591 réponses à ce sujet

[Swampthing500]

111987 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

111987 wrote...

Not to turn this into one of those worn out ME1 VS. ME2 debates, but really, ME1 was just as linear as ME2, and there was just as little impact of your choices (so far) as in ME2 (so far).

Aside from the fact that ME1 actually allowed a few more approaches to a mission now and then aside from a Paragon or Renegade one at the end of a situation, it was actually ME2 that let ME1 down. ME2 should have been where a lot of the impact from ME1's choices was, rather than within ME1 itself.  Unfortunately with a few very rare exceptions, ME2 ended up being too independent and removed from ME1, and the stuff that did carry over was usually either swept under the rug, trivialised to the point of no longer being important or relevant, relegated to a simple substitution that merely coloured situations that should have been radically different or reduced to some emails and nothing else.

ME1 only allowed you to approach Port Hanshan in multiple ways. That's really all I can remember; everything else was fairly linear. But I agree, ME2 could have done a better job of making choice matter, but I do understand that if every choice hugely altered the experience, making a cohesive trilogy would be impossible.

Swampthing500 wrote...

111987 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Well....
Getting this back on topic, I'd have to agree with some of the people
inherent telling Bioware to get over it. They haven't kept their
promises that they made when marketing ME1. ME2 was just GoW with a FEW dialogue choices that only alter the tone. It was very linear. Judging by the leaked script, ME3 is more linear than ME2, with a lot of scripted "over the top moments" as C Hudson put it.


-Polite

ME2
was very different from GoW. Come on, you don't really believe they
were all that similar do you, besides the fact that it is a TPS?

Not
to turn this into one of those worn out ME1 VS. ME2 debates, but
really, ME1 was just as linear as ME2, and there was just as little
impact of your choices (so far) as in ME2 (so far).

Mass Effect is not Skyrim, nor was it ever supposed to be.

Do you mean linear in terms of plot, or linear in terms of world?

Most
RPGs have linear plots: The Witcher, Gothic 2, Ultima 7, NWN 1 and 2,
Baldurs Gate 2. There is still room for player control in dialogue and
quest outcomes.

ME 1 had a very open world, so it was not linear in that sense.

Linear
in terms of plot and world and level design (if we're using the same
definitions). Sure you could choose whether you went to Therum, Feros,
or Noveria first, but that's really just the illusion of choice as
eventually you have to go to all and there is no difference what order
you choose. And the levels themselves were quite linear.

Port
Hanshan is really the only section of the game where mutliple options
exist; that was great. But it is the only instance in ME1 that I can think of.

Letting Fist go or killing him?

Ignoring, betraying or completing the quest of that female mobster?

Killing Wrex?

Helping Kirrahae?

UNC Hostage mission?

Bring Down the Sky?

[St. Eve]

I think Child Mangler is my new favourite user. He knows what he's talking about.

[Jaron Oberyn]

@Biotic Sage - shockingly I prefer the first two words of the genre when it comes to RPGs. That's Role Playing. We were told when me1 was marketed that we will get to be commander Shepard, and that it's the players personal unique story and universe. You wanna tell me how that's going with optishep leader of the autosheps doing his auto dialogue every 5 seconds? Once again, marketing lie. The only dialogue "choice" we have is whether or not to have Shepard be mean or nice to someone. Excuse me if I'm a little disappointed that I never got the series that was marketed to me back in '07 when I bought ME1.

-Polite

[Eustacia]

DoNotIngest wrote...

To be fair, Eust, it's been a while since we reached the "Girls With D!cks for ME3" phase.



And yet the night is still young.

Um, please do not shorten my name. Thank you.

[Quole]

Modifié par Quole, 27 novembre 2011 - 07:57 .

[111987]

Swampthing500 wrote...

Letting Fist go or killing him?

Ignoring, betraying or completing the quest of that female mobster?

Killing Wrex?

Helping Kirrahae?

UNC Hostage mission?

Bring Down the Sky?

How is any of that different than the sidequests/missions in ME2? Hell, in ME2 you can kill off your entire squad!

Save or destroy genophage data?
Sell Legion or Destroy or Rewrite Heretics?
Save or Destroy Collector Base?
Encourage Quarians to peace or war?
Get Tali exiled, hand over evidence, or clear her name without evidence?
Destroy capital city or industrial center in UNC: Javelin Missiles?

That's enough, I think.

[Child Mangler]

SHEPARD! IF I MUST DERAIL THIS DISCUSSION I WILL!

Modifié par Child Mangler, 27 novembre 2011 - 07:59 .

[Quole]

Too bad ME2 is completely pointless as far as the story goes.

[DoNotIngest]

Eustacia wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

To be fair, Eust, it's been a while since we reached the "Girls With D!cks for ME3" phase.



And yet the night is still young.

Um, please do not shorten my name. Thank you.

Wait, did I just make a dirty reference? Dammit, why do I not get this...

[Swampthing500]

Quole wrote...

Swamp dont even try to pretend any of those had ANY impact on the story. The story is the same no matter what and most choices in ME1 are only mentioned in ME2. Nothing else.

The majority of RPGs I have played have a pretty much unchangeable story:

Baldurs Gate: Kill Sarevok and Irenicus

The Witcher: Kill the time travelling magic dude

Ultima 7: Destroy the Black Gate

Fallout 1: Stop the master

Fallout 2: Stop the Enclave

Fallout 3: Stop the Enclave

NWN 2: Stop the King of Shadows

In many ways having a fixed story and heroic outcome is an accepted part of the genre. The choice comes from minor quests and dialogue outcomes. I find that to be a satisfactory compromise.

[Quole]

Swampthing500 wrote...

Quole wrote...

Swamp dont even try to pretend any of those had ANY impact on the story. The story is the same no matter what and most choices in ME1 are only mentioned in ME2. Nothing else.

The majority of RPGs I have played have a pretty much unchangeable story:

Baldurs Gate: Kill Sarevok and Irenicus

The Witcher: Kill the time travelling magic dude

Ultima 7: Destroy the Black Gate

Fallout 1: Stop the master

Fallout 2: Stop the Enclave

Fallout 3: Stop the Enclave

NWN 2: Stop the King of Shadows

In many ways having a fixed story and heroic outcome is an accepted part of the genre. The choice comes from minor quests and dialogue outcomes. I find that to be a satisfactory compromise.

FFS why did you have to quote that^ I deleted that for a reason. I misinterpreted what you said because I didnt read what you quoted. Why did you even quote that after I deleted my post/

Modifié par Quole, 27 novembre 2011 - 08:02 .

[Eustacia]

DoNotIngest wrote...

Eustacia wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

To be fair, Eust, it's been a while since we reached the "Girls With D!cks for ME3" phase.



And yet the night is still young.

Um, please do not shorten my name. Thank you.

Wait, did I just make a dirty reference? Dammit, why do I not get this...

Oh ho, I just got that too....


Creepy.

[Child Mangler]

Quole wrote...

Too bad ME2 is completely pointless as far as the story goes.

THAT IS NOT TRUE! MASS EFFECT 2 MADE SHEPARD A CYBORG! THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE HE MUST BE A CYBORG TO COMBINE ORGANICS AND SYTHETICS AT THE END OF MASS EFFECT 3! SEE? VERY STORY RELEVANT!

[Terror_K]

111987 wrote...

ME1 only allowed you to approach Port Hanshan in multiple ways. That's really all I can remember; everything else was fairly linear.

Peak 15 had a couple of routes too: quick to Benezia through the soldiers and defenses, or help Dr. Cohen, etc.. Virmire had several paths, including the option to aid Kirrahe's team. Feros had the option to help the colonists or not (most of which took you to a completely different set of areas to accomplish) and had the optional stop-off at Jeong and Dr. Baynham for the thorian gas. Several sidequests had more than two ways to resolve them, sometimes with multiple paragon and renegade ways for each (e.g. with Samesh Bhatia's wife, there are both paragon and renegade paths for both outcomes. Same with the Hanar preacher. Same with spying on Raphael Vargas on Noveria or not, etc.) All in all, I felt ME1 had far more versatility. ME2 tended to just give you a situation, run you through it the same way every time and throw a single paragon or renegade way of resolving it right at the end.

But I agree, ME2 could have done a better job of making choice matter, but I do understand that if every choice hugely altered the experience, making a cohesive trilogy would be impossible.

Not every choice has to pay off in a big way, but the main ones such as saving The Council or not, who survived Virmire, Wrex living or dying and your human representative choice should have (the latter of which has now been retconned by BioWare, btw). Instead ME2 was the equivalent of choosing to drop a nuclear bomb on a city, then going there a year later to discover all it did was make some people's clothes slightly dusty as opposed to... not dusty... at all.

[Child Mangler]

SPOILERS LOL

[Quole]

Like I said, I loved ME2... but the plot was RETARDED.

[Eustacia]

Quole wrote...

Like I said, I loved ME2... but the plot was RETARDED.

It was fun...gameplay wise.

[Child Mangler]

Quole wrote...

Like I said, I loved ME2... but the plot was RETARDED.

NO U LOL! MASS EFFECT 2 HAS THE BEST PLOT EVER! I MEAN YOU GO RECRUIT PEOPLE THAT YOU WILL USE FOR LIKE 2 MISSIONS AND THATS COOL! AND THEN YOU FIND OUT THAT PROTHEANS ARE COLLECTORS! THAT WAS A SHOCKING TWIST! NEVER SAW THAT COMMING! AND THEN YOU FIND OUT THAT HUMANS ARE MADE INTO A REAPER HOLY SH!T AMAZING WRITING RIGHT THERE! U JUST JELOUS CUS YOU CANT MAKE SUCH A GOOD STORY!

[DoNotIngest]

Now, Quole. The proper term is "mentally handicapped".

[DoNotIngest]

Child Mangler. Here is a story.



I walked to the store, and saw a Reaper. I slapped it with a part of my anatomy, and it left crying.



ME3 Canon. I'm the new DLC companion.

[MassStorm]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@Biotic Sage - shockingly I prefer the first two words of the genre when it comes to RPGs. That's Role Playing. We were told when me1 was marketed that we will get to be commander Shepard, and that it's the players personal unique story and universe. You wanna tell me how that's going with optishep leader of the autosheps doing his auto dialogue every 5 seconds? Once again, marketing lie. The only dialogue "choice" we have is whether or not to have Shepard be mean or nice to someone. Excuse me if I'm a little disappointed that I never got the series that was marketed to me back in '07 when I bought ME1.

-Polite

You know just yesterday i saw on youtube the old ME1 trailer at E3 back in the days and somehow i got the same impression you have described now. Something diverged from the original idea. Cannot tell what specifically (maybe the RPG elements) but still the impression remains. However we will see with ME3 i would like to be proven wrong.

[Child Mangler]

DoNotIngest wrote...

Child Mangler. Here is a story.



I walked to the store, and saw a Reaper. I slapped it with a part of my anatomy, and it left crying.



ME3 Canon. I'm the new DLC companion.

SOUNDS LEGIT BRO! THEY SHOULD HIRE YOU MAN!

[Terror_K]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Oh, yes... of course. I'm certainly going to LOVE watching the new Mass Effect film that'll just be like every other piece of action Hollywood dross these days, telling a story I've already seen by canonising Shepard and his choices, while Turians will probably have feathers and asari long purple hair because the director wants to change things up and it's nothing but a non-sensical, over-the-top action movie with explosion, awful dialogue and shaky camera work, etc.

Yep... being popular and shallow by selling out and going for mass appeal over actual quality and depth always makes for a far better series.

Popular does not always equal shallow.  Yes, it could turn into that, but let's hope it doesn't.  Lord of the Rings had mass appeal and the Fellowship is my favorite movie of all time.

LotR was great, yes. But based on a static book with a set canon, and not a dynamic video game that the creators specifically said didn't have a canon regarding Shepard because it was whatever you wanted it to be. They even created a bunch of supplementary content such as novels and comics that kept this in mind and were designed around it. Now they're throwing it all down the toilet just to let the dollars throw in as they sell out to create a shallow Hollywood blockbuster.

They're not making the movie for the real fans, because the fans have experienced this story already and would more likely prefer more supplementary content that adds to the existing mythos rather than rehashes something we've already experienced in a far more interactive and personal way. They're making it to appeal to the standard American moviegoing, pop-corn face-stuffing, action-loving moron. Again, it's more branching out to try and get new people in and them not seeming to care that they're alienating their existing fans who largely got into Mass Effect in the first place because it actually had some quality to it and avoided all this mainstream pandering BS that they're doing with it today. Mass Effect isn't going to be the Blade Runner, Star Wars or Aliens of this generation... it's going to be another Michael Bay's Transformers, Doom or G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra.