive or not, and there will be people complaining about the potential sacrifice of squadmates. As long as I am able to roleplay my own character and enjoy the story, I don't personally care about huge consequences that much. I mean, yeah, it'd be cool to decide if I have to sacrifice the volus or the elcor, but it's not as important to me as enjoying a great roleplaying tale with a great cast of characters by my side.

Just wait and see, you'll see that I'll be right in the long run.
Take a look at the Cerberus apologizers. Upon the confirmation that Cerberus are the bad guys in ME3, even they simultaneously complain about a)BioWare trying too hard to show that Cerberus is evil, even though they personally "know" that they are not, b)Claim that their "choices" have been reduced to nothing, and that BioWare doesn't understand Cerberus as much as they do.

The sheer madness is somewhat not surprising.

   


Oh please there was a ton of cry babies who hated working with Cerberus in 2 and wow oh look they are bad guys in 3 . yeah thats a developer doing a big fat ass kiss to a certain group of fans . yeah dam right the whole Mass Effect create your own story with choices is a joke why because Bioware only gives a dam about the paragons and the good choices .  I have much respect for Skyrim and other games that have real choice in their games . Nah the cry babies who whined and complained during ME 2 should throw a party at what ME 3 is . there is no such thing as choice in ME 3 its all a one sided system where the paragons get all the glory .


this isn't skyrim.

#232
shepskisaac

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ForteSJGR wrote...

Not sure if trolling or if serious....

Absolutely serious. The writing is fantastic, a rare example how video games can rival best written movies/books.

ForteSJGR wrote...
but what I meant was If the game starts falling apart at the halfway point by itself that I would be p.o'd.  Not to mention the bugs....:sick:

Ahh yeah, cut content + bugs. Doesn't change that much. The game was rushed by Luca$Art$ for Holiday season, but even with bugs & cut content it's still great. Not to mention, TSL Content Restoration Mod fixes those issues.

#233
Eustacia

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Are we talking about KOTOR 2? That was a fantastic game and so was the writing.

Modifié par Eustacia, 27 novembre 2011 - 09:26 .


#234
ForteSJGR

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IsaacShep wrote...
Absolutely serious. The writing is fantastic, a rare example how video games can rival best written movies/books.
---------
Ahh yeah, cut content + bugs. Doesn't change that much. The game was rushed by Luca$Art$ for Holiday season, but even with bugs & cut content it's still great. Not to mention, TSL Content Restoration Mod fixes those issues.

Not gonna lie at the "Ahh yeah, cut content + bugs" I imagined the turian councilman saying this.  Yeah I guess looking back I did enjoy the story and really haven't played it since the restoration mods became available.  But i still prefer KOTOr's story. and the customizing of the second.

#235
CerberusWarrior

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Hellbound555 wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

"It could make up for the failings to do so in the past"

I..uh,er,what?

Of course, it is its own game? It really, really doesn't need to be enjoyed in comparison or in the same time with something else?

Anyway, mark my words. There'll be some rage come release due to the unresolved debate of having your consequences and choices be a)important on the universe, b)important on the feelings of the player.

There'll be people complaining because they couldn't choose if a specific race would survive or not, and there will be people complaining about the potential sacrifice of squadmates. As long as I am able to roleplay my own character and enjoy the story, I don't personally care about huge consequences that much. I mean, yeah, it'd be cool to decide if I have to sacrifice the volus or the elcor, but it's not as important to me as enjoying a great roleplaying tale with a great cast of characters by my side.

Just wait and see, you'll see that I'll be right in the long run.
Take a look at the Cerberus apologizers. Upon the confirmation that Cerberus are the bad guys in ME3, even they simultaneously complain about a)BioWare trying too hard to show that Cerberus is evil, even though they personally "know" that they are not, b)Claim that their "choices" have been reduced to nothing, and that BioWare doesn't understand Cerberus as much as they do.

The sheer madness is somewhat not surprising.

   


Oh please there was a ton of cry babies who hated working with Cerberus in 2 and wow oh look they are bad guys in 3 . yeah thats a developer doing a big fat ass kiss to a certain group of fans . yeah dam right the whole Mass Effect create your own story with choices is a joke why because Bioware only gives a dam about the paragons and the good choices .  I have much respect for Skyrim and other games that have real choice in their games . Nah the cry babies who whined and complained during ME 2 should throw a party at what ME 3 is . there is no such thing as choice in ME 3 its all a one sided system where the paragons get all the glory .


this isn't skyrim.

   



I know its not skyrim

#236
shepskisaac

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ForteSJGR wrote...

Yeah I guess looking back I did enjoy the story and really haven't played it since the restoration mods became available.  But i still prefer KOTOr's story. and the customizing of the second.

Little gameplay improvements from K2 like customization also add to why I like it more than K1. But of course K1 is also great. But K2 is the ESB of KOTOR never-happened trilogy.

#237
Terror_K

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Phaedon wrote...

"It could make up for the failings to do so in the past"

I..uh,er,what?

Of course, it is its own game? It really, really doesn't need to be enjoyed in comparison or in the same time with something else?

Anyway, mark my words. There'll be some rage come release due to the unresolved debate of having your consequences and choices be a)important on the universe, b)important on the feelings of the player.

There'll be people complaining because they couldn't choose if a specific race would survive or not, and there will be people complaining about the potential sacrifice of squadmates. As long as I am able to roleplay my own character and enjoy the story, I don't personally care about huge consequences that much. I mean, yeah, it'd be cool to decide if I have to sacrifice the volus or the elcor, but it's not as important to me as enjoying a great roleplaying tale with a great cast of characters by my side.

Just wait and see, you'll see that I'll be right in the long run.
Take a look at the Cerberus apologizers. Upon the confirmation that Cerberus are the bad guys in ME3, even they simultaneously complain about a)BioWare trying too hard to show that Cerberus is evil, even though they personally "know" that they are not, b)Claim that their "choices" have been reduced to nothing, and that BioWare doesn't understand Cerberus as much as they do.

The sheer madness is somewhat not surprising.


Well, I was referring more to import choices than anything. The whole "import across three games and write your own story" aspect was Mass Effect's big claim to fame, banner waving feature originally, but ME2 reduced most outcomes to diddily and squat when it came to meaningful consequences, as well as diverting the focus of the plot in ME2 away from aspects that seemed to be important in ME1. What I meant is that ME3 migght fix the damage by actually having some more varied and deeper consequences, especially since it's the final part. With nowhere else go go, they should be free to go nuts, which is what Casey Hudson basically said shortly after ME2 came out. The question is as to whether they will, or whether it'll be ME2 all over again.

They've got a chance. We've got Kaidan or Ashley back in full force now, which really gives them a chance to open them up beyond the weak clones of each other that were barely explored in ME2. Horizon was extremely weak, and now ME3 has a chance to make up for it. Many felt that LotSB for instance made up for much of what was wrong with vanilla Liara and her part in ME2, and ME3 could do the same for Kaidan and Ashley. Same for The Council and their fate. I would have said the same for Anderson or Udina, but that's been retconned. Garrus, Tali or almost anybody else surviving or not surviving ME2 should have a fairly big impact. Wrex's fate from ME1 should too, and not just have Wreav in his place again given what we've seen of the Sur'kesh stuff. Same goes for Mordin here. Legion should have massive differences regarding what you did with him in the first place and then what choice regarding The Geth you made. The list goes on, and the question is still, "will this stuff really matter?" Will it make a big difference, or just colour the dialogue through circumstances that are otherwise identical and that's it?

One thing ME2 actually did well in a few cases (yes, that's right... I'm giving a positive comment to ME2) was showing us changes within the game itself paying off. One of the best examples of this is what you did with both Veetor and Kal'Reegar affects what happens later on The Migrant Fleet. Simply put, "more of this!" for ME3. One of the few good imports from ME1 to ME2 was also Gianna Parasini, whose presence was determined by choices you made in ME1, but also had varied dialogue related to both how you dealt with her in the original game, but also with what you do in ME2. It also provided a unique, proper quest with multiple options only available if certain conditions were met regarding ME1, rather than just a cameo. The same could have been said for Shiala's quest if she wasn't also weakly substituted by a generic Feros colonist had she been killed with the mission being identical otherwise. That's an example of how you don't do it.

#238
Terror_K

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CerberusWarrior wrote...

Mass Effect 1 is the biggest piece of crap game I ever saw and played .


Then why are you even on a Mass Effect fan forum, let alone the official one? :blink:

#239
MassStorm

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CerberusWarrior wrote...

Mass Effect 1 is the biggest piece of crap game I ever saw and played .


You are clearly joking.........right? right? :blink:

#240
Bryy_Miller

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Terror_K wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...

Mass Effect 1 is the biggest piece of crap game I ever saw and played .


Then why are you even on a Mass Effect fan forum, let alone the official one? :blink:


Maybe they liked Mass Effect 2?

Let's not write everyone off as a Complainer right off the bat.

#241
Nashiktal

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Terror_K wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...

Mass Effect 1 is the biggest piece of crap game I ever saw and played .


Then why are you even on a Mass Effect fan forum, let alone the official one? :blink:


Its doubly confusing when you consider that ME2's gameplay was also generic, or (or is it competent? Not trying insulting mass effect here) at best when compared to most other TPS's.

Choice and story are what make and tie so many people to the game and help to stand it out from the usual crowd. It honestly confuses me why anyone would stay for the gameplay itself, and that is what made up for the sub par aspects of ME1's gameplay.

#242
Fiery Phoenix

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Nashiktal wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...

Mass Effect 1 is the biggest piece of crap game I ever saw and played .


Then why are you even on a Mass Effect fan forum, let alone the official one? :blink:


Its doubly confusing when you consider that ME2's gameplay was also generic, or (or is it competent? Not trying insulting mass effect here) at best when compared to most other TPS's.

Choice and story are what make and tie so many people to the game and help to stand it out from the usual crowd. It honestly confuses me why anyone would stay for the gameplay itself, and that is what made up for the sub par aspects of ME1's gameplay.

Agreed. I never play BioWare's games to play them; I play them to experience them. If I want to play a game to play it, I have Gears of War, Call of Duty, and Halo.

#243
Biotic Sage

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Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...

Mass Effect 1 is the biggest piece of crap game I ever saw and played .


Then why are you even on a Mass Effect fan forum, let alone the official one? :blink:


Its doubly confusing when you consider that ME2's gameplay was also generic, or (or is it competent? Not trying insulting mass effect here) at best when compared to most other TPS's.

Choice and story are what make and tie so many people to the game and help to stand it out from the usual crowd. It honestly confuses me why anyone would stay for the gameplay itself, and that is what made up for the sub par aspects of ME1's gameplay.

Agreed. I never play BioWare's games to play them; I play them to experience them. If I want to play a game to play it, I have Gears of War, Call of Duty, and Halo.


Halo (especially the first one) had a pretty good story to experience in the campaign.  Yeah, the multiplayer modes are purely for gameplay, but for a FPS it was pretty much the best story you could get at the time.

#244
Fiery Phoenix

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Halo CE was the only good Halo storywise, really. I hear Reach is good as well but I have yet to try it. Soon, though.

#245
ForteSJGR

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Biotic Sage wrote...

Halo (especially the first one) had a pretty good story to experience in the campaign.  Yeah, the multiplayer modes are purely for gameplay, but for a FPS it was pretty much the best story you could get at the time.


Halo really shines through the Expanded Universe in my opinion.  :)  

#246
Swampthing500

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Terror_K wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...

Mass Effect 1 is the biggest piece of crap game I ever saw and played .


Then why are you even on a Mass Effect fan forum, let alone the official one? :blink:


Because now he can see Ashley's bewbs.

#247
Swampthing500

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IsaacShep wrote...

ForteSJGR wrote...

Yeah I guess looking back I did enjoy the story and really haven't played it since the restoration mods became available.  But i still prefer KOTOr's story. and the customizing of the second.

Little gameplay improvements from K2 like customization also add to why I like it more than K1. But of course K1 is also great. But K2 is the ESB of KOTOR never-happened trilogy.


The only bad thing about Kotor II was the incredibly unsatisfying and poorly-made ending.

#248
Biotic Sage

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Swampthing500 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

ForteSJGR wrote...

Yeah I guess looking back I did enjoy the story and really haven't played it since the restoration mods became available.  But i still prefer KOTOr's story. and the customizing of the second.

Little gameplay improvements from K2 like customization also add to why I like it more than K1. But of course K1 is also great. But K2 is the ESB of KOTOR never-happened trilogy.


The only bad thing about Kotor II was the incredibly unsatisfying and poorly-made ending.


Yeah, that was sooo unsatisfying.  Even with all of the bugs, the terrible level designs, the ridiculously long loading times, the framerate drops, all of it, I still really enjoyed playing through that game haha.  That ending did not live up to the greatness of the rest of the game. 

This makes me REALLYYYY want a KOTOR 3.  Just think of how they could refine/improve the KOTOR formula and graphics after all of these years?  It boggles the mind.  (And no, SWTOR does not count).

#249
Grey34

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wow another complaint thread  i got contempt for almost all you nay sayers and whinners i hope this thread gets locked 

Modifié par Grey34, 27 novembre 2011 - 11:35 .


#250
Guest_The PLC_*

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To be honest, I'm starting to get really worried about this game. Like, REALLY worried.

Please don't disappoint :( End the series with a bang.

Modifié par The PLC, 27 novembre 2011 - 11:43 .