186 réponses à ce sujet

[Kable147]

 Hey first time posting, been playing mass effect thru again preparing for mass effect 3. One thing I did not change was starting a new romance in 2. I love the game because of how enovoled you get in it. I play it as if I'm the one making the decisions, I made ashley the romantic choice in game one because theyre both marines. Again something I didn't change when I played for a second time. When they met in mass effect 2 she turned her back on him and called him a traitor. Maybe this is me being in the military but that's a deal breaker for me. I get she's in shock after seeing him but come on you saved the galaxy together, Tali joined him without a second thought that's why she was my choice in 2. She would have been in 1 if given the choice.
So in my opinion he doesn't "cheat" on her the relationship was over after she called him a traitor.

[Chewin]

You seem to forget that Shepard is quite a derp too on Horizon. Can't simply explain anything to the VS.

[CptData]

First of all - you're right. Kind of. It's up to you if you consider it as "cheating" or not, because both arguments work.

Why is picking a new LI in ME2 "cheating"?
- Ashley confessed she had (has?) feelings for Shepard on Horizon but talks herself in rage. Shepard fuels that rage by trying to recruit her for his mission. (Stupid Shepard!)
- because Ashley tried to say "sorry" with that message. You can see it as attempt to save that relationship
- Shepard still has feelings for her and considers that relationship as "still in the air, although currently on halt". At least as long as the picture is not "face down" in the loft.

If you take these three points as facts, then a new LI means cheating. It even more means cheating if Liara is your old LI since she knew what happened to Shepard, she still has strong feelings for him, she also knows if Shepard started a new relationship with a different character.


Why is picking a new LI in ME2 NOT "cheating"?
- You can see Shepard's death as "break up by natural causes".
- You can see Horizon as break up because Ashley calls Shepard a "traitor"
- You can see the letter after Horizon as attempt to repair a friendship, not the relationship. However, since Ash picks the same poem she used before their night on the Normandy, that argument is not 100% valid.

So both interpretations work. If you say you're not cheating, then you aren't, if you say you are, then you are cheating.

I'm looking forward how Ashley sees it. If she calls you a cheater, then you'll know it.

Modifié par CptData, 28 novembre 2011 - 12:15 .

[Harmless Citizen]

I was unhappy with Horizon. Not because of the VS, but because of Shepard's herpderp dialogue options.

Paragon: I didn't want to open old wounds (lol wot)
Neutral: I couldn't.
Renegade: Dunno, never picked it.

The entire encounter I wanted to slap Ash's sh!t and yell, "I couldn't, you filthy trollop, I was deeeeeayyyyaaaad!!!" a la http://s3.amazonaws....?1262105519.jpg

...Or, you know, at least receive the option to explain that I had, in fact, tried to contact her as soon as possible, but was stonewalled at every turn. No e-mails for FemShep, of course.

I've never done his romance (...or any), but Kaidan's message sounded an awful lot like it was an attempt to establish that he and Shep were (still) friends, but resumed romance was a possibility, not a current reality.

[Harmless Citizen]

It really depends on how one plays Shepard. It has been only a week or two for him/her, so ostensibly feelings for the ME LI should be as strong as ever unless the verbal smack down was enough for Shep to go on the rebound.

[CptData]

Random Nobody wrote...

It really depends on how one plays Shepard. It has been only a week or two for him/her, so ostensibly feelings for the ME LI should be as strong as ever unless the verbal smack down was enough for Shep to go on the rebound.

Indeed.

We should ignore Horizon's bad writing. I simply think BW either cut a lot of content here or had no idea how to get rid of the VS in ME2: even without LotSB Liara gets treated far better than the VS. That also includes dialogue options.
So lets say Horizon happens and neither Shepard nor the VS were able to discuss things like they should have.

I consider Shepard's romance with Ashley on halt but not over yet. There's a lot of stuff to discuss, some things needs to be cleared up and maybe they can continue what they had before Shepard's death. Therefore I consider picking a new LI in ME2 as cheating. It depends on PoV of the player as I said earlier - others tend to see either Shepard's death as "break up", or the scene on Horizon. 
I also see the VS!LI in same context as Liara!LI. You can and do cheat on Liara by picking a new LI. She even adresses this if you do LotSB after SM. So I'd like to say you also cheat on the VS if you pick a new LI - at least that's my interpretation.

[Creedio]

Yeah it's not really cheating, but I guess it shows that you moved on and well they never said "it's over".
IMO: If you don't want to romance Ashley anymore and you think it was over, then there's nothing wrong with that. You didn't cheat and have nothing to explain, because for you it seemed that she moved on and so did you. BUT if you want to continue your romance with Ashley and still romanced someone else, you have to explain yourself to the one you "betrayed".

[Yezdigerd]

Really people aren't allowed to move on in the Mass effect universe? the guy/gal was dead, s/he should really get the option to reaffirm the relationship before something like that.
They had one night of monkey sex, no rings exchanged, nothing. How someone could call anything less then fidelity beyond death cheating is beyond me.
And if a friend of mine been treated as Shepard was treated on Horizon, I would say the VS had terminated the relationship. and that my friend could consider him/her self fortunate.

[jeweledleah]

/rant

1. Shepard IS a traitor. seeing how Shepard is working for the avowed enemy of the alliance and the council.
2. by your own admission, Tali would have been your first choice if available in ME1, so really, Horizon was just an excuse to feel better about moving on to her in ME2
3. no, technically it was not cheating in a true sense as for Ashley 2 years have passed and Horizon is set up in a way to be able to interpret it as a breakup if one so wishes. but apparently, /grumble its what bioware is calling it. not to mention - as stated above, its only been couple of weeks for Shepard, so their feelings are supposed to be a bit fresher then Ashley's.
4. Tali doesn't join Shepard immediately or without questions,its only when you meet her a second time, that you get to recruit her, after much time has passed. She had time to think about it. Tali is also not part of the military organization, her loyalty to the flotilla is purely personal.

I wish people would:
1. at least attempt to put themselves in Ashley's shoes and see how they would reacted after someone they thought was dead showed up 2 years later, perfectly alive, talking like nothing happened, personally confirming the rumors that they were alive and working for cerberus. the same organization that Ashley was sent to Horizon to INVESTIGATE IN RELATION TO COLONY KIDNAPPINGS. and lo and behold - colony gets kidnapped and oh look, Cerberus vessel is there.
2. stop romancing her just because their first choice is not available.
3. consider if this was their real life relationship, would they write off a lover after a single fight that was at least partly caused by someone else's manipulations. (TIM ADMITS setting up Horizon after you get back to the Normandy, he ADMITS spreading the rumors about Shepard for months, he proceeds to set Shepard up, again and again through the rest of the ME2)
4.  stoip saying it was one night of monkey sex.  it was a year's worth of building a relationship, because you start flirting pretty much as soon as you meet and continue through out all the events on ME1, that took about a year to conclude.  you, the player might think it was a one night of monkey sex, becasue it took you 20-30 hours to finish the game, but in game time=/=play time.  traveling between systems doesn't take couple of seconds. etc

/end rant

Modifié par jeweledleah, 28 novembre 2011 - 12:51 .

[CptData]

No need to rant, jeweledleah - after all, you're telling the truth ^^


Oh and I tried to get Ashley's PoV. It's not that difficult, you need to try, and maybe you'll find out why Ash lashes against Shepard. Especially AFTER Shepard pulls the "good ol' times" recruiting line. Seriously, Shepard, that was plain stupid. Too bad there's no better line, no better option - all of them are "crap".

So I think Ashley has a right to be upset. I can't imagine what emotional chaos she's experiencing while watching into Shepard's face. After all, her lover returned from the dead. He's working for Cerberus, a known extremist group. He doesn't explain why he's doing so. He doesn't explain why he never tried to call her (or his mom!!!). He doesn't even try to explain his current job. And he tries to recruit Ashley (suggesting betraying the Alliance!) ... sorry ... I fully can understand Ashley. That's a bit much...


Oh, one last thing: dunno if ME took a year, but it took several months. Still - even six months of build up is pretty much a long time. Ashley / Kaidan and Liara are not meant to be ONS. All three are the "big deal".

Modifié par CptData, 28 novembre 2011 - 12:56 .

[Zorziban the Great]

No, it wouldn't be considered cheating considering that you died and all. However, I never romanced anyone in mass effect 1 simply because noone was interesting enough. Although, I did find Ashley to be an interesting character, I couldn't see my shep with her.

[Skullheart]

I think that the Horizon encounter was mean to make us hate the VS (or to plant the seed of distrust). From allthe rencounters with past character, VS was the worse writed.

And, other reason for not cheating:
- The VS moved on.
- Shepard start a new relation after Horizon, not before.

And Liara is a special case (she isn't the same persona in ME1 and ME2), but she knew that Shepard would back and never contacted him/her. It can be justified by feeling guilty, but she is more than happy to help Shepard in Illium and not feeling guilty.

[CptData]

Skullheart wrote...

I think that the Horizon encounter was mean to make us hate the VS (or to plant the seed of distrust). From allthe rencounters with past character, VS was the worse writed.

And, other reason for not cheating:
- The VS moved on.
- Shepard start a new relation after Horizon, not before.

And Liara is a special case (she isn't the same persona in ME1 and ME2), but she knew that Shepard would back and never contacted him/her. It can be justified by feeling guilty, but she is more than happy to help Shepard in Illium and not feeling guilty.

Dunno if the VS moved on. At least Ashley did -not- fully move on. She mourned over a year over Shepards death and she also showed a lot of emotions you wouldn't expect from someone who "moved on". She's clearly torn apart by her feelings for Shepard and the feeling of being betrayed by Shepard. She doesn't know that he's back for not more than two or three weeks while she had to live two full years.

Lets say it's a real mess. That, plus the bad writing of Shepard's response options.

[AlexMBrennan]

Since Shepard is largely incapable of voicing their thoughts this is open to personal interpretation unless they were to re-unite with Liara in LotSB, and start a ME2 romance afterwards.

However, given that only a few weeks will have passed for Shepard, going with a new ME2 LI, whilst perhaps not technically cheating, is indicative of a not particularly committed relationship.

[jeweledleah]

@ Cpt - you may be right and ME1 takes several months rather then a whole year, (Bioware's timelines can be.. strange sometimes, I could have sworn I read somewhere that ME1 lasted a year), but there was still plenty of buildup for a relationship. its not exactly a typical one night stand. by that definition - ME2 relationships are even more of a one night stand (which they aren't)

VS has tried to move on, and good for them, however, they didn't quite manage yet. still - that is a valid point for "not cheating" camp.

I will not go into the leak here, but bioware's promise of "it will all be explained in ME3" better not be as much of an empty promise as I'm afraid it might turn out to be. this incidentally is based on how mum they are being about the whole situation - precedent of prior releases shows that whenever they make placating noises like that, it rarely bodes well.

[K_Tabris]

Skullheart wrote...

I think that the Horizon encounter was mean to make us hate the VS (or to plant the seed of distrust). From allthe rencounters with past character, VS was the worse writed.

I disagree.  Ashley was one of the best written characters of the series.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Since Shepard is largely incapable of voicing their thoughts this is open to personal interpretation unless they were to re-unite with Liara in LotSB, and start a ME2 romance afterwards.

However, given that only a few weeks will have passed for Shepard, going with a new ME2 LI, whilst perhaps not technically cheating, is indicative of a not particularly committed relationship.

Didn't even leave a letter with Anderson either.

For shame.

[jeweledleah]

@ Pennyball - how about:

"I'm so glad I got there before they could take you! oh by the way i saw Anderson on a citadel and hold on a sec, let me get a datapad - here's what information I have on collectors and cerberus, including the countermeasure against that paralysis thing they do."

for starters

[CptData]

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Cpt - you may be right and ME1 takes several months rather then a whole year, (Bioware's timelines can be.. strange sometimes, I could have sworn I read somewhere that ME1 lasted a year), but there was still plenty of buildup for a relationship. its not exactly a typical one night stand. by that definition - ME2 relationships are even more of a one night stand (which they aren't)

Indeed. ONS usually means no romantic feelings involved. Just "go to a bar, pay some drinks for a random girl, ask her for more, get laid and go home before dawn." Something like this, tried this a couple of times, was not that satisfying. The "big deal" (= love) is more entertaining and results in far better sex. Uhh ... nevermind


Now I can say Liara, Ashley and Kaidan are meant to be the "big deals" in the entire series. Don't kill me now, ME2-cast lovers - I enjoy ME2 too! However, ME1!LI got far more development and you can see a real build up while some of the ME2!LI came out of nowhere. The only build-up you can see there is "do LM - do the post LM talk - get in her pants talk". That's far shorter than the full developed relationships in ME1.

Also since, with exception of Team Dextro, any other characters of ME2 get sidelined and ME1!LI will return, I believe ME1!LI were or are destined to become the "big deals". I also believe BW originally intented to not bother with ME2!LI that much in ME3, but since the fans demanded more, BW has (and most likely will) add full romantic story arcs to ME2!cast as well. 

In short: old BW development says ME2!cast is more ONS-like, new development promotes all of these LI to "big deals" as well.

Hope I explained it right

VS has tried to move on, and good for them, however, they didn't quite manage yet. still - that is a valid point for "not cheating" camp.

Yes and no. It's still up to the player to decide if s/he is cheating on the VS / Liara or not. I think that's one of the better ideas of BW: it's all in the players mind. If you say you want to stay loyal to the VS / Liara and suddenly start a LI in ME2, you're cheating. If you say you don't care about the VS / Liara anymore, then you're not cheating because you can consider Shepard's death / Horizon as break up.

I will not go into the leak here, but bioware's promise of "it will all be explained in ME3" better not be as much of an empty promise as I'm afraid it might turn out to be. this incidentally is based on how mum they are being about the whole situation - precedent of prior releases shows that whenever they make placating noises like that, it rarely bodes well.

Lets hope we see some kind of explanation. I will continue Ashley!LI regardless if there's an explanation, but it won't be that satisfying then it were if there's such talk.

[CptBomBom00]

Well this is why my Shepard stayed loyal to Liara.
There was a moment when I talked to much with Miranda by accident,t and I almost cheat on Liara but I didn't, cause I want to see how that relationship will look like in ME3.

[Harmless Citizen]

Just reading that first paragraph, Cpt, all I have to say is...


prepare your anus.