591 réponses à ce sujet

[C9316]

I really don't understand why people really love ME1 as if it was perfect and hate ME2, I guess most people just love weird inventory systems and crappy combat controls. To me the universe, the characters we've come to love (and in some cases hate), and the story are still there. Was I completely satisfied with ME2? No, and I could also list the things I considered flaws in ME2 like most people here.

Now I support having more sidequests in the game and things like that, but seeing how the story is about a galatic war across the entire universe it wouldn't make sense for the sidequests to be completely detached from the main story.

From what I've seen of the gameplay combat is much more fluid than ever, enemies are smarter, and we have an amount of customization on our various weapons like in ME1. I don't understand how these are bad things...

Modifié par C9316, 28 novembre 2011 - 05:20 .

[ODST 3]

Terror_K wrote...

ODST 3 wrote...

 I don't see that at all. Bioware are the only devs I trust to tell a decent story well. I missed certain RPG elements from ME1 in the second one but for the most part, I want to continue experiencing the story. The writing in all Gears of War games has been atrocious from Day 1, the only reason to play those games in for funny brutality and smooth gameplay. Mass Effect has a rich universe and fleshed out story that hasn't overtly disappointed me yet. I much preferred Mass Effect 2's inventory to the needlessly complex and micro-managing one of ME 1. The side-quests were better connected to the main story. The gameplay was way smoother and more rewarding with a much more intelligent controller interface. There's going to be the most action in ME 3 because the biggest war in 50,000 years is going on, that doesn't mean it's another mindless shooter.

Well, I disagree with a lot of your preferences regarding ME2. At the moment it really is only the universe, story, characters and import stuff that's keeping me interested in Mass Effect. I fell too hard in love with the IP originally for it to be killed yet, but after ME3 I'm not sure if I'll still consider Mass Effect to be "this Century's Star Trek and Star Wars" any more.

But I personally preferred a clumsy inventory that allowed me to play at least than no inventory at all and a system that did everything for me. I prefer sidequests that are actually sidequests so that things aren't solely focused on the one thing and prefer proper set-ups, dialogue and polish than just having my Shepard and his/her team running around silently shooting guys or doing a gimmicky little experiment with no consequences or threat that's only found by throwing down a probe. And I prefer a contoll interface that doesn't map sprint, take-cover, vault and use/interact to the same key. Just for some examples of how I don't agree with ME2 doing things better.

What do you mean no inventory? You get to choose your loadout from an inventory of all useful weapons. I agree it would be more exciting to find these weapons as you went along and customize them with gadgets but I'd rather have that than another Kessler just to convert to omni-gel, which inexplicably opens doors and heals my car.

Shooting guys in ME 1 was actually a lot more silent because of a frequent lack of impact sound effects and poor physics. The interface in ME 1, rather than using one button to do multiple tasks, instead used three buttons to do one task, for example both triggers and X would draw weapons. I found this very unnecessary and wasteful. What specifically do you miss about ME 1? Which of these side sidequests added so much more to the ME1 world?

Modifié par ODST 3, 28 novembre 2011 - 05:20 .

[hitorihanzo]

Irrelevant, completely off-topic, but I have to ask: how many people upset at BioWare are from Europe?

[Harmless Citizen]

Disappointed with a lot of developments, but on the whole I'm optimistic for ME3.

I'm English.

[Sylvianus]

In any case, what I find strange is that some people throw their hatred on other communities of players, because Bioware decided to try to attract them. These people have they done anything to you? Did they steal your orange juice for breakfast ? Is it their fault if Bioware wants to attract them ? They didn't ask anything. So some folks need to calm down. This childish jealousy that is behind all their prejudices should be put aside.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 28 novembre 2011 - 05:23 .

[Harmless Citizen]

Live in the States for school, though, if that makes a difference.

[someguy1231]

If BSN is representative of Bioware's fanbase, then they have very good reasons to be mad at them.

And for everyone complaining that ME3 is catering too much to shooter fans, I'll take the CoD/GoW crowd over the "Bioware are sexist because Femshep has blonde hair!"/"Mass Effect should be a Dating Sim!"/"Glorious RPG-playing master race!" crowd anyday.

Modifié par someguy1231, 28 novembre 2011 - 05:31 .

[CerberusWarrior]

Gatt9 wrote...

Bluko wrote...

felipejiraya wrote...

Hell, since the infamous (and apocryphal) leaks the amount of new information about the game decreased a lot.

Aside the little snipets from BioWare Pulse, the CE trailer and Invasion there is nothing substantial: no new gameplay trailers, no updates on "N7 Ops", the developers are less active on twitter...the list goes on.

I don't want their marketing becomes spoilerish like ME2 but they really could throw something new to us because to me it seems they're punishing us because of the leaks.

Well, you guys can bash me now. lol

Well for starters Bioware has probably released more information then most Developers do on the game. I mean with Skyrim I honestly had no clue what'd it'd be like since there was only a handful of screenshots and a few breif gameplay trailers.

Also Bioware has to be careful with Story Elements since they don't want Spoliers to spread. (This leak has been a very major problem as now individuals can disclose possible spoilers at will.) See this upsets the "Spoiler Babies" as I like to call them, since apparently knowing a few things that happen ruins the entire experience. Personally I'd rather see parts of the game even if it does spoil some things for me. I like to know what I'm getting, but I guess I'm just old-fashioned. Heck it's pretty rare I delve into a game without referring to a guide before-hand so I usually come across spoilers anyways.


Though truth be told they could show some more gameplay. (Funny people thought this game would be ready for a November release...) But I'm sure they will show more closer to the Holiday season. Right now Bioware is focused on selling SW: TOR as that has been a huge investment for them. If The Old Republic turns out to be another MMO flop I could forsee EA bringing the axe down on Bioware so this is a big deal for them. Though I think TOR is pretty well set to be the next "WoW" as it is.

I don't really see Bioware being angry so much as afraid. Bioware seems especially fearful of fan reactions sometimes to the point where they outright lie or hide things. I often am left to wonder how much damage has been wraught by the vein efforts to appease relatively small groups of the playerbase, of which the majority is probably unconcerned about. I think Bioware could do with being a little more direct and active in the community as it were. I'm not sure why they leave BSN to madness and hysteria. Granted the internet is a crazy and unforgiving place, but you got to be willing to dare the fire if you want to put out the flames.

The reasons for everything you mention are contained here...

http://www.vg247.com...d-our-way-back/

Bethseda's...um...behavior,  the way EA Bioware works,  and the reasons for so many shennagins with Metacritic reviews are all in there.  A number of studios let their developers write User Reviews as if they were regular people,  including EA.

But honestly,  the explanation for ME2 and the schizophrenic design of ME3 aren't all that hard to discern.  EA paid what?  700 million for Bioware?  Star Wars is around 80-100 million in development costs?  the Pop-cap deal costs between 800 mill and 1 billion dollars? 

Gamespot reported that Bulletstorm underperformed,  we know DA2 bombed,  EA was reporting units shipped instead of units sold for Dead Space 2,  in their quarterly,  which is a strong indicator it performed badly.  Shadows of the Damned bombed harder than DA2.  NFL's first week sales were down around 200 million units,  which should work out to around 15% or so (Though they claimed revenues were up).  I've gotten the impression that BF3 didn't sell nearly as well as they wanted.

In short,  from an investing standpoint,  I do not like the signs.  Enourmous amounts of money going out,  and indications are that they are underperforming with all products. 

So it's no surprise that EA's plan is to mitigate risk by trying to appeal to the widest possible market,  they cannot afford too many more misses.  From everything I've read,  it doesn't look like anything they tried in 2011 succeeded as expected. 

The problem is,  this is an entertainment medium.  You cannot be everything to everyone.  You cannot make an RPG and a full-on Shooter with no RPG elements in it.  You cannot design by what would make a good bullet point on the back of the box.

I actually haven't read the script,  since I haven't yet cancelled my preorder I don't want to be spoiled,  but the rumblings of a half-baked plot,  questionable companion choices,  and all choice being irrelevant make me nervous.

I hope for Bioware's sake it isn't true.  If this game is a throw-away shooter where nothing from the first two mattered,  the firestorm is going to be history-making epic,  and very likely more than sufficient to tank Star Wars no matter what.  The problem with MMORPG's is,  you need RPG Players.  Disappointing them with DA2 and then publicly insulting them was bad,  following it up with a deeply flawed ME3 would be catastrophic.

It's very likely RPG players won't even give Star Wars a chance if Bioware burns customers a second time with a "Designed by Suits" game again.

   



you clearly have no understanding of what it means to be a publicly traded company . The people running EA answer to the share holders and investors . If they want a game to appeal to a wider audience to make the most money for the company then thats what will be done. Bioware is a wholly owned subsidary of EA . EA controls the ME Ip in all honesty .  Yeah EA has had a rough feel years so I am sure BF 3 has helped some but with the money they spent on buying Bioware dam right if I was a share holder I would want to see any game made by bioware sell a ass ton of copies and if that means screwing rpg fans so be it .  The Star Wars mmo will sell because of the Star Wars brand and us Star Wars fans as well those who only give a dam because Bioware made it . If I was EA dam right I would make ME 3 appeal and marketed it to everyone . Bioware is no longer a indie developer its high time people on BSN learn to deal with it

[Jaron Oberyn]

Considering how long ff versus 13 has been in development it better be good!

But back on topic tbh.


-Polite

[AdmiralCheez]

Is Bioware mad at their fanbase?

Not sure.

But I am.

I am pissed as hell, guys.

[CerberusWarrior]

Bioware chose its side with us fans and it was the ME 1 / VS fans side . so yeah you dam right us ME 2 fans are pissed at them . Its clear Mass Effect 2 does not mean **** in the ME Universe.

[C9316]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Is Bioware mad at their fanbase?

Not sure.

But I am.

I am pissed as hell, guys.

That's understandable, most people here are arrogant pricks anyway...

[Drone223]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Is Bioware mad at their fanbase?

Not sure.

But I am.

I am pissed as hell, guys.

Not suprised those who complain about how "ME3 will suck" can't be bothered doing something more constructive (sp) with thier time

[DoNotIngest]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Is Bioware mad at their fanbase?

Not sure.

But I am.

I am pissed as hell, guys.

*whimper*

[Harmless Citizen]

Final Fantasy Vapourware XIII.

PROVE ME WRONG.

[Swampthing500]

Sylvianus wrote...

In any case, what I find strange is that some people throw their hatred on other communities of players, because Bioware decided to try to attract them. These people have they done anything to you? Did they steal your orange juice for breakfast ? Is it their fault if Bioware wants to attract them ? They didn't ask anything. So some folks need to calm down. This childish jealousy that is behind all their prejudices should be put aside.

The hostility stems from the fact that in order to attract such players ME becomes less of an rpg and more of a shooter without dialogue or quest choices.

[Terror_K]

ODST 3 wrote...

What do you mean no inventory? You get to choose your loadout from an inventory of all useful weapons. I agree it would be more exciting to find these weapons as you went along and customize them with gadgets but I'd rather have that than another Kessler just to convert to omni-gel, which inexplicably opens doors and heals my car.

It really was no more of an inventory than the weapons you collect in any shooter. When later CoD games have more customisation and options weapon-wise than a supposed RPG, you know that the aspect is sorely lacking. Granted this should be changing for ME3, but you specifically mentioned ME2's so-called "improvements" so that's what I mentioned.

Shooting guys in ME 1 was actually a lot more silent because of a frequent lack of impact sound effects and poor physics. The interface in ME 1, rather than using one button to do multiple tasks, instead used three buttons to do one task, for example both triggers and X would draw weapons. I found this very unnecessary and wasteful.

One was draw weapon, the other was shoot weapon, which just also happened to draw it if it wasn't already drawn. I'd rather have redundant systems that putting too many functions on the same button. That may fly on an XBox contoller, but on a PC where you've got dozens of keys and aren't even using most of them, it's clumsy and lazy.

What specifically do you miss about ME 1? Which of these side sidequests added so much more to the ME1 world?

I miss exploring for one. I miss the vast, endless and epic feeling that the UNC worlds gave, which actually made the universe feel vast and showed you not everywhere was bustling, populated and small. I miss actually being given a sidequest via Admiral Hackett, Nassana Dantius, Helena Blake, Admiral Kahoku or some other contact and a proper set-up and conclusion for it. I miss having dialogue choices for it and Shepard and the squaddies commenting (and even being referred to directly in some rare cases) on what's going on. I miss sidequests that spanned mutiple places, had various options and felt like they had weight to them instead of just being more XP or resources, as well as being properly polished. ME2's sidequests (for the most part) were either little isolated experiments or linear little shooting galleries with no real story, set-up or dialogue to them where Shepard ran around silently from datapad to datapad or enemy to enemy with his/her equally silent squaddies. Either that or fetch quests where the items were slapped on an already well beaten path so hamfistedly you couldn't help but collect them (e.g. the trinket on Illium, the manifold on Tuchanka, etc.).

Simply put: I miss the fact that sidequests felt like they added to the world and were properly integrated into it naturally, rather than feeling slapped on as a bunch of gamey, forced content or cheap little gimmicky experiments on a bunch of linear little A to B areas. They wouldn't have been so bad had they been polished better, and actually had proper set-ups, some dialogue, some interesting NPCs and choices and overall were more than just a "to do" tick-list for completionists sake. I was interested in what was going on with Admiral Kahoku, Nassana Dantius, Helena Blake, etc. with the ME1 quests, even if the core gameplay was basically the same in most cases. In ME2 I can barely remember anything side mission-wise that made me care about what was happening. There was next to no effort made to properly integrate it into the rest of the game in a natural way or dress it up in the slightest.

Sylvianus wrote...

In any case, what I find strange is that some people throw their hatred on other communities of players, because Bioware decided to try to attract them. These people have they done anything to you? Did they steal your orange juice for breakfast ? Is it their fault if Bioware wants to attract them ? They didn't ask anything. So some folks need to calm down. This childish jealousy that is behind all their prejudices should be put aside.

What did they do to us? You mean aside from it resulting in the games we once loved and enjoyed getting dumbed down and mainstreamlined to make it more like the games they've already got plenty of while the rest of us are starving for a good, deep RPG?

The problem isn't so much the branching out and trying to attract a bigger and more mainstream audience in and of itself so much as what becomes of the game(s) in the process of doing so. They're essentially both taking out or dumbing down the stuff I love about RPGs and adding factors I don't want in my RPGs at the same time to do so.

And quite frankly, I don't see why a group of people with plenty already on their plate deserve to get even more heaped on it while others sit back with nothing but the crumbs from a few years ago.

Modifié par Terror_K, 28 novembre 2011 - 06:09 .

[CerberusWarrior]

Drone223 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Is Bioware mad at their fanbase?

Not sure.

But I am.

I am pissed as hell, guys.

Not suprised those who complain about how "ME3 will suck" can't be bothered doing something more constructive (sp) with thier time

   


Oh I am sorry after listening to the cry babies whine about 2 and us ME 2 fans had to deal it . so get ready if ME 3 is just like the leaked stuff there will be a some rage on here

[Terror_K]

Drone223 wrote...

Not suprised those who complain about how "ME3 will suck" can't be bothered doing something more constructive (sp) with thier time

I wouldn't say that "ME3 will suck" per se. Just that, given what I've read, that it will fall far short of initial expectations, still be made more to bring in new fans than for the fans who have been in from the ground floor and overall that BioWare have squandered and wasted time on unnecessary factors instead of really making the best final part of the series.

ME3 should the best one and an epic finale to the series, not just... adequate or decent or even simply good.

Modifié par Terror_K, 28 novembre 2011 - 06:13 .

[Swampthing500]

Terror_K wrote...

Drone223 wrote...

Not suprised those who complain about how "ME3 will suck" can't be bothered doing something more constructive (sp) with thier time

I wouldn't say that "ME3 will suck" per se. Just that, given what I've read, that it will fall far short of initial expectations, still be made more to bring in new fans than for the fans who have been in from the ground floor and overall that BioWare have squandered and wasted time on unnecessary factors instead of really making the best final part of the series.

ME3 should the best one and an epic finale to the series, not just... adequate or decent or even simply good.

I believe a similar thing happened with DA2. Instead of keeping to the original format/style that fans of origins wanted, they completely changed it and as a result there were much less sales.

[Harmless Citizen]

CW, I think your most used phrase has to be "us ME2 fans." It's like you're part of a oppressed, secret minority group.

...And it should be "we ME2 fans." Just saiyan.

[Sylvianus]

What did they do to us? You mean aside from it resulting in the games we once loved and enjoyed getting dumbed down and mainstreamlined to make it more like the games they've already got plenty of while the rest of us are starving for a good, deep RPG?

So ? that means they are retarded, that means that they are those who love booobies, that means they are those brainless ? it means they are the source of all your problems as you claim? Because Bioware try to attract them ?

What you are saying doesn't make sense at all to justify those kind of things and feelings. . Bioware is the only one who decides, to choose what it want. You can hate some other communities , like an idiot, it does not change anything, just to appear as a fool. It's time to get out of your little world elitist, outdated and obsolete. Almost everyone has a console and a PC, and just about any type of person plays call of duty. ( female, people over 30 years,  students in universities )

DO you realize that most people who play call of duty are over 20 years? So where this  " retarded 14 years old teenager is coming from ? "

You are ridiculous. Simple-minded. In real life you do how ? Or maybe cuz it's just internet.

The problem isn't so much the branching out and trying to attract a bigger and more mainstream audience in and of itself so much as what becomes of the game(s) in the process of doing so. They're essentially both taking out or dumbing down the stuff I love about RPGs and adding factors I don't want in my RPGs at the same time to do so.

And maybe they are wrong, maybe they shouldn't underestimate those they want to attract. yYou think that I am not pissed off after DA2 , by some of their design decision. Did you see me go mad , huuur huurrr  be happy bioware with your new retarded fans you try to attract ? ??? No, because actually, they aren't the problem if you think two seconds.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 28 novembre 2011 - 06:29 .

[Terror_K]

Sylvianus, I'm well aware that the problem isn't with the casual, mainstream gamer and is in fact with the publishers and developers for choosing to cater to them. They're the ones making the games, and thus it's their fault that they're choosing to pander to the mainstream moronic masses. I'm well aware of this.

Also, since my job is actually selling games to people, I think I'm fairly aware at what the general gaming audience consists of these days. And there's a place for the Gears, the CoD's, the Halo's, etc. They're not inherently and automatically bad games, and not everybody who enjoys them is a "retarded 14 year old teenager" to put it in your own words. I've said before that I enjoy shooters, including Gears of War and some of the CoD titles. My favourite game is a shooter: Unreal Tournament.

But that doesn't mean I want every game to be a shooter, or that every game needs to be a shooter, merely because that's where the biggest sales are. And, yes, I do think that BioWare (and others developers/publishers) are clouded by money and other factors and don't really give their audience enough credit when it comes down to it. But the problem is, as long as the majority of the big spenders out there who lap up CoD clones continue to do so and the most mindless and simple games continue being the big sellers, they're going to keep making these type of games. Because making money and satisfying an audience isn't enough. Being original or having actual depth and complexity is meaningless to (most) game developers if you can't make the most amount of money doing it. It's not that a proper Dragon Age sequel or hardcore RPG wouldn't sell and make a profit, it's that it wouldn't get them those luvverly CoD millions. Everybody these days is hocking the same pie to the same group because they feel that's where profit is. AAA games ceased being about creativity and quality a while ago.