186 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

Shep's derpy Horizon responses make no sense whatsoever because of another aspect. For Shep, it was mentally only what, few weeks since he last saw VS/been with VS? He was in coma/outta it for two years. He should be all still in love with VS, it hasn't been "a long time" for him, it's not like he felt these 2 years pass when Cerberus was rebuilding him.

[goofyomnivore]

I don't think it is cheating. Shepard's circumstances are extraordinary. Although I think "cheating" is up to player interpretation. Liara to me didn't see it as cheating in LotSB. She does get a jab in, but she somewhat understands the context of Shepard's situation. Ashley and Kaidan aren't given that luxury.

[Gespenst]

Random Nobody wrote...

Neutral: I couldn't.

I couldn't. I was dead.

CptData wrote...

We should ignore Horizon's bad writing. I simply think BW either cut a lot of content here or had no idea how to get rid of the VS in ME2: even without LotSB Liara gets treated far better than the VS. That also includes dialogue options.
So lets say Horizon happens and neither Shepard nor the VS were able to discuss things like they should have.

What they really should have done was make Arrival a two-character infiltration mission with the VS.

jeweledleah wrote...

1. at least attempt to put themselves in Ashley's shoes and see how they would reacted after someone they thought was dead showed up 2 years later, perfectly alive, talking like nothing happened, personally confirming the rumors that they were alive and working for cerberus. the same organization that Ashley was sent to Horizon to INVESTIGATE IN RELATION TO COLONY KIDNAPPINGS. and lo and behold - colony gets kidnapped and oh look, Cerberus vessel is there.

Yes, a Cerberus vessel is there helping the Collectors kidnap the colonists OH WAIT.

Modifié par Gespenst, 28 novembre 2011 - 02:10 .

[CptData]

strive wrote...

I don't think it is cheating. Shepard's circumstances are extraordinary. Although I think "cheating" is up to player interpretation. Liara to me didn't see it as cheating in LotSB. She does get a jab in, but she somewhat understands the context of Shepard's situation. Ashley and Kaidan aren't given that luxury.

About Liara: either that what you said OR Asari have a different understanding of relationships. Maybe they have a tendency to have more "open" relationships, maybe polygamy isn't unusual in the Asari society. We don't know, it never got explained any further.

So I think Liara feels far less offended by the thought reborn!Shepard moved on. The VS however, given the fact s/he is a human, WILL feel betrayed in case s/he considers the relationship as "still alive". We're going to see that in ME3.

Gespenst wrote...
What they really should have done was make Arrival a two-character infiltration mission with the VS.

This. ... is an option I never had in my mind. But since you mentioned it, I support VS!Arrival!

Modifié par CptData, 28 novembre 2011 - 02:11 .

[Kable147]

I still don't understand how some are saying she was betrayed by shepard he was after all dead.
She gives him grief about not trying to contact for 2 years, it's like heloooo I was dead. Still think its harsh to call Shepard a traitor Cerberus is a means to an end Tali can over look it and she's an alien which Cerberus hates. This is all good stuff got to love game that gets you so involved it it's story that makes more than just a game.

[DonutsDealer]

Well, Ash was a stubborn in Horizon. Shepard says he was dead for 2 years. He even says he doesn't answer to Cerberus, that they only have a common goal but still she refuses to listen. But for having a good Ash romance in ME3 is to resolve the Horizon issue.

[jeweledleah]

Kable147 wrote...

I still don't understand how some are saying she was betrayed by shepard he was after all dead.
She gives him grief about not trying to contact for 2 years, it's like heloooo I was dead. Still think its harsh to call Shepard a traitor Cerberus is a means to an end Tali can over look it and she's an alien which Cerberus hates. This is all good stuff got to love game that gets you so involved it it's story that makes more than just a game.

again - try to put yourself into her shows and think from a perspective of what SHE knows.

Cerberus is an enemy of the council and the alliance.  Ashley works for council and the alliance.  generaly people who work for the enemy?  are traitors.  there's even a law for that.
Shepard was dead yes.  Shepard didn't spend those 2 years dealing with grief, Shepard was in a dreamless state untill waking up to Miranda and Wilson.  and here Shepard is, showing up like nothing happened?  well, it wasn't nothing for Ashley and as rough as it is to deal with your own ressurection, you cannot just dismiss the fact that there's a person who spend 2 years, awake, grieving and now they were LED TO BELEIVE that Shepard may have faked their own death.  if someone told you that they were ressurected, would you honestly beleive them, just like that?  especialy when there is evidence pointing that they are lying?  apparently Shepard had enough time to find those folks that are standing behind him/her.  but they didn't have time to contact their lover?  its even worse if you show up with Garrus, so you had time to find Garrus (who dropped out of site, no less)  but not your lover and/or fellow soldier?  seriously?

this might not technicaly be cheating and Horizon is badly written and should have gone more in depth into exactly what sort of rumors TIM was spreading as well as giving Shepard and Ashley more time to talk (and I still don't see her dropping everything and just going with Shepard. Even precious Tali didn't, not right away and her comitments weren't military binding).  but to just dismiss Ashley's side completely?

edited to add - Lira was alway more open to well open relationships. even in ME1.  and she still gets angry about ME2 LI.  not to mention - she was the one who gave Shepard to Cerberus i na first place, of COURSE she'll beelive Shepard.  becasue she knows exactly what's going on.  and you know, she could have at least tried to share that information with VS and Anderson.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 28 novembre 2011 - 02:40 .

[Kable147]

Well it's going to be interesting to see how it all unfolds in 3 I can't wait.

[shepskisaac]

Kable147 wrote...

She gives him grief about not trying to contact for 2 years, it's like heloooo I was dead.

Yeah, but after Shep wakes up and learns he was out for 2 years what's the first thing he does? Call his love he remembers like it was yesterday? Nope. It not like there's no telephone on the Normandy, or email... Instead VS is hearing rumors about Shep appearing in various places in the Galaxy for weeks until Horizon. Anderson didn't bother putting Shep & VS on the line either.

[Harmless Citizen]

There's another (tangentially related) thing. Why can everyone, her mother, and her grandpappy contact Shepard via e-mail? The spam (even though it was funny) was especially nonsensical. Secure line lol wut.

[Kable147]

And again Tali still joined him they weren't even together how do you love someone save the universe together but still turn your back on him. I get it, it was a shock but he's back and it seems that everyone turned their back on him he didn't ask cerberus to reserect him but they seem to be the only ones that still believe his story of the reapers, even after he proved they exist and saved everyone from them. Hell even Anderson won't give him simple info on where Ashley is.
Try waking up after being away for two years and almost everyone you risked your life with turns their back on you and won't trust you anymore.

[Kable147]

He asked about her on the citadel but Anderson won't give him a way to contact her

[CptData]

IsaacShep wrote...

Kable147 wrote...

She gives him grief about not trying to contact for 2 years, it's like heloooo I was dead.

Yeah, but after Shep wakes up and learns he was out for 2 years what's the first thing he does? Call his love he remembers like it was yesterday? Nope. It not like there's no telephone on the Normandy, or email... Instead VS is hearing rumors about Shep appearing in various places in the Galaxy for weeks until Horizon. Anderson didn't bother putting Shep & VS on the line either.

Another thing most guys don't think of: the new Normandy is one huge bug. Whatever Shep does, TIM knows. If Shepard takes a leak, TIM will have a log about that. If Shepard talks to Miranda, she doesn't need to send a report - TIM knows already. 
Why do guys think Shepard can send and receive mails freely? I bet Kelly is reading those mails too, and, of course, she's there for a purpose. Most likely she'll forward mails to TIM or is censoring Shepard's mails. Maybe she's even blocking stuff. Therefore even IF Shepard wrote a message to Ashley, Kaidan, Anderson, his/her mother, the Council, you name it, it's most likely Kelly read it first and blocked / censored it.

So I believe Shepard TRIED to contact his old friends, comrades and of course, his/her lover. Maybe s/he even tried to explain. Too bad s/he never learned Cerberus is blocking / censoring any outgoing messages ...

And why did Shepard never try to contact his/her friends via Anderson? Hmmm ... maybe because he thought his/her mails were sent. As long as s/he doesn't believe anything different, s/he'll asume everything is alright. Too bad trusting in Cerberus is not a good idea ...

[Kable147]

The spam stuff was hilarious especially the penis enlargement spam LOL don't lose your mate to a well hung Krogan!!!! Too funny

[goofyomnivore]

The VS however, given the fact s/he is a human, WILL feel betrayed in case s/he considers the relationship as "still alive". We're going to see that in ME3.

Still alive from what? A hug and a friendly email isn't exactly a proper mending to the relationship. Especially if you consider the trauma on both sides. I didn't get any hints that the VS considered the relationship functional in its current state and they shouldn't. However Horizon outside of Act 3 in DA:2 is my worst experience with BioWare writing.

[shepskisaac]

Random Nobody wrote...

There's another (tangentially related) thing. Why can everyone, her mother, and her grandpappy contact Shepard via e-mail? The spam (even though it was funny) was especially nonsensical. Secure line lol wut.

Seriously. I get they needed VS & Shep to have an argument so VS wouldn't join the mission and thus have guaranteed survival for ME3, but the way it was done was nonsensical. 200 years into the future and they can't contact each other? Especially Shepard (since VS may not be sure if Shep's really alive)? This could only work if the story took place in 1328, not 22nd century. It was a mess. Why couldn't they just have the VS get abducted by the Colonists and be injured at the end when you rescue them so they can't join ME2 squad at any point thus have guaranteed survival? Would've been so much easier and remove all the "you forgot how to use the phone/email?" nonsense

CptData wrote...

So I believe Shepard TRIED to contact hisold friends, comrades and of course, his/her lover. Maybe s/he even tried to explain. Too bad s/he never learned Cerberus is blocking / censoring any outgoing messages...

That's just too much headcanon and filling plot holes yourself. No story should require that to make sense. If that was the case, there should've been a scene in which Shep sends emails/tries to contact his friends and either discovers he can't or it is brought up later that his emails never arrived. Without anything like that, the canon version is basically Shep (thus the players) being a d*ck and not caring for his old friends and then wondering why these friends are mad.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 28 novembre 2011 - 02:59 .

[Harmless Citizen]

Anderson is Alliance brass (and moreover, a Councillor). Shepard apparates after two years, wearing Cerberus clothes, in a Cerberus ship spammed up and down with the Cerberus logo. Even if either the VS or Anderson could take it on good faith that Shep isn't being mind controlled, s/he technically isn't Alliance at that point, and non-military personnel don't get military info - especially when they're in enemy uniforms.

Them's the breaks.

[CptData]

strive wrote...

The VS however, given the fact s/he is a human, WILL feel betrayed in case s/he considers the relationship as "still alive". We're going to see that in ME3.

Still alive from what? A hug and a friendly email isn't exactly a proper mending to the relationship. Especially if you consider the trauma on both sides. I didn't get any hints that the VS considered the relationship functional in its current state and they shouldn't. However Horizon outside of Act 3 in DA:2 is my worst experience with BioWare writing.

You should read the poem in Ashley's message. She uses the very same she used in "that night" with Shepard. It's a hint, it's subtle. There's no big "I love you" line. Because it doesn't work like that. And as I said before, it's up to the player to decide if that relationship still exists or not. BW kept it open for both interpretations.

So to clear things up: it is the player who decides if going for another relationship in ME2 is cheating on Ashley / Kaidan / Liara because it depends on the interpretation if there's still a romantic connection between ME1!LI and Shepard.

In my case I consider Ashley!LI as active. You don't need to concur, you can say "it's over" and go for a new LI.

[Harmless Citizen]

Shepard's e-mail: xX_r34p3rsl4y0r_Xx

[Kable147]

CPT Data hits the nail on the head it's up to the player to decide and that's what makes the game great I posted this tread to get a feel on what other players thought and heard some great stuff on all aspects thanks all.

[CptData]

IsaacShep wrote...

CptData wrote...

So I believe Shepard TRIED to contact hisold friends, comrades and of course, his/her lover. Maybe s/he even tried to explain. Too bad s/he never learned Cerberus is blocking / censoring any outgoing messages...

That's just too much headcanon and filling plot holes yourself. No story should require that to make sense. If that was the case, there should've been a scene in which Shep sends emails/tries to contact his friends and either discovers he can't or it is brought up later that his emails never arrived. Without anything like that, the canon version is basically Shep (thus the players) being a d*ck and not caring for his old friends and then wondering why these friends are mad.

Trufax - it is "headcanon". I pretend to use that explanation so some of the plot holes vanish. It does work for me, it makes sense, but it's not "BW canon" and you don't need to see it the same way. It's just my interpretation.

And I concur: I'd loved to see how Shepard tries to call his/her mom, Anderson, VS, Liara etc ... but that scene is missing. Heck with it, BW spent far too much time and money to create redundant characters and a half-baked story than dealing with moon-sized plot holes. Shepard not calling any of his old friends is stupid, doesn't make much sense and leads to the idea that either Shepard doesn't care about his/her past OR is social awkward OR believes they need to message him/her first.

[goofyomnivore]

So to clear things up: it is the player who decides if going for another relationship in ME2 is cheating on Ashley / Kaidan / Liara because it depends on the interpretation if there's still a romantic connection between ME1!LI and Shepard.

I agree fully..

Although I think "cheating" is up to player interpretation

..but the way you explained your point in the piece I responded to implied to me that you believed that universal. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

[CptData]

^ that's okay. Everything regarding Horizon, VS, missing messages etc is up to player's interpretation. That's not good since everyone has his/her own ideas, plot holes should have been filled by BW, but yes, that's the current situation. It won't change till ME3.

[shepskisaac]

CptData wrote...

Trufax - it is "headcanon". I pretend to use that explanation so some of the plot holes vanish. It does work for me, it makes sense, but it's not "BW canon" and you don't need to see it the same way. It's just my interpretation.

I understand but to me, headcanon ain't good for plot holes. It's good for extra stuff, like I can headcanon my Shep & Legion played some co-op games together while bored on the Normandy during FTL flights even though we never saw that.

[Kable147]

Hey random coming from a military point of view you trust the person not the agency, government will always screw you the people you risk your life with/for rarely will.