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Is BioWare mad with the fanbase?


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#276
Pride Demon

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Mesina2 wrote...

Pride Demon wrote...

(and the same for many other people I personally respect, such as dydimos, phaedon, mesina, runescapeguy, etc...)


Someone respects me on BSN?=]

Of course, when someone spends time to improve the community, makes thoughtful threads and thoughtful posts (at least as a general rule, anyone can make a few funny posts, even I do, but it must not offend others or be a rule of behaviour, at least in my opinion... :P), and has (or at least tries) to have a reasonable stance on several topics, I respect them...
That includes you and several other, the list in long(-ish), so it includes more than those I posted... :)

One obviously has the right to act in other ways, I aknowledge their right to do so and try not to bash them for it, but I don't need to like it...

Hoping not to have offended anyone (sorry if I did), but this is how I see it...

GMagnum wrote...
cnt we all jus get alon tbh

Ah, were it so easy that one merely needs to ask... :(
My thoughts are yours though... I wish it were possible... :/

Modifié par Pride Demon, 27 novembre 2011 - 01:40 .


#277
Harmless Citizen

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I believe you missed her point. She wasn't QQing about MP and the focus on action gameplay; her concern is that this is the only thing BW has heavily advertised. And in an RPG game series allegedly concerned with choices and how those choices affect the narrative, that's more than fair.

#278
whywhywhywhy

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Someone With Mass wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...
Take your own advice:police:


Wow. You really told me there.

One step up from "NO U"

Unfortunately for you I'm not interested in a childish exchange of insults.  Maybe your interest lies in these things as a meaningful rational exchange seems beyond your reach.  This is why I ignore you and brush you aside, it's beneath me.  Hopefully now that I've explained this you'll move along.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 27 novembre 2011 - 01:45 .


#279
Harmless Citizen

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Getting on a forum dedicated to a game you hate (without having played it, mind you) for the express purpose of moaning seems pretty childish to me.

#280
Someone With Mass

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whywhywhywhy wrote...
Unfortunately for you I'm not interested in a childish exchange of insults.  Maybe your interest lies in these things as a meaningful rational exchange seems beyond your reach.  This is why I ignore you and brush you aside, it's beneath me.  Hopefully now that I've explained this you'll move along.


The old superiority card that's played when the writer lacks an actual argument. That's a classic move.

Anyway, I don't think they're mad at the fanbase. Tired would be a more accurate description.

I mean, there was a point where most of them posted on this forum. Now, they're almost never posting, unless it's some kind of clarification. There's a reason for that.

#281
Terror_K

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Random Nobody wrote...

I believe you missed her point.


Man, I need to stop using a Femshep avatar. :P

She wasn't QQing about MP and the focus on action gameplay; her concern is that this is the only thing BW has heavily advertised. And in an RPG game series allegedly concerned with choices and how those choices affect the narrative, that's more than fair.


You're half right. I understand to a degree that these are the newer features, so they're going to go on about them. I also understand that after ME2 marketing resulted in too many spoilers for many that they're reticent to show too much in that regard either.

But to be honest, I'm not a big fan of the stuff they are going on about either. In fact, that's putting it mildly. When this is supposed to be the epic ending to the trilogy, to me that should mean that there's lots of variations and branching in the narrative, with really diverse and meaningful import choices made to satisfy and appeal to the fans who came in on the ground floor. It should be an epic, masterful tour de force that brings the whole thing to a satisfying conclusion and has better gameplay than both previous games, more features and a truly brilliant single player experience.

Instead, what am I getting. A bunch of nonsense going on about melee combat as if it's a necessary new addition that only makes me feel time and effort was wasted on a gameplay element that should be secondary at best. Kinect support, which just makes me think time and resources are being wasted on a stupid casual-gamer fad that should be kept out of hardcore gaming entirely. Sudden introduction of multuplayer, which just makes me think time and resources were spent on something superfluous and only targeted at the mainstream shooter gamer rather than making the single player the best it could be. Nonsense comments from BioWare about this being "the best place to jump in" and how much the game stands on its own independently, and how RPGs as we once knew them are things of the past now. Harping on about a silly glowing spike all the time and putting it everywhere they can in advertising to shove it down my throat as if it's the most badass thing ever invented, etc.

Simply put, almost everything they go on about with Mass Effect 3 makes me doubt the competency, direction and mindset of the people making it, as well as making me doubt that this is even the same series I fell in love with back in 2007. It just seems more and more like they're not even aiming this at me any more, and that this is made less for fans of RPGs and classic sci-fi and more and more aimed at today's more casual, mainstream gamer who won't give a damn about it outside of it being another brief stop between the next CoD or Halo game. I got into Mass Effect because it seemed like an intelligent, well-designed series made for me that avoided all the pandering mainstream crap that BioWare now seem to be embracing.

To sum it up: this isn't just stuff I'm not interested in, it's stuff I hate and simply don't want in my game, and that I only feel is going to detract from the experience and end up misdirecting and squandering the potential of the series.

#282
didymos1120

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whywhywhywhy wrote...

Unfortunately for you I'm not interested in a childish exchange of insults.  Maybe your interest lies in these things as a meaningful rational exchange seems beyond your reach. 


So, in order to establish your lack of interest in exchanging insults....you resort to an insult? 

#283
Guest_Mr.X.Pen_*

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To be honest I really don't mind if they're keeping things under wraps because it leaves the fans to speculate more. But the only things we seem to know regarding the war is that the Reapers have caused major havok already, making people worry how exactly wer're going to stop the Reapers.

#284
Dreadwing 67

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Terror_K wrote...

You're half right. I understand to a degree that these are the newer features, so they're going to go on about them. I also understand that after ME2 marketing resulted in too many spoilers for many that they're reticent to show too much in that regard either.

But to be honest, I'm not a big fan of the stuff they are going on about either. In fact, that's putting it mildly. When this is supposed to be the epic ending to the trilogy, to me that should mean that there's lots of variations and branching in the narrative, with really diverse and meaningful import choices made to satisfy and appeal to the fans who came in on the ground floor. It should be an epic, masterful tour de force that brings the whole thing to a satisfying conclusion and has better gameplay than both previous games, more features and a truly brilliant single player experience.

Instead, what am I getting. A bunch of nonsense going on about melee combat as if it's a necessary new addition that only makes me feel time and effort was wasted on a gameplay element that should be secondary at best. Kinect support, which just makes me think time and resources are being wasted on a stupid casual-gamer fad that should be kept out of hardcore gaming entirely. Sudden introduction of multuplayer, which just makes me think time and resources were spent on something superfluous and only targeted at the mainstream shooter gamer rather than making the single player the best it could be. Nonsense comments from BioWare about this being "the best place to jump in" and how much the game stands on its own independently, and how RPGs as we once knew them are things of the past now. Harping on about a silly glowing spike all the time and putting it everywhere they can in advertising to shove it down my throat as if it's the most badass thing ever invented, etc.

Simply put, almost everything they go on about with Mass Effect 3 makes me doubt the competency, direction and mindset of the people making it, as well as making me doubt that this is even the same series I fell in love with back in 2007. It just seems more and more like they're not even aiming this at me any more, and that this is made less for fans of RPGs and classic sci-fi and more and more aimed at today's more casual, mainstream gamer who won't give a damn about it outside of it being another brief stop between the next CoD or Halo game. I got into Mass Effect because it seemed like an intelligent, well-designed series made for me that avoided all the pandering mainstream crap that BioWare now seem to be embracing.

To sum it up: this isn't just stuff I'm not interested in, it's stuff I hate and simply don't want in my game, and that I only feel is going to detract from the experience and end up misdirecting and squandering the potential of the series.


In all honesty, I am fine with marketing up to this point only because they are trying to lure in new people. I do not understand it, but we this is how these people make a living. I would expect marketing to pick up after the holidays and when SWOTOR is released. The RPG talk is out there, and I've seen it in the leaked demos, it just hasn't been the main focus.

I would not put the mindset of the developers based on advirtisement and such, as I said they need money and as much people to buy the game as they can. I do believe that they will make a satisfying conclusion (not guranteed). But I refuse to let the fear or hurt on these forums, the leaked script or marketing determine how I feel going into the epic game.

Modifié par Dreadwing 67, 27 novembre 2011 - 03:40 .


#285
KingDan97

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EDIT: Wall of text alert, each paragraph is intended as a separate argument, you don't need to read it all.



Somehow I doubt Bioware as an entity would try and "punish" it's "fans". Have any of you philistines ever heard the phrase cutting off your nose to spite your face. Bioware can't afford to be petty with it's consumer base, but what they also can't afford is to risk throwing out their top tier marketing only to be drowned out in the Falll Gaming flood or to risk drowning out it's own product with a product that is farther off on their timetables. Regardless of what they may think of these forums, and the people on them(and I'm sure they'd have some very choice words for you all if given the chance to be very frank with you, since you make your days tearing down things they put years of their lives into) you are not a majority of their consumer base, you may think you represent a sample size but you don't. Most gamers who play any game whatsoever only touch forums if they're having bugs, and even then Yahoo Answers is more likely to be their first stop instead.


In spite of that however, I do feel the need to address some of the concerns voiced. Please, regard each paragraph as if it were a separate post, because I am not trying to make some larger statement spanning all 3.


The first series to ever allow save imports to drastically change who lives and dies within your world and Bioware isn't being innovative enough. Seriously? The only game to my knowledge that even planned something in that vein at any point was Banjo Kazooie, and that was trashed because it would involve cartridge swaps. You may not be happy with the e-mails, hell I'm not either but that doesn't change the fact that what Bioware is doing is revolutionary for a game as nonlinear as the Mass Effect series, and regardless of what you thought about the storyline(note the last half of that word people, it's a pretty important thing to consider that it's a line, A to B) the choices in ME2 can still easily have drastic impacts within ME3, regardless of what the leaked first draft said. Even if you felt that your choices in every single sidequest in ME1 weren't as good as you wanted them, they were still there, and that's still a huge thing for a game to pull off for all the content that might not have happened or might have had several different permutations.


There's not enough unique loot when you're going through an entire world made of weapons and armor that slide off an assembly line? I mean to that I am just baffled, there's literally no justification for having unique weapons in the Mass Effect universe, you can't upgrade to military level, everything is military level already because you're IN the Military. This isn't a fantasy RPG where there's an ancient broadsword with +5 stamina lying at the bottom of a crypt okay, the hardest thing you realistically need to do to pick up a new weapon is go onto Space Amazon and wait for shipping, It's.not even that complex in ME2 because they could send EDI the schematics and she could produce hundreds of them. Loot is useless, ME1 proved that because no matter how many chests you opened you were gonna get one of 8 brands, and one of 10 levels for anything you picked up, and the levels were based on your level so really unless you just hit a new tier, you were only getting the same tiered stuff as what you had.


I have something else to say, it's tangential, but I feel it's an opinion that needs to be voiced because otherwise the tunnel-visioned group who believe that they are the chosen RPG master race, sons of Zelda and TES: Arena are going to continue their tyrades. RPGs are no longer a standalone genre, all of the things that have been largely accepted as RPG staples are only now more visibly becoming things that happen on the side, since they've always just been draped over whatever the base gameplay systems were in the past anyway. If you were to only package RPG features into a box it would be a fundamentally incomplete game, because RPGs by definition are so vague that any core gameplay system(TPS, FPS, Hack N' Slash) needs to have RPG features built around it to be able to be actually played as anything more than dice rolls. You can claim that Bioware is making Hybrid games but RPGs in video game form have always been hybrids, I mean Arena was built to be in the same vein as Doom until they realized that people had more fun just walking around then mucking through the story. RPGs have been blurred even farther since Modern Warfare because now basic RPG features of levels, perks, customizing weaponry, are all standards in shooters as well. You may think that the RPG features in ME2 weren't enough, and to a degree I'd have to agree with you but it isn't the fault of Gears of War, or Call of Duty, it's an issue of implementation.

Modifié par KingDan97, 27 novembre 2011 - 04:32 .


#286
Trinity66

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Well, guys, goota say you pretty much ruined my hype for M3, hehe. I was really excited before, but after reading this whole thread (still don't know why) I realize that there ar emany valid points there ,the most disturbing one would be how the game became more action oriented.
I loved ME1, it was such an expiriance I almost cried when i finished it. I'm watching Me3 gameplay videos and I realize I'm not even excited about combat part, even though i like action shooter games, but I don't see and I've never thought of ME in that way (like shooter game). It was always awesome RPG.
That changed in ME2 of course and now I'm really worried about ME3. Of course it will be fun to play, but as many people said .. seems like we're getting shooter game. It's sad.

Modifié par Trinity66, 27 novembre 2011 - 04:44 .


#287
felipejiraya

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I've created a monster.

#288
Takio

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Trinity66 wrote...

Well, guys, goota say you pretty much ruined my hype for M3, hehe. I was really excited before, but after reading this whole thread (still don't know why) I realize that there ar emany valid points there ,the most disturbing one would be how the game became more action oriented.
I loved ME1, it was such an expiriance I almost cried when i finished it. I'm watching Me3 gameplay videos and I realize I'm not even excited about combat part, even though i like action shooter games, but I don't see and I've never thought of ME in that way (like shooter game). It was always awesome RPG.
That changed in ME2 of course and now I'm really worried about ME3. Of course it will be fun to play, but as many people said .. seems like we're getting shooter game. It's sad.


Then the chance that you'll completely love it after playing it, will make it that much sweeter. 

IMO, watching someone play a demo is completely different from playing it yourself. Playing it yourself, you feel a plethora of emotions that simply don't happen if someone else is playing it. 

And people keep saying how ME is going to be like GoW and CoD, but I'm not seeing it. I'm not seeing using people as meatshields, over-the-top gore and blood, bunny-hopping, bloody executions, using a chainsaw rifle, scripted bullet-time events, dual-wielding guns, or even a PvP MP mode. 

Modifié par Takio, 27 novembre 2011 - 04:56 .


#289
Il Divo

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Ghost-621 wrote...

They've done more than gone out of their way to rattle every ME1 fan's cage (The fans who have been die-hard committed to the story from the start).
 


Would you mind showing me your statistical evidence, validating the belief that every ME1 fan is angry with Bioware? You've got alot to prove, it seems.  

I should also point out that it's possible to enjoy every game in the series, while still being committed to the story.

Modifié par Il Divo, 27 novembre 2011 - 05:00 .


#290
felipejiraya

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The large amount of ****storms that are occurring here in BSN in the past few days only strengthens my point: BioWare need to release new information, people are going insane.

#291
Guest_Mr.X.Pen_*

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felipejiraya wrote...

The large amount of ****storms that are occurring here in BSN in the past few days only strengthens my point: BioWare need to release new information, people are going insane.

The closer we get to that the day ME3 is released the more we'll know of it. But I agree with you.

#292
CerberusWarrior

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release more info . did releasing info on gears 3 by epic hurt it sales hell no .

#293
Someone With Mass

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CerberusWarrior wrote...

release more info . did releasing info on gears 3 by epic hurt it sales hell no .


Because Gears of War 3 and Mass Effect 3 are so much a like.

...

No, they're not.

#294
CerberusWarrior

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Someone With Mass wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...

release more info . did releasing info on gears 3 by epic hurt it sales hell no .


Because Gears of War 3 and Mass Effect 3 are so much a like.

...

No, they're not.

   


Thats not the point releasing more info does not hurt sales . 

#295
Someone With Mass

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CerberusWarrior wrote...
Thats not the point releasing more info does not hurt sales . 


You don't know that.

#296
Harmless Citizen

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Actually, we sort of do.

>Old script leaked
>Four megatons of b!tching
>"I'm cancelling my preorder and telling all my friends!!"

#297
DoNotIngest

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GMagnum wrote...

casey hudson is on roids he went 2 da microsoft office n thru da dude thru da roof caught him den did a spinebuster on da floor n paralyzed da dude poor jason i hurd he want 2 be a ballroom dancer tbh




dam dat hella ruff tbh hope he do well in da weelchair ballroom dancin casey got me skurred sometimes tbh dude need a chill n smoke sum bluntz.





da BSN keep up all dis b!tchin n we gon have da million n 1 dalmationz here tbh

#298
CerberusWarrior

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Someone With Mass wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...
Thats not the point releasing more info does not hurt sales . 


You don't know that.

   


Did it hurt Skyrim and they released tons of vids and info hell no it sold 5 Million + already . Bioware is bowing down to a certain fan group who do not want to know  anything about the game . The rest of us and I am sure possible new comers would like to know more about this game .

#299
Someone With Mass

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CerberusWarrior wrote...

Did it hurt Skyrim and they released tons of vids and info hell no it sold 5 Million + already . Bioware is bowing down to a certain fan group who do not want to know  anything about the game . The rest of us and I am sure possible new comers would like to know more about this game .


That "certain fan group" would be the majority of this forum that got royaly pissed off after the ME2 trailers had spoilers in them that include the identity of Archangel and clips from the last mission.

And no, I can't possible care less about what Skyrim did.

#300
Harmless Citizen

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CW, your complaint for everything is "BW is bowing down to fan groups!!" It's called a timetable. The game is still being polished. I have yet to see an "I Support No Marketing!" group.

Seriously GTFO with that nonsense.